Zero points food

"Geoff" wrote in message ...
"Shaun Conn" wrote in message
...
Hi

Krys - they're sold by most of the UK big 3, just well hidden! There are
a
couple of brands though - I like the Calypso ones (usually to be found in
3
flavours - strawberry, orange and blackberry but they also have a rarer,
tropical flavour) as well as the sun lollies (usually I can only find cola
or strawberry, but they also have blackberry, orange and the most
addictive,
wonderful grape flavour).

In Tesco's they're usually either above the freezer cabinets (in unfrozen
form!), or on one of the aisle ends. Sainsbury's and Safeways usually
have
them hidden on one of the bottom shelves.

I think I probably eat 2 a day at least, and have been known to eat 8 or
more at a sitting. They're only 62ml (or 65ml for the sun lolly), or so I
keep telling myself.

www.sunlolly.co.uk and www.calypso.co.uk for sad nerdy facts - and if you
can't find any, calypso have a UK online delivery service - £1.29 for 10.


Oh I find the Sun Lollies totally different from the other types. The ice
crunches up a lot finer and they are nicer.

Geoff.


Hi

I thought that too until I discovered the calypso grape one.
Fabulous. And smooth like a cola sun lolly...

Mmmm grape...

Shaun

On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:31:20 GMT, "Anny Middon"
wrote:

Or lightly cook some zucchini (help needed here -- I can't
remember what Right Pondians call zucchini) and douse it with low-fat
marinara sauce.

Courgettes. I love the term Right Pondians Very Jonathan Swift!

Ray


--
rmnsuk
273/193/182

On Tue, 25 May 2004 14:03:58 GMT, "Geoff"
wrote:

Hi everyone,

I don't belong to Weight Watchers but my Mother does so I've got a lot of
information from her.

Geoff,

I missed this thread while on holiday but I've just read most of it.

I started at about 20 stone and 6'2". Like you I hate feeding the diet
industry, so I refuse to spend money on WW. I do however follow the
spirit of what they say 'cos it makes a lot of sense to me.

After reading lots on the web, and reading here for a while I found my
base metabolic rate from http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Beginning.html
subtracted 500 and came up with 2000 calories a day. You may find that
depending on your weight your BMR is a bit more or a bit less.

I found that about 2000 calories a day with some exercise will make me
lose about 1-2 pounds a week (2 pounds at first and now down to 1
pound). www.fitday.com is a great place to track calories, without
spending a huge amount of time on it. I have 18 months of food/weight
history, excluding holidays.

In addition to eating 2000 calories I also have a good vitamin
supplement and a calcium/vitamin d supplement (tescos).

Exercise is not essential, but it'll help loads with getting fit.
Getting fit is a good idea but not entirely compatible with losing
weight. I should really do 30' of cardio 3 times a week. But I lothe
cardio so I lift weights instead. 45-60' 3 times a week. I's say that
it was pretty much essential that you find some kind of exercise you
like or at least can tolerate.

Finally food. There are basically two ways you can go forward IMO

1. go high protein, low carb. I suggest this since you apparently are
very finicky with what you eat. You may find this acceptable. Try it
and see. Any Atkins book is worth a read. If you go this route you
must still track calories, but it's not quite so essential 'cos eating
lots of protein will limit your appetite. It's not an easy option.

2. You're not going to like this. BUTCH UP!!
Losing weight isn't an easy ride. Who said that you can only eat what
you like. That kind of thinking is what got you where you are now. If
I ate only what I liked my diet would be chocolate and cheesecake, and
I would have a huge appetite.

Eat some vegatables/fruit. Try different ones. Tesco has a huge range
of vegatables and you should try a new one every week till you get
half a dozen you can tolerate. Puree them if necessary. Have you tried
yams? Squash? Brocolli? Beans of all sorts? Mushrooms?
If you don't like them cooked - try them raw. They just taste
different not nasty. I can assure you that if you persist you WILL get
to like them. Apparently if you can get a kid to eat a vegatable 6
times, the kid will get a taste for it.

Basically I don't believe that you will be sick after eating veges. I
am willing to bet that you won't be, even if you think you will. As
someone else said, not liking food is a learned response and can be
overcome quite easily.

You could continue to eat exactly what you eat now but it will be a
lot more difficult 'cos what you eat now is high in calories per
portion. You can only eat small portions if you want to lose weight.

Some things that might help
1. for breakfast try slimfast and protein powder with a cup of milk,
or a banana with protein powder and milk. A handblender is a good idea
to get it properly drinkable. It sounds and tastes gross (to me), but
it will get you through to lunch without feeling hungry. It's cheap,
and 350 calories. A soup at lunch, and a simple evening meal. There
should be enough over to have an occasional treat too.
2. make sure you get 1gm protein/pound bodyweight. Good forms of
protein are skinless chicken/turkey, tuna, Quorn, lean beef etc. But
you know all that already
3. Cauliflower and broccoli and mushrooms are great fillers. They will
bulk out a meal for very few calories.
4. Have you tried psycholtherapy? I'm not being mean. It's possible if
you feel physically sick at the sight of peas/beans etc that you have
a phobia. Phobias are usually fairly easy to deal with. Talk with your
doctor about this. You might be surprised at what can be done. You may
ven be able to read enough to get over the phobia yourself.
5. drink lots of fluid preferrably water, but also "diet" drinks if
necessary..

Most successful people on this list are trying to find ways to get
round the problems of dietting. It seems to me that you are playing a
game with us. The more suggestions we come up with the better answer
you have why it isn't applicable to you.

If you want to lose weight badly enough you will find a way to do so.
If you can't lose weight it's because you don't want to for some
reason, NOT because you can't or don't know how.

You will get lots of help here but the first place you must look for
help is yourself. Only you can decide to get round the obstacles life
has put in your path.

And one other thing. I am not special. If I can get from 20 stone to
14 so can you. The other Ray Miller is an even better example. He's
lost more than I weigh!! You can do it but in the final analysis ONLY
you can do it.

Good luck

Ray


--
rmnsuk
273/193/182

That's an excellent start.

The more I read this thread the more I realise that you CAN do the WW
program without the veggies. Or at least you can at your weight. I think the
hard part is going to be when you get down to 250-300 range where your
points are around 30 points. This will be when you will want to start
looking at finding 0 point foods to keep you satisfied. According to the US
program anyone over 350 pounds starts with 34 points per day plus the 35
flex points for the week. I'm not sure how that translates in the UK. If you
can't find 0 point foods then aim for finding the 1 point foods like most
fruits to keep you satisfied. Good luck.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
"Miss Violette" wrote in message
...
and if you can eat bananas and grapes, the suggestion is five fruits and
vegetables a day, so just do the ones you like and worry about new ones
later, Lee


Yep that's what I'm going to do. Soon I'll go shopping and will get some
fruit that I like (apples, bananas and grapes) and do various things with
them that's been suggested in this thread.

Geoff.

For many, myself included, it is easier to count to 25 than it is to count
to 1200 each day. Just makes it easier to follow. Still the same concept.
Eat less food and exercise more to lose weight.

"Joyce" wrote in message
...
Very well said, Su. I think there have been many people in this forum who
have
achieved weight loss by picking apart various programs and using the parts
that
work best for THEM, in a matter that works best for them. I view the
*points*
portion of the ww program as only a simplified method of counting
calories. If
this is an easier method for someone to use, than adding each individual
calorie -
by all means USE IT! Most of us here have who do follow the ww program,
have
been the first to say that many things will not work for everyone. Take
what you
find that works for you and run with it. Weightloss methods vary for each
individual, for different lifestyles. Nothing is really right or wrong
(as far as
I'm concerned anyway).

Joyce

On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:19:00 +0100, "Su"

wrote:

I don't mean to stick me beak in here... well actually I do.. It's just
that
Geoff has made it clear that he's not on the weight watcher's program -
He's
using their point system as a means of controlling calories and
exercise --
And it really is a great simple and convenient system. And he says maybe
in
the future he'll try vegetables and extend that side of his eating. He's
taken this points system and created his own diet / losing weight
program --
and that's great. It's a lot easier than counting calories all the time -
it
gives a little more freedom, and is working for him right now.

It seems as though you're shunning him because he isn't properly in the
weight watchers club. We should all be supportive, after all we all know
how
hard this is.

Su




"Anny Middon" wrote in message
gy.com...
"Geoff" wrote in message
...
"Anny Middon" wrote in message
y.com...
I've given some thought to this, Geoff, and I now believe that
perhaps
Weight Watchers isn't the right diet for you. It's the right plan
for
those
of us here, but I firmly beleive there is no plan that's right for
everyone.
And there are three strikes against it for you:

1. You don't want to go to meetings.

What have meetings got to do with the points method though? I'm not
with
WW,
I'm using their points method because having a target to work towards
is
a
good idea.

Go to www.weigh****chers.com, and you'll see prominently displayed
"Meetings
are our best way to lose weight." WW is not a diet, it's a program --
and
part of the program is the meetings. As I've said before I don't go to
meetings, but I'm very aware that I'm not truly following the WW
program
even if I am scrupulous about the rest of it.

But you're also not really following the point system. You've admitted
that
you don't know how many points omeone at your weight is supposed to
eat,
and
it's pretty certain that the number you've targetted for yourself is
probably not the number the WW system dictates. You also don't seem to
be
following the two dairy servings, five vegetable/fruit servings per day
part
of the program either.

What you're left with is basically a calorie counting program, using WW
points as a proxy for calories. There's nothing wrong with that, but
you
can't really call it Weight Watchers.

2. You're not satisfied with the amount of food you can eat for
your
point
target.

Of course I'm not satisfied-Who is? If I was satisfied with the
amount
of
food, I wouldn't be fat in the first place.

I am satisfied with the amount of food I'm eating, and have been since
my
first day on the program about six weeks ago. Like you, I have a
significant amount of weight to lose. From time to time I get a bout
of
the
"hungries" but then I either eat some zero-point veggies (a handful of
raw
baby carrots usually) or use some of my FlexPoints for some microwave
popcorn (the 94% fat-free variety).

3. You're unwilling or unable to eat nearly all vegetables and
fruits.

I can and do eat some fruits but I do not like vegetables and I can't
help
that.

Anny, I'm doing the best I can and this is the only way I've found
that
gives me any hope at all. Then I read someone tell me that it isn't
the
right diet for me and it makes me feel like crying, it really does.
I've
just come back from my daily walk which leaves me in one hell of a
state
that most people here will never comprehend, and I read a post
telling
me
that I'm not doing the right thing. I am in a real state with my
weight
and
finally had the guts to try something that's really hard for me, and
I
AM
managing, so why are people trying to put me off? You'll probably say
that
you aren't trying to put me off, but it really does come across that
way.

This is what I don't understand, Geoff -- there are a lot of diet
programs
out there, many of which work. Why is the Weight Watchers point system
any
different to you than counting calories? Go to alt.support.diet and
you'll
find a lot of people who are losing weight by counting calories.


This one is a double-whammy since it means that you can't make your
food
intake more satisfying by eating zero-point veggies, and you can't
regularly
meet the goal of 5 servings of fruit and vegetables per day.

I didn't know there was such a goal to be honest. I can't do anything
about
that anyway.

As an aside I'll ask: Have you considered doing Atkins or another
low-carb
approach?

I've heard too many bad things about that. It's also too restrictive.

My main advice to you though is this: You've said that you're
willing
to
spend some money if necessary. In that case, I think you should
consult
with a professional dietician to get a diet plan that's right for
you.

What would a dietition tell me to do? He/she would list a load of
things
to
eat, which would include 90% of things that I do not like. I don't
want
or
need to be patronised by a dietition telling me I need to lose
weight,
to
eat vegetables, to get exercise. I am very well aware of all that and
I'm
just doing my best with these points.

A professional dietician will go over lists of foods with you and
determine
which ones you like, which you're not crazy about but will eat, and
which
ones you despise. Based on your current weight and activity level, the
dietician will devise a program customized to your needs and
preferences
and
designed to provide you with a diet that meets your nutritional needs.
Often times these are composed of lists of foods that fit certain
criteria
and your program will allow you to pick two from group A, one from
group B
and two from Group C for instance for a meal.

You will probably be required to write down everything you eat, a step
that
Weight Watchers highly recommends and most successful dieters do
anyway,
at
least in the first several months. The dietician will go over your
food
journal and identify any nutritional inadequacies and make adjustments
to
your program as needed. From time to time, the dietician will review
your
program and reduce the number of servings in certain food groups to
assure
that you continue to lose weight slowly and steadily, the healthy way
to
lose.

A professional dietician will not be condescending or patronising -- he
or
she makes a living counselling people like us.

Periodic revisits with the dietician will help you keep on track
and
allow
for adjustment to your diet as needed.

You make it sound so simple.

What do you find so complicated about the Weight Watchers point system?
The
truth is that losing weight is both simple (eat fewer calories than you
expend) and very difficult to do.

If you don't want to go to a dietician, then I highly recommend you use
Fitday to track your eating and activity levels. I use the
downloadable
version, for which I paid $20 US, but most use the online
(www.fitday.com)
version. I assume they're pretty much the same.

Input your current weight. And if your scale doesn't go that high, buy
another scale -- no, you don't need an expensive one that weighs larger
amounts, just an additional scale. Put a board across the two scales
and
get the weight of the board by adding the amount shown on both scales.
Now
step on the board and get the weight shown on each scale. Add the two
weights, subtract the weight of the board and bingo! you have your
current
weight within a pound or two. (I got this trick from alt.support.diet,
where it recently came up.)

Input your current activity level. If it's like mine, it's pretty
sedentary. Fitday will tell you how many calories you're eating per
day
to
maintain your current weight. Now subtract 500 or 1000 from that
number
to
get a target calorie level -- this will allow you to lose a safe 1 to 2
pounds per week. (Weight Watchers does this with points, but it's
really
the
same thing.)

Use Fitday's nutritional analysis to see how you're doing in terms of
eating
enough vitamins and minerals. Tweak your diet as appropriate to assure
you're eating healthily. (This is what that dietician would do for
you.
It's also what Weight Watchers does with the five veggies/fruits per
day
and
two or three dairy servings -- I find if I've had my three or four
veggies
and a fruit or two and a couple of dairy servings, Fitday tells me I've
met
the US RDA for nutrients.)

Weigh yourself weekly and use Fitday to track your progress. Adjust
your
calorie target as appropriate based on your declining weight. (Weight
Watchers does this with adjustments to your target points. That
dietician
would do it with periodic progress meetings and adjustments to your
diet.)

Set yourself some goals. Start with a small one -- maybe to lose 5
kilos.
Add a very popular longer-term goal -- to lose 10% of your current
weight.
Set rewards for yourself when you make your goals -- nonfood, of
course,
like buying a CD you've wanted for losing 5 kilos, and some new clothes
(which you'll need) when you've lost 10%.

As I said before, losing weight is not at all easy -- in fact, it's
difficult enough that most overweight people never manage to do it.
But
it
is simple.

Anny

"ray miller" wrote in message
...
I missed this thread while on holiday but I've just read most of it.
snip

Thanks for your post Ray. I won't comment on all of it but I'd just like to
clarify something. I don't actually eat the things I mentioned in my
(probably first) post in this thread. I LIKE those things and used to eat
them all the time, but I don't now. I eat other things now that are a lot
better for me. They aren't as good as veggies but they aren't burgers and
cakes and things. I'm really not that daft ya know. I simply don't want
to get into details of what I DO eat because then several people will
critisise that and it'll just make me feel like there's no point carrying on
with it. I already do feel close to that because of what some people here
have written.

I also have to say that some of what you wrote was very condecending. You
probably didn't mean it that way but that is how it came across. For
example, accusing me of "playing games" with you by giving better and
better excuses for not eating veggies! I'm sorry but that's totally
rediculas. Also telling me that I must exercise? Please Ray, give me a
little credit? Please? Don't you think I am exercising, as I've stated in
many posts here?

Oh dear, the more I read the more I find unfortunately. You said that I need
to look in myself for help first. Ray, please mate, read what I write. I
lost about 4.5 pounds in the last week. I don't know what I lost in total in
the 3 weeks I've been doing this for. I'm 35 years old and losing weight has
been my life-long ambition. I've tried several times to lose weight and
occasionally got somewhere. This time, I AM getting somewhere and have so
far done it ON MY OWN. If that doesn't mean I've looked into myself for help
first, what does it mean?

Thanks for your suggestions anyway,
Geoff.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
"Deb in Northern California" wrote in message
...
I too am not a fan of veggies, but you said you like burgers, do you eat
them with tomato, onion or lettuce or plain with mayo, ketchup and
mustard?

Hi again Debbie. Well I haven't eaten one burger since starting to lose
weight. I'm embarrassed to say that I don't like tomato, onion, lettue or
may or mustard! Kinda funny in a way isn't it? I used to have burgers with
just cheese and nothing else. I don't consider a burger something I should
eat on a diet though so I'm staying well clear of them. I know I could
still
have one but it would take up too many points, and there are a few other
things I like anyway that are less points, so I can have more of them to
help fill me up.

You can eat the burger, btw. It is usually all the extras like mayo that add
the extra calories. Don't supersize it either. A 4oz patty made with lean
meat is around 5 points. Add a low fat/high fiber roll for another 2 or 3
and you have a 8 point sandwich. Nothing wrong with that. That's the beauty
of the program - nothing is really forbidden or impossible to have. You just
have to get creative with your points and fit things in. There are also
veggie (oops there's that word again) and turkey burgers. Both taste like
beef if seasoned right and are much lower in points. I even found Tuna and
salmon burgers but have not tried them. Burger king even has veggie burgers.

I actually didn't realise that you have to eat 5 (I think people have said
5, right?) bits of fruit or veggies per day with the points system. Lots
of
people have told me that though so I don't know why my Mother (who is
following WW 'properly') hasn't mentioned that to me. I wonder if the
American and British points system are slightly different? I know you're
American by the way (because of how you spelt 'realize'). :-) Anyway I'll
ask my Mother what she's been told about it when I see her.

Does your mother still have all of her materials from the meetings? The
first book from the US program is called Getting started and explains the
whole program plus has a handy food guide in the back. Maybe reading that
would help you understand the program fully. I know that you have said that
you are just doing the points part of it but maybe you'll find the program
worth doing completely.

Also, did you realize that most bananas count as two fruits.

No I didn't, and as I like bananas, that's a good thing.

I think you would be able to get your fruits/veggies in with fruits if
that
is what you like. A serving of fruit is not much, but it can count as a
lot
towards your fruits and veggies.

That's great. I realise I need to change what I currently eat to include
fruit properly. At the moment I just have a banana if I feel like it, but
that's not even one a day. When I go shopping though I am going to buy
other
fruit that I like and I'll have that instead of some of the other things
I'm
eating at the moment. At the moment, for something sweet after a meal (or
my
version of a meal anyway!) I either have a cereal bar or a bown of cereal.
At least cereal gives me some of what I know I need like fibre, and it's
better than eating cakes.

Finding other fruits would be a good idea. Bananas are the only fruit that
is high in points.

Also potatoes and corn are veggies, as someone else stated they are
not zero point veggies, but they do count as a vegetable. So you may
be surprised with a potato and a banana and one other fruit/veggie and
you have had your minimum for the day.

Well I like potatoes-It just takes a while to prepare and cook them so
that
puts me off, but I suppose the ones you get in a tin are ok? I have some
of
those tins so I'll look up the points for them and see how possible it'll
be
to have a tin of those a day. Then I just need to find something to have
with them.

Mashed is good too as long as you avoid the sour cream and/or butter. Check
the calories, etc of the ones in the tin. They might have sauces added?

Do you have a microwave? That would make cooking them faster.

I personally find I am more satisfied with 1/2 rice (2 points) than potatoes
or pasta.

Also did you know fruit juices also count towards the fruits and
veggies, granted they don't fill you up but at least you get your
minimums
fulfilled.

I didn't know that, no. I only really like apple juice so I'll look up
what
the points are for that too.

Thanks for all the information and support Debbie.
Geoff.

"Laura" wrote in message
...
That's an excellent start.

Thanks.

The more I read this thread the more I realise that you CAN do the WW
program without the veggies. Or at least you can at your weight.

Yeah I agree, and you make a good point when you say "at least at your
weight". As I get sick of saying to some people, I MAY try veggies someday
but at the moment, what I am doing IS working and I AM losing weight, and at
my weight that is all that matters. What more do people want? Before someone
suggests that it won't do my body any good to not eat veggies, please accept
that it will do my body a heck of a lot LESS good than staying as I am
(was), as THAT is the alternative.

I don't mean all that at you Laura by the way. I'm just pretty wound up
right now for a number of reasons, one being that I just replied to yet
another poster telling me I have to eat veggies and that I must get
exercise, etc, etc..

I think the hard part is going to be when you get down to 250-300 range
where your points are around 30 points.

How do you know how much I weight by the way? Maybe I mentioned it but I
don't think I did?

This will be when you will want to start looking at finding 0 point foods
to
keep you satisfied.

Yes I agree and I will be more inclined to start on veggies then. To be
blunt though, if I ever manage to get to that weight I'll be SUCH a
different person in SO many ways that trying veggies may not be a problem at
all!

Thanks Laura,
Geoff.

"Laura" wrote in message
...
For many, myself included, it is easier to count to 25 than it is to count
to 1200 each day. Just makes it easier to follow. Still the same concept.
Eat less food and exercise more to lose weight.


That is exactly why I'm doing it, because it's just an easy way to make sure
I eat the right amount. I can just never think of how to explain these
things to people so I'm glad you and some others are helping me out.

Geoff.

"Laura" wrote in message
...
You can eat the burger, btw. It is usually all the extras like mayo that
add
the extra calories. Don't supersize it either. A 4oz patty made with lean
meat is around 5 points. Add a low fat/high fiber roll for another 2 or 3
and you have a 8 point sandwich. Nothing wrong with that. That's the
beauty
of the program - nothing is really forbidden or impossible to have.

I only used to have them plain anyway so the extras like mayo wouldn't
affect me. It's still a lot of points though, and it doesn't really fill me
up much. I eat alternatives now that are much better for me and less points,
so I can eat more of them.

You just have to get creative with your points and fit things in. There
are also
veggie (oops there's that word again) and turkey burgers. Both taste like
beef if seasoned right and are much lower in points.

I found some chicken burgers and they have a crazy number of points. They
weren't plain breasts (the actress said to the bishop), but ones with a
coating on that you freeze and cook in the oven. I couldn't believe how many
points they had. I need to spend longer looking for stuff like that when I
go shopping. I have been having roast turkey lately on a Sunday with plain
potatoes and quite a large meal is only about 5 points. I'd do that every
day if I could afford it or be bothered to cook it all.

I even found Tuna and salmon burgers but have not tried them. Burger
king even has veggie burgers.

I like Tuna but as I don't like mayo it's very dry. The only thing I have it
with is bread in a sandwich, but it's so dry and there's nothing at all I
like to put on it.

As for BK veggie burgers-Well my girlfriend eats them and they stick badly
of garlic and have SO many nasty things in. I just couldn't eat though.

Does your mother still have all of her materials from the meetings?

Yep.

The first book from the US program is called Getting started and explains
the
whole program plus has a handy food guide in the back. Maybe reading that
would help you understand the program fully. I know that you have said
that
you are just doing the points part of it but maybe you'll find the program
worth doing completely.

I have looked at it a bit but I just don't think I want to do the it
'properly'. Maybe once I've lost a resonable amount of weight, I'll feel a
lot more confident and feel like going to the meetings etc.. I still don't
like the idea of paying them for what I already know, but if it's the only
way to meet people properly in the same position as me, maybe I might do one
day.

Finding other fruits would be a good idea. Bananas are the only fruit that
is high in points.

I only like bananas, apples and grapes and am getting them when I shop soon.

Mashed is good too as long as you avoid the sour cream and/or butter.
Check
the calories, etc of the ones in the tin. They might have sauces added?

Oh I don't like sauces. Mashed is an idea though, thanks. I'll take a
look at some instant mash and see what it says about fat/calories.

I personally find I am more satisfied with 1/2 rice (2 points) than
potatoes
or pasta.

Guess what? I don't like rice! LOL. That is something I'm often tempted to
try though and I think I'll probably be ok with that.

Thanks Laura,
Geoff.