An interesting observation.

krys wrote:

I do prefer local pubs - I'm a CAMRA member - finding good for & beer places
is kind of a vocation for me.... Even if there's nowt WW friendly, there's
nearly always the jacket potato option, or a salad/ploughmans type thing,
which I can adapt. I do eat puds - but I save points for them. Dinner out
is generally only a two course affair too though - purely cos I can't
usually find 3 things in a row that add up to the right amount! I love it
in France where you can ALWAYS have sorbet for pudding

Do CAMRA do the Good Pub Guide as well as the Good Beer Guide?

I find these days that I want either a starter OR a pudding - not both!
I just do not have space for both! And a prawn cocktail, even with
sauce, is fewer points than a jam roly-poly and custard!

Damn! I *wish* I hadn't said jam roly-poly and custard!


I've only been to the 'States once - about 10 years ago - but yes - the
portion sizes really were THAT big! We're talking at least twice what you'd
get here.....hence the ability to split it in two I suppose!

Scary!


YMMV. Depends on whether or not you have a sweet tooth. I like to have
something sweet every day - I have to have pudding after tea too. Lots of
caramel rice cakes, fruit, and yoghurt sort me out. I just fit it all in
within the WW plan.

I have a little bit of a sweet tooth, but usually satisfy it with fruit
or a fruit yoghurt, and the occasional WW chocolate crisp bar. I'm
trying NOT to eat so much stuff like that as it was my downfall before.
I could munch my way through half a packet of chocolate digestive
biscuits in 10 minutes with a mug of tea!

Mostly I'm like you here, but I do have days when the trigger goes, and I
could eat for my country......my "nail it down or I'll eat it" days. I end
up eating a whole heap of veggies to try and squash it....which usually
leads to indigestion - but hey, at least it wasn't cookies... I am
generally happy to just have a taste of something though - but I do have to
taste everything if we're all eating out, just to reassure myself I'm not
missing anything!

I have 'eat for England' days too - usually, like today, it's because I
forget to have breakfast! I had a friend over, and work to do, so we
sat in the sewing room and nattered. I ended up not having breakfast
before she arrived at 11 am, by when it was way too late! We had lunch
at 12:30. Zero point carrot and coriander soup and a low fat ham
sandwich each, followed by mugs of tea and a WW crisp bar. I had
another bar after the visitor and customers had gone, and then cooked
pasta for tea: 3 points of pasta, 2.5 of cheese to top it, and a zero
point sauce. Then hunger really caught up with me, and I ate a marmite
sandwich! Since then I've nibbled a banana and another bar, for another
3 points, and have had 18 of the day's 22. I shall save the rest for
the weekend, for a glass of wine. If I get really nibblish before bed,
there are carrots in the fridge, as well as tomatoes and cucumber, so I
can have a zero point salad dressed with half a point of olive oil and a
dribble of zero point balsamic vinegar. I get more satisfaction from
this than from a 3 point bag of crisps/chips or a 3 point pair of cookies.


Yep - I need a treat every day. A low point one, obviously. Otherwise I'd
feel like I was denying myself stuff, and then want them more.

This is the way I work. If I *can* have the treat because I have the
points, I want it less often. Today I had to many sweet WW bars,
because I didn't eat wisely earlier. If I have a proper breakfast
(porridge or cereal and a banana, for example) I'm less likely to get
the mad nibbles at the wrong end of the day.


For me a BIIIG treat is to go to the fabric store, where I can splurge
on delicious goodies with no calories at all, that keep me occupied away
from the danger zone in the kitchen!


Ah, well, if I was blessed with your sewing talents.........

It's a high fibre diet! I find that I spend less on food, so have
more to spend on fabric.

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Laura wrote:


For me they were a way of using up my points at the end of the day that did
not require much work or thought. Just grab and eat. Mindless TV watching
eating. Core has taught me to each more "proper" foods so I don't have room
for the junk nor is it allowed on the plan without using your weekly 35 flex
points. I'd rather use those points on my 2 point non-fat ice cream and the
occasional dinner out these days.


This is the part I don't get... If I have points left at the end of the
day and I'm not hungry, I save them for a hungry day, a meal out, or a
treat at the weekend. The mindless eating in front of the TV does
happen here in the UK, but it isn't something I ever bought into. My
downfall was portions that were too big for the sedentary lifestyle, and
cookies and cake while nattering over coffee with friends. Or half a
pack of cookies when I took a break because I'd got stuck into work and
forgotten breakfast!

You have learned what works best for you. It probably did not happen over
night either. It takes a high level of commitment too to give up the snacks
and junk food in favor of healthy foods. I think those that can make this
commitment will be very successful in their weight loss efforts. I am
viewing this process as a way of life requiring permenant changes to make it
work. It took me quite some time to reach that level of understanding.

It was a long time coming, but once I hopped on the WW trip, I pretty
much converted over night. Then I was severely ill last year with the
gall bladder disease, and became even more strict with myself. One
hospital episode was quite enough, thank you! Since removal at
Christmas, I've explored the bounds of my system and discovered that
fats are off for good! Anything fatty goes through like greased
lightening! It keeps me good, I suppose, and as time goes on I'm less
and less tempted by pork pies, rich cakes and sauces, and gloopy sweet puds.


I don't think it is a cultural thing. Your illness made you rethink what you
were eating. You figured out what type of lifestyle works for you.


It certainly made me re-evaluate what I wanted in life: to be pain free!

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kara H wrote:

"Kate Dicey" wrote:


What is it with the snacks? Why eat them at all? Why not just eat more
'proper' food and forget the chips, the dips, the pretzel thingies, and
the other stuff? Are they really a treat if you have them every day?
For me my treat is the mug of low fat hot chocolate and the WW cake I
get at my meeting every week, the occasional glass of wine with Sunday
Dinner, an occasional meal out or glass of beer, not something I have
every single day to fill in the corners. If I need corners filled, I
head for bread (if I have the points) or zero point soup, or raw veggies
and fruit.


Understandable but often times I get VERY hungry between meals. Our WW
leader told us we should be eating every 2 hours. This is to prevent you
from being RAVENOUS at dinner/lunch etc and then having trouble controlling
yourself. The point of the program is not to be hungry. It's great that you
don't need snacks much but some people do. Sometimes when I'm NOT hungry I
have a snack anyway because I agree with the leader's logic. If they have
the points for it...why not? It's not hurting anyone. You get to spend more
points on your big meals than they do. It evens out. I really haven't seen
people talking about eating chips and dips for snacks here and if they do
that- great. They are the ones who will be using up the points. Every snack
I have isn't a "treat" unless you consider light pear cups a treat or WW
snack bars, etc. I *do* need a treat every day. It keeps me going. I get
that treat but I save up for it. It's not like my treats are WHOLE pints of
ice cream. I will have a SkinnyCow sandwich or a whole fruit popsicle. I
understand you concerns but in the same way I don't really understand why it
matters. THEY are the ones using up their points on things...it's THEIR
concern. If they throw out points on snacks and treats- GOOD FOR THEM! I
don't think we should be denying ourselves all of these things because we
are on WW. I think the founders would be appalled if they heard we were
doing that! You have to understand that everyone is very different. You
don't need snacks, others do. You don't need treats, others do. That doesn't
mean anyone is less of a WW member. Does that make sense?

HTH,
-Kara.


Oh, it makes sense, and I'm not criticising anyone for their choices: I
just want to understand why we make the different choices and why *I*
think of a between meals snack as an apple, a carrot or two, or a
marmite sandwich, and others head for the cakes and cookies and chips
and stuff. The way I see it, all those cakes and and cookies and high
fat chips and salted nuts were the things that triggered my over eating,
and to break the cycle I needed to get away from them, not find low
fat/calorie versions of the danger foods. I needed to form new habits
and break old ones rather than needing radical re-education. In a way
I'm lucky because I really *prefer* fruit and vegetables to crisps/chips
and their ilk, and always did. Heading for the cupboard and the cookie
barrel was habit rather than preference. Now I head for the fridge and
hunt in the vegetable drawer... Beware, you raw cauliflower that was
supposed to be for Sunday Dinner! Kate's rampaging Saturday night
nibble-fest might get you first!

I suppose the cultural thing is as much a family culture as anything
else: my parents did their teen years here in the UK during the war, and
rationing got stricter for a while just at the end of the war. There
was little in the way of luxuries like chocolate and biscuits/cookies
and cakes: you had to make them, and that meant giving up the sugar
ration to enable the cake to be made. As a result, cakes and
biscuits/cookies were part of a meal in our house when I was a child: if
you stopped by for a mid morning drink and snack, you might get a single
cookie and an apple. As an impoverishes student I couldn't afford stuff
like that, and while I might have a pack of biscuits in my cupboard, it
had to last all week, and apples and tomatoes and stuff were cheaper, so
I always had them on hand. I got fat later when I was more affluent,
led a less active lifestyle, and the habit really set in when I was
teaching and the cookie barrel was there for raiding any time you
passed. I used to get in from school starving, having had time for
little or no lunch, and just eat whatever was easiest as a stop-gap
until dinner.

Now I'm heading back in the direction of childhood: 3 decent meals a day
and a few healthy snacks to fill the gaps if needed. I find I nibble if
bored, so I try to keep busy. I don't always succeed: some days I fail
miserably. I'm still learning what my triggers are. TOM triggers carb
cravings, and I head for the bread bin! I can swallow half a loaf at a
sitting! Rice is another thing I can eat until it's almost coming out
my ears! But not potatoes... Funny, that! Depression triggers sugar
and chocolate cravings, and so does pain. When the fibro is bad, I want
to nibble chocolate cookies and cake all day!

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Anny Middon wrote:

Often, yes, they are that large. Last weekend we went to a new local
restaurant. The burgers were made from 8 ounces of meat each. This is
actually pretty standard around here for dinner burgers at restaurants.
Steaks that weigh in at 10 or more ounces are common (and 22 ounce "hearty
eater" portions are seen in quite a few restaurants).

I could (and do!) feed the whole family on that much meat! Ye gods and
little fishes!

But a difference between you and me is that I *love* re-heated restaurant
food! There's nothing like peering into the fridge and realizing that
there's still some kung pao shrimp to nuke for lunch.

Ugh! Bleah! I'd rather cook fresh noodles and throw in a few veggies!

And the whole "doggy bag" thing does seem to be somewhat cultural. I read
just a few days ago about how uncommon this is in Europe, while here in the
US if you leave more than a few bites on your plate it's almost guaranteed
that the waitperson will offer to wrap it up for you. And not just at
casual places -- fine restaurants with name chefs pretty much expect people
to want to take their leftovers with them.

Most of the places I go will wrap it for you if you ask, but some will
give you funny looks! Mind you, with much smaller, more sensible sized
portions, much less is left.

Another cultural difference seems to be the number of courses expected in a
restaurant dinner. In many restaurants, a salad or soup is included with
your meal and many people have only that for starters. I'd estimate that at
least 95% of the time I do not order an appetizer at a restaurant, and that
most of the times when appetizers are ordered, one or two will be ordered to
be shared by the four or six people at the table. Many Europeans and
Australians seem to expect that any restaurant meal includes a starter
course.

If soup or salad was included as part of the meal, I wouldn't order an
extra starter either. They are usually separate he there are '2
courses for £XX' type deals, and you get to decide if you want starter
or pudding. If you want both, you add the cost of the more expensive
option to the price of the meal.

I almost never order dessert in a restaurant, either, and I'd guess this is
true of many other Americans. In fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find
that more than half of all diners here forego a dessert course in most
restaurants. I expect this is not true in Europe.

Oh, yes: very common in the UK to go from main course to coffee with no
pudding. Many years ago, my parents would often 'share' a meal: Mum
would have a substantial starter and a pudding, Dad would have only a
main course, and they would both end with coffee. If we are in the
right sort of pub, and DH isn't driving, he'll often forgo pudding for
another pint of really good live beer.

It is a little different in France where the set menu of 3 or 4 courses
is more common. There we've had meals that started with an aperitif
followed by soup, progressed through salad followed by the main meat
course, pudding of some sort, and cheese and crackers to finish, topped
off with coffee and a digestifs like cognac... None of the courses were
huge, but you ended up very well fed! I cannot imagine doing that now -
I'd explode!
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
Laura wrote:


For me they were a way of using up my points at the end of the day that
did
not require much work or thought. Just grab and eat. Mindless TV
watching
eating. Core has taught me to each more "proper" foods so I don't have
room
for the junk nor is it allowed on the plan without using your weekly 35
flex
points. I'd rather use those points on my 2 point non-fat ice cream and
the
occasional dinner out these days.


This is the part I don't get... If I have points left at the end of the
day and I'm not hungry, I save them for a hungry day, a meal out, or a
treat at the weekend.

This is one of the drawbacks of the US Flex plan. You have to eat a minimum
number of points each day. I typically ate a nice breakfast and lunch but
had a ton of points left over for dinner + evening snacks. If DH made a low
point dinner (typically chicken breast and steamed veggies) I still had 6 or
7 point left after dinner that I was expected to use. This is when I was
eating the junk food and sometimes did not count my points correctly so I
ended up going over. No "banking" of these points allowed since we already
had the 35 Flex points to use.

The mindless eating in front of the TV does
happen here in the UK, but it isn't something I ever bought into. My
downfall was portions that were too big for the sedentary lifestyle, and
cookies and cake while nattering over coffee with friends. Or half a
pack of cookies when I took a break because I'd got stuck into work and
forgotten breakfast!

My primary downfall was working late every night and hitting McDonalds at
8pm for a Big mac and Fries. Probably 1000 calories in that meal alone. With
working long hours who has time for exercise. I am soooo glad I am no longer
at that job.

You have learned what works best for you. It probably did not happen
over
night either. It takes a high level of commitment too to give up the
snacks
and junk food in favor of healthy foods. I think those that can make
this
commitment will be very successful in their weight loss efforts. I am
viewing this process as a way of life requiring permenant changes to
make it
work. It took me quite some time to reach that level of understanding.

It was a long time coming, but once I hopped on the WW trip, I pretty
much converted over night. Then I was severely ill last year with the
gall bladder disease, and became even more strict with myself. One
hospital episode was quite enough, thank you! Since removal at
Christmas, I've explored the bounds of my system and discovered that
fats are off for good! Anything fatty goes through like greased
lightening! It keeps me good, I suppose, and as time goes on I'm less
and less tempted by pork pies, rich cakes and sauces, and gloopy sweet
puds.

I pretty much "got it" over night myself. There have been several irregulars
in this group that keep popping in and out of the group each time they
"start over". Until they "get it" and eliminate the junk food in their menus
they will struggle with this program. One thing that I like about the new
core plan is that by eliminating the junk especially the chemicals my
cravings have greatly dimimished. I can now sit in front of the TV at night
and NOT crave the chips like I did before. Now a piece of fruit will satisfy
me. Some nights I don't even have an evening snack. I still have either
non-fat ice cream (2 pts) or FF yogart sweetened with splenda and cinnamin
as dessert. Some night this keeps me until bedtime.


I don't think it is a cultural thing. Your illness made you rethink what
you
were eating. You figured out what type of lifestyle works for you.


It certainly made me re-evaluate what I wanted in life: to be pain free!

I'm sure it did. Gallbladder problems aren't fun.

"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
krys wrote:

I do prefer local pubs - I'm a CAMRA member - finding good for & beer
places
is kind of a vocation for me.... Even if there's nowt WW friendly,
there's
nearly always the jacket potato option, or a salad/ploughmans type
thing,
which I can adapt. I do eat puds - but I save points for them. Dinner
out
is generally only a two course affair too though - purely cos I can't
usually find 3 things in a row that add up to the right amount! I love
it
in France where you can ALWAYS have sorbet for pudding

Do CAMRA do the Good Pub Guide as well as the Good Beer Guide?

I don't think so. They do various guides.....or are associated with, but
the Pub one is a tad separate. Which is fine, cos as far as I'm concerned,
the Good Beer Guide serves my needs.......

I find these days that I want either a starter OR a pudding - not both!
I just do not have space for both! And a prawn cocktail, even with
sauce, is fewer points than a jam roly-poly and custard!

Damn! I *wish* I hadn't said jam roly-poly and custard!

Nah - that's fine. Just don't mention cheesecake.......*grin*

I've only been to the 'States once - about 10 years ago - but yes - the
portion sizes really were THAT big! We're talking at least twice what
you'd
get here.....hence the ability to split it in two I suppose!

Scary!

No kidding!


YMMV. Depends on whether or not you have a sweet tooth. I like to have
something sweet every day - I have to have pudding after tea too. Lots
of
caramel rice cakes, fruit, and yoghurt sort me out. I just fit it all
in
within the WW plan.

I have a little bit of a sweet tooth, but usually satisfy it with fruit
or a fruit yoghurt, and the occasional WW chocolate crisp bar. I'm
trying NOT to eat so much stuff like that as it was my downfall before.
I could munch my way through half a packet of chocolate digestive
biscuits in 10 minutes with a mug of tea!

You said in another message that if you don't eat points you just save them
for a hungry day or a treat day. I can't do that. I earn so many points
per week, I get to a stage where I have to eat them or I'll hit starvation
mode. Last weekend I had my first doughnut since I started - that's like 2
years. But I had points I had to use.....and I savoured every mouthful

Mostly I'm like you here, but I do have days when the trigger goes, and
I
could eat for my country......my "nail it down or I'll eat it" days. I
end
up eating a whole heap of veggies to try and squash it....which usually
leads to indigestion - but hey, at least it wasn't cookies... I am
generally happy to just have a taste of something though - but I do have
to
taste everything if we're all eating out, just to reassure myself I'm
not
missing anything!

I have 'eat for England' days too - usually, like today, it's because I
forget to have breakfast! I had a friend over, and work to do, so we
sat in the sewing room and nattered. I ended up not having breakfast
before she arrived at 11 am, by when it was way too late! We had lunch
at 12:30. Zero point carrot and coriander soup and a low fat ham
sandwich each, followed by mugs of tea and a WW crisp bar. I had
another bar after the visitor and customers had gone, and then cooked
pasta for tea: 3 points of pasta, 2.5 of cheese to top it, and a zero
point sauce. Then hunger really caught up with me, and I ate a marmite
sandwich! Since then I've nibbled a banana and another bar, for another
3 points, and have had 18 of the day's 22. I shall save the rest for
the weekend, for a glass of wine. If I get really nibblish before bed,
there are carrots in the fridge, as well as tomatoes and cucumber, so I
can have a zero point salad dressed with half a point of olive oil and a
dribble of zero point balsamic vinegar. I get more satisfaction from
this than from a 3 point bag of crisps/chips or a 3 point pair of cookies.

I ALWAYS have breakfast. Always. Ever since I started WW. B4 that, it was
an optional, frequently skipped, extra......not now.

Yep - I need a treat every day. A low point one, obviously. Otherwise
I'd
feel like I was denying myself stuff, and then want them more.

This is the way I work. If I *can* have the treat because I have the
points, I want it less often. Today I had to many sweet WW bars,
because I didn't eat wisely earlier. If I have a proper breakfast
(porridge or cereal and a banana, for example) I'm less likely to get
the mad nibbles at the wrong end of the day.

I just love having that little bit of self-indulgence every day. Little
treats every day, big treats at the weekend - which is what I save my APs
for.

It's a high fibre diet! I find that I spend less on food, so have
more to spend on fabric.

Well, if I get back to painting again, I may agree....... )

--
krys

UK 157/126.2/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001 and July 22nd 2004
....undoing the holiday damage...

"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
krys wrote:

I do prefer local pubs - I'm a CAMRA member - finding good for & beer
places
is kind of a vocation for me.... Even if there's nowt WW friendly,
there's
nearly always the jacket potato option, or a salad/ploughmans type
thing,
which I can adapt. I do eat puds - but I save points for them. Dinner
out
is generally only a two course affair too though - purely cos I can't
usually find 3 things in a row that add up to the right amount! I love
it
in France where you can ALWAYS have sorbet for pudding

Do CAMRA do the Good Pub Guide as well as the Good Beer Guide?

I don't think so. They do various guides.....or are associated with, but
the Pub one is a tad separate. Which is fine, cos as far as I'm concerned,
the Good Beer Guide serves my needs.......

I find these days that I want either a starter OR a pudding - not both!
I just do not have space for both! And a prawn cocktail, even with
sauce, is fewer points than a jam roly-poly and custard!

Damn! I *wish* I hadn't said jam roly-poly and custard!

Nah - that's fine. Just don't mention cheesecake.......*grin*

I've only been to the 'States once - about 10 years ago - but yes - the
portion sizes really were THAT big! We're talking at least twice what
you'd
get here.....hence the ability to split it in two I suppose!

Scary!

No kidding!


YMMV. Depends on whether or not you have a sweet tooth. I like to have
something sweet every day - I have to have pudding after tea too. Lots
of
caramel rice cakes, fruit, and yoghurt sort me out. I just fit it all
in
within the WW plan.

I have a little bit of a sweet tooth, but usually satisfy it with fruit
or a fruit yoghurt, and the occasional WW chocolate crisp bar. I'm
trying NOT to eat so much stuff like that as it was my downfall before.
I could munch my way through half a packet of chocolate digestive
biscuits in 10 minutes with a mug of tea!

You said in another message that if you don't eat points you just save them
for a hungry day or a treat day. I can't do that. I earn so many points
per week, I get to a stage where I have to eat them or I'll hit starvation
mode. Last weekend I had my first doughnut since I started - that's like 2
years. But I had points I had to use.....and I savoured every mouthful

Mostly I'm like you here, but I do have days when the trigger goes, and
I
could eat for my country......my "nail it down or I'll eat it" days. I
end
up eating a whole heap of veggies to try and squash it....which usually
leads to indigestion - but hey, at least it wasn't cookies... I am
generally happy to just have a taste of something though - but I do have
to
taste everything if we're all eating out, just to reassure myself I'm
not
missing anything!

I have 'eat for England' days too - usually, like today, it's because I
forget to have breakfast! I had a friend over, and work to do, so we
sat in the sewing room and nattered. I ended up not having breakfast
before she arrived at 11 am, by when it was way too late! We had lunch
at 12:30. Zero point carrot and coriander soup and a low fat ham
sandwich each, followed by mugs of tea and a WW crisp bar. I had
another bar after the visitor and customers had gone, and then cooked
pasta for tea: 3 points of pasta, 2.5 of cheese to top it, and a zero
point sauce. Then hunger really caught up with me, and I ate a marmite
sandwich! Since then I've nibbled a banana and another bar, for another
3 points, and have had 18 of the day's 22. I shall save the rest for
the weekend, for a glass of wine. If I get really nibblish before bed,
there are carrots in the fridge, as well as tomatoes and cucumber, so I
can have a zero point salad dressed with half a point of olive oil and a
dribble of zero point balsamic vinegar. I get more satisfaction from
this than from a 3 point bag of crisps/chips or a 3 point pair of cookies.

I ALWAYS have breakfast. Always. Ever since I started WW. B4 that, it was
an optional, frequently skipped, extra......not now.

Yep - I need a treat every day. A low point one, obviously. Otherwise
I'd
feel like I was denying myself stuff, and then want them more.

This is the way I work. If I *can* have the treat because I have the
points, I want it less often. Today I had to many sweet WW bars,
because I didn't eat wisely earlier. If I have a proper breakfast
(porridge or cereal and a banana, for example) I'm less likely to get
the mad nibbles at the wrong end of the day.

I just love having that little bit of self-indulgence every day. Little
treats every day, big treats at the weekend - which is what I save my APs
for.

It's a high fibre diet! I find that I spend less on food, so have
more to spend on fabric.

Well, if I get back to painting again, I may agree....... )

--
krys

UK 157/126.2/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001 and July 22nd 2004
....undoing the holiday damage...

If what you do works for you.. then good for you.. I'd rather have a little
treat every day than have a big treat every now and then.. it's a matter of
how you want it to work for you..

I lost 70 lbs in 9 months, got my blood pressure, cholesterol, sugar level
in control and got myself in shape.. and still had cheetos (cheese puffs)
every night.. in controlled portions.. it satisfied me, it worked, and it
still does..

There's different ways to live the program for different people..

And YES here in the States that portions are big enough for 2 FULL meals..
and no I wouldn't doggie bag certain food.. but other (like chicken breast
or fish that I add to a salad later) make good "left overs" and I don't have
a dog..

What works for one person might not at all work for another.. I couldn't eat
only vegetables and lean meat and have no treats.. because there's nothing
wrong with treats anyway.. food is not the enemy..

--
Will~

196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs
89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg

Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg
"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
Not a criticism or an attack on anyone: just some observations that may
have cultural implications...

When I read this group I see a lot of people trying to help each other
and a lot of good advice, but I also see an awful lot of people who eat
in chain restaurants, looking for lower point ways of navigating their
menus. This is good, in a way, but it puzzles me. For me eating out is
a treat that happens occasionally. I save points for it, and plan
ahead. I do try to take the healthy options, asking for boiled rather
than roast potatoes or chips/fries (I prefer them anyway so that's no
hardship), and just pointing the rest carefully. I don't eat puddings
often, so the occasional treat is nice, and again, I budget points fr
that or a starter. I can no longer manage both unless pudding is
something like a home made berry sorbet. I avoid chain restaurants like
the plague, much preferring local pubs with good chefs who make proper
food.

Portion size also puzzles me... Are portions REALLY so large that
taking half home to eat later is expected? Here, portions can be
generous, but are rarely THAT big, and 'doggy-bagging' the remains is
only valid if the dog is there to back your claims! Re-heated
restaurant food is not the most attractive option...

I also see people hunting out the sweet snacks and trying to find lower
point alternatives. I see this here as well. I save that sort of thing
for special occasions (making birthday cake for my son, for example),
rather than looking for a way to have them every day. I'm no saint -
far from it - but that stuff is SO much more expensive than raw veggies
and fresh fruit. I'm lucky that I LIKE lots of vegetables and fruit,
and I used to eat cookies but the packet load, but not now.

I suppose being ill helped a lot there as well: you tend to go off
things that put you in a lot of pain! But even now, where once 2 or 3
slices of cake was normal, one small one does just fine.

What is it with the snacks? Why eat them at all? Why not just eat more
'proper' food and forget the chips, the dips, the pretzel thingies, and
the other stuff? Are they really a treat if you have them every day?
For me my treat is the mug of low fat hot chocolate and the WW cake I
get at my meeting every week, the occasional glass of wine with Sunday
Dinner, an occasional meal out or glass of beer, not something I have
every single day to fill in the corners. If I need corners filled, I
head for bread (if I have the points) or zero point soup, or raw veggies
and fruit.

For me a BIIIG treat is to go to the fabric store, where I can splurge
on delicious goodies with no calories at all, that keep me occupied away
from the danger zone in the kitchen!

I *do* have treats (but not every day), I *do* have lapses, I *do* have
greedy days when I go over points, but I don't fill the cupboard with
expensive low point snacky things as an alternative to the food that
made me ill and fat. Is it the pain thing with me? Or is it really a
cultural thing?
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

"Miss Violette" wrote:

I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the
difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in
nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate
celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee

I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a little
'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her
intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at that!

-Kara.

I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the
difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in
nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate
celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee
Kara H wrote in message
...
"Kate Dicey" wrote:

What is it with the snacks? Why eat them at all? Why not just eat more
'proper' food and forget the chips, the dips, the pretzel thingies, and
the other stuff? Are they really a treat if you have them every day?
For me my treat is the mug of low fat hot chocolate and the WW cake I
get at my meeting every week, the occasional glass of wine with Sunday
Dinner, an occasional meal out or glass of beer, not something I have
every single day to fill in the corners. If I need corners filled, I
head for bread (if I have the points) or zero point soup, or raw veggies
and fruit.

Understandable but often times I get VERY hungry between meals. Our WW
leader told us we should be eating every 2 hours. This is to prevent you
from being RAVENOUS at dinner/lunch etc and then having trouble
controlling
yourself. The point of the program is not to be hungry. It's great that
you
don't need snacks much but some people do. Sometimes when I'm NOT hungry I
have a snack anyway because I agree with the leader's logic. If they have
the points for it...why not? It's not hurting anyone. You get to spend
more
points on your big meals than they do. It evens out. I really haven't seen
people talking about eating chips and dips for snacks here and if they do
that- great. They are the ones who will be using up the points. Every
snack
I have isn't a "treat" unless you consider light pear cups a treat or WW
snack bars, etc. I *do* need a treat every day. It keeps me going. I get
that treat but I save up for it. It's not like my treats are WHOLE pints
of
ice cream. I will have a SkinnyCow sandwich or a whole fruit popsicle. I
understand you concerns but in the same way I don't really understand why
it
matters. THEY are the ones using up their points on things...it's THEIR
concern. If they throw out points on snacks and treats- GOOD FOR THEM! I
don't think we should be denying ourselves all of these things because we
are on WW. I think the founders would be appalled if they heard we were
doing that! You have to understand that everyone is very different. You
don't need snacks, others do. You don't need treats, others do. That
doesn't
mean anyone is less of a WW member. Does that make sense?

HTH,
-Kara.