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#21
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"Kate Dicey" wrote:
The way I see it, all those cakes and and cookies and high fat chips and salted nuts were the things that triggered my over eating, and to break the cycle I needed to get away from them, not find low fat/calorie versions of the danger foods. I needed to form new habits and break old ones rather than needing radical re-education. Well see for me if I had to completely get rid of ALL of those things (which I don't eat much of to begin with) then I would not be able to succeed with the program. I can't do Atkins. I can NOT cut out an entire food group for the sake of losing weight. I don't believe in it and I'm not good at going cold turkey like that. For me, it is MORE productive to eat nearly the same things (but better choices and in smaller amounts) than trying to cut them out all together. What happens is that I do that and then when I come across them again I lose control and eat WAY too much of it!! Again, everyone is different. I can NOT just toss the towel in the air and walk away from all of my old habits. Some people can. I'm lucky because I really *prefer* fruit and vegetables to crisps/chips and their ilk, and always did. Heading for the cupboard and the cookie barrel was habit rather than preference. Now I head for the fridge and hunt in the vegetable drawer... Beware, you raw cauliflower that was supposed to be for Sunday Dinner! Kate's rampaging Saturday night nibble-fest might get you first! Lol. You are lucky in that you prefer them. I'm finding that to be a weak point for me but I eat plenty of fruits with meals. I suppose the cultural thing is as much a family culture as anything Yep, could be. Now I'm heading back in the direction of childhood: 3 decent meals a day and a few healthy snacks to fill the gaps if needed. I find I nibble if bored, so I try to keep busy. I don't always succeed: some days I fail miserably. I'm still learning what my triggers are. TOM triggers carb cravings, and I head for the bread bin! I can swallow half a loaf at a sitting! Rice is another thing I can eat until it's almost coming out my ears! But not potatoes... Funny, that! Depression triggers sugar and chocolate cravings, and so does pain. When the fibro is bad, I want to nibble chocolate cookies and cake all day! That makes sense. I can see the cycle. -Kara. |
#22
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Odd you mentioned desert as even in the before times I rarely ordered it due
to the fact that I knew it wouldn't be a treat because my mom would have cooked it better at some point, Lee who is liking all these observations Anny Middon wrote in message om... "Kate Dicey" wrote in message ... Portion size also puzzles me... Are portions REALLY so large that taking half home to eat later is expected? Here, portions can be generous, but are rarely THAT big, and 'doggy-bagging' the remains is only valid if the dog is there to back your claims! Re-heated restaurant food is not the most attractive option... Often, yes, they are that large. Last weekend we went to a new local restaurant. The burgers were made from 8 ounces of meat each. This is actually pretty standard around here for dinner burgers at restaurants. Steaks that weigh in at 10 or more ounces are common (and 22 ounce "hearty eater" portions are seen in quite a few restaurants). But a difference between you and me is that I *love* re-heated restaurant food! There's nothing like peering into the fridge and realizing that there's still some kung pao shrimp to nuke for lunch. And the whole "doggy bag" thing does seem to be somewhat cultural. I read just a few days ago about how uncommon this is in Europe, while here in the US if you leave more than a few bites on your plate it's almost guaranteed that the waitperson will offer to wrap it up for you. And not just at casual places -- fine restaurants with name chefs pretty much expect people to want to take their leftovers with them. Another cultural difference seems to be the number of courses expected in a restaurant dinner. In many restaurants, a salad or soup is included with your meal and many people have only that for starters. I'd estimate that at least 95% of the time I do not order an appetizer at a restaurant, and that most of the times when appetizers are ordered, one or two will be ordered to be shared by the four or six people at the table. Many Europeans and Australians seem to expect that any restaurant meal includes a starter course. I almost never order dessert in a restaurant, either, and I'd guess this is true of many other Americans. In fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that more than half of all diners here forego a dessert course in most restaurants. I expect this is not true in Europe. Anny |
#23
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but that French meal sure sounds decadent and wonderful, Lee
Kate Dicey wrote in message ... Anny Middon wrote: Often, yes, they are that large. Last weekend we went to a new local restaurant. The burgers were made from 8 ounces of meat each. This is actually pretty standard around here for dinner burgers at restaurants. Steaks that weigh in at 10 or more ounces are common (and 22 ounce "hearty eater" portions are seen in quite a few restaurants). I could (and do!) feed the whole family on that much meat! Ye gods and little fishes! But a difference between you and me is that I *love* re-heated restaurant food! There's nothing like peering into the fridge and realizing that there's still some kung pao shrimp to nuke for lunch. Ugh! Bleah! I'd rather cook fresh noodles and throw in a few veggies! And the whole "doggy bag" thing does seem to be somewhat cultural. I read just a few days ago about how uncommon this is in Europe, while here in the US if you leave more than a few bites on your plate it's almost guaranteed that the waitperson will offer to wrap it up for you. And not just at casual places -- fine restaurants with name chefs pretty much expect people to want to take their leftovers with them. Most of the places I go will wrap it for you if you ask, but some will give you funny looks! Mind you, with much smaller, more sensible sized portions, much less is left. Another cultural difference seems to be the number of courses expected in a restaurant dinner. In many restaurants, a salad or soup is included with your meal and many people have only that for starters. I'd estimate that at least 95% of the time I do not order an appetizer at a restaurant, and that most of the times when appetizers are ordered, one or two will be ordered to be shared by the four or six people at the table. Many Europeans and Australians seem to expect that any restaurant meal includes a starter course. If soup or salad was included as part of the meal, I wouldn't order an extra starter either. They are usually separate he there are '2 courses for £XX' type deals, and you get to decide if you want starter or pudding. If you want both, you add the cost of the more expensive option to the price of the meal. I almost never order dessert in a restaurant, either, and I'd guess this is true of many other Americans. In fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that more than half of all diners here forego a dessert course in most restaurants. I expect this is not true in Europe. Oh, yes: very common in the UK to go from main course to coffee with no pudding. Many years ago, my parents would often 'share' a meal: Mum would have a substantial starter and a pudding, Dad would have only a main course, and they would both end with coffee. If we are in the right sort of pub, and DH isn't driving, he'll often forgo pudding for another pint of really good live beer. It is a little different in France where the set menu of 3 or 4 courses is more common. There we've had meals that started with an aperitif followed by soup, progressed through salad followed by the main meat course, pudding of some sort, and cheese and crackers to finish, topped off with coffee and a digestifs like cognac... None of the courses were huge, but you ended up very well fed! I cannot imagine doing that now - I'd explode! -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#24
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that does sound very different and quite wonderful, Lee
Kate Dicey wrote in message ... Miss Violette wrote: I think at least part of it is cultural and I think another part is preference, and some is health related, for me beer = severe allergic reaction, wine= a migraine at least half the time. I am the type of person who got fat not by eating too much "junk" like cookies but by eating fat on everything and in too big of portions. Our portions in restaurants are actually huge. I recently got the whole wheat pasta from Olive Garden, It was a dollar cheaper to get all you can eat and I was doing core, I had one bowl of minestrone soup, 2 pts, then I had a first serving of pasta, it was a cup and a half, and DH said it was smaller than the regular one serving that he was sure was at least two cups. Now to chain restaurants, Here in the U.S. there are less and less "mom and pop" places, I would never go into a tavern to eat because most of the food is greasy and suspect at best. Don't get me wrong, I will eat at a place that is a restaurant that serves adult beverages just not an adult beverage place that has food, when these are taken out of the mix there are few independents left. now to snacks. I am not a sweet eater by nature, I have no difficulty eating 1 Hershey's kiss, rarely eat salty chip type things. When we make the regular box cake most is thrown away because we both forgot we made it and it is hiding in the cover. I think this is a very valid topic and bears looking at, Lee, who brought home ten ounces of a "small" t-bone the other day Kate Dicey wrote in message ... I think our pubs and yours must be very different. There days here in the UK it's very difficult to make a living out of booze alone, and many people want to take the whole family for an informal lunch. Proper home cooked food is normal in a pub, and ranges from fish & chips through giant Yorkshire puds filled with roast beef and onion gravy to gourmet French restaurant or Thai or Mexican delicacies. There are 'family rooms' where you can take the kids, or you find the whole place is open to kids. Every year a thing called The Good Pub Guide comes out, that will list places as good for families, good food places, tell you the opening times and whether or not they are child friendly. It covers the whole of Britain, and we tend to plan lunch stops on long journeys using it! There are a lot of independent ethnic restaurants as well: in almost every town you will find a decent Italian and Chinese places, and in bigger places there will be a decent vegetarian place too, as well as those serving UK and French based menus. -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#25
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Kara H wrote:
"Miss Violette" wrote: I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a little 'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at that! -Kara. This is my area of curiosity, if you like... Your's is *not* my way, and this is not to say either one is better than the other: I'm just wondering why these differences occur, so why some of us find it easier to switch to the fruit and vegetables we all *know* are better for us than the sugar and salt laden invented snacks and cakes and cookies, even the low fat ones. We can know it in our heads as much as we like, but this doesn't mean we can find it easy to do! Saying to someone who has a severe aversions to vegetables, 'But you *KNOW* this is better for you: just eat them - they are delicious!' just does not work! If we understand better WHY a person is like that, it gets easier to support their excellent efforts and tailor our advice. So, is not eating vegetables a cultural thing (some parts of the world have far fewer vegetables in the diet than others, after all), a family thing (never had them at home as a kid, so isn't used to vegetables on a regular basis), a personal thing (choked on a carrot as a child, and therefore is scared of eating vegetables), or a matter of the way their taste buds are wired (my younger sister had the same food experiences as I did at home, but there are very few vegetables she'll eat just as vegetables! Chuck the same things in a soup or stew, or make coleslaw, and she's happy!)? When I was a student, I had a friend who hated all vegetables until I gave him fresh cooked ones: all he'd ever had before was tinned vegetables! With parents brought up on them during the war in a city area where fresh vegetables were hard to come by, this was all he knew until I widened his horizons. So for him it was based on family culture. I'm not out to knock anyone's choices, though they may strike me as unwise. I'm looking for a greater understanding of why we make those choices, and why it is harder for some to switch to a healthier eating lifestyle than for others. I'm all for finding healthier versions of things, but I'm much more likely to buy a WW cookbook than a box of sticky cakes or a pack of low fat crisp/chips! I'd look at using chicken mince and low fat cooking methods for making Bolognese sauce rather than buying a WW salt laden ready meal version. One of the big differences that make this possible for me is that I work at home and my time is flexible: I can take an hour or two to make cakes and complex recipes during the day and shift my sewing time to the evenings when James is in bed and I get no interruptions from the phone. Folk who are working outside their homes sometimes need to make different choices because they do not have my flexibility. I *am* judgmental: we all are. But I'm looking for an understanding of why we are the way we are, rather than putting my 'Kate knows best' jackboots on and stamping all over everyones sensibilities and cultural differences by telling someone with a fresh veg problem who currently needs those snacks to help them through the day to stop buying the crappy things and wasting their cash on them when fresh veg is cheaper, better for them, and and if they are really hungry in the evening they'd get better food and money value out of a nice 4 point ham sandwich! -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#26
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Willow wrote:
If what you do works for you.. then good for you.. I'd rather have a little treat every day than have a big treat every now and then.. it's a matter of how you want it to work for you.. I do have treats every day - they are just not always food! I don't see that a treat needs to be food. A treat is something that lifts your spirits and makes you feel good about the day. For me it could be a cheese scone with coffee while out, or a new hair decoration, or a fat quarter if a particularly lovely quilt fabric, or a new book, or a CD... An excellent treat for me is an uninterrupted hour with some fabric I already own, a rotary cutter, and the radio tuned to Classic FM. I lost 70 lbs in 9 months, got my blood pressure, cholesterol, sugar level in control and got myself in shape.. and still had cheetos (cheese puffs) every night.. in controlled portions.. it satisfied me, it worked, and it still does.. Excellent! I wish I could lose that fast, but I am a very slow loser: it's taken me 8 months to lose 10 pounds... My total is 40 gone, but it has taken a loooong time! Part of my problem is exercise. I hate most forms as they are so boring, and I'm restricted in what I'm allowed to do because of the fibro: swimming and walking are about it! I try to do my 2 miles 5 days a week, fetching my son home from school, and I try to swim every week, but work can interfere with the best plans! There's different ways to live the program for different people.. Absolutely! And it's those differences that I need to understand. And YES here in the States that portions are big enough for 2 FULL meals.. and no I wouldn't doggie bag certain food.. but other (like chicken breast or fish that I add to a salad later) make good "left overs" and I don't have a dog.. I can see that might work... What works for one person might not at all work for another.. I couldn't eat only vegetables and lean meat and have no treats.. because there's nothing wrong with treats anyway.. food is not the enemy.. Part of my low fat/lean meat/lots of veg regime is imposed by the lack of gall bladder. Even a minor departure can have disastrous and painful consequences! And food is not my enemy either. Naturally, I'm a Nigella Lawson sort of a cook, with sympathy for the Two Fat Ladies! Sometimes it's VERY hard, and sometimes I DO backslide, but not often as paying for it is painful! -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#27
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we all sometimes read extras into comments. I am still working on your
vegetable problem, Lee Kara H wrote in message ... "Miss Violette" wrote: I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a little 'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at that! -Kara. |
#28
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Kara, can you eat popcorn? I was wondering if it counted as a vegetable and
if you could cook it, portion it out and eat it throughout the day. You need to check the portion to equal a vegetable and the points but this might help a bit with variety, and I was also thinking about squash and zucchini, can you or rather have you tried these two raw or just cooked. After reading Ray's post, I was thinking the texture of a squash and zucchini are vastly different in these states and you might be able to sneak them into a salad for a bit of variety, Lee still thinking. Kara H wrote in message ... "Kate Dicey" wrote: The way I see it, all those cakes and and cookies and high fat chips and salted nuts were the things that triggered my over eating, and to break the cycle I needed to get away from them, not find low fat/calorie versions of the danger foods. I needed to form new habits and break old ones rather than needing radical re-education. Well see for me if I had to completely get rid of ALL of those things (which I don't eat much of to begin with) then I would not be able to succeed with the program. I can't do Atkins. I can NOT cut out an entire food group for the sake of losing weight. I don't believe in it and I'm not good at going cold turkey like that. For me, it is MORE productive to eat nearly the same things (but better choices and in smaller amounts) than trying to cut them out all together. What happens is that I do that and then when I come across them again I lose control and eat WAY too much of it!! Again, everyone is different. I can NOT just toss the towel in the air and walk away from all of my old habits. Some people can. I'm lucky because I really *prefer* fruit and vegetables to crisps/chips and their ilk, and always did. Heading for the cupboard and the cookie barrel was habit rather than preference. Now I head for the fridge and hunt in the vegetable drawer... Beware, you raw cauliflower that was supposed to be for Sunday Dinner! Kate's rampaging Saturday night nibble-fest might get you first! Lol. You are lucky in that you prefer them. I'm finding that to be a weak point for me but I eat plenty of fruits with meals. I suppose the cultural thing is as much a family culture as anything Yep, could be. Now I'm heading back in the direction of childhood: 3 decent meals a day and a few healthy snacks to fill the gaps if needed. I find I nibble if bored, so I try to keep busy. I don't always succeed: some days I fail miserably. I'm still learning what my triggers are. TOM triggers carb cravings, and I head for the bread bin! I can swallow half a loaf at a sitting! Rice is another thing I can eat until it's almost coming out my ears! But not potatoes... Funny, that! Depression triggers sugar and chocolate cravings, and so does pain. When the fibro is bad, I want to nibble chocolate cookies and cake all day! That makes sense. I can see the cycle. -Kara. |
#29
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-- Will~ 196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs 89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg "Kate Dicey" wrote in message ... Willow wrote: If what you do works for you.. then good for you.. I'd rather have a little treat every day than have a big treat every now and then.. it's a matter of how you want it to work for you.. I do have treats every day - they are just not always food! I don't see that a treat needs to be food. A treat is something that lifts your spirits and makes you feel good about the day. For me it could be a cheese scone with coffee while out, or a new hair decoration, or a fat quarter if a particularly lovely quilt fabric, or a new book, or a CD... An excellent treat for me is an uninterrupted hour with some fabric I already own, a rotary cutter, and the radio tuned to Classic FM. What I treat myself with often these days is a drive around in the countryside. We just moved north out of San Francisco, Cali.. so it's a different scene around here ! I love Sonoma County ! another non food treat used to be to sit down for a cuddle time with my cats.. haven't done all that much of it Since Belkira's gone.. but still sometimes when River Gaya isn't in a ****y mood *rolls eyes* I lost 70 lbs in 9 months, got my blood pressure, cholesterol, sugar level in control and got myself in shape.. and still had cheetos (cheese puffs) every night.. in controlled portions.. it satisfied me, it worked, and it still does.. Excellent! I wish I could lose that fast, but I am a very slow loser: it's taken me 8 months to lose 10 pounds... My total is 40 gone, but it has taken a loooong time! Part of my problem is exercise. I hate most forms as they are so boring, and I'm restricted in what I'm allowed to do because of the fibro: swimming and walking are about it! I try to do my 2 miles 5 days a week, fetching my son home from school, and I try to swim every week, but work can interfere with the best plans! See that's my strenght actually.. I loooooooooooove to exercise.. I have to be carefull not to do it too much (like I did a few weeks ago and had to stop.. grrr) There's different ways to live the program for different people.. Absolutely! And it's those differences that I need to understand. And YES here in the States that portions are big enough for 2 FULL meals.. and no I wouldn't doggie bag certain food.. but other (like chicken breast or fish that I add to a salad later) make good "left overs" and I don't have a dog.. I can see that might work... You have to either doggie bag or trow away.. it's even worst in the States than in Canada sometimes you have food for a whole family in one plate.. but then Applebee's made a menu for WW and people complained that the portions were too small... DUH... What works for one person might not at all work for another.. I couldn't eat only vegetables and lean meat and have no treats.. because there's nothing wrong with treats anyway.. food is not the enemy.. Part of my low fat/lean meat/lots of veg regime is imposed by the lack of gall bladder. Even a minor departure can have disastrous and painful consequences! And food is not my enemy either. Naturally, I'm a Nigella Lawson sort of a cook, with sympathy for the Two Fat Ladies! Sometimes it's VERY hard, and sometimes I DO backslide, but not often as paying for it is painful! Not cool.. that would slow me down too.. I live on the principle that no food is "off limit" since I don't have any physical "stop signs" and that I can eat whatever I want, but in limited portions.. if I tell myself I can't eat this or that.. that's when I start craving it REALLY BAD.. For exemple I've alway been a chicken wings maniac.. for real.. I LOVED THOSE WINGS.. and ate a lot of them often.. I didn't say I can't have them.. just didn't choose to have them.. but if I'm craving them I can have them... I had about 10 chicken wings in the last 2 years.. same goes for everything.. A normal day for me is about 6 meals.. and 4 snacks.. works for me.. I don't like pastries much.. but I like ice cream and that sort of stuff (it's HOT HERE) so I find low pts alternatives.. mixed with fruits... mmmmmmmmmm *goes downstairs to find a banana and yogurt* -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#30
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-- Will~ 196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs 89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg "Kate Dicey" wrote in message ... Kara H wrote: "Miss Violette" wrote: I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a little 'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at that! -Kara. This is my area of curiosity, if you like... Your's is *not* my way, and this is not to say either one is better than the other: I'm just wondering why these differences occur, so why some of us find it easier to switch to the fruit and vegetables we all *know* are better for us than the sugar and salt laden invented snacks and cakes and cookies, even the low fat ones. That doesn't mean that the snacks are BAD... see that's the idea that I have a hard time with.. the idea that anything that isn't "veggies/fruits/etc" is bad food and should be avoided.. there's no reason for that (unless it's a medical reason)Overdoing them can be bad for your system.. but in moderation there's nothing bad about them.. even the high fat ones at that.. as long as you control the portions and don't overdo it.. having a snicker bar isn't a sin or anything.. food is NOT the enemy... if it doesn't send you on a binge... if you don't have any medical reason to avoid those.. why worry about it ? We can know it in our heads as much as we like, but this doesn't mean we can find it easy to do! Saying to someone who has a severe aversions to vegetables, 'But you *KNOW* this is better for you: just eat them - they are delicious!' just does not work! If we understand better WHY a person is like that, it gets easier to support their excellent efforts and tailor our advice. So, is not eating vegetables a cultural thing (some parts of the world have far fewer vegetables in the diet than others, after all), a family thing (never had them at home as a kid, so isn't used to vegetables on a regular basis), a personal thing (choked on a carrot as a child, and therefore is scared of eating vegetables), or a matter of the way their taste buds are wired (my younger sister had the same food experiences as I did at home, but there are very few vegetables she'll eat just as vegetables! Chuck the same things in a soup or stew, or make coleslaw, and she's happy!)? When I was a student, I had a friend who hated all vegetables until I gave him fresh cooked ones: all he'd ever had before was tinned vegetables! With parents brought up on them during the war in a city area where fresh vegetables were hard to come by, this was all he knew until I widened his horizons. So for him it was based on family culture. I'm not out to knock anyone's choices, though they may strike me as unwise. I'm looking for a greater understanding of why we make those choices, and why it is harder for some to switch to a healthier eating lifestyle than for others. I'm all for finding healthier versions of things, but I'm much more likely to buy a WW cookbook than a box of sticky cakes or a pack of low fat crisp/chips! I'd look at using chicken mince and low fat cooking methods for making Bolognese sauce rather than buying a WW salt laden ready meal version. One of the big differences that make this possible for me is that I work at home and my time is flexible: I can take an hour or two to make cakes and complex recipes during the day and shift my sewing time to the evenings when James is in bed and I get no interruptions from the phone. Folk who are working outside their homes sometimes need to make different choices because they do not have my flexibility. I *am* judgmental: we all are. But I'm looking for an understanding of why we are the way we are, rather than putting my 'Kate knows best' jackboots on and stamping all over everyones sensibilities and cultural differences by telling someone with a fresh veg problem who currently needs those snacks to help them through the day to stop buying the crappy things and wasting their cash on them when fresh veg is cheaper, better for them, and and if they are really hungry in the evening they'd get better food and money value out of a nice 4 point ham sandwich! -- Kate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
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