A Weightloss and diet forum. WeightLossBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » WeightLossBanter forum » alt.support.diet newsgroups » Low Carbohydrate Diets
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Weight loss is just the start!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 27th, 2012, 10:36 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default Weight loss is just the start!

Dogman quoted:

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/0...ust-the-start/

"In the month since I started, I’ve lost twelve pounds so far. The
most remarkable thing for me, though–-and I wasn’t really expecting
it–-is that after the first week of being completely grain-free, I
have not had a single headache of any kind, and I have been a migraine
sufferer since my teens. For the first time in years, I did not refill
my prescription for Imitrex.


I started Atkins in 1999 using the yellow cover 1993 edition just before
the blue cover 1999 edition came out. In it I read his claims that low
carbing stops migraines. At the time I'd been getting a debilitating
migraine every few months much of my adult life. Many had them far more
often so I'd considered myself lucky on that count. I also dismissed
his claims as marketing hype. But sure enough since the day I started
I've had exactly one debilitating migraine and that was a month of high
stress work living out of junk food vending machines. These days my
adherence to low carb is very poor so most of my weight is back but the
lessons I learned have resulted in several other health improvements
that appear permanent. Not getting migraines is one of those
improvements.

"If stopping wheat had done nothing for me but get rid of the
migraines, it would be worth it for that alone.


The one migraine I've had since 1999 was during a month I probably
managed to stay wheat free even though I ate mostly junk food. Low
wheat at least. For me at least the trigger was something other than
wheat specifically. I ate a ton of potato chips and fritos that month.
Ugh.

But my chronic
annoying post-nasal drip and constant allergy symptoms have also
disappeared; I’ve stopped needing a nap in the middle of the day; I’ve
stopped having any food cravings. I have also been able to stop taking
omeprazole for GERD–-no digestion problems whatsoever now. My energy
levels are much higher throughout the day, and a lot of small daily
aches and pains–-especially arthritis in my hands and fingers–-have
disappeared."


For me the allergy symptoms were mostly related to wheat. So specific
my symptoms are triggered by kanut and spelt but not by rye, barly or
oats. The cravings for me were a mix of binge being one of my wheat
symptoms and lack of cravings from low carb but it took a lot of self
experimentation to figure that out. The best known way to reduce
arthritis pains is paleo that combines wheat free with mildly low carb.

"I’ve read some criticisms from various sources of Dr. Davis’s book,
but I am not a scientist and for me, the proof is, as they say, in the
milk-free pudding: I’ve never tried any eating plan or diet that has
truly made the kind of remarkable improvement in my health and
well-being that this one has, and it was reading Wheat Belly that
inspired me to give it a try.

"To any skeptics I would simply say, it’s a simple enough experiment.
Try it for a couple of weeks. See what happens."


It does work, but I do note that for me different details worked for
different reasons. Atkins has two widely different aspects - using
carbs as a tool and an eliminate-and-challenge system. Few follow the
instructions to that level so simpler shotgun methods work for more
people.
  #12  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:02 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default Weight loss is just the start!

wrote:

Well, the very website that you constantly keep ... posting links to ...

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2011/1...ick-and-dirty/

Eliminate:
All wheat-based products (all breads, all breakfast cereals, noodles,
pasta, bagels, muffins, pancakes, waffles, donuts, pretzels,
crackers), oat products (oatmeal, oat bran), cornstarch-based products
(sauces or gravies thickened with cornstarch, prepared or processed
foods containing cornstarch, cornmeal products like chips, tacos,
tortillas), sugary soft drinks, candies

Enjoy unlimited:
Non-wheat grains-ground flaxseed, chia seeds


To me this looks like what he means by "wheat" is actually all cereal
grains. Not much of a down side to avoided all serial grains.

Cheeses—real cultured cheeses only (not Velveeta or single-slice
processed cheese)


Recently American cheese in individual slice packages went from cheese
to "pasteurized cheese product". Kraft, Borden and local brands. I
figure the local brands are prbably made by Kraft and/or Borden. It
looks like over time they made the formula worse and worse until it no
longer legally qualified to be called cheese. On the other hand the
large five pound blocks that come as presliced but still all in the same
block still count as cheese.

What's creapy is Country Crock. if you like margarine read the label of
Country Crock some type. It's so horrible they can't even legally call
it margarine.

Minimize bananas, pineapples, mangoes, and grapes


Dates, too.

Sure looks very similar to Atkins, South Beach or many other
LC, reduced carb diets.


Agreed.
  #13  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:14 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:54:56 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 27, 2:56*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:03:38 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 27, 1:27*pm, Dogman wrote:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/0...ust-the-start/


"In the month since I started, I ve lost twelve pounds so far. The
most remarkable thing for me, though -and I wasn t really expecting
it -is that after the first week of being completely grain-free,


I'll bet it's not just grain free, but actually that it's a LC
diet,


And you know this...how, exactly, Dr. Carnac?

crickets


Well, the very website that you constantly keep boring us with
and posting links to, as if it were some great new discovery:

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2011/1...ick-and-dirty/

[...]
Sure looks very similar to Atkins, South Beach or many other
LC, reduced carb diets.


Yes, the Davis diet is low-carb, but the guy whose anecdote we're
discussing, says NADA about being on a low-carb diet. He eliminated
wheat (all grains, actually), and ate only "whole, fresh foods as much
as possible." I don't know exactly what he means by that, and neither
do you, Dr. Carnac. (He also implies that's he's tried low-carb diets
before, and didn't enjoy these same benefits.) But many others on his
web site have simply eliminated wheat. Period. And got similar
results.

You can read the testimonials for yourself.

I've never heard of anyone losing just 12 pounds and ridding
themselves of migraines, GERD, post-nasal drip, allergies, arthritis
in his hands and fingers, etc. (He also implies that's he's tried
low-carb diets before, and didn't enjoy these same benefits.)

But you have no idea what wheat may be doing to your blood sugars
because you don't TEST.


That's right. Just like so many others that I've seen here
in the newsgroup the last decade that are not diabetic, I
do LC without testing my BG. It has never even been
discussed as some kind of requirement, until you showed
up.


No one talked about low-carb until Dr. Atkins "showed up," eh?

And I've never said that it is a requirement. That's just another one
of your many straw men. Really, you are to straw men what Saudi Arabia
is to oil.

You also have no idea what effects wheat may be having on YOU, because
you've never known life without wheat.

And over time, elevated blood sugars can cause diabetes, elevated
LDL-P counts, heart attacks, strokes, fibromyalgia, blindness, etc.

As I reflected in a previous post, millions of people with diabetes do
NOT know they have diabetes.

They, not unlike yourself, prefer to unscrew the engine warning lights
in their "cars."

Good luck with that!

Gee, and I still eat some wheat. *Imagine that!


That's your choice, of course, but others may decide to pursue a much
different way of eating. A healthier way of eating.


I have a couple slices of Pepperidge farms CarbStyle bread,
with a whopping 5g of carb per slice and it's unhealthy?


That basically depends on what it does to your blood glucose levels,
and how often it does it, and for how long you allow it to go on.
Since you don't have a clue (in more ways than one, eh?), you have no
idea whether it's unhealthy for you or not, which, I understand, is
how you prefer it.

Healthier according to whom? You?


I've answered that question already.

"The same guy that
says HIV is harmless? The guy that says HIV doesn't cause
AIDS? The guy that claims no virus can cause cancer?
Given what you think is sound science, why would anyone listen
to you?


Well, if they want to PREVENT disease, I'm a pretty good guy to listen
to.

On the other hand, if they'd rather take drugs, get injected on a
daily basis, die prematurely, suffer illness, spend a good part of
their lives in doctors' offices, etc., "You da man!"

Do you have to shill multiple times a *day for the wheat
belly book?


Do you have to shill multiple times a day for a very, very sloppy way
of low-carb eating? Or for BigPharma? Or for ADM? Or for AIDS, Inc?


I'm not the one starting post after post here,


So what? You can't even make a post without mentioning AIDS.

You've effectively been reduced to a one-trick pony.

And I get a big kick out of that!

many of them about this wheat belly crap.


And the best part of that?

You can't do a freakin' thing about it!

And I'm not the one with the compelling need
to have the last say on virtually every topic.


Me neither, but I'm willing to respond to questions, etc., and as long
as someone has one, I'll take a crack at it.

But most importantly, I'm more than willing to keep kicking you in the
teeth each time you gnaw on my ankles. I consider it a moral
obligation, in fact.

Go back and look at
who
has started most of the posts for the last few months and who ends
almost
every one.


I've started most of them, of course. But then, I can't force anyone
to introduce a subject or post information here, so...

It didn't used to be like that, until you showed up.


Yeah, it was mostly DEAD here. And you probably had a hand in KILLING
it.

And that's probably what you'd prefer.

Well, guess again.

Asshole.

......................./´¯/)
.....................,/¯../
..................../..../
............../´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
.........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
.........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
..........\.................'...../
...........''...\.......... _.·´
.............\..............(
...............\.............\...

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #14  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:28 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:04:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
So, James, you can take these n-1 experiments as far as you want, and
then see what happens to YOU, or you can decide to wait around for the
perfect "study." You took a plunge once and went low-carb. It
apparently produced dividends for YOU. Which "study" was it that gave
you the confidence to try low-carb?


There are studies as you very well know.

The anecdote is the weakest form of scientific evidence but humans have
evolved to consider it to be the strongest form of evidence. Curious, no?

The problems with n=1 anecdotes are placebo effects, confounding factors
that may not have been measured, false attribution, simple errors, etc. A randomized study with
proper controls tends to minimize all of those.- Hide quoted text -


And of course the most relevant study regarding diet and wheat would
be the one that the anecdotal case above is almost certainly NOT on.
That
would be the one where you simply eliminate wheat and replace
it with similar carbs, eg corn, rice, potato, etc. If that study
shows
a weight loss, then I'm cool with the term "wheat belly". If it fails
to
show any significant difference, then I say it's a bogus term because
the effect is not unique to wheat. If you look at what Davis
actually
recommends as a diet, it's actually LC or reduced carb, cutting out
most refined carbs, not just wheat.


If you read through the testimonials, you'd have seen where many
people did *exactly* what you're describing. They eliminated wheat and
replaced it with carb-equivalent amounts of corn, rice, etc. (although
they didn't always control for GI).

Yep, they lost more weight, felt a lot better, and enjoyed many new,
and unexpected health benefits.

Does everyone enjoy these same benefits? No one knows.

PS: No one gives a **** whether you're "cool" with the term "wheat
belly" or not.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #15  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:35 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!


On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:19:55 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Yes, carefully controlled experiments are capable of teasing out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations.


James, have you found that low-carb "study" yet? The one where they
used "carefully controlled experiments [that] teas[ed] out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations" yet?

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #16  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:45 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Sep 27, 4:29*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:05:49 -0300, James Warren

wrote:

[...]





There's ZERO downside to performing this experiment on yourself,
because wheat doesn't provide you with anything that you can't get
from other, HEALTHIER food sources. Whether you choose to test your
blood sugars, or LDL-P levels, too, during this period of time, is
another matter altogether. The guy in the post above apparently didn't
go that far, but he still got rid of his migraines, food cravings,
GERD, pain in his hands and fingers, post-nasal drip, allergies, and
he got off of some drugs. Quite a reward, I'd say.


So, James, you can take these n-1 experiments as far as you want, and
then see what happens to YOU, or you can decide to wait around for the
perfect "study." You took a plunge once and went low-carb. It
apparently produced dividends for YOU. Which "study" was it that gave
you the confidence to try low-carb?


There are studies as you very well know.


Yeah, but which one convinced you to try it? Surely you must have that
one on the tip of your tongue, eh?

The anecdote is the weakest form of scientific evidence


There is nothing scientific about anecdotes. There's also nothing
scientific about many (maybe most) "studies."

And unless you truly understand the Scientific Method (and most
scientists do not, and virtually no layperson does, and many of the
writers/designers of these "studies" rely on that),



This coming from the guy who claims he's one of the few
that understands the "scientific method" and he's used the
"scientific method" to figure out that:

HIV is harmless
HIV isn't the cause of AIDS
AIDS is caused by poor diet
No virus can cause cancer.


Nuff said.....








  #17  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:49 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:36:38 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

Dogman quoted:

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/0...ust-the-start/

"In the month since I started, I’ve lost twelve pounds so far. The
most remarkable thing for me, though–-and I wasn’t really expecting
it–-is that after the first week of being completely grain-free, I
have not had a single headache of any kind, and I have been a migraine
sufferer since my teens. For the first time in years, I did not refill
my prescription for Imitrex.


I started Atkins in 1999 using the yellow cover 1993 edition just before
the blue cover 1999 edition came out. In it I read his claims that low
carbing stops migraines.


It certainly can. But so can a lot of things:

How Patrick Vlaskovits Discovered His Migraines Were Due to Wheat
http://blog.sethroberts.net/2012/08/...-due-to-wheat/

Which is why n=1 experiments are capable of winnowing out the culprit.

Be it wheat, low-carb, or:

"The commonest foods causing [migraines] were wheat (78%), orange
(65%), eggs (45%), tea and coffee (40% each), chocolate and milk (37%)
each), beef (35%), and corn, cane sugar, and yeast (33% each)."

Even low levels of magnesium can cause migraines. And, of course,
there are probably many other triggers, too.

The best known way to reduce
arthritis pains is paleo that combines wheat free with mildly low carb.

[...]

Low-carb paleo, in my opinion, is exactly the way to eat, if overall
health is as important to you as weight loss, weight maintenance, etc.


--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #18  
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:53 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 15:45:38 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
The anecdote is the weakest form of scientific evidence


There is nothing scientific about anecdotes. There's also nothing
scientific about many (maybe most) "studies."

And unless you truly understand the Scientific Method (and most
scientists do not, and virtually no layperson does, and many of the
writers/designers of these "studies" rely on that),



This coming from the guy who claims he's one of the few
that understands the "scientific method" and he's used the
"scientific method" to figure out that:

HIV is harmless
HIV isn't the cause of AIDS
AIDS is caused by poor diet
No virus can cause cancer.


EXACTLY! Thanks for finally acknowledging it, Trader Boy!

Maybe one day, you, too, will "figure it out."

I kid! I kid! I kid!

......................./´¯/)
.....................,/¯../
..................../..../
............../´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
.........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
.........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
..........\.................'...../
...........''...\.......... _.·´
.............\..............(
...............\.............\...


--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #19  
Old September 28th, 2012, 02:41 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
James Warren[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On 27/09/2012 7:35 PM, Dogman wrote:

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:19:55 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Yes, carefully controlled experiments are capable of teasing out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations.


James, have you found that low-carb "study" yet? The one where they
used "carefully controlled experiments [that] teas[ed] out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations" yet?


You claim to champion the scientific method yet you hold in high esteem
anecdotes and testimonials. Your understanding of the scientific method
is suspect.

--
-jw
  #20  
Old September 28th, 2012, 03:41 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Weight loss is just the start!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 22:41:17 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

On 27/09/2012 7:35 PM, Dogman wrote:

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:19:55 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Yes, carefully controlled experiments are capable of teasing out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations.


James, have you found that low-carb "study" yet? The one where they
used "carefully controlled experiments [that] teas[ed] out what
effects are caused by what uninfluenced by idiosyncratic individual
variations" yet?


You claim to champion the scientific method yet you hold in high esteem
anecdotes and testimonials. Your understanding of the scientific method
is suspect.


So, in other words, James, you just can't seem to find that low-carb
"study" that made you try it, right?

The one where they used "carefully controlled experiments [that]
teas[ed] out what effects are caused by what uninfluenced by
idiosyncratic individual variations" yet?

I didn't think so.

I also think that speaks volumes about you.

Yes, I champion the scientific method, and so should everyone. I also
hold all kinds of information in high esteem. No, I don't sit on my
hands all day, frozen in time, waiting for "studies" that may or may
not ever come along, I use what information I have available to me.

Then, just like Sherlock Holmes might do, I deduce. And what I deduce
about your latest performance is that you're still a TROLL.

Some things never change.

So back in the bozo bin you go.

Bub bye.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stop dieting...start eating....and start living ! Jessica[_3_] Low Carbohydrate Diets 0 March 10th, 2009 10:07 PM
This should jump-start my weight-loss again (long-winded) Ernst Primer Low Carbohydrate Diets 3 November 18th, 2005 06:06 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2018 WeightLossBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.