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_Keeping it off_ book



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 8th, 2004, 10:42 PM
marengo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ignoramus13725 wrote:

They are all very aware
| of their current weight and they actively manage it.

snip

They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
| place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
| has been getting a tad better later.

This seems contradictory to me. In reality, food has become even more of an
obsession, only in a different way. If they are "very aware of their
current weight and actively mange it," they are still not able to live a
"normal" life without obsessing about what they eat. This is where I am
right now also; I hope that the day will come when I don't have to be "very
aware of my current weight and actively manage it;" unfortunately, I believe
that for many of us it's a lifetime of having to pay abnormabl attention to
what we eat.

--
Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html


  #2  
Old September 9th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Cubit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Great stuff. I felt the summary probably covered everything I needed, but I
bought a copy anyway, just in case the summary webpage goes away.

Amazon used books were too pricey, but I found a hardback copy on eBay for
$3.50 plus $2 shipping.

my ended eBay purchase: http://tinyurl.com/6ny8e

I'm concerned that I too spend too much time focusing on my diet. Maybe
that will change, when I'm no longer restricting my calories to a 1400 per
day average. Someday, 1600 per day should be much more comfortable.


"Ignoramus13725" wrote in message
...
I am reading a book _Keeping it Off_ by Robert Colvin and Susan
Olson. This is an old book from 1985, I bought it used from Amazon.

The book is excellent and a summary of it is available at

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/success.htm

The book is a great read and I highly recommend it. It describes what
is common amongst successful maintainers, which are defined as people who

- lost over 20% of body weight
- kept it off for 2 years
- are not more than 5 lbs away from their lowest weight

The discuss the traits amongst those successful people, how they think
about weight loss, what they do, what they do not do etc.

There are very few books about weight maintenance, probably because so
few people can get to the point where they need to maintain weight,
and even fewer of them actually maintain the loss. According to
authors, only 2% of those who started dieting can maintain
successfully for 2 years.

Unfortunately, the authors are psychologists, and looked at those
successful dieters from only psychological point of view. (I am not
done with the book yet). I wish they tried to look at the somatic
differences, if any, between successful and unsuccessful dieters.

It also does not do a good enough job at comparing those successful
people with controls who have not managed to be as successful. So,
they could fall into a trap of describing their common traits that did
not make a difference. Both of them had prior clinical experience with
"treating" obese dieters, with little (average) success, so,
hopefully, they could detect those success traits based on their
experience.

All in all, it is a great common sense book that describes what works.

The great majority of maintainers lost weight on their own, not on
any sort of commercial programs. All of them had an epiphany at some
point, which has been my experience exactly. They are all very aware
of their current weight and they actively manage it. Again, my
experience. They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
has been getting a tad better later.


i



  #3  
Old September 9th, 2004, 09:40 PM
Jenny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default _Keeping it off_ book

Ig,

Reading that book (which I found in our public library) really helped me.
Though the focus is on the psychology, there's quite a bit on the
physiology, too.

It was interesting to me that the successful dieters lost weight on all
kinds of different regimens and diets, but that the researchers found the
common threads no matter what the food plan.

I also found it helpful to see that contrary to what the people selling gym
memberships tell you, exercise was helpful mostly after the weight was lost,
and it was not necessary for the weight loss to occur. Most women started
exercising after losing a lot of weight (like I did) and did very well.

I know so many people at the gym who work out four times a week and have
only lost 2 or 3 pounds all year (these are people who need to lose 30 or 40
lbs.) So I liked having it made clear that exercise is NOT the magic bullet
for weight loss, calorie restriction is. I also found it interesting to
look at the calorie levels at which people lost and maintained no matter
WHAT diet.

It's worth remembering that the book was written back when low carbing was
just going out of fashion so many of the long term diet success stories in
the book were low carbers.
--
Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Ignoramus13725" wrote in message
...
I am reading a book _Keeping it Off_ by Robert Colvin and Susan
Olson. This is an old book from 1985, I bought it used from Amazon.

The book is excellent and a summary of it is available at

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/success.htm

The book is a great read and I highly recommend it. It describes what
is common amongst successful maintainers, which are defined as people who

- lost over 20% of body weight
- kept it off for 2 years
- are not more than 5 lbs away from their lowest weight

The discuss the traits amongst those successful people, how they think
about weight loss, what they do, what they do not do etc.

There are very few books about weight maintenance, probably because so
few people can get to the point where they need to maintain weight,
and even fewer of them actually maintain the loss. According to
authors, only 2% of those who started dieting can maintain
successfully for 2 years.

Unfortunately, the authors are psychologists, and looked at those
successful dieters from only psychological point of view. (I am not
done with the book yet). I wish they tried to look at the somatic
differences, if any, between successful and unsuccessful dieters.

It also does not do a good enough job at comparing those successful
people with controls who have not managed to be as successful. So,
they could fall into a trap of describing their common traits that did
not make a difference. Both of them had prior clinical experience with
"treating" obese dieters, with little (average) success, so,
hopefully, they could detect those success traits based on their
experience.

All in all, it is a great common sense book that describes what works.

The great majority of maintainers lost weight on their own, not on
any sort of commercial programs. All of them had an epiphany at some
point, which has been my experience exactly. They are all very aware
of their current weight and they actively manage it. Again, my
experience. They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
has been getting a tad better later.


i



  #4  
Old September 9th, 2004, 09:40 PM
Jenny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ig,

Reading that book (which I found in our public library) really helped me.
Though the focus is on the psychology, there's quite a bit on the
physiology, too.

It was interesting to me that the successful dieters lost weight on all
kinds of different regimens and diets, but that the researchers found the
common threads no matter what the food plan.

I also found it helpful to see that contrary to what the people selling gym
memberships tell you, exercise was helpful mostly after the weight was lost,
and it was not necessary for the weight loss to occur. Most women started
exercising after losing a lot of weight (like I did) and did very well.

I know so many people at the gym who work out four times a week and have
only lost 2 or 3 pounds all year (these are people who need to lose 30 or 40
lbs.) So I liked having it made clear that exercise is NOT the magic bullet
for weight loss, calorie restriction is. I also found it interesting to
look at the calorie levels at which people lost and maintained no matter
WHAT diet.

It's worth remembering that the book was written back when low carbing was
just going out of fashion so many of the long term diet success stories in
the book were low carbers.
--
Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Ignoramus13725" wrote in message
...
I am reading a book _Keeping it Off_ by Robert Colvin and Susan
Olson. This is an old book from 1985, I bought it used from Amazon.

The book is excellent and a summary of it is available at

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/success.htm

The book is a great read and I highly recommend it. It describes what
is common amongst successful maintainers, which are defined as people who

- lost over 20% of body weight
- kept it off for 2 years
- are not more than 5 lbs away from their lowest weight

The discuss the traits amongst those successful people, how they think
about weight loss, what they do, what they do not do etc.

There are very few books about weight maintenance, probably because so
few people can get to the point where they need to maintain weight,
and even fewer of them actually maintain the loss. According to
authors, only 2% of those who started dieting can maintain
successfully for 2 years.

Unfortunately, the authors are psychologists, and looked at those
successful dieters from only psychological point of view. (I am not
done with the book yet). I wish they tried to look at the somatic
differences, if any, between successful and unsuccessful dieters.

It also does not do a good enough job at comparing those successful
people with controls who have not managed to be as successful. So,
they could fall into a trap of describing their common traits that did
not make a difference. Both of them had prior clinical experience with
"treating" obese dieters, with little (average) success, so,
hopefully, they could detect those success traits based on their
experience.

All in all, it is a great common sense book that describes what works.

The great majority of maintainers lost weight on their own, not on
any sort of commercial programs. All of them had an epiphany at some
point, which has been my experience exactly. They are all very aware
of their current weight and they actively manage it. Again, my
experience. They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
has been getting a tad better later.


i



  #5  
Old September 11th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Jenny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ig,

Since the book was written when low carb was going out of fashion and looked
at people who had lost weight many years in the past and kept it off, many
of their dieters were low carbers (including, for example, all those on
plans like Weight Watchers which was low carb back then).

No one in their right minds would have done a high carb, low fat diet in the
1970s since we all knew back then that bread and potatoes and cookies make
you fat, whether with butter or not!

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , Jenny wrote:
Ig,

Reading that book (which I found in our public library) really helped

me.
Though the focus is on the psychology, there's quite a bit on the
physiology, too.


First of all, thanks for posting a review of that book that prompted
me to buy it.

There is not that much regarding physiology, in it. I personally
prefer to look at physiology because solutions in that area are more
concrete and can be evaluated. Psychology is more nebulous.

It was interesting to me that the successful dieters lost weight on all
kinds of different regimens and diets, but that the researchers found

the
common threads no matter what the food plan.


Yes. I liked that they mostly were absolutist regarding giving up
sugar. I was quite disconcerted by their conclusion that they were
almost all lowfatting, which would be a diet that I would not enjoy at
all.

I also found it helpful to see that contrary to what the people
selling gym memberships tell you, exercise was helpful mostly after
the weight was lost, and it was not necessary for the weight loss to
occur. Most women started exercising after losing a lot of weight
(like I did) and did very well.


But, Jenny, men started much earlier, I started walking in the first
days after my epiphany.

I know so many people at the gym who work out four times a week and have
only lost 2 or 3 pounds all year (these are people who need to lose 30

or 40
lbs.) So I liked having it made clear that exercise is NOT the magic

bullet
for weight loss, calorie restriction is. I also found it interesting to
look at the calorie levels at which people lost and maintained no matter
WHAT diet.


to me, exercise is a way to keep good mood, eat extra food, and feel
good and look good.

It's worth remembering that the book was written back when low carbing

was
just going out of fashion so many of the long term diet success stories

in
the book were low carbers.


low fatters?

I am reading a book _Keeping it Off_ by Robert Colvin and Susan
Olson. This is an old book from 1985, I bought it used from Amazon.

The book is excellent and a summary of it is available at

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/success.htm

The book is a great read and I highly recommend it. It describes what
is common amongst successful maintainers, which are defined as people

who

- lost over 20% of body weight
- kept it off for 2 years
- are not more than 5 lbs away from their lowest weight

The discuss the traits amongst those successful people, how they think
about weight loss, what they do, what they do not do etc.

There are very few books about weight maintenance, probably because so
few people can get to the point where they need to maintain weight,
and even fewer of them actually maintain the loss. According to
authors, only 2% of those who started dieting can maintain
successfully for 2 years.

Unfortunately, the authors are psychologists, and looked at those
successful dieters from only psychological point of view. (I am not
done with the book yet). I wish they tried to look at the somatic
differences, if any, between successful and unsuccessful dieters.

It also does not do a good enough job at comparing those successful
people with controls who have not managed to be as successful. So,
they could fall into a trap of describing their common traits that did
not make a difference. Both of them had prior clinical experience with
"treating" obese dieters, with little (average) success, so,
hopefully, they could detect those success traits based on their
experience.

All in all, it is a great common sense book that describes what works.

The great majority of maintainers lost weight on their own, not on
any sort of commercial programs. All of them had an epiphany at some
point, which has been my experience exactly. They are all very aware
of their current weight and they actively manage it. Again, my
experience. They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
has been getting a tad better later.


i





  #6  
Old September 11th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Jenny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ig,

Since the book was written when low carb was going out of fashion and looked
at people who had lost weight many years in the past and kept it off, many
of their dieters were low carbers (including, for example, all those on
plans like Weight Watchers which was low carb back then).

No one in their right minds would have done a high carb, low fat diet in the
1970s since we all knew back then that bread and potatoes and cookies make
you fat, whether with butter or not!

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , Jenny wrote:
Ig,

Reading that book (which I found in our public library) really helped

me.
Though the focus is on the psychology, there's quite a bit on the
physiology, too.


First of all, thanks for posting a review of that book that prompted
me to buy it.

There is not that much regarding physiology, in it. I personally
prefer to look at physiology because solutions in that area are more
concrete and can be evaluated. Psychology is more nebulous.

It was interesting to me that the successful dieters lost weight on all
kinds of different regimens and diets, but that the researchers found

the
common threads no matter what the food plan.


Yes. I liked that they mostly were absolutist regarding giving up
sugar. I was quite disconcerted by their conclusion that they were
almost all lowfatting, which would be a diet that I would not enjoy at
all.

I also found it helpful to see that contrary to what the people
selling gym memberships tell you, exercise was helpful mostly after
the weight was lost, and it was not necessary for the weight loss to
occur. Most women started exercising after losing a lot of weight
(like I did) and did very well.


But, Jenny, men started much earlier, I started walking in the first
days after my epiphany.

I know so many people at the gym who work out four times a week and have
only lost 2 or 3 pounds all year (these are people who need to lose 30

or 40
lbs.) So I liked having it made clear that exercise is NOT the magic

bullet
for weight loss, calorie restriction is. I also found it interesting to
look at the calorie levels at which people lost and maintained no matter
WHAT diet.


to me, exercise is a way to keep good mood, eat extra food, and feel
good and look good.

It's worth remembering that the book was written back when low carbing

was
just going out of fashion so many of the long term diet success stories

in
the book were low carbers.


low fatters?

I am reading a book _Keeping it Off_ by Robert Colvin and Susan
Olson. This is an old book from 1985, I bought it used from Amazon.

The book is excellent and a summary of it is available at

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/success.htm

The book is a great read and I highly recommend it. It describes what
is common amongst successful maintainers, which are defined as people

who

- lost over 20% of body weight
- kept it off for 2 years
- are not more than 5 lbs away from their lowest weight

The discuss the traits amongst those successful people, how they think
about weight loss, what they do, what they do not do etc.

There are very few books about weight maintenance, probably because so
few people can get to the point where they need to maintain weight,
and even fewer of them actually maintain the loss. According to
authors, only 2% of those who started dieting can maintain
successfully for 2 years.

Unfortunately, the authors are psychologists, and looked at those
successful dieters from only psychological point of view. (I am not
done with the book yet). I wish they tried to look at the somatic
differences, if any, between successful and unsuccessful dieters.

It also does not do a good enough job at comparing those successful
people with controls who have not managed to be as successful. So,
they could fall into a trap of describing their common traits that did
not make a difference. Both of them had prior clinical experience with
"treating" obese dieters, with little (average) success, so,
hopefully, they could detect those success traits based on their
experience.

All in all, it is a great common sense book that describes what works.

The great majority of maintainers lost weight on their own, not on
any sort of commercial programs. All of them had an epiphany at some
point, which has been my experience exactly. They are all very aware
of their current weight and they actively manage it. Again, my
experience. They moved away from food obsessions and food takes little
place in their life, which I cannot say yet about myself, although it
has been getting a tad better later.


i





  #7  
Old September 12th, 2004, 12:07 AM
Lictor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
...
Maybe that is true, but that's not what the book says. It pretty much
said that the winners' strategy, in their words, is to drop as much
sugar and as much fat as possible.


Yes, that was the traditionnal way of doing diets in the old days... That's
actually what many generalists still advice nowadays in France. Drop sugars
and fats, then each doctor adds his peculiar obsession (drop pasta, drop red
meat, drop coffee, add vegetables, eat more breakfast...) to that framework.
Though the summary seems to point to the fact that the diet itself was not
really the important factor in the success or not of these dieters.


  #8  
Old September 12th, 2004, 12:07 AM
Lictor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
...
Maybe that is true, but that's not what the book says. It pretty much
said that the winners' strategy, in their words, is to drop as much
sugar and as much fat as possible.


Yes, that was the traditionnal way of doing diets in the old days... That's
actually what many generalists still advice nowadays in France. Drop sugars
and fats, then each doctor adds his peculiar obsession (drop pasta, drop red
meat, drop coffee, add vegetables, eat more breakfast...) to that framework.
Though the summary seems to point to the fact that the diet itself was not
really the important factor in the success or not of these dieters.


  #9  
Old September 12th, 2004, 05:23 AM
Lictor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
...
My personal opinion, is that what it points out, is the possibility
that likely most of the interviewed persons did not have metabolic
syndrome/diabetes.


Well, people with diabete are still a minority, thankfully. I don't know how
many obeses also have a metabolic syndrom, and how much of their obesity can
be linked to it. You also have to consider that weight loss, at least for
some people, can reduce the metabolic syndrom to such an extent that it is
no longer a problem past the first few pounds. Even with diabete, weight
loss is very effective for some. My FBG returned to high normal within a
month of losing weight for instance. Right now, if I had not been tested
before, I would pass most casual diabete screenings (A1c, FBG) without even
registering as pre-diabetic. Of course, that would show on a GTT, but
they're rarely used nowadays.
It's quite possible that for some of these people with metabolical syndrom,
rapid weight loss put them into a range where insulin resistance was low
enough to allow maintainance.

It's not that I think that metabolic disorder people cannot lose
weight at all, but I don't think that a low fat diet is what would
work for many of them.


There is a whole world between no fat and no carb I still think these
people could lose on a traditional diet (i.e. a well established cultural
diet, not one designed by a doctor) with basic portion control. The
integrist low fat diet (all fats=bad, less than 25% calories from fats) is
so abnormal that it's a wonder people actually managed to lose on it (and
stay healthy).

Now, I know, that you consider yourself a counterexample, a diabetic
who became obese because of psychological issues that you are now
addressing, but, I don't think that you are on a low fat diet.


Indeed, my diet is getting closer to the traditionnal French diet, with a
few exceptions (I should drink more wine ). It's certainly not low fat (I
eat quite a lot of nuts lately, along with olive oil and walnut oil and some
butter) and it's not high carb either. Some days are higher carbs than
others too.
Today was a rather high carb day for instance, but this might be linked to
increased exercise yesterday. I just bought a cardiometer [tr?] to use
bio-feedback for meditation, but I also use it for exercising. As a result,
I have added bursts of sprinting to my power-walking (heart going at 140bpm
on average [75% max], peaks at 167 [90% max]), for one hour yesterday and
half an hour today. This certainly felt great, but I did some serious
sweating as a result, and this did raise hunger quite a bit, and craving for
carbs (I guess glycogen stores were quite empty). But I don't really
exercise with the intent to lose weight, the goal is to improve my insulin
resistance.
I would actually say I'm a psychological obese who got diabetic because of
the excess weight (and total sedentarity during the past few years).
Diabete probably helped me put on weight so quickly in the past years, but
only because I was eating an insane amount of food. The fact that my FBG and
A1c are going down through pure weight loss and exercise and not too much
diet seems to hint to that. Likewise, the fact that I have experienced
little reactive hypoglycemia (except when I was using Prandin), and that
what hypoglycemia I have experienced made me nauseous, make it difficult for
me to blame the overeating on it.
I seem to lose weight about as easily as I put it on, it's really totally
symetric there. That's also something I share with my father, and maybe my
grandfather on my mother's side. Men in the familly (both sides) also build
muscles as easily (people often think wrongly that my father is into
bodybuilding), and it seems I have inherited that trait (I was always quite
muscular, even under the fat). So, it's really a matter of pushing the body
in the right direction, and being so sedentary certainly didn't push it
towards building muscles rather than fat.


  #10  
Old September 12th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ignoramus5536 wrote:
||
|| Speaking of hypo... My MIL had a serious hypo attack at BG of 70
|| (sic).
||
|| To me, this is a quite normal level these days. I would experience
|| perhaps very slight shakiness, but would feel quite well otherwise.


If you do some reading on hypo, you'll discover that hypo is not merely a
low BG reading...they symptoms can be brought on by the rate that BG levels
fall, so the BG doesn't even need to be that low for one to experience hypo.


 




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