Body for Life Week 6

MSN BFL is a better place to post since they will say, 'Hang in there!' or
'Very good!'. They are fluff with no substance.

You seem like all the rest, jump into BFL and you bought all the advertising
BS they put out. As far as results, you get what you deserve.

-g


"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus6463 wrote:
Wendy, you are doing something wrong with your WOE or WOL, you sound
very disturbed and ****ed all the time.

I agree with you that I've been crabby lately. It doesn't have to do with
my WOE or my exercise routine other than that I'm stuck on a project and
keep blowing it off to go exercise or get on usenet. My life has many
dimensions and one of them isn't going well right now.

In a related note, my financial life just sucks right now. The big home
improvement project I did this summer overran by about $3,000. That's not
very much on in the big scheme of things, but it has been a huge blow to
my daily operating budget in the slow time of my business. I've had to
give up minor things (my best friend and I were going to go into Boston
today to do museums and shop) and I've had to give up major things (my
husband and I just can't afford to go on a cruise next April.)

Reexamine your life
carefully. Take back your personal time etc, drop some projects or put
them on hold. Do more things you like.

Don't I just wish.

Maybe some food is missing from your diet that you need.

No doubt. What comes to mind immediately is chocolate, ice cream, bagels
with cream cheese, lasagna, pizza...

I gave those things up to lose fat. I've lost fat and gained flab. So
sue me if I'm not delighted.

How would YOU feel if you worked out five times this week and gained 3
pounds without noticeably going off your WOE?

Wendy

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus6463 wrote:
Wendy, you are doing something wrong with your WOE or WOL, you sound
very disturbed and ****ed all the time.

I agree with you that I've been crabby lately. It doesn't have to do with
my WOE or my exercise routine other than that I'm stuck on a project and
keep blowing it off to go exercise or get on usenet. My life has many
dimensions and one of them isn't going well right now.

In a related note, my financial life just sucks right now. The big home
improvement project I did this summer overran by about $3,000. That's not
very much on in the big scheme of things, but it has been a huge blow to
my daily operating budget in the slow time of my business. I've had to
give up minor things (my best friend and I were going to go into Boston
today to do museums and shop) and I've had to give up major things (my
husband and I just can't afford to go on a cruise next April.)

Reexamine your life
carefully. Take back your personal time etc, drop some projects or put
them on hold. Do more things you like.

Don't I just wish.

Maybe some food is missing from your diet that you need.

No doubt. What comes to mind immediately is chocolate, ice cream, bagels
with cream cheese, lasagna, pizza...

I gave those things up to lose fat. I've lost fat and gained flab. So
sue me if I'm not delighted.

How would YOU feel if you worked out five times this week and gained 3
pounds without noticeably going off your WOE?

Wendy

I'd check my calendar and see how close to my time-of-the-month (TOM) it is.
I usually gain 3 or 4 pounds in the days before my period comes no matter
how "good" I am with my diet!

Tonia (yeah, I'm back too)

Geoff wrote:

You seem like all the rest, jump into BFL and you bought all the advertising
BS they put out. As far as results, you get what you deserve.

I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought? And
what do you mean by "jump into BFL?" I'm on my fourth formal "challenge",
i.e., 12 week period where I re-examine my goals and recommit to the
routine. I enjoy the periodization of my goals and the framework the
challenge provides.

For a year now I've been eating small portions of balanced diets low on
the glycemic index. I've been doing aerobic exercises 3x a week and
weightlifting for about 45 minutes a day 3x a week.

Yes, I think I got what I deserve: I've lost 50 pounds.

Geoff, you are so seriously ****ed off about not being able to do the math
about body fat percentages that you are throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. Exercising and eating small portions of quality foods
throughout the day is NOT some BS scam. In fact, I can't think of
anything that works better. Can you?

Wendy

I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought?

If I told you that I have a complete plan where you can lose 50 lbs. of fat
and gain 10 lbs. of muscle in 3 months, you would probably want to see
something to support that claim like most people. When you accept a program
like that without seeing anything to support the claim, then you are
accepting the marketing BS. When you accept that program and the data
actually shows the opposite, then it is big time marketing BS.


And what do you mean by "jump into BFL?"

Doing bfl without knowing the facts of the program.


Geoff, you are so seriously ****ed off about not being able to do the math
about body fat percentages that you are throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. Exercising and eating small portions of quality foods
throughout the day is NOT some BS scam.

Don't bust my chops because MM failed to support their bfl claims. If you
don't like the message then tell eas to start printing some facts to support
their claims. I have a *BIG NEWS FLASH* for you, exercising and eating
small portions of quality food was not invented by eas or BP.

-g




"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Geoff wrote:

You seem like all the rest, jump into BFL and you bought all the
advertising
BS they put out. As far as results, you get what you deserve.

I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought? And
what do you mean by "jump into BFL?" I'm on my fourth formal "challenge",
i.e., 12 week period where I re-examine my goals and recommit to the
routine. I enjoy the periodization of my goals and the framework the
challenge provides.

For a year now I've been eating small portions of balanced diets low on
the glycemic index. I've been doing aerobic exercises 3x a week and
weightlifting for about 45 minutes a day 3x a week.

Yes, I think I got what I deserve: I've lost 50 pounds.

Geoff, you are so seriously ****ed off about not being able to do the math
about body fat percentages that you are throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. Exercising and eating small portions of quality foods
throughout the day is NOT some BS scam. In fact, I can't think of
anything that works better. Can you?

Wendy

Geoff wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought?

If I told you that I have a complete plan where you can lose 50 lbs. of fat
and gain 10 lbs. of muscle in 3 months, you would probably want to see
something to support that claim like most people.

BFL doesn't claim that. It said, "if you eat less and exercise more and
keep it up then you can get a better body." Yes, I bought it. But there
were no specific claims of what I ought to expect. In fact, it very
clearly says to form your own goals.

When you accept a program
like that without seeing anything to support the claim, then you are
accepting the marketing BS. When you accept that program and the data
actually shows the opposite, then it is big time marketing BS.

Accept a program? I really don't understand what you mean by that. I am
choosing to format my eating and exercising along the lines suggested in
the book. At first I decided to try it for 12 weeks to see if it fit
me. When it did I just kept it up... not as an accolyte believing a
religion, but because the format works for me.

You've seen my data. I've been tracking my weight and measurements and
body fat nearly weekly for 56 weeks at www.bFLtracker.com under the
profile "Dally". At first I gained muscle and lost fat. After about six
months I started to lose LBM along with fat, but not quite as much
LBM as fat. Overall I'm down around 6 pounds of LBM in the year and
about 44 pounds of fat. But for a while there I was up 10 pounds of LBM
and down 25 pounds of fat. (All numbers come from memory, I might be off
and I believe I'm rounding a bit, too, since you're so picky.)

But this corresponds perfectly to what we know about "newbie" gains. For
a few months MOST people can gain muscle while losing fat. Then they stop
being able to do that. Then they have to either being bulking (i.e.,
gaining fat & muscle) or cutting (i.e., losing fat & muscle.) When my
newbie gains expired I started cutting.

In other words, my actual results are a moving target that depend on many
factors, among which are when you start measuring (I'd already been losing
for a while when I started logging weekly) and what period you look
at. If you look at the OVERALL LBM gains (gross, not net) then you see
I truly put on muscle, even if I subsequently lost some of it (along with
some other non-muscle LBM like skin and connective tissue supporting the
fat and maybe some blood vessels.)

And what do you mean by "jump into BFL?"

Doing bfl without knowing the facts of the program.

Well, I've read the book by that title (twice), seen two videos on it and
get "Energy" magazine published by EAS that describes it... I've also
tried it (for a YEAR now). I think I know the facts of the program. I
also think that you do NOT know the facts because you keep blathering on
about false claims that I've never even heard them make.

Don't bust my chops because MM failed to support their bfl claims. If you
don't like the message then tell eas to start printing some facts to support
their claims. I have a *BIG NEWS FLASH* for you, exercising and eating
small portions of quality food was not invented by eas or BP.

Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature, not
some corporate conspiracy. While you're busy berating people for
believing that it works, I'm busy doing it and SEEING it work. And YES, I
know that this wasn't invented by EAS. That's partly why I don't
understand why you think it's such a load of bull****. It's basic human
mechanics. Of COURSE it works.

BTW, I've never bought anything from EAS. I'm actually NOT proud of that
- I really appreciate all the great value-added stuff they do, including
the website support, free consultants (which I've never used) and the
contest itself. I buy Myoplex Lite from a discount retailer online, but
only because I appreciate the taste and like using a MRP in my
diet. Bicker has one everyday and some other people mentioned liking
them, too. It's not because I think Myoplex is the cure for obesity!

I don't get your hostility. I really, really don't.

-- Wendy

I don't get your hostility. I really, really don't.

LOL, hostility, never mind then, sounds like you got it all together.

-g


"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Geoff wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought?

If I told you that I have a complete plan where you can lose 50 lbs. of
fat
and gain 10 lbs. of muscle in 3 months, you would probably want to see
something to support that claim like most people.

BFL doesn't claim that. It said, "if you eat less and exercise more and
keep it up then you can get a better body." Yes, I bought it. But there
were no specific claims of what I ought to expect. In fact, it very
clearly says to form your own goals.

When you accept a program
like that without seeing anything to support the claim, then you are
accepting the marketing BS. When you accept that program and the data
actually shows the opposite, then it is big time marketing BS.

Accept a program? I really don't understand what you mean by that. I am
choosing to format my eating and exercising along the lines suggested in
the book. At first I decided to try it for 12 weeks to see if it fit
me. When it did I just kept it up... not as an accolyte believing a
religion, but because the format works for me.

You've seen my data. I've been tracking my weight and measurements and
body fat nearly weekly for 56 weeks at www.bFLtracker.com under the
profile "Dally". At first I gained muscle and lost fat. After about six
months I started to lose LBM along with fat, but not quite as much
LBM as fat. Overall I'm down around 6 pounds of LBM in the year and
about 44 pounds of fat. But for a while there I was up 10 pounds of LBM
and down 25 pounds of fat. (All numbers come from memory, I might be off
and I believe I'm rounding a bit, too, since you're so picky.)

But this corresponds perfectly to what we know about "newbie" gains. For
a few months MOST people can gain muscle while losing fat. Then they stop
being able to do that. Then they have to either being bulking (i.e.,
gaining fat & muscle) or cutting (i.e., losing fat & muscle.) When my
newbie gains expired I started cutting.

In other words, my actual results are a moving target that depend on many
factors, among which are when you start measuring (I'd already been losing
for a while when I started logging weekly) and what period you look
at. If you look at the OVERALL LBM gains (gross, not net) then you see
I truly put on muscle, even if I subsequently lost some of it (along with
some other non-muscle LBM like skin and connective tissue supporting the
fat and maybe some blood vessels.)

And what do you mean by "jump into BFL?"

Doing bfl without knowing the facts of the program.

Well, I've read the book by that title (twice), seen two videos on it and
get "Energy" magazine published by EAS that describes it... I've also
tried it (for a YEAR now). I think I know the facts of the program. I
also think that you do NOT know the facts because you keep blathering on
about false claims that I've never even heard them make.

Don't bust my chops because MM failed to support their bfl claims. If
you
don't like the message then tell eas to start printing some facts to
support
their claims. I have a *BIG NEWS FLASH* for you, exercising and eating
small portions of quality food was not invented by eas or BP.

Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature, not
some corporate conspiracy. While you're busy berating people for
believing that it works, I'm busy doing it and SEEING it work. And YES, I
know that this wasn't invented by EAS. That's partly why I don't
understand why you think it's such a load of bull****. It's basic human
mechanics. Of COURSE it works.

BTW, I've never bought anything from EAS. I'm actually NOT proud of that
- I really appreciate all the great value-added stuff they do, including
the website support, free consultants (which I've never used) and the
contest itself. I buy Myoplex Lite from a discount retailer online, but
only because I appreciate the taste and like using a MRP in my
diet. Bicker has one everyday and some other people mentioned liking
them, too. It's not because I think Myoplex is the cure for obesity!

I don't get your hostility. I really, really don't.

-- Wendy

Yes, I bought it. But there
were no specific claims of what I ought to expect. In fact, it very
clearly says to form your own goals.

No, it doesn't, it says, 'build your best better ever in just 12 weeks'.


Accept a program? I really don't understand what you mean by that.

Is it really that tough to understand it? If someoneone does a program then
it is fair to say they have accepted it.


You've seen my data.

Their marketing says, build your best body ever in just 12 weeks. It
doesn't sound like that happened.



Well, I've read the book by that title (twice), seen two videos on it

So have I.


Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature

Must be a hard concept to understand but when MM writes articles that say,
'I lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 10 lbs. of muscle' but the beginning and
ending stats do not show that, what is there to get over? MM messed up, I
didn't write the articles nor did I run the marketing for bfl.


While you're busy berating people for
believing that it works, I'm busy doing it and SEEING it work.

Berate is to scold or condemn at length. I am not scolding or condemning
you. However, when you post a message that says, you lost LBM, that is what
happened to other people also. So, why did all those people lose LBM on the
program but you say you gained overall. You must be the exception. The
people who say they gained lbm is anecdotal at best.

Even in the discovery health challenge where each person was supervised by a
doctor and had a personal trainer, and given an eating plan, they still lost
lbm except for the guy who lost weight very slowly, 2 to 1 pound per week
and he only gained 2 pounds of muscle over the 16 week program. The program
was like bfl, 40/40/20, with alternating aerobic and anaerobic exercise and
I was really surprised when their stats showed they did not gain lbm except
the one guy.

You remind me of a story a business professor told about a guy who invested
money in mutual funds and after x number of years he said it grew to
$400,000 and bragged to everyone. See how well I did? The professor
pointed out that if he did his homework then he would have made $4 million
in the same amount of time. I know you will say, what the hell does that
mean or have to do with this discussion? Since, this seems very difficult
for you to understand, I will explain it. The same principle applies, do
your homework, when someone chooses bfl, it is implied that they did not do
their homework because the real data does not support the results the
finishers got. Most people like to see the results and data that supports
the results.


not some corporate conspiracy.

Stop busting my chops for eas' mistakes. Talk to them if you don't like the
message.

-g




"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Geoff wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about. What BS have I bought?

If I told you that I have a complete plan where you can lose 50 lbs. of
fat
and gain 10 lbs. of muscle in 3 months, you would probably want to see
something to support that claim like most people.

BFL doesn't claim that. It said, "if you eat less and exercise more and
keep it up then you can get a better body." Yes, I bought it. But there
were no specific claims of what I ought to expect. In fact, it very
clearly says to form your own goals.

When you accept a program
like that without seeing anything to support the claim, then you are
accepting the marketing BS. When you accept that program and the data
actually shows the opposite, then it is big time marketing BS.

Accept a program? I really don't understand what you mean by that. I am
choosing to format my eating and exercising along the lines suggested in
the book. At first I decided to try it for 12 weeks to see if it fit
me. When it did I just kept it up... not as an accolyte believing a
religion, but because the format works for me.

You've seen my data. I've been tracking my weight and measurements and
body fat nearly weekly for 56 weeks at www.bFLtracker.com under the
profile "Dally". At first I gained muscle and lost fat. After about six
months I started to lose LBM along with fat, but not quite as much
LBM as fat. Overall I'm down around 6 pounds of LBM in the year and
about 44 pounds of fat. But for a while there I was up 10 pounds of LBM
and down 25 pounds of fat. (All numbers come from memory, I might be off
and I believe I'm rounding a bit, too, since you're so picky.)

But this corresponds perfectly to what we know about "newbie" gains. For
a few months MOST people can gain muscle while losing fat. Then they stop
being able to do that. Then they have to either being bulking (i.e.,
gaining fat & muscle) or cutting (i.e., losing fat & muscle.) When my
newbie gains expired I started cutting.

In other words, my actual results are a moving target that depend on many
factors, among which are when you start measuring (I'd already been losing
for a while when I started logging weekly) and what period you look
at. If you look at the OVERALL LBM gains (gross, not net) then you see
I truly put on muscle, even if I subsequently lost some of it (along with
some other non-muscle LBM like skin and connective tissue supporting the
fat and maybe some blood vessels.)

And what do you mean by "jump into BFL?"

Doing bfl without knowing the facts of the program.

Well, I've read the book by that title (twice), seen two videos on it and
get "Energy" magazine published by EAS that describes it... I've also
tried it (for a YEAR now). I think I know the facts of the program. I
also think that you do NOT know the facts because you keep blathering on
about false claims that I've never even heard them make.

Don't bust my chops because MM failed to support their bfl claims. If
you
don't like the message then tell eas to start printing some facts to
support
their claims. I have a *BIG NEWS FLASH* for you, exercising and eating
small portions of quality food was not invented by eas or BP.

Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature, not
some corporate conspiracy. While you're busy berating people for
believing that it works, I'm busy doing it and SEEING it work. And YES, I
know that this wasn't invented by EAS. That's partly why I don't
understand why you think it's such a load of bull****. It's basic human
mechanics. Of COURSE it works.

BTW, I've never bought anything from EAS. I'm actually NOT proud of that
- I really appreciate all the great value-added stuff they do, including
the website support, free consultants (which I've never used) and the
contest itself. I buy Myoplex Lite from a discount retailer online, but
only because I appreciate the taste and like using a MRP in my
diet. Bicker has one everyday and some other people mentioned liking
them, too. It's not because I think Myoplex is the cure for obesity!

I don't get your hostility. I really, really don't.

-- Wendy

Geoff wrote:

Their marketing says, build your best body ever in just 12 weeks. It
doesn't sound like that happened.

It was the best change in 12 weeks that I've ever experienced. It took me
a dozen years to get out of shape and I guess I didn't really expect to
have my best body ever in 12 weeks. But someone else could have!

Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature

Must be a hard concept to understand but when MM writes articles that say,
'I lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 10 lbs. of muscle' but the beginning and
ending stats do not show that, what is there to get over? MM messed up, I
didn't write the articles nor did I run the marketing for bfl.

I believe that MM could have messed up. I rarely see a print article
without some mistake. I don't have to think corporate conspiracy when I
see one.

But I also believe that the cherry-picked stats could have come from some
period in the middle but not reflect the entire spectrum of experience: as
when I pointed out that I had gained 10 pounds of muscle and lost 25
pounds of fat. That was true for only a moment in time: after that I
started losing some of the pounds of muscle along with the fat. Now I've
lost about 6 pounds of LBM and 44 pounds of fat. But if I were doing
marketing I'd certainly use the shorter-period/better-result figure to
crow about.

You remind me of a story a business professor told about a guy who invested
money in mutual funds and after x number of years he said it grew to
$400,000 and bragged to everyone. See how well I did? The professor
pointed out that if he did his homework then he would have made $4 million
in the same amount of time. I know you will say, what the hell does that
mean or have to do with this discussion? Since, this seems very difficult
for you to understand, I will explain it. The same principle applies, do
your homework, when someone chooses bfl, it is implied that they did not do
their homework because the real data does not support the results the
finishers got.

Actually, your story means that there is a better way to get the results
that I could use if I just knew what it was. (Alternatively, it means
that hindsight is 20/20 - a useless criticism of someone's investment
performance, but I don't think that's what you meant.)

Let's see: I'm eating frequent small meals of balanced carb/protein low on
the glycemic index with some healthy fats (in reasonable calorie
levels) and I'm exercising 6x a week, 3 days cardio, 3 days
weight-lifting... where's the flaw in my program? What will result in a
more permanent fat loss and a better body? What alternative is better
than BFL?

Most people like to see the results and data that supports the results.

You're falling into the trap of thinking that most people think like you
do. But if you INSIST on seeing results that other people got doing Body
for Life, there are countless examples. www. BFLtracker.com is filled
with people's weekly logs with stats. Mine your own data and judge for
yourself.

But I still think you're over-thinking this. In the end, though, the
correct way to determine if it works is to try it. Have you ever done a
12 week challenge where you followed the program? What were your results?

BTW, I'm just back from buying a pair of size 16 jeans and a smaller
belt. I got tired of cinching up my size 18 jeans. When I began BFL I
was wearing a tight size 22.

-- Wendy

I believe that MM could have messed up. I rarely see a print article
without some mistake.

I think the thread has gone as far as it can go. One correction tho, it is
not one article or one person. It is every article in many different
issues. I think I saw only one person where the data supported the claims.
It is not a corporate conspiracy, it is sloppiness. Just like with the
pictures of Randy Penberthy, they show the ending pictures of each of his
challenges, then in a different article, web page, or the bfl journal book,
suddenly his ending picture for challenge 3 is now the ending picture for
challenge 2.

So much money has been dumped into the marketing of bfl, the question is,
why the sloppiness? I don't know the answer.


But I also believe that the cherry-picked stats could have come from some
period in the middle but not reflect the entire spectrum of experience

It is not what the articles said. They said here are the stats before I
started and here are the stats after I finished.


that hindsight is 20/20

It was not a hindsight discussion, it was how to evaluate mutual funds at
the time of purchase by looking at 15 years of data. The choices were
pretty obvious. The person who bought the fund that had the lower return
looked at 5 years of data.


You're falling into the trap of thinking that most people think like you
do. But if you INSIST on seeing results . . .

I thought bfl insisted on measuring progress . . . weekly pictures, bf
testing, etc.

-g





"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Geoff wrote:

Their marketing says, build your best body ever in just 12 weeks. It
doesn't sound like that happened.

It was the best change in 12 weeks that I've ever experienced. It took me
a dozen years to get out of shape and I guess I didn't really expect to
have my best body ever in 12 weeks. But someone else could have!

Geoff, get over it! Each person's "claims" are individual in nature

Must be a hard concept to understand but when MM writes articles that
say,
'I lost 30 lbs. of fat and gained 10 lbs. of muscle' but the beginning
and
ending stats do not show that, what is there to get over? MM messed up,
I
didn't write the articles nor did I run the marketing for bfl.

I believe that MM could have messed up. I rarely see a print article
without some mistake. I don't have to think corporate conspiracy when I
see one.

But I also believe that the cherry-picked stats could have come from some
period in the middle but not reflect the entire spectrum of experience: as
when I pointed out that I had gained 10 pounds of muscle and lost 25
pounds of fat. That was true for only a moment in time: after that I
started losing some of the pounds of muscle along with the fat. Now I've
lost about 6 pounds of LBM and 44 pounds of fat. But if I were doing
marketing I'd certainly use the shorter-period/better-result figure to
crow about.

You remind me of a story a business professor told about a guy who
invested
money in mutual funds and after x number of years he said it grew to
$400,000 and bragged to everyone. See how well I did? The professor
pointed out that if he did his homework then he would have made $4
million
in the same amount of time. I know you will say, what the hell does
that
mean or have to do with this discussion? Since, this seems very
difficult
for you to understand, I will explain it. The same principle applies,
do
your homework, when someone chooses bfl, it is implied that they did not
do
their homework because the real data does not support the results the
finishers got.

Actually, your story means that there is a better way to get the results
that I could use if I just knew what it was. (Alternatively, it means
that hindsight is 20/20 - a useless criticism of someone's investment
performance, but I don't think that's what you meant.)

Let's see: I'm eating frequent small meals of balanced carb/protein low on
the glycemic index with some healthy fats (in reasonable calorie
levels) and I'm exercising 6x a week, 3 days cardio, 3 days
weight-lifting... where's the flaw in my program? What will result in a
more permanent fat loss and a better body? What alternative is better
than BFL?

Most people like to see the results and data that supports the results.

You're falling into the trap of thinking that most people think like you
do. But if you INSIST on seeing results that other people got doing Body
for Life, there are countless examples. www. BFLtracker.com is filled
with people's weekly logs with stats. Mine your own data and judge for
yourself.

But I still think you're over-thinking this. In the end, though, the
correct way to determine if it works is to try it. Have you ever done a
12 week challenge where you followed the program? What were your results?

BTW, I'm just back from buying a pair of size 16 jeans and a smaller
belt. I got tired of cinching up my size 18 jeans. When I began BFL I
was wearing a tight size 22.

-- Wendy