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Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 17th, 2004, 10:35 PM
Slider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago, I
started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM, about 350
cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small Bodysmith setup I have.
I waited until now to start weights because I knew I would gain
weight...it's a psychological thing even though I know it's not fat, it's
still weight, right?

My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the cardio
and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know that is to be
expected with the weight lifting due to water retention by the muscles (the
glycogen is to blame there, I believe), but can the rest due to increased
lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the
rest *could* be additional muscle weight. My goal with the weights is to
simply TONE, not add bulk. ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what
I'm aiming for.

Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching 50lbs, I
basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and trying induction
again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight loss. Now that I've gained a
few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm thinking of trying induction again
(basically attempting to fool my body into thinking it's gained fat, when in
fact, it has not).

I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not wasted
after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and bike is Mon-Sat),
should I be able to achieve both stated goals of fat loss via LC and cardio
and muscle toning via weights?

I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can post it.

Thanks for any suggestions and input.


  #2  
Old June 17th, 2004, 10:38 PM
JC Der Koenig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

It's great that you're lifting weights, but you're eating too much for your
goals.

--

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

--
"Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote in message
...
I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago, I
started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM, about 350
cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small Bodysmith setup I

have.
I waited until now to start weights because I knew I would gain
weight...it's a psychological thing even though I know it's not fat, it's
still weight, right?

My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the cardio
and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know that is to be
expected with the weight lifting due to water retention by the muscles

(the
glycogen is to blame there, I believe), but can the rest due to increased
lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the
rest *could* be additional muscle weight. My goal with the weights is to
simply TONE, not add bulk. ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what
I'm aiming for.

Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching 50lbs, I
basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and trying induction
again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight loss. Now that I've gained a
few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm thinking of trying induction again
(basically attempting to fool my body into thinking it's gained fat, when

in
fact, it has not).

I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not wasted
after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and bike is

Mon-Sat),
should I be able to achieve both stated goals of fat loss via LC and

cardio
and muscle toning via weights?

I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can post it.

Thanks for any suggestions and input.




  #3  
Old June 17th, 2004, 11:10 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

Slider wrote:
:: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago,
:: I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM,
:: about 350 cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small
:: Bodysmith setup I have. I waited until now to start weights because
:: I knew I would gain weight...it's a psychological thing even though
:: I know it's not fat, it's still weight, right?

No.....and weight gain is not a given, either.

::
:: My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the
:: cardio and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know that
:: is to be expected with the weight lifting due to water retention by
:: the muscles (the glycogen is to blame there, I believe),

How is glycogen to blame if you're LCing? There could be some LBM added
that is not muscle but is also not fat. That is typically a good thing.

but can the
:: rest due to increased lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water
:: accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the rest *could* be additional muscle
:: weight.

It's hard to say...you likely added some muscle and other LBM, but with that
amount of cardio and only 6 weeks I doubt you've gained 5 to 6 lbs of
muscle.

My goal with the weights is to simply TONE, not add bulk.
:: ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what I'm aiming for.

Well, lean does not imply bulky...and having tone doesn't imply bulk. You
don't state what you weigh, so we can't know what this 10 lbs really
means...if you weigh 350 then this might be a drop in the bucket, but if you
weigh 120 then you might want to consider some other tactics.

::
:: Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching
:: 50lbs, I basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and
:: trying induction again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight loss.

Induction does not automatically generate weight loss. You need to pay
attention to how much you eat vs how much your burn. Many LCers find that
as they lose more and more weight they have to pay attention to how much
they eat and not just how many carbs. Welcome to success via LC dieting.
You aren't alone.

:: Now that I've gained a few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm
:: thinking of trying induction again (basically attempting to fool my
:: body into thinking it's gained fat, when in fact, it has not).

??? Have you done bodyfat measurements?

::
:: I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
:: recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not
:: wasted after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and
:: bike is Mon-Sat), should I be able to achieve both stated goals of
:: fat loss via LC and cardio and muscle toning via weights?

Fat loss one way or another will lead to what you refer to as toning.
Weights will help either increase muscle mass and/or prevent loss of muscle.
Fat loss with make whatever muslce you have look more evident enhancing what
you refer to as tone. The combination of dieting, weight lifting, and
cardio should give you the results you seek (though not for the reasons you
mention). You have not commented on your eating other than to mention carbs
(induction), so that suggests to me that you might simply be eating too
much. When people begin doing more exercise it is quite common to want to
eat more. If you aren't tracking specifically, then your eating might have
increased slowly without your noticing.


::
:: I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can post
:: it.

I don't think that is as important as how much you're eating. Of course,
only doing upper body causes me to have some concerns about your routine.
If you're large, there should be a lot of muscle mass in your legs and butt
and you need to be lifting with them.

Just as a example, when I started lifting (I had already been doing cardio),
I didn't lose for 3 months. But the reason was simply that I was eating
more food - specically nuts. Heavy exercise does that. AFter a while, I
made adjustments.

I'll tell you also that sometimes doing less exercise can help you control
appetite. Alternatively, in time, as you adapt to the exercise load, you
should be able to control your eating better. IME.

I suggest you use fitday to track your total eating for a week or two,
without trying to change how much you eat (careful: just tracking will cause
you to be more conscious). Once you get a good notion of how much you're
eating, start dropping the amount. It's hard to give any guidelines on how
much to drop, since you haven't given any information on who much you weigh,
how tall you are, your frame size, whether you're a man or a woman, etc. So
sound like a woman (no insult intended), but I might be wrong. Anywho, via
exercise and diet, you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit over a week to
lose 1 lb. So use that in your thinking. Between 1 and 1.25 lbs a week is
a reasonable number to shoot for, unless you weigh 350 or more, in which
case you can lose faster. I take it that you have about 25 lbs more to
lose, so don't expect fast results unless you really push hard, which is not
recommended.

::
:: Thanks for any suggestions and input.


  #4  
Old June 18th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Slider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz


"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Slider wrote:
:: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago,
:: I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM,
:: about 350 cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small
:: Bodysmith setup I have. I waited until now to start weights because
:: I knew I would gain weight...it's a psychological thing even though
:: I know it's not fat, it's still weight, right?

No.....and weight gain is not a given, either.

::
:: My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the
:: cardio and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know that
:: is to be expected with the weight lifting due to water retention by
:: the muscles (the glycogen is to blame there, I believe),

How is glycogen to blame if you're LCing? There could be some LBM added
that is not muscle but is also not fat. That is typically a good thing.

It was my understanding that when LCing, muscles retain glycogen and for
each molecule of glycogen, there are 5 molecules of water attached to it.
Thus the gain of "water weight".

but can the
:: rest due to increased lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water
:: accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the rest *could* be additional muscle
:: weight.

It's hard to say...you likely added some muscle and other LBM, but with

that
amount of cardio and only 6 weeks I doubt you've gained 5 to 6 lbs of
muscle.

LBM? Lean Body Mass?

My goal with the weights is to simply TONE, not add bulk.
:: ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what I'm aiming for.

Well, lean does not imply bulky...and having tone doesn't imply bulk. You
don't state what you weigh, so we can't know what this 10 lbs really
means...if you weigh 350 then this might be a drop in the bucket, but if

you
weigh 120 then you might want to consider some other tactics.

Good point. I was 190 before starting weights and am now 200. I'd like to be
about 180. I'm 5'10' with a large frame.

::
:: Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching
:: 50lbs, I basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and
:: trying induction again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight loss.

Induction does not automatically generate weight loss. You need to pay
attention to how much you eat vs how much your burn. Many LCers find that
as they lose more and more weight they have to pay attention to how much
they eat and not just how many carbs. Welcome to success via LC dieting.
You aren't alone.

For me it generated the vast majority of my weight loss and I found it very
easy to stick to. I want to kick my body back into ketosis and "purge" any
water weight that I may have gained do to not-so-strict-LCing for the past
little while.

:: Now that I've gained a few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm
:: thinking of trying induction again (basically attempting to fool my
:: body into thinking it's gained fat, when in fact, it has not).

??? Have you done bodyfat measurements?

It's on my list. I realize it's the only true measurement of my success and
plan on visiting a gym very soon to have a benchmark established.

:: I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
:: recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not
:: wasted after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and
:: bike is Mon-Sat), should I be able to achieve both stated goals of
:: fat loss via LC and cardio and muscle toning via weights?

Fat loss one way or another will lead to what you refer to as toning.
Weights will help either increase muscle mass and/or prevent loss of

muscle.
Fat loss with make whatever muslce you have look more evident enhancing

what
you refer to as tone. The combination of dieting, weight lifting, and
cardio should give you the results you seek (though not for the reasons

you
mention). You have not commented on your eating other than to mention

carbs
(induction), so that suggests to me that you might simply be eating too
much. When people begin doing more exercise it is quite common to want to
eat more. If you aren't tracking specifically, then your eating might

have
increased slowly without your noticing.

My caloric intake is approx. 1200-1500 per day, but still following LC woe.

:: I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can post
:: it.

I don't think that is as important as how much you're eating. Of course,
only doing upper body causes me to have some concerns about your routine.
If you're large, there should be a lot of muscle mass in your legs and

butt
and you need to be lifting with them.

I have very large, muscular, well defined legs from years of hockey and
soccer. They have never been a problem and frankly, don't need work. My butt
is also not an issue (for me). I lost about 6" on my waist and considerably
reduced my "seat" size by swimming when I initially started LCing. I swam 5
days a week for about 6 months.

The upper body is more important to me because of the excess skin from the
weight loss, and while I'm 38 and realize that my skin is not as elastic as
it used to be, the decrease of fat and better defining of the muscles will
certainly improve myself esteem.

Just as a example, when I started lifting (I had already been doing

cardio),
I didn't lose for 3 months. But the reason was simply that I was eating
more food - specically nuts. Heavy exercise does that. AFter a while, I
made adjustments.

I'll tell you also that sometimes doing less exercise can help you control
appetite. Alternatively, in time, as you adapt to the exercise load, you
should be able to control your eating better. IME.

I suggest you use fitday to track your total eating for a week or two,
without trying to change how much you eat (careful: just tracking will

cause
you to be more conscious). Once you get a good notion of how much you're
eating, start dropping the amount. It's hard to give any guidelines on

how
much to drop, since you haven't given any information on who much you

weigh,
how tall you are, your frame size, whether you're a man or a woman, etc.

So
sound like a woman (no insult intended), but I might be wrong. Anywho, via
exercise and diet, you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit over a week

to
lose 1 lb. So use that in your thinking. Between 1 and 1.25 lbs a week

is
a reasonable number to shoot for, unless you weigh 350 or more, in which
case you can lose faster. I take it that you have about 25 lbs more to
lose, so don't expect fast results unless you really push hard, which is

not
recommended.

I have been using Fitday, although not a regularly as I should be to track
this. According to FitDay, I burn 2100 calories per week by cycling. 1050
calories per week by weight lifting (more if you consider the lasting
effects after lifting). If I select a sedentary lifestyle (bed-bound), which
I am not, but it's the only setting that gives reasonable figures, my week
looks like this:

Weekly Caloric burn:
Basal: 8288
Lifestyle: 2590
Activities: 3150
TOTAL: 14028

Weekly caloric intake @ 1500cal/day: 10500

Net difference: -3528

It seems I am burning the requisite number of calories to lose
weight....unless I'm calcualting it wrong or FitDay numbers are complete BS.

So, the numbers say I should be losing weight, but my scale says otherwise.
:-(



  #5  
Old June 18th, 2004, 01:22 AM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

Slider wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Slider wrote:
::::: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks
::::: ago,
::::: I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM,
::::: about 350 cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small
::::: Bodysmith setup I have. I waited until now to start weights
::::: because
::::: I knew I would gain weight...it's a psychological thing even
::::: though
::::: I know it's not fat, it's still weight, right?
:::
::: No.....and weight gain is not a given, either.
:::
:::::
::::: My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the
::::: cardio and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know
::::: that
::::: is to be expected with the weight lifting due to water retention
::::: by the muscles (the glycogen is to blame there, I believe),
:::
::: How is glycogen to blame if you're LCing? There could be some LBM
::: added that is not muscle but is also not fat. That is typically a
::: good thing.
:::
:: It was my understanding that when LCing, muscles retain glycogen and
:: for each molecule of glycogen, there are 5 molecules of water
:: attached to it. Thus the gain of "water weight".



If you're really LCing and exercising, then your glycogen stores will tend
to run low, so you'll be a glycogen depleted state, and thus not hold water
weight. It is when you consume carbs that the glucose gets stored as
glycogen in the muscles (and liver it of you consume fruit sugar). Then,
because the glycogen pulls water in too, you gain water weight, not fat.

So, if you're really LCing, doing cardio and weight lifting, you should NOT
be holding water weight due to weight lifting, in general.


::
::: but can the
::::: rest due to increased lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water
::::: accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the rest *could* be additional muscle
::::: weight.
:::
::: It's hard to say...you likely added some muscle and other LBM, but
::: with that amount of cardio and only 6 weeks I doubt you've gained 5
::: to 6 lbs of muscle.
:::
:: LBM? Lean Body Mass?

Yes.

::
::: My goal with the weights is to simply TONE, not add bulk.
::::: ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what I'm aiming for.
:::
::: Well, lean does not imply bulky...and having tone doesn't imply
::: bulk. You don't state what you weigh, so we can't know what this 10
::: lbs really means...if you weigh 350 then this might be a drop in
::: the bucket, but if you weigh 120 then you might want to consider
::: some other tactics.
:::
:: Good point. I was 190 before starting weights and am now 200. I'd
:: like to be about 180. I'm 5'10' with a large frame.

I'm wondering if you're getting extra carbs from somewhere.

::
:::::
::::: Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching
::::: 50lbs, I basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and
::::: trying induction again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight
::::: loss.
:::
::: Induction does not automatically generate weight loss. You need to
::: pay attention to how much you eat vs how much your burn. Many
::: LCers find that as they lose more and more weight they have to pay
::: attention to how much they eat and not just how many carbs.
::: Welcome to success via LC dieting. You aren't alone.
:::
:: For me it generated the vast majority of my weight loss and I found
:: it very easy to stick to. I want to kick my body back into ketosis
:: and "purge" any water weight that I may have gained do to
:: not-so-strict-LCing for the past little while.

Not-so-strict-LCing? Perhaps I missed that part before. if you've been
eating extra carbs, then you're retaining water. If that's the case, I
would not worry about losing it and just concentrate on losing more bodyfat.

OTOH, if scale weight is all that's important to you, doing induction right
would squeeze out the glycogen from the muscles. You can also do glycogen
depletion workouts in the gym -- lots of sets and about 70% max. Doing leg
work really helps there, too, as those big leg muscles can retain a lot of
water.

::
::::: Now that I've gained a few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm
::::: thinking of trying induction again (basically attempting to fool
::::: my body into thinking it's gained fat, when in fact, it has not).
:::
::: ??? Have you done bodyfat measurements?
:::
:: It's on my list. I realize it's the only true measurement of my
:: success and plan on visiting a gym very soon to have a benchmark
:: established.
::
::::: I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
::::: recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not
::::: wasted after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and
::::: bike is Mon-Sat), should I be able to achieve both stated goals of
::::: fat loss via LC and cardio and muscle toning via weights?
:::
::: Fat loss one way or another will lead to what you refer to as
::: toning. Weights will help either increase muscle mass and/or
::: prevent loss of muscle. Fat loss with make whatever muslce you have
::: look more evident enhancing what you refer to as tone. The
::: combination of dieting, weight lifting, and cardio should give you
::: the results you seek (though not for the reasons you mention). You
::: have not commented on your eating other than to mention carbs
::: (induction), so that suggests to me that you might simply be eating
::: too much. When people begin doing more exercise it is quite common
::: to want to eat more. If you aren't tracking specifically, then
::: your eating might have increased slowly without your noticing.
:::
:: My caloric intake is approx. 1200-1500 per day, but still following
:: LC woe.

1200/190 = 6.3x
1500/190 = 7.9 or 8x.

Try to stay up around 8x.


::
::::: I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can
::::: post it.
:::
::: I don't think that is as important as how much you're eating. Of
::: course, only doing upper body causes me to have some concerns about
::: your routine. If you're large, there should be a lot of muscle mass
::: in your legs and butt and you need to be lifting with them.
:::
:: I have very large, muscular, well defined legs from years of hockey
:: and soccer. They have never been a problem and frankly, don't need
:: work.

I disagree. Muscular legs burn calories. With your calorie consumption,
they won't get any bigger...but they can get stronger and by exercising them
with weights you'll increase your metabolism. The result is that after your
weight training sessions, for as many as 12 hours after, your body will burn
more calories. if you control your eating, your weight loss will increase.
Not training your lower body is working agaisnt you.

AS I mentioned before, if you have muscular legs, they can retain a lot of
water weight if you're eating enough carbs to keep glycogen refilled.

My butt is also not an issue (for me). I lost about 6" on my
:: waist and considerably reduced my "seat" size by swimming when I
:: initially started LCing. I swam 5 days a week for about 6 months.


Again, the butt muscles are large and strong. Use movements in the gym that
work them. As long as you diet for weight loss, they won't grow.

::
:: The upper body is more important to me because of the excess skin
:: from the weight loss, and while I'm 38 and realize that my skin is
:: not as elastic as it used to be, the decrease of fat and better
:: defining of the muscles will certainly improve myself esteem.

You won't see much improvement in terms of muscle size while you're dieting.
Keep working to lose the bodyfat, but if you want to add muscle, you'll
have to oneday consider eating to gain weight, hopefully muscle moreso than
fat (with proper weight training).

::
::: Just as a example, when I started lifting (I had already been doing
::: cardio), I didn't lose for 3 months. But the reason was simply
::: that I was eating more food - specically nuts. Heavy exercise does
::: that. AFter a while, I made adjustments.
:::
::: I'll tell you also that sometimes doing less exercise can help you
::: control appetite. Alternatively, in time, as you adapt to the
::: exercise load, you should be able to control your eating better.
::: IME.
:::
::: I suggest you use fitday to track your total eating for a week or
::: two, without trying to change how much you eat (careful: just
::: tracking will cause you to be more conscious). Once you get a good
::: notion of how much you're eating, start dropping the amount. It's
::: hard to give any guidelines on how much to drop, since you haven't
::: given any information on who much you weigh, how tall you are, your
::: frame size, whether you're a man or a woman, etc. So sound like a
::: woman (no insult intended), but I might be wrong. Anywho, via
::: exercise and diet, you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit over a
::: week to lose 1 lb. So use that in your thinking. Between 1 and
::: 1.25 lbs a week is a reasonable number to shoot for, unless you
::: weigh 350 or more, in which case you can lose faster. I take it
::: that you have about 25 lbs more to lose, so don't expect fast
::: results unless you really push hard, which is not recommended.
:::
:: I have been using Fitday, although not a regularly as I should be to
:: track this. According to FitDay, I burn 2100 calories per week by
:: cycling. 1050 calories per week by weight lifting (more if you
:: consider the lasting effects after lifting).

Fitday's numbers are high for exercise, IMO. Use them as a guide to track
relative activity levels, but don't live by them.


If I select a sedentary
:: lifestyle (bed-bound), which I am not, but it's the only setting
:: that gives reasonable figures, my week looks like this:
::
:: Weekly Caloric burn:
:: Basal: 8288
:: Lifestyle: 2590
:: Activities: 3150
:: TOTAL: 14028
::
:: Weekly caloric intake @ 1500cal/day: 10500
::
:: Net difference: -3528
::
:: It seems I am burning the requisite number of calories to lose
:: weight....unless I'm calcualting it wrong or FitDay numbers are
:: complete BS.

Well, the activity numbers are way high.

::
:: So, the numbers say I should be losing weight, but my scale says
:: otherwise. :-(

Okay, how many carbs are you eating? ARe you eating any LC sweets? It could
be that you've gained some water weight due to increased carbs. Your
bodyfat might not have changed much at all. If that's the case, then
creating more of a calorie deficit ought to be the way to go. Squeezing out
water weight by lowering carbs won't do jack for your bodyfat, it will only
make the scales give numbers that make you happy. That's false, IMO. In
any case, train your legs and lower body...that will help retain that muscle
and it will also speed glycogen depletion so you can drop water weight...and
it will burn calories so you can lose fat.


  #6  
Old June 18th, 2004, 01:56 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

"Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote:

I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago, I
started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM, about 350
cal.)


those things waaaaaaaaaaay overestimate the amount of calories burned.
don't rely on it.
  #7  
Old June 18th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Slider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz


"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Slider wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Slider wrote:
::::: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks
::::: ago,
::::: I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM,
::::: about 350 cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small
::::: Bodysmith setup I have. I waited until now to start weights
::::: because
::::: I knew I would gain weight...it's a psychological thing even
::::: though
::::: I know it's not fat, it's still weight, right?
:::
::: No.....and weight gain is not a given, either.
:::
:::::
::::: My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the
::::: cardio and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know
::::: that
::::: is to be expected with the weight lifting due to water retention
::::: by the muscles (the glycogen is to blame there, I believe),
:::
::: How is glycogen to blame if you're LCing? There could be some LBM
::: added that is not muscle but is also not fat. That is typically a
::: good thing.
:::
:: It was my understanding that when LCing, muscles retain glycogen and
:: for each molecule of glycogen, there are 5 molecules of water
:: attached to it. Thus the gain of "water weight".



If you're really LCing and exercising, then your glycogen stores will tend
to run low, so you'll be a glycogen depleted state, and thus not hold

water
weight. It is when you consume carbs that the glucose gets stored as
glycogen in the muscles (and liver it of you consume fruit sugar). Then,
because the glycogen pulls water in too, you gain water weight, not fat.

So, if you're really LCing, doing cardio and weight lifting, you should

NOT
be holding water weight due to weight lifting, in general.


::
::: but can the
::::: rest due to increased lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water
::::: accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the rest *could* be additional muscle
::::: weight.
:::
::: It's hard to say...you likely added some muscle and other LBM, but
::: with that amount of cardio and only 6 weeks I doubt you've gained 5
::: to 6 lbs of muscle.
:::
:: LBM? Lean Body Mass?

Yes.

::
::: My goal with the weights is to simply TONE, not add bulk.
::::: ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what I'm aiming for.
:::
::: Well, lean does not imply bulky...and having tone doesn't imply
::: bulk. You don't state what you weigh, so we can't know what this 10
::: lbs really means...if you weigh 350 then this might be a drop in
::: the bucket, but if you weigh 120 then you might want to consider
::: some other tactics.
:::
:: Good point. I was 190 before starting weights and am now 200. I'd
:: like to be about 180. I'm 5'10' with a large frame.

I'm wondering if you're getting extra carbs from somewhere.

::
:::::
::::: Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching
::::: 50lbs, I basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and
::::: trying induction again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight
::::: loss.
:::
::: Induction does not automatically generate weight loss. You need to
::: pay attention to how much you eat vs how much your burn. Many
::: LCers find that as they lose more and more weight they have to pay
::: attention to how much they eat and not just how many carbs.
::: Welcome to success via LC dieting. You aren't alone.
:::
:: For me it generated the vast majority of my weight loss and I found
:: it very easy to stick to. I want to kick my body back into ketosis
:: and "purge" any water weight that I may have gained do to
:: not-so-strict-LCing for the past little while.

Not-so-strict-LCing? Perhaps I missed that part before. if you've been
eating extra carbs, then you're retaining water. If that's the case, I
would not worry about losing it and just concentrate on losing more

bodyfat.

OTOH, if scale weight is all that's important to you, doing induction

right
would squeeze out the glycogen from the muscles. You can also do glycogen
depletion workouts in the gym -- lots of sets and about 70% max. Doing

leg
work really helps there, too, as those big leg muscles can retain a lot of
water.

not-so-strict = occasional beer. I mean, I'm in maintencance mode so I am
quote regimented still.
::
::::: Now that I've gained a few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm
::::: thinking of trying induction again (basically attempting to fool
::::: my body into thinking it's gained fat, when in fact, it has not).
:::
::: ??? Have you done bodyfat measurements?
:::
:: It's on my list. I realize it's the only true measurement of my
:: success and plan on visiting a gym very soon to have a benchmark
:: established.
::
::::: I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
::::: recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not
::::: wasted after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and
::::: bike is Mon-Sat), should I be able to achieve both stated goals of
::::: fat loss via LC and cardio and muscle toning via weights?
:::
::: Fat loss one way or another will lead to what you refer to as
::: toning. Weights will help either increase muscle mass and/or
::: prevent loss of muscle. Fat loss with make whatever muslce you have
::: look more evident enhancing what you refer to as tone. The
::: combination of dieting, weight lifting, and cardio should give you
::: the results you seek (though not for the reasons you mention). You
::: have not commented on your eating other than to mention carbs
::: (induction), so that suggests to me that you might simply be eating
::: too much. When people begin doing more exercise it is quite common
::: to want to eat more. If you aren't tracking specifically, then
::: your eating might have increased slowly without your noticing.
:::
:: My caloric intake is approx. 1200-1500 per day, but still following
:: LC woe.

1200/190 = 6.3x
1500/190 = 7.9 or 8x.

Try to stay up around 8x.

Will do.

::::: I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can
::::: post it.
:::
::: I don't think that is as important as how much you're eating. Of
::: course, only doing upper body causes me to have some concerns about
::: your routine. If you're large, there should be a lot of muscle mass
::: in your legs and butt and you need to be lifting with them.
:::
:: I have very large, muscular, well defined legs from years of hockey
:: and soccer. They have never been a problem and frankly, don't need
:: work.

I disagree. Muscular legs burn calories. With your calorie consumption,
they won't get any bigger...but they can get stronger and by exercising

them
with weights you'll increase your metabolism. The result is that after

your
weight training sessions, for as many as 12 hours after, your body will

burn
more calories. if you control your eating, your weight loss will

increase.
Not training your lower body is working agaisnt you.

AS I mentioned before, if you have muscular legs, they can retain a lot of
water weight if you're eating enough carbs to keep glycogen refilled.

My butt is also not an issue (for me). I lost about 6" on my
:: waist and considerably reduced my "seat" size by swimming when I
:: initially started LCing. I swam 5 days a week for about 6 months.


Again, the butt muscles are large and strong. Use movements in the gym

that
work them. As long as you diet for weight loss, they won't grow.

Will do.


:: The upper body is more important to me because of the excess skin
:: from the weight loss, and while I'm 38 and realize that my skin is
:: not as elastic as it used to be, the decrease of fat and better
:: defining of the muscles will certainly improve myself esteem.

You won't see much improvement in terms of muscle size while you're

dieting.
Keep working to lose the bodyfat, but if you want to add muscle, you'll
have to oneday consider eating to gain weight, hopefully muscle moreso

than
fat (with proper weight training).

::
::: Just as a example, when I started lifting (I had already been doing
::: cardio), I didn't lose for 3 months. But the reason was simply
::: that I was eating more food - specically nuts. Heavy exercise does
::: that. AFter a while, I made adjustments.
:::

Hey....my favorite snack is almonds. My wife figures I eat about a Costco
bag a week. Maybe I'll start cutting back on those.

::: I'll tell you also that sometimes doing less exercise can help you
::: control appetite. Alternatively, in time, as you adapt to the
::: exercise load, you should be able to control your eating better.
::: IME.
:::
::: I suggest you use fitday to track your total eating for a week or
::: two, without trying to change how much you eat (careful: just
::: tracking will cause you to be more conscious). Once you get a good
::: notion of how much you're eating, start dropping the amount. It's
::: hard to give any guidelines on how much to drop, since you haven't
::: given any information on who much you weigh, how tall you are, your
::: frame size, whether you're a man or a woman, etc. So sound like a
::: woman (no insult intended), but I might be wrong. Anywho, via
::: exercise and diet, you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit over a
::: week to lose 1 lb. So use that in your thinking. Between 1 and
::: 1.25 lbs a week is a reasonable number to shoot for, unless you
::: weigh 350 or more, in which case you can lose faster. I take it
::: that you have about 25 lbs more to lose, so don't expect fast
::: results unless you really push hard, which is not recommended.
:::
:: I have been using Fitday, although not a regularly as I should be to
:: track this. According to FitDay, I burn 2100 calories per week by
:: cycling. 1050 calories per week by weight lifting (more if you
:: consider the lasting effects after lifting).

Fitday's numbers are high for exercise, IMO. Use them as a guide to track
relative activity levels, but don't live by them.


If I select a sedentary
:: lifestyle (bed-bound), which I am not, but it's the only setting
:: that gives reasonable figures, my week looks like this:
::
:: Weekly Caloric burn:
:: Basal: 8288
:: Lifestyle: 2590
:: Activities: 3150
:: TOTAL: 14028
::
:: Weekly caloric intake @ 1500cal/day: 10500
::
:: Net difference: -3528
::
:: It seems I am burning the requisite number of calories to lose
:: weight....unless I'm calcualting it wrong or FitDay numbers are
:: complete BS.

Well, the activity numbers are way high.

::
:: So, the numbers say I should be losing weight, but my scale says
:: otherwise. :-(

Okay, how many carbs are you eating? ARe you eating any LC sweets? It

could
be that you've gained some water weight due to increased carbs. Your
bodyfat might not have changed much at all. If that's the case, then
creating more of a calorie deficit ought to be the way to go. Squeezing

out
water weight by lowering carbs won't do jack for your bodyfat, it will

only
make the scales give numbers that make you happy. That's false, IMO. In
any case, train your legs and lower body...that will help retain that

muscle
and it will also speed glycogen depletion so you can drop water

weight...and
it will burn calories so you can lose fat.


Typical daily menu: Scrambled eggs with ham, onions and green pepper and
melted cheese with 3 pieces of bacon and tea for b'fast. Kolbassa, cheese
and a few small crackers or an LC wrap with ham/cheese, etc for lunch and
bbq steak, pork chops, chicken, etc with salad for dinner. A fair amount of
water throughout the day, but no where near what I used to drink. In between
meal snacks are typically almonds or some cheese or some kind of kolbassa,
garlic coil sausage or the like.

I'll also have a Guinness draft every-now-and-again.

That's pretty much it!

I start working on my legs and hold off on induction. I'll also start
closely monitoring my intake and track it all on FitDay.

Thanks for your insight and suggestions Roger. Most appreciated.


  #8  
Old June 18th, 2004, 04:21 AM
Slider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
. ..
"Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote:

I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago, I
started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM, about 350
cal.)


those things waaaaaaaaaaay overestimate the amount of calories burned.
don't rely on it.

Actually, the Aerodyne bike I ride has a calorie counter on it and right or
wrong, it matches FitDay's numbers.

What do you suggest I use?

If they over estimate the caloric burn, hopefully they also overestimate the
caloric intake.


  #9  
Old June 18th, 2004, 05:15 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

"Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
. ..
"Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote:

I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks ago, I
started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM, about 350
cal.)


those things waaaaaaaaaaay overestimate the amount of calories burned.
don't rely on it.

Actually, the Aerodyne bike I ride has a calorie counter on it and right or
wrong, it matches FitDay's numbers.

What do you suggest I use?

If they over estimate the caloric burn, hopefully they also overestimate the
caloric intake.


they both overestimate calories burned. you need to put yourself into
fitday as nearly dead (bedridden or whatever it is) in order to get an
accurate count from it. it sets your basal metabolic rate too high
otherwise, and that skews everything else.

i think this one

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/Calories.html

is slightly more accurate, but don't fool yourself into thinking that
you're working harder than you are. i don't say that to be
condescending, i say it because most of us tend not to be good judges of
just how much we're putting out.

i myself only burn about 240 calories in 25 minutes of pretty vigorous
cycling (not on a stationary bike but out in the real world), and i
consider myself lucky to burn that much - if, indeed, i am. i suspect
there could be a variance of anywhere from ten to fifty calories in
either direction. since my body exists outside of controlled laboratory
conditions, there's no way to know for sure exactly what it's doing.

in any case, it's not all that helpful to look at the exact number of
calories we burn in any given excercise session. we should exercise to
increase our overall fitness & well-being and to boost our metabolism,
not to achieve X number of extra calories available daily for a
candybar. know what i mean?
  #10  
Old June 18th, 2004, 06:29 AM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Induction and weight lifting? Comments plz

Slider wrote:
:: "The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
:: . ..
::: "Slider" sliderxp21 at hotmail dot com wrote:
:::
:::: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks
:::: ago, I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at
:::: 65RPM, about 350 cal.)
:::
::: those things waaaaaaaaaaay overestimate the amount of calories
::: burned. don't rely on it.
:::
:: Actually, the Aerodyne bike I ride has a calorie counter on it and
:: right or wrong, it matches FitDay's numbers.
::
:: What do you suggest I use?
::
:: If they over estimate the caloric burn, hopefully they also
:: overestimate the caloric intake.

Don't worry so much about the numbers....you know you're not losing
now...so, either eat less, exercise more, or do some combination of both.
By tracking, you have a baseline...so if you increase exercise by 50%, even
if you don't know the exact calorie burn, you do know it helps to create a
greater calorie deficit. So, just work on that basis....


 




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