WW vs. Cold Turkey

George wrote:

To each his own, I suppose. I know that I never would have stopped smoking
if I allowed myself occasional "treats". And, when I was overweight because
of an ice cream habit, I never would have lost that weight if I didn't
totally stop ice cream. Now, I never think of smoking or ice cream. The
way I did it, those cravings are totally gone and I didn't force myself into
following a lifelong program. I never even think along the lines of "Gee,
I'd like to treat myself to ..., now what do I have to give up in return."
Nobody needs to be locked into that lifestyle.

I haven't given up anything. Well, except smoking, which I was never
much good at... Just decided I CBA with it when I was about 20. And I
never bother about treats: life is way too short! If they happen, I
work them in, if not, that's fine. I'd rather allow myself chips, ice
cream or chocolate and swim a bit more (nothing compensatory about that
- ANY excuse to stay in the pool for an extra 20 minutes is a good one!
Another 20 lengths? Way-hay! Yes please!) than face a life that
didn't allow them at all. Far too mediaeval and religious for me! Take
this week: I have spare points today - so I can save them or eat them if
I like and the mood takes me. I may save them for later in the week.
Then if a friend comes for lunch and we want cake, I'll eat it with a
clear knowledge that I can relax and enjoy it. If I don't eat the
points, they'll go towards reducing my last few pounds towards goal.
Either way there's no sweat, no guilt, no 'compensating'. I only try to
do that if I have a treat on a day when I don't have spare points -
which, given my usual diet and exercise regime, is damned rare!

As I see it, WW teaches you to have a trim waistline, a good diet, AND
cake without guilt. My kinda lifestyle! What have I got to lose but
the last 12 lbs to my goal?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

i'm glad ww works for you...keep up the good work

You do know that George is a troll right? he's been at this for a long time
now.. no reasoning with him.. his hamster that's fueling his brain is
roasted..

This being said, your post are very thought provoking Kate, I guess even
Trolls have their uses..
Will~

"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

To each his own, I suppose. I know that I never would have stopped
smoking
if I allowed myself occasional "treats". And, when I was overweight
because
of an ice cream habit, I never would have lost that weight if I didn't
totally stop ice cream. Now, I never think of smoking or ice cream. The
way I did it, those cravings are totally gone and I didn't force myself
into
following a lifelong program. I never even think along the lines of
"Gee,
I'd like to treat myself to ..., now what do I have to give up in
return."
Nobody needs to be locked into that lifestyle.

I haven't given up anything. Well, except smoking, which I was never much
good at... Just decided I CBA with it when I was about 20. And I never
bother about treats: life is way too short! If they happen, I work them
in, if not, that's fine. I'd rather allow myself chips, ice cream or
chocolate and swim a bit more (nothing compensatory about that - ANY
excuse to stay in the pool for an extra 20 minutes is a good one! Another
20 lengths? Way-hay! Yes please!) than face a life that didn't allow them
at all. Far too mediaeval and religious for me! Take this week: I have
spare points today - so I can save them or eat them if I like and the mood
takes me. I may save them for later in the week. Then if a friend comes
for lunch and we want cake, I'll eat it with a clear knowledge that I can
relax and enjoy it. If I don't eat the points, they'll go towards
reducing my last few pounds towards goal. Either way there's no sweat, no
guilt, no 'compensating'. I only try to do that if I have a treat on a
day when I don't have spare points - which, given my usual diet and
exercise regime, is damned rare!

As I see it, WW teaches you to have a trim waistline, a good diet, AND
cake without guilt. My kinda lifestyle! What have I got to lose but the
last 12 lbs to my goal?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

The doctor's point was that persons who are medically at risk should
treat
their way of thinking first, after which correct behavior will naturally
follow. This can be done by thinking of unhealthful food as something to
stay completely away from - thinking of it as poisonous even in small
quantities. With this basic belief there will be no temptation and
little
or no conscious weight maintenance program.

This is just replacing one unhealthy way of thinking about food with
another equally unhealthy one.

Unrestrained food consumption vs. intelligent selective food avoidance are
total opposites. No one seriously believes they are equally unhealthful..


Most of the contrary responses above had to do with "you can't eliminate
food" or "it's not black and white" or "why should any food be considered
wrong" or "I can compensate for eating too much by..." or "why should I
give
up the foods I like forever" or "I can indulge a little by..." etc. The
general theme is "I'm in love with unhealthful foods and all I'm willing
to
do about it is to try to cut down on them."

Not at all. ...

Not at all??? Those were verbatim quotes.


The preparation and consumption of food is, as it should be, a pleasurable
and social activity. Why ruin that by labeling certain foods 'poison'?

Because, in large quantities they ARE poison leading to weight gain, bad
health and early death. And in small quantities folks tend to ratchet back
up to large quantities OR they go on a restrictive lifelong diet -
unnecessarily in my opinion. The whole point is that if you no longer crave
a certain food, it's not part of your pleasurable food universe. You're not
being forced to reduce consumption, you're avoiding it because you WANT to.
And the nice thing is that there is no lifelong WW-like plan of denying
yourself what you want to eat in the quantities you want. There are many
things you don't eat or drink now because you know they are harmful. Why
not extend that category to include the foods that tend to cause the
greatest weight gain? It's simple with strong enough convictions.



Hm... WW is only ineffective if you give up or don't do it right! There
are plenty of people who have lost more than I have and have kept it off
for several years (more than six) in my meeting. While we all know that
*in theory* it's perfectly possible to devise our own weight loss program
based on healthy foods, we also know that many of us (me included) just
prefer a support group and are happy to pay for it. What's wrong with
that?

I would say that WW is ineffective by definition because it does not address
the root cause of weight gain. What's wrong with that? Nothing if you
don't mind remaining in need of others to control you weight on a lifelong
basis. It's just not for me.



Oh, and as to all the references to "cravings", the doctor's approach
eliminates them by changing our way of thinking. His program is not
about
denying what we really want, it's about not wanting harmful foods in the
first place.

That takes time to accomplish, but it is covered by WW. They just do it
in a gentler manner, without the guilt trip and bad food labels.

Emotive terms add nothing to the treatment of actual medical problems.



It's simply a matter of swapping the eating of treat foods every day (and
several times a day!) to eating them occasionally as treats and eating
well but sensibly the rest of the time. Giving certain foods or food
groups pejorative labels is unhealthy.

That's a ridiculous statement. It is not "unhealthy". It is the truth.
They are IN FACT unhealthful. If you REALLY believed that you wouldn't WANT
to consume them and you wouldn't be locked into a weight loss program
denying what and how much you want to eat for the rest of your life. Nobody
has ever stopped smoking that way. No one will ever stop eating unhealthful
foods that way either. Don't forget that many of the same foods that cause
weight gain also cause arterial plaque build-up, even in small quantities.
It's certainly your choice to continue food consumption that compromises
your health. I just can't understand it aside from a lack of personal
conviction.


--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Willow Herself wrote:

You do know that George is a troll right? he's been at this for a long time
now.. no reasoning with him.. his hamster that's fueling his brain is
roasted..

This being said, your post are very thought provoking Kate, I guess even
Trolls have their uses..
Will~

Have you looked at the troll recipes on my web site? Troll Soup is very
WW friendly!

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Blah blah blah...

NO food is unhealthy - none that is not actively poisonous. Eating
*anything* to excess is unhealthy. If you have so little self control
that you cannot moderate your intake of a particular food, then you are
in need of psychiatric care, not a weight loss program.

Go away and do your poor 'cold turkey' self denial stuff. Come back in
10 years and let's see which one of us is food and self obsessed and
which of us it at their goal weight, never worries about their diet, is
happy with their life, and eats chocolate. I shall be my ideal weight,
fit, and 60. What will you be?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

So once again Williow has succeeded in turning a useful thread into personal
attacks. Who's the troll? I'll bet she doesn't talk to people that way
face to face.

It doesn't matter, but since you asked I've been 5' 11" and very close to
170lbs ever since high school, and my weight isn't going to be any different
in the future. I know that because I don't eat junk food at all and I don't
think about weight maintenance as a result.

So go ahead with whatever Willow wants to talk about.


"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
Blah blah blah...

NO food is unhealthy - none that is not actively poisonous. Eating
*anything* to excess is unhealthy. If you have so little self control
that you cannot moderate your intake of a particular food, then you are
in need of psychiatric care, not a weight loss program.

Go away and do your poor 'cold turkey' self denial stuff. Come back in
10 years and let's see which one of us is food and self obsessed and
which of us it at their goal weight, never worries about their diet, is
happy with their life, and eats chocolate. I shall be my ideal weight,
fit, and 60. What will you be?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

"George" wrote in message
. com...
So once again Williow has succeeded in turning a useful thread into
personal
attacks. Who's the troll? I'll bet she doesn't talk to people that way
face to face.

It doesn't matter, but since you asked I've been 5' 11" and very close to
170lbs ever since high school, and my weight isn't going to be any
different
in the future. I know that because I don't eat junk food at all and I
don't
think about weight maintenance as a result.

So go ahead with whatever Willow wants to talk about.

So what is it that your life is lacking that you feel the need to keep
coming to this WW themed group where people are actually working on solving
own problems and criticizing the program and the members on it? I don't
know any people that spend as much time as you do flaunting their "obvious"
superiority except for ones who basically feel empowered by the relative
anonymity of usenet because their real life generally sucks.

Happy, confident people don't need to shove their limited beliefs into
everyone's faces.
--
the volleyballchick
Having a small ass doesn't make you less of one!

I think there was a question in there amid the uncalled for rant. To answer
you honestly, I'm here not because I have a weight problem myself but
because I'm curious about what's behind the weight epidemic of the past
decade or so. I can't even remember having overweight friends in grade
school or high school (some were chubby, at most), but now overweight/obese
people are in the majority. I hear blame being given to the fast food
restaurants, generally higher stress in society, and a more
automobile-related lifestyle. My limited experience here indicates the
problem may be more attitude-related. But this is such a sensitive subject
which all too quickly and inappropriately devolves into invective, that I
think it best to leave it there.



"Nunya B." wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
. com...
So once again Williow has succeeded in turning a useful thread into
personal
attacks. Who's the troll? I'll bet she doesn't talk to people that way
face to face.

It doesn't matter, but since you asked I've been 5' 11" and very close
to
170lbs ever since high school, and my weight isn't going to be any
different
in the future. I know that because I don't eat junk food at all and I
don't
think about weight maintenance as a result.

So go ahead with whatever Willow wants to talk about.

So what is it that your life is lacking that you feel the need to keep
coming to this WW themed group where people are actually working on
solving
own problems and criticizing the program and the members on it? I don't
know any people that spend as much time as you do flaunting their
"obvious"
superiority except for ones who basically feel empowered by the relative
anonymity of usenet because their real life generally sucks.

Happy, confident people don't need to shove their limited beliefs into
everyone's faces.
--
the volleyballchick
Having a small ass doesn't make you less of one!

If you thought that was a rant then you're seriously deluded and looking to
play victim. I was actually curious about why you're not only in this group
but also acting like you've got all of the answers.

I was one of those obese children you claim to not remember. There were 3
of us in my elementary school and people treated us like crap because we
were seen as lazy slobs. Too bad that wasn't the truth. I actually worked
my butt off playing sports and doing other activities but had no idea how to
eat properly because in my family food was love. Really, how is an 8 year
old supposed to know that eating a bag of cookies every day or having 3
helpings at dinner is bad when that's all they know?

I spent most of my young life being told to just stop eating "bad" food by
people like you who had no clue. Now that I've lost more than half my body
weight and work very hard to keep off what I can, I realize what was missing
when I was young - education and support which organizations like Weight
Watchers provide. I've also dealt with a serious eating disorder - a
disease - and overcame it. That I've been able to do it and still enjoy the
occasional calorie dense/nutrient light food for pleasure is not a bad
thing. If you want to act like you're some sort of superior individual
because you never touch ice cream, hey, it's your perogative but it doesn't
make it fact.

This group is here for SUPPORT for those of us who follow the WW plan. I
wouldn't accept dieting/weight control advice from you just as I wouldn't
ask you how to stop menstrual cramps. You haven't been there, you have no
credentials on the subject, and you're very narrow minded in the sense that
those of us who aren't like you must be doing something "wrong."

It's not me being sensitive. It's me being educational. I'm entitled to my
negative opinions of people like you just as you are entitled to your
negative opinions of those of us in this group. Just stop your whining about
how we haven't welcomed you with open arms around here because really, you
haven't posted anything but veiled insults since the first post I've seen of
yours. Then you turn around and cry because we're not catering to your
wishes.

If you're curious about the weight epidemic, then go do some research and
stop harassing people who are actually trying to do something about it. But
like I said before, you just come off as a small minded person who gets
stomped on in real life so you go take it out on the usenet.
--
the volleyballchick
who also kicked a 20 yr smoking habit nearly 10 years ago

"George" wrote in message
om...
I think there was a question in there amid the uncalled for rant. To
answer
you honestly, I'm here not because I have a weight problem myself but
because I'm curious about what's behind the weight epidemic of the past
decade or so. I can't even remember having overweight friends in grade
school or high school (some were chubby, at most), but now
overweight/obese
people are in the majority. I hear blame being given to the fast food
restaurants, generally higher stress in society, and a more
automobile-related lifestyle. My limited experience here indicates the
problem may be more attitude-related. But this is such a sensitive
subject
which all too quickly and inappropriately devolves into invective, that I
think it best to leave it there.



"Nunya B." wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
. com...
So once again Williow has succeeded in turning a useful thread into
personal
attacks. Who's the troll? I'll bet she doesn't talk to people that
way
face to face.

It doesn't matter, but since you asked I've been 5' 11" and very close
to
170lbs ever since high school, and my weight isn't going to be any
different
in the future. I know that because I don't eat junk food at all and I
don't
think about weight maintenance as a result.

So go ahead with whatever Willow wants to talk about.

So what is it that your life is lacking that you feel the need to keep
coming to this WW themed group where people are actually working on
solving
own problems and criticizing the program and the members on it? I don't
know any people that spend as much time as you do flaunting their
"obvious"
superiority except for ones who basically feel empowered by the relative
anonymity of usenet because their real life generally sucks.

Happy, confident people don't need to shove their limited beliefs into
everyone's faces.
--
the volleyballchick
Having a small ass doesn't make you less of one!