Low Carb vs. HGbA1c

"Cubit" wrote in message
. com...
Type: 2
Began Low Carb: 12/01/2003 (3 months)

10/31/2003 HGbA1c: 9.5

02/25/2004 HGbA1c: 6.2

I started Low Carb with a goal of 50 carbs or less per day. Now, I try to
do 20 carbs or less per day.


can you post up a typical day's diet ?

On 5-Mar-2004, Ignoramus15020
wrote:

Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read ALL
of the
information presented !! The original poster identified themself
as a
diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means that they
make up
the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are
at HIGHER
risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better
make sure
their kidney function is good and stays good.

I tend to side with you gman. Calorie restriction, exercise and
weight
loss does improve insulin sensitivity and slows development of
diabetes, according to a well known diabetes intervention study.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/diet-toolb...-diabetes.html

Low carbing can have various benefits, which I do not deny. I am
saying this to prevent someone not logically incluned from implying
that Iwas against low carbing, from the previous paragraph.

Some people here tend to attack others in packs, without really
thinking very hard about the issues presented, or bothering to
actually read articles and studies.

Reread the thread Ig. Gman's first comment was that 20 grams of carb
a day is very difficult to maintain. Then he went on to start beating
the "low carb is bad for your kidneys" horse in an oblique fashion.
Proper diet and exercise and its role in slowing or preventing
progression to diabetes was not at issue.

Carmen

On 5 Mar 2004 17:42:40 GMT, Ignoramus15020
wrote:

In article , gman99 wrote:
"Carmen" wrote:
Hi,
On 5-Mar-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
GMan's nattering snipped
:: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you have
your kidneys checked regularly !!

Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.

It may be time for ASDLC to institute the IOM Award. G

Take care,
Carmen

Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read ALL of
the
information presented !! The original poster identified themself as a
diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means that they make
up
the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are at
HIGHER
risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better make
sure
their kidney function is good and stays good.

I tend to side with you gman. Calorie restriction, exercise and weight
loss does improve insulin sensitivity and slows development of
diabetes, according to a well known diabetes intervention study.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/diet-toolb...-diabetes.html

Low carbing can have various benefits, which I do not deny. I am
saying this to prevent someone not logically incluned from implying
that Iwas against low carbing, from the previous paragraph.

Some people here tend to attack others in packs, without really
thinking very hard about the issues presented, or bothering to
actually read articles and studies.

i
What about this:

"From the Indiana University and the journal Diabetes Care, 2002: These
researchers from the school of medicine studied the effects of eating
animal protein versus eating plant proteins on diabetic subjects who had
too much of the protein albumin in their urine (an indicator of reduced
kidney function). The researchers found there were no significant
differences between the two diets on kidney function. They also noted that
total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, triglyceride levels, glucose levels,
insulin levels, blood pressure, or the level of amino acids in the blood
remained unchanged on the animal protein diet. In both diets, total
cholesterol, blood glucose, and blood pressure fell. They concluded that
there is no clear advantage in recommending only plant proteins to people
who have diabetes and reduced kidney function."

"From the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Denmark and the
International Journal of Obesity, 1999: The researchers conducted this
study to assess the renal affects of high vs low protein diets. They found
moderate adaptive alterations in renal size but found no indications of
adverse affects on kidney function."

"From Harvard University Medical School and The American Society of
Nephrology, 2003: This study was conducted at the Brigham & Women's
Hospital in Boston. It studied the affects of diet on the formation of
kidney stones among 96,000 women for 8 years in the Nurses Health Study.
They found that high sugar intakes significantly increased the risk of
developing kidney stones among women. They also noted that the intake of
animal proteins did not raise kidney stone risk. They were surprised to
find that dietary calcium (not supplements) intake lowered the risk of
stones."

See: http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=207

I stand by my comments.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

You got that right Roger. Most of the biggest detractors know very
little about it, and gman is ****ed because Dr. Atkins, Bernstein, etc.,
make money off their books and/or products. Oh horrors. :-)

--
Cheri
Type 2, no meds for now.

gman99 wrote: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you
have your
:: kidneys checked regularly !!

Roger Zoul wrote: Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On 5 Mar 2004 17:42:40 GMT, Ignoramus15020
:: wrote:
::
::: In article , gman99 wrote:
:::: "Carmen" wrote:
::::: Hi,
::::: On 5-Mar-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::: GMan's nattering snipped
:::::::: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you have
:::::: your kidneys checked regularly !!
::::::
:::::: Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.
:::::
::::: It may be time for ASDLC to institute the IOM Award. G
:::::
::::: Take care,
::::: Carmen
::::
:::: Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read ALL
:::: of
:::: the
:::: information presented !! The original poster identified themself
:::: as a diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means that
:::: they make
:::: up
:::: the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are
:::: at
:::: HIGHER
:::: risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better
:::: make
:::: sure
:::: their kidney function is good and stays good.
:::
::: I tend to side with you gman. Calorie restriction, exercise and
::: weight
::: loss does improve insulin sensitivity and slows development of
::: diabetes, according to a well known diabetes intervention study.
:::
:::
http://www.3fatchicks.com/diet-toolb...-diabetes.html
:::
::: Low carbing can have various benefits, which I do not deny. I am
::: saying this to prevent someone not logically incluned from implying
::: that Iwas against low carbing, from the previous paragraph.
:::
::: Some people here tend to attack others in packs, without really
::: thinking very hard about the issues presented, or bothering to
::: actually read articles and studies.

I don't think you think hard about anything Ig.

:::
::: i
:: What about this:
::

Ig won't read or pay attention. He plays the numbers game. You count the
number of article that say this, then count the number that say that. The
one with the greater number must be right. Nothing else matters.

Sigh....


:: "From the Indiana University and the journal Diabetes Care, 2002:
:: These researchers from the school of medicine studied the effects of
:: eating
:: animal protein versus eating plant proteins on diabetic subjects who
:: had
:: too much of the protein albumin in their urine (an indicator of
:: reduced
:: kidney function). The researchers found there were no significant
:: differences between the two diets on kidney function. They also
:: noted that total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, triglyceride levels,
:: glucose levels, insulin levels, blood pressure, or the level of
:: amino acids in the blood remained unchanged on the animal protein
:: diet. In both diets, total cholesterol, blood glucose, and blood
:: pressure fell. They concluded that
:: there is no clear advantage in recommending only plant proteins to
:: people
:: who have diabetes and reduced kidney function."
::
:: "From the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Denmark and
:: the International Journal of Obesity, 1999: The researchers
:: conducted this
:: study to assess the renal affects of high vs low protein diets. They
:: found moderate adaptive alterations in renal size but found no
:: indications of adverse affects on kidney function."
::
:: "From Harvard University Medical School and The American Society of
:: Nephrology, 2003: This study was conducted at the Brigham & Women's
:: Hospital in Boston. It studied the affects of diet on the formation
:: of
:: kidney stones among 96,000 women for 8 years in the Nurses Health
:: Study.
:: They found that high sugar intakes significantly increased the risk
:: of developing kidney stones among women. They also noted that the
:: intake of animal proteins did not raise kidney stone risk. They were
:: surprised to
:: find that dietary calcium (not supplements) intake lowered the risk
:: of stones."
::
:: See: http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=207
::
:: I stand by my comments.
::
:: --
:: Bob in CT
:: Remove ".x" to reply

"gman99" wrote in message
...
"Carmen" wrote:
Hi,
On 5-Mar-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
GMan's nattering snipped
:: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you have
your kidneys checked regularly !!

Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.

It may be time for ASDLC to institute the IOM Award. G

Take care,
Carmen

Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read ALL of the
information presented !! The original poster identified themself as a
diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means that they make up
the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are at
HIGHER
risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better make
sure
their kidney function is good and stays good.

I don't normally agree with you gman, but this time I do! Kidney function
tests are vital for diabetics, regardless of what type of diet they are on.

--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Ignoramus15020 wrote:
:: In article , Bob in CT
:: wrote:
::: On 5 Mar 2004 17:42:40 GMT, Ignoramus15020
::: wrote:
:::
:::: In article , gman99 wrote:
::::: "Carmen" wrote:
:::::: Hi,
:::::: On 5-Mar-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
:::::: GMan's nattering snipped
::::::::: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you have
::::::: your kidneys checked regularly !!
:::::::
::::::: Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.
::::::
:::::: It may be time for ASDLC to institute the IOM Award. G
::::::
:::::: Take care,
:::::: Carmen
:::::
::::: Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read
::::: ALL of
::::: the
::::: information presented !! The original poster identified themself
::::: as a diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means
::::: that they make
::::: up
::::: the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are
::::: at
::::: HIGHER
::::: risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better
::::: make
::::: sure
::::: their kidney function is good and stays good.
::::
:::: I tend to side with you gman. Calorie restriction, exercise and
:::: weight
:::: loss does improve insulin sensitivity and slows development of
:::: diabetes, according to a well known diabetes intervention study.
::::
::::
http://www.3fatchicks.com/diet-toolb...-diabetes.html
::::
:::: Low carbing can have various benefits, which I do not deny. I am
:::: saying this to prevent someone not logically incluned from implying
:::: that Iwas against low carbing, from the previous paragraph.
::::
:::: Some people here tend to attack others in packs, without really
:::: thinking very hard about the issues presented, or bothering to
:::: actually read articles and studies.
::::
:::: i
::: What about this:
:::
::: "From the Indiana University and the journal Diabetes Care, 2002:
::: These researchers from the school of medicine studied the effects
::: of eating
::: animal protein versus eating plant proteins on diabetic subjects
::: who had
::: too much of the protein albumin in their urine (an indicator of
::: reduced kidney function). The researchers found there were no
::: significant
::: differences between the two diets on kidney function. They also
::: noted that total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, triglyceride levels,
::: glucose levels, insulin levels, blood pressure, or the level of
::: amino acids in the blood remained unchanged on the animal protein
::: diet. In both diets, total cholesterol, blood glucose, and blood
::: pressure fell. They concluded that there is no clear advantage in
::: recommending only plant proteins to people
::: who have diabetes and reduced kidney function."
::
:: I am not sure what is the relevance of this study. They compared
:: animal and plant proteins. I or gman99 never made any claims about
:: respective value of plant vs. animal protein.

How many comments have you made recently about overeating meat? I see none
from you about overeating protein or plant matter.

"Carmen" wrote in message
...

Nominate myself? Not eligible. I, like a number of others in ASDLC,
am a lowcarbing diabetic. There's no evidence that low carbing harms
healthy kidneys.
Staying within a tightly controlled BG range is the best way to avoid
diabetic complications such as kidney disease. Some of us find low
carbing and exercise effective tools for doing so while avoiding
medication. We speak from experience.

Who said that low carbing harmed kidneys? I didn't see that posted. This
whole sniping thread came about because someone (now I forget who it was)
said that low carbers needed to forget about the kidney function tests.
These tests are vital for diabetics regardless of our diet because diabetics
in general are more prone to having kidney problems.
--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:23:58 -0500, Julie Bove
wrote:





"gman99" wrote in message
...
"Carmen" wrote:
Hi,
On 5-Mar-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
GMan's nattering snipped
:: Twenty a day is VERY difficult to maintain, make sure you have
your kidneys checked regularly !!

Obviously, you know little if anything about LCing.

It may be time for ASDLC to institute the IOM Award. G

Take care,
Carmen

Going to nominate yourself ?? Maybe all you idiots should read ALL of
the
information presented !! The original poster identified themself as a
diabetic who is low carbing. Low carbing typically means that they make
up
the calories with a combination of FAT and PROTEIN. Diabetics are at
HIGHER
risk of kidney disease...therefore, one on a low carb diet better make
sure
their kidney function is good and stays good.

I don't normally agree with you gman, but this time I do! Kidney
function
tests are vital for diabetics, regardless of what type of diet they are
on.


But then why is low carb worse than the recommended low fat? It's one
thing to say, "Diabetics need to have tests to ensure proper kidney
function" but it's another to say, "Diabetics need to have tests to ensuer
proper kidney function when they are on low carb." My problem is that
this makes it sound as if low carb is bad for kidney function, when it
turns out that low carb is good for kidney function. Granted, diabetics
should have lots of tests (including blood sugar and the one to which this
thread is dedicated), but just because you're on low carb and not low fat
doesn't mean that you have to freak out about getting your blood tested.
In fact, I'll bet you that a diabetic following the recommended low fat
diet should have more tests than a diabetic following a low carb diet.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Julie Bove wrote:
:: "Carmen" wrote in message
:: ...
::
::: Nominate myself? Not eligible. I, like a number of others in
::: ASDLC,
::: am a lowcarbing diabetic. There's no evidence that low carbing
::: harms healthy kidneys.
::: Staying within a tightly controlled BG range is the best way to
::: avoid diabetic complications such as kidney disease. Some of us
::: find low carbing and exercise effective tools for doing so while
::: avoiding medication. We speak from experience.
::
:: Who said that low carbing harmed kidneys? I didn't see that posted.
:: This whole sniping thread came about because someone (now I forget
:: who it was) said that low carbers needed to forget about the kidney
:: function tests.

Who said that? Gman is the one who implied that because LCers eat mostly
FAT and Protein -- the implication being that this is is bad for the
kidneys -- and that since diabetics are known to have issues with kidneys,
that combining both is more reason to get your kidney function tested.

There is no other way to interpert what he said since the OP was clearly
improving via LC -- which he wants to claim is not the reason for the
improvemtns.

These tests are vital for diabetics regardless of
:: our diet because diabetics in general are more prone to having
:: kidney problems. --

There is a widely held erroneous belief that LCing is bad on the kidneys.


:: Type 2
:: http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/