Too much protein in one meal ups insulin?

Hi There,

I'm reading around and on lowcarbfriends, someone mentioned that a
intake more then 42 grms of protein (in one meal) will spike
insulin?
I'm looking around and finding mixed messages....

Also , I wanted to buy some protein powder, I usually buy whey powder,
but now I'm being told that it also may create an insulin spike
despite being low carb. Is this something I should be concerned
about? Is egg protein powder better for lowcarbing?

Thanks kindly

Liam T. wrote:
Hi There,

I'm reading around and on lowcarbfriends, someone mentioned that a
intake more then 42 grms of protein (in one meal) will spike
insulin?
I'm looking around and finding mixed messages....

Also , I wanted to buy some protein powder, I usually buy whey powder,
but now I'm being told that it also may create an insulin spike
despite being low carb. Is this something I should be concerned
about? Is egg protein powder better for lowcarbing?

Thanks kindly

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm#4p

Excess protein creates excess glucose. But what's excess for one person may
not be excess for another.
--
Jeri
"Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."

"Liam T." wrote in message
...
Hi There,

I'm reading around and on lowcarbfriends, someone mentioned that a
intake more then 42 grms of protein (in one meal) will spike
insulin?
I'm looking around and finding mixed messages....

Also , I wanted to buy some protein powder, I usually buy whey powder,
but now I'm being told that it also may create an insulin spike
despite being low carb. Is this something I should be concerned
about? Is egg protein powder better for lowcarbing?

Thanks kindly

I don't know.

However, a 50 gram dose of protein powder makes me feel lethargic for a
short time very much like the crash from a sugar surge. I find that 25 gram
doses of protein powder have no subjective effect.

An insulin response to protein might be a good wild guess.

"Jeri" wrote:
Liam T. wrote:

I'm reading around and on lowcarbfriends, someone mentioned that a
intake more then 42 grms of protein (in one meal) *will spike
insulin?

Also , I wanted to buy some protein powder, I usually buy whey powder,
but now I'm being told that it also may create an insulin spike
despite being low carb. *Is this something I should be concerned
about? *Is egg protein powder better for lowcarbing?

Excess protein creates excess glucose. But what's excess for one person may
not be excess for another.

Fat burned releases about 10% of its energy as glucose. The
daily need for fat for building cell membranes and nerves and
so on is a few grams of polyunsaturates. The excess dietary
fat tends to get stored rather than burned.

Protein burned releases about 50% of its energy as glucose.
The daily need for protein is lower than most Americans eat
and definitely higher than daily fat needs. The excess dietary
protein tends to get burned rather than stored.

These issues combine to explain why when you do the arithmatic
low carb plans tend to be high fat not high protein. There's also
the issue that calorie for calorie fat and protein are roughly as
filling. Calorie for calorie many think fat does a better job of
keeping hunger from coming back. Calorie for calorie fat tends
to trigger more glucagon release and thus better loss.

Does this mean using protin powder is a bad idea? Not really.
It means it's less effective than other methods but it is easy
and it does work. But it is very easy to eat enough protein
to get an excess and the excess ends up 50% glucose by
calories.

No, someone misunderstands the insulin index of foods. *Protein causes
more insulin release than carbs do, with fish causing the highest
amount, but not in a spike the way carbs do, but rather over a longer,
more prolonged period, which is why it won't spike blood glucose or insulin.

About 58%of the protein you eat is converted to glucose, too, hence the
wisdom of hormonally neutral fat in your diet to a generous degree.

Susan

Thanks for all the replies.....Susan ...the author of the post claims
she got the information off: "The International Academy of Physique
Conditioning (IAPC) states this in their book"
So I don't know.....I don't know who they are...if reputable or not.
(or perhaps she misunderstood what she was reading)
But thanks

john wrote:

I agree with your comments about fat, but *protein is converted to
glucose ONLY IF THE BODY NEEDS IT. *Here is a quote from "Diabetes
Solution" by Bernstein, M.D.

It's interesting how you define need in your quote below.

"Protein foods are only about 20 percent protein by weight (6 grams
per ounce", the rest being fat, water, or undigestible "gristle." *The
liver, instructed by the hormone glucagon, can ...very slowly...
transform as much as 52 percent of the above 6 grams per ounce into
glucose IF BLOOD SUGAR DESCENDS TOO LOW OR
THE BODY'S OTHER AMINO ACID NEEDS HAVE BEEN MET."

You clearly do not understand the meaning of the word "OR" in
your quote above.

1) The body will convert protein to glucose if blood sugar goes
too low. This happens independent of the body's amino acid
needs for protein building and as such it is a metabolic starvation
response - The body burns lean faster than it burns fat because
in a famine the people whose metabolism drops as fast as
possible are the ones still alive next year when the harvest
happens.

2) The body will convert protein to glucose when the needs for
amino acids for protein building have been met. This is
independent of blood sugar level and as such is a metabolic
response to *excess* protein calories.

In other words, excess protein is converted to glucose, just
like posters have written. The word "excess" matters, just
like the word "OR" matters in your quote.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

john wrote:

I agree with your comments about fat, but *protein is converted to
glucose ONLY IF THE BODY NEEDS IT. *Here is a quote from "Diabetes
Solution" by Bernstein, M.D.

It's interesting how you define need in your quote below.

"Protein foods are only about 20 percent protein by weight (6 grams
per ounce", the rest being fat, water, or undigestible "gristle." *The
liver, instructed by the hormone glucagon, can ...very slowly...
transform as much as 52 percent of the above 6 grams per ounce into
glucose IF BLOOD SUGAR DESCENDS TOO LOW OR
THE BODY'S OTHER AMINO ACID NEEDS HAVE BEEN MET."

You clearly do not understand the meaning of the word "OR" in
your quote above.

1) The body will convert protein to glucose if blood sugar goes
too low. This happens independent of the body's amino acid
needs for protein building and as such it is a metabolic starvation
response - The body burns lean faster than it burns fat because
in a famine the people whose metabolism drops as fast as
possible are the ones still alive next year when the harvest
happens.

2) The body will convert protein to glucose when the needs for
amino acids for protein building have been met. This is
independent of blood sugar level and as such is a metabolic
response to *excess* protein calories.

In other words, excess protein is converted to glucose, just
like posters have written. The word "excess" matters, just
like the word "OR" matters in your quote.


Thank you, Doug, for your astute comments and I agree with you. I
have posted this quote several times in this group and have never been
challenged before. Which made me wonder if anybody even read my
message.

Dr. Bernstein was explaining that "you can quite easily survive on a
diet in which you would eat no carbohydrate." And he went on to point
out that the two dietary sources of blood sugar are carbohydrates and
protein, and you can meet your carbohydrate needs by eating protein
(and fats) only; leading to the quote above.

Thanks again for you edifying comments.

john wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

In other words, excess protein is converted to glucose, just
like posters have written. The word "excess" matters, just
like the word "OR" matters in your quote.

Thank you, Doug, for your astute comments and I agree with you. I
have posted this quote several times in this group and have never been
challenged before. Which made me wonder if anybody even read my
message.

The question becomes how much carb, protein or fat is
just barely enough and when does it start to be excess.
It's not an easy question to answer because if you take
the essential amount of dietary carbs (zero), dietary
polyunsaturated fatty acids (ten of grams), dietary protein
(tens of grams) the total isn't enough total calories for the
day. So metabolic excess isn't caloric excess. Not a
simple system because of that.

Dr. Bernstein was explaining that "you can quite easily survive on a
diet in which you would eat no carbohydrate." And he went on to point
out that the two dietary sources of blood sugar are carbohydrates and
protein, and you can meet your carbohydrate needs by eating protein
(and fats) only; leading to the quote above.

Consider that carb, protein and fat each have different ways
to handle and store excess grams.

Carb - Can be synthesized so is not essential. Excess carbs
can be stored as glycogen but the amount that can be stored
is very limited. Low fat plans tend to keep the storage maxed
out; low carb plans tend to keep the storage minned out close
to zero. Excess is converted to saturated fat for storage in a
process that's metabolically inefficient - This is the metabolic
edge of low fat plans. When carb stores are near zero the
cravings for carb disappear - This is the appetite suppresion
edge of low carb plans. Carbs are burned at near 100%
efficiency. Dietary carbs may not be essential but the
optimal intake level is not zero - If it were every low carb book
would tell us to do that.

Protein - Certain amino acids can not be synthesized so
protein is essential. Excess protein might have some tiny
amount of storage potential but any such amount is small
even compared to glycogen storage. Daily needs for protein
are in the range of tens of grams and that includes growth of
muscle as well as cellular rebuilding. Excess is converted
to glucose at near 58% efficiency - This is one of the two
sources of blood sugar in people fasting or eating zero carb
diets. Nearly all Americans eat more protein than is needed.

Fat - Certain polyunsaturated amino acids can not be
synthesized so fat is essential. The body can store nearly
unlimited fat. Daily needs for polyunsaturated fatty acids
are the the range of tens of grams for cell membranes,
nerves and cellular processes. The burning of fat for fuel
is not tightly bound to dietary intake the way it is with carbs
and protein. When fat is burned for fuel about 10% of the
energy is in the form of glucose from the glycerol that
binds the fatty acids. The fatty acids can be burned by
converting them the acteyl-CoA slowly for aerobic
respiration and/or by converting them to ketones quickly.
Thus spilling ketones int he urine is a sign that fat is being
burned quickly, not quite directly correlated with fat loss.

The above addresses excess by type but not by total.
Glucose in the blood is driven by type, though.

"Tom G." wrote in

It's almost useless to google for what is correct, because there are
arguments for both. You would think that if it was all so cut and dry,
that there would be no question as to what exactly happens and why it does
so.


Idon'tbelieve there's any absolute numbers in terms of calorie intake or
percentages of food properties.

Bottom line should be, how do you feel?

A sedentary life style with a high carb diet produces Fat, Tired and very
sluggish individuals!

Since I got off my lazy fat ass in June at the age of 49 and started walking
an hour a day and adopted a semi low carb diet(Avoiding junk foods), I've
improved my energy level and dropped 18 pounds.

I'm just eating real food and cut down on my bread consumption, I feel a lot
more energetic these days and it's not that hard to accomplish or stay with
this style of eating.

Most doctors who I have consulted with have recommended whey-protein
shakes on a daily basis. My doctor has me using two scoops of powder
in my morning smoothie, which comes to 50g of Protein. I actually
supplement this with another half scoop of egg-white protein. The one
thing that I try to pay attention to is the quality of the Whey
Protein. Look for 100% organic Whey Isolate that is not sweetened with
sugar alcohols or splenda. (personal choice) Of the options available
to me at my local grocery store I like Jay Robb brand products. They
are natural and only sweetiened with Stevia (a natural calorie free
sweetner that doesn't cause gas and other digestive distress that some
artificial sweetners can produce)


On 2008-08-01 22:49:04 -0500, "Liam T." said:

Hi There,

I'm reading around and on lowcarbfriends, someone mentioned that a
intake more then 42 grms of protein (in one meal) will spike
insulin?
I'm looking around and finding mixed messages....

Also , I wanted to buy some protein powder, I usually buy whey powder,
but now I'm being told that it also may create an insulin spike
despite being low carb. Is this something I should be concerned
about? Is egg protein powder better for lowcarbing?

Thanks kindly