Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

This thread seems to be circling the toilet.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it's not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That's hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don't get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:37:44 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

On 23/08/2011 2:53 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:31:10 +1000,
wrote:

On 22/08/11 3:54 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:31:00 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
Hey - a name I recognise from the last time I was here. Wrong about not
knowing Atkins though - I know it very well. It is effective for weight
loss, it sucks for long term athletic endeavor. You simply aren't competitive.

Athletes don't normally need to lose weight. Some athletes may wish to
increase carb levels during intensive training.

Who, aside from you suggested that athletes need to lose weight?

Frankly, I didn't know what you meant by "long-term athletic
endeavor," and why a low-carb diet would necessarily suck because of
it.

Long term endeavour is anything where someone doesn't give up, when they
decide to do something and stick to it. It is perhaps telling that you
don't understand that.

I didn't understand the context (you speak in tongues), because
there's no reason a person can't eat low-carb and have long-term
athletic endeavors. Still don't, in fact.

I took a guess, because your writing is so arcane that it's hard
to understand exactly what it is that you're trying to say.

Arcane? Do you actually know what that means? There is nothing arcane
about my writing, well not to any normal person.

Yes, arcane. You don't write clearly and distinctly.

The Paleo, Primal, Caveman, etc. diets are essentially the Atkins
diet, and are the new "fad."

What planet are you on? "NEW"?

Earth. And they're newer than Atkins, which was the point.

There are grandmothers who are newer than Atkins - and it wasn't the point.

How interesting, that you never seem to get the point, even when it's
explained to you multiple times. Isw that a French trait?

I always get the point - when there is one. Getting the point does not
mean to agree with someone.

You never get to the point. You always write around it.

Here's another point: Who on this planet gives a **** how "new" or
"old" the Atkins diet is, more than whether it works or not, except
you?

I don't care, I was simply pointing out that the poster was not
accurate about Atkins, wrong in yet another area.

Yet you're unable to point to any proof.

You're a legend in your own mind.

[...]
1863 is the nineteen hundreds. I said the early eighteen hundreds - so
Banting doesn't come into it.

Are you really this stupid? 1863 was not in the 1900s, it's in the
1800s.

Yes, my mistake, I meant eighteenth century not eighteen hundreds. I do
make mistakes sometimes

More times than you know, apparently.

For someone who thinks that 1863 was in the 1900s, you should probably
read more and write less.

I do both, and enjoy doing so. Much as I enjoy having a strong appetite
and appreciating good food.

Few people don't have strong appetites, and few people don't
appreciate good food. And I get to eat a lot of good food on a
low-carb way of eating; food which doesn't make me fat, or negatively
affect my health.

Most of the time, getting attacked by the medical and health
professions is a "good thing," considering how often they are/were
wrong.

Just this morning, I heard a doctor on TV say that eating too much
meat causes diabetes. Really? Eating too many *carbs* causes diabetes.
Eating less carbs and more meat can actually cure diabetes.

Did he have a "PETA" sticker on his car? (On radio you have to listen very
carefully to hear the stickers rustle.)

Funny. He's on Fox News on Sunday mornings. Dr. Isadore Rosenfeld,
perhaps the most uninformed medical doctor I've ever encountered.

There are a lot of them about. Maybe my Mother-in-Law should be a Doctor
- she is uninformed and opinionated but without basis. She thinks that
the Greenhouse effect is a good thing because things grow better in
greenhouses.

I think your mother-in-law is the smarter of the two.
http://www.co2science.org/

[...]
No, not most people. Most stupid people and uninformed people. Which
in France apparently includes the entire population.

Now you are degenerating into puerility. Xenophobia? That really is
immature.

Not xenophobia. Maybe Francophobia. I like Germans, Italians, Swiss,
English, Irish, etc., I just can't stand the French. Generally
speaking. And there's nothing irrational about my feelings for the
French. It's based on my actual experience with French people.

As you can probably tell, I don't bow down to the gods of political
correctness.

[...]
But if you are interested in embroidery or cake decorating, and yet
haven't done any research on embroidery or cake decorating, you're not
only lazy, but ignorant and stupid, and probably French, too.

It is ok, I can understand the American male's resentment of Frenchmen.
If I was to experience a situation where men from another country could
consistently and effortlessly seduce our women I might feel the same.
American women do love a man with a French accent - have you noticed?

Actually, they mostly complain about your body odor, and all the time
you spend gazing at yourselves in the mirror.

[...]
You are right, it is not laughable, to say any author has to have been
inspired by Atkins is ludicrous. You are presupposing that all diet authors
are incapable of independent thinking and research. That is laughable. I
write for a living and have a lot published on diet, and you can probably
guess that Atlkins does not inspire me.

Every doctor who practices medicine today is inspired by Hippocrates.

You really are gullible.

And you're just stupid.

Every athlete who participates in the Olympic Games today is inspired
by the Greek athletes who held competitions in Olympia, Greece almost
3000 years ago. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before
us.

More gullible nonsense, many of them have no knowledge of Greek history
- they just want to win. You seem to have a very unrealistic, yet
romantic view of life.

I'd rather have a romantic, albeit accurate, view of life than a
cynical one.

Nota bene: It's frightening to think that you write for a living.

Boo!

And that's another good example of it.

[...]
What makes Harvard or Yale special? Wasn't it Harvard, including Dr.
Walter Willet, who as recently as the late 80s, were telling people to
eat margarine (transfat, etc.) and to stop eating butter, because
margarine was "cholesterol free"? That Harvard?

Here's a video you should watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vr-c...layer_embedded

It's called "How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity
Epidemic."

You might learn something.

Nothing new there - all very old territory.

Yeah, riiiight.

I try hard not to use any words with French roots, because when I do,
I throw up in my mouth a little.

You must really struggle then - either that or have very eroded teeth.

It's quite possible, even easy, to go for months without speaking a
word with a French root.

I don't like to throw up in my mouth.

No, I don't much care for the French,
because so many of them are like you. Pompous, arrogant, stupid,
ungrateful, and smelly.

Smelly? You don't like Aramis?

Smells more like cow dung to me.

Stupid? I have been a member of Mensa since my early teens.

Hmmmm. If I had a dollar for everyone who claimed to be in Mensa, I'd
have approximately 7 billion dollars.

Arrogant, yes, it is hard not to be sometimes when dealing with Americans.

That's the way we like it. My distaste of the French is a distaste
that's shared by many Americans. Perhaps most.

No we wouldn't. It would have taken us a while longer to gain our
freedom, but we'd have gotten it eventually.

How? You have never won a war that you started, not unaided. Why would
that change?

We don't generally start wars, but we're pretty good at ending them.

What the French did do
back then is appreciated, but it's the last kind thought (with the
possible exception of Brigette Bardot) I've ever had about a French
person.

She wouldn't like you - she respects honesty and intellect. (And Dukan
if the gossips are correct.)

I don't want to have a relationship with her. I just want to screw
her.

PS: Have you ever thanked the Anglos who saved your French asses from
the Germans? You'd be preaching the merits of the German language
today, not French, were it not for all those A-N-G-L-O-S.

Yes I have. My grandfather was one of them. He was born in Texas.

Good. There may be hope for you yet.

By the way, how do you say "I surrender!" in French? Heh.

Ask any of your women who visit our country. They are good at it. (And
quick at it too.)

Considering how French women greeted American soldiers during WW II,
they're probably still praying for our return.

I will be in your country next month, New York and Boston. My wife does
not like me going there because American woman are so easy when it comes
to Frenchmen. I will see if she is right - yet again.

They're pretty easy for just about everyone, so don't flatter
yourself.

Tip: When you're in Boston, find a good Irish pub near Boston Garden
and yell "Vive les Habitants!" in your strongest French accent. See
how that works out for you.

--
Dogman

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 05:55:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 23, 5:37*am, Who_me? wrote:
On 23/08/2011 2:53 AM, Dogman wrote:

Arcane? Do you actually know what that means? There is nothing arcane
about my writing, well not to any normal person.

I'd agree with Dogman that not only is much of what you
write arcane, but you won't even address the most
basic and straightforward questions that are of the
most importance.

That's no accident, Trader.

There's just no there there.

--
Dogman

On 23/08/2011 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Aug 23, 5:37 am, wrote:
On 23/08/2011 2:53 AM, Dogman wrote:


Frankly, I didn't know what you meant by "long-term athletic
endeavor," and why a low-carb diet would necessarily suck because of
it.

Long term endeavour is anything where someone doesn't give up, when they
decide to do something and stick to it. It is perhaps telling that you
don't understand that.

I took a guess, because your writing is so arcane that it's hard

to understand exactly what it is that you're trying to say.

Arcane? Do you actually know what that means? There is nothing arcane
about my writing, well not to any normal person.

I'd agree with Dogman that not only is much of what you
write arcane, but you won't even address the most
basic and straightforward questions that are of the
most importance.



Are you really this stupid? 1863 was not in the 1900s, it's in the
1800s.

Yes, my mistake, I meant eighteenth century not eighteen hundreds. I do
make mistakes sometimes - the penalty of working with multiple languages
- but I do happily admit them on such occasions.

Yet one more lie to add to the list. Here is just a partial
list of what you have claimed that is not true and you
have not corrected a single one of them:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

Genetics plays no role in obesity.

The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.


Not only have you refused to correct any one of
them, you won't even answer the most simple
and direct question. I've asked the very question
that goes to the core about 10 times now.
Here it is one more time:

You claim Atkins is unsafe and will damage your
kidneys, while Dukan is safe and effective. How
can that be? What exactly is it that makes it so?
Atkins allows 20g of carbs a day, unlimited protein
and fat during induction, which lasts 2 weeks.
Dukan allows virtually zero carbs and no vegetables
during his attack phase, which lasts from 2 to
7 days. Both put you in ketosis. Both
allow increasing complex carbs
in stages after that. Under Atkins, that would even
include upping carbs during maintenance to your own
personal reqts for sports, yet you claim Atkins
is unhealthy, while Dukan is good.

So, what exactly makes Atkins dangerous and
unhealthy while Dukan is good?
Simple question that you should be able to give
a straight answer to and we are waiting.....


"We" are waiting? A royal plural?

I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said. You are not
asking me about things that I have said, you are putting your words in
my mouth. If you cannot read and comprehend clearly, then there is
little point in responding as you will not comprehend the response.

Look very carefully at what I have actually said and stop replying to
what you think that I might have said, or to what others who fail to
read and comprehend think that I might have said. Ok? I am a very exact
person, you seem to be very sloppy and haphazard in your approach to
discussion.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 02:22:22 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

[...]
I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said.

Psst.

Hey, troll.

You have nobody fooled.

You're all hat; no cattle.

--
Dogman

On Aug 23, 12:22*pm, Who_me? wrote:
On 23/08/2011 10:55 PM, wrote:





On Aug 23, 5:37 am, *wrote:
On 23/08/2011 2:53 AM, Dogman wrote:

Frankly, I didn't know what you meant by "long-term athletic
endeavor," and why a low-carb diet would necessarily suck because of
it.

Long term endeavour is anything where someone doesn't give up, when they
decide to do something and stick to it. It is perhaps telling that you
don't understand that.

* * I took a guess, because your writing is so arcane that it's hard

to understand exactly what it is that you're trying to say.

Arcane? Do you actually know what that means? There is nothing arcane
about my writing, well not to any normal person.

I'd agree with Dogman that not only is much of what you
write arcane, but you won't even address the most
basic and straightforward questions that are of the
most importance.

Are you really this stupid? 1863 was not in the 1900s, it's in the
1800s.

Yes, my mistake, I meant eighteenth century not eighteen hundreds. I do
make mistakes sometimes - the penalty of working with multiple languages
- but I do happily admit them on such occasions.

Yet one more lie to add to the list. *Here is just a partial
list of what you have claimed that is not true and you
have not corrected a single one of them:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

Genetics plays no role in obesity.

The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

Not only have you refused to correct any one of
them, you won't even answer the most simple
and direct question. *I've asked the very question
that goes to the core about 10 times now.
Here it is one more time:

You claim Atkins is unsafe and will damage your
kidneys, while Dukan is safe and effective. *How
can that be? *What exactly is it that makes it so?
Atkins allows 20g of carbs a day, unlimited protein
and fat during induction, which lasts 2 weeks.
Dukan allows virtually zero carbs and no vegetables
during his attack phase, which lasts from 2 to
7 days. *Both put you in ketosis. *Both
allow increasing complex carbs
in stages after that. *Under Atkins, that would even
include upping carbs during maintenance to your own
* personal reqts for sports, yet you claim Atkins
* is unhealthy, while Dukan is good.

So, what exactly makes Atkins dangerous and
unhealthy while Dukan is good?
Simple question that you should be able to give
a straight answer to and we are waiting.....

"We" are waiting? A royal plural?

There you go being arcane again instead of answering
the simple question I asked above. The "we" clearly
is all the rest of us who have participated in the thread
the last few days. We who have called you out on
all your BS. That group of we is 7 of us at last count,
most of whom have been here for years and know LC.
We who agree you don't have a clue about what you
are talking about. Must be getting kind of lonely for
you about now. The question goes directly to the core
of the issue and yet you refuse to give an answer.

And while you're at it, now would be a good time
to correct all the falsehoods you put forward as
fact. You claimed that when you were wrong
you did so. Here is a partial list. I'm sure others
can add to it:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

Genetics plays no role in obesity.

The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.



I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said. You are not
asking me about things that I have said, you are putting your words in
my mouth. If you cannot read and comprehend clearly, then there is
little point in responding as you will not comprehend the response.

Look very carefully at what I have actually said and stop replying to
what you think that I might have said, or to what others who fail to
read and comprehend think that I might have said. Ok? I am a very exact
person, you seem to be very sloppy and haphazard in your approach to
discussion.- Hide quoted text -


It is precisely what you said that we'd all like an answer to.
Since you seem to have forgotten or wish to forget it, let
me help you out. Here is what you said that started this:

"I like a low carb (not ludicrously unhealthy like Atkins) diet"

" I developed a diet that has kept me fit for decades, and
recently I have seen that it is very similar to the much vaunted Dr
Dukan's
diet."

You went on to do everything you could to bash Atkins,
while being very postitive towards Dukan.

So, if you're not a troll, what exactly makes Atkins
dangerous and unhealthy while Dukan is OK? A simple question
that you should be able to give a straight answer to
and we are waiting.....

On 24/08/2011 7:35 AM, wrote:
On Aug 23, 12:22 pm, wrote:
On 23/08/2011 10:55 PM, wrote:





On Aug 23, 5:37 am, wrote:
On 23/08/2011 2:53 AM, Dogman wrote:

Frankly, I didn't know what you meant by "long-term athletic
endeavor," and why a low-carb diet would necessarily suck because of
it.

Long term endeavour is anything where someone doesn't give up, when they
decide to do something and stick to it. It is perhaps telling that you
don't understand that.

I took a guess, because your writing is so arcane that it's hard

to understand exactly what it is that you're trying to say.

Arcane? Do you actually know what that means? There is nothing arcane
about my writing, well not to any normal person.

I'd agree with Dogman that not only is much of what you
write arcane, but you won't even address the most
basic and straightforward questions that are of the
most importance.

Are you really this stupid? 1863 was not in the 1900s, it's in the
1800s.

Yes, my mistake, I meant eighteenth century not eighteen hundreds. I do
make mistakes sometimes - the penalty of working with multiple languages
- but I do happily admit them on such occasions.

Yet one more lie to add to the list. Here is just a partial
list of what you have claimed that is not true and you
have not corrected a single one of them:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

Genetics plays no role in obesity.

The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

Not only have you refused to correct any one of
them, you won't even answer the most simple
and direct question. I've asked the very question
that goes to the core about 10 times now.
Here it is one more time:

You claim Atkins is unsafe and will damage your
kidneys, while Dukan is safe and effective. How
can that be? What exactly is it that makes it so?
Atkins allows 20g of carbs a day, unlimited protein
and fat during induction, which lasts 2 weeks.
Dukan allows virtually zero carbs and no vegetables
during his attack phase, which lasts from 2 to
7 days. Both put you in ketosis. Both
allow increasing complex carbs
in stages after that. Under Atkins, that would even
include upping carbs during maintenance to your own
personal reqts for sports, yet you claim Atkins
is unhealthy, while Dukan is good.

So, what exactly makes Atkins dangerous and
unhealthy while Dukan is good?
Simple question that you should be able to give
a straight answer to and we are waiting.....

"We" are waiting? A royal plural?

There you go being arcane again instead of answering
the simple question I asked above. The "we" clearly
is all the rest of us who have participated in the thread
the last few days.

You have been elected spokesperson. Ok, but I think that the election
was rigged. g

(I really don't think that you grasp the true meaning of the word
"arcane". I think that you confuse it with obtuse. I can sometimes be
deliberately obtuse - if I choose to wind someone up. Arcane means that
you lack the ability to understand me, that you are missing some
knowledge or experience that is required to understand me.)

We who have called you out on
all your BS. That group of we is 7 of us at last count,
most of whom have been here for years and know LC.

You don't seem to know LC as well as you think that you do. You are
certainly Atkins devotees - as I once was when I first posted in this
group. I learned from my mistake and moved on from there. I then found
things that worked without the limitations inherent in the Atkins regimen.

We who agree you don't have a clue about what you
are talking about. Must be getting kind of lonely for
you about now. The question goes directly to the core
of the issue and yet you refuse to give an answer.

You haven't asked a question that had not already been answered.

And while you're at it, now would be a good time
to correct all the falsehoods you put forward as
fact. You claimed that when you were wrong
you did so. Here is a partial list. I'm sure others
can add to it:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

It doesn't in this country or the other countries that I regularly spend
time in. I have seen no health food stores in France, Sweden, the UK,
Australia, or New Zealand who carry their products - not since the mid
00's. If it exists then it is far more limited in scope - it is no
longer international. It was "officially" shut down several years ago.
If it rose Phoenix-like from the ashes, then it is now hovering pretty
close to the ground.

Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

See above.

Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

They did - in a statement to the courts when filing for protection
against their creditors. They owed a lot of money and had near zero
income. It was widely discussed in various forms of health media at the
time.


Genetics plays no role in obesity.

Usually not, though a great many fat people claim that it does. You
can't be fat without overeating, yet many claim to eat like sparrows or
something similar. I have had a great many people tell me over several
decades that they eat less than I do. Sure, when eating a meal at the
same table they might make a point of doing that, but it is IMPOSSIBLE
to gain and maintain more weight than another person without consuming
or failing to burn more calories. How many fat people walked out of
concentration camps? If it was truly possible for some people to be fat
on a calorie restricted diet, at least some of those prisoners would
have been fat. My in-laws spent several years in one and commented on
how many of those who had been fat rapidly became as gaunt as everyone
else. I guess the fat person with the bird-like appetite is a myth?

The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

No they don't, have a chat to an Endocrinologist or a Cardiologist.
Anyone who is long-term fat or obese has impaired liver, kidney and
heart function. It is listed as one of the risk factors for obesity.



I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said. You are not
asking me about things that I have said, you are putting your words in
my mouth. If you cannot read and comprehend clearly, then there is
little point in responding as you will not comprehend the response.

Look very carefully at what I have actually said and stop replying to
what you think that I might have said, or to what others who fail to
read and comprehend think that I might have said. Ok? I am a very exact
person, you seem to be very sloppy and haphazard in your approach to
discussion.- Hide quoted text -


It is precisely what you said that we'd all like an answer to.
Since you seem to have forgotten or wish to forget it, let
me help you out. Here is what you said that started this:

"I like a low carb (not ludicrously unhealthy like Atkins) diet"

True. I do. I eat no refined carbs at all. No carbs that do not come
from fruit and vegetables. No flour, no sugar, no cornstarch, i.e., no
pasta, no bakery products, (other than occasional "flat" bread as is
used in wraps) etc. I do not eat potatoes or rice regularly, but do on
days where I am going to be working out or competing, and then they are
saturated with oil or fat to slow down blood sugar spiking. It is the
spikes that do damage. I do eat small amounts of brown rice and barley
in soups.


" I developed a diet that has kept me fit for decades, and
recently I have seen that it is very similar to the much vaunted Dr
Dukan's
diet."

It is very similar in a number of areas. It is not as severe nor is the
initial stage as long as the initial stages of many other low carb diets
where nearly all carbs, even those in fresh produce are banned. I have
said several times that I have not followed the Dukan diet, I would not
follow any diet for any length of time that has a near total carb
restriction, although I do have occasional total fast days. The day to
day diet of many who have followed the Dukan diet for several decades is
similar to mine. The Dukan "relaxed" days are also something that I have
done for years, those are the days where I will eat more carbs than
normal, followed by several with less. On such days I might eat more
fruit with high fructose content - I love Mangoes for instance, and grow
my own, but they have a pretty high carb content.

You went on to do everything you could to bash Atkins,
while being very postitive towards Dukan.

No, I was not being positive toward Dukan, I was being "ACCURATE" about
some misleading claims about Dukan. After my experience with Atkins I
would not regard any diet that has a high carb restriction in a positive
light. Atkins is the only one I tried, and in just a few months I lost a
massive amount of weight - from a starting BMI that was medium to low. I
lost a lot of muscle mass - even though during the process I worked out
daily. I lost strength and endurance. I don't like any highly
restrictive, ketosis inducing diet, but I do like eating low carb.
Although Dukan is not as intense in effect or duration as Atkins, though
it was claimed that it was, I still would not recommend it in its
entirety. I have suggested to a few people that they use the diet but
bypass the initial stages, mostly because it is well known and popular
where I live. It still works, but not as rapidly. You do not need to
shock the body by inducing ketosis.


So, if you're not a troll, what exactly makes Atkins
dangerous and unhealthy while Dukan is OK?

A bit like eating poison - all poison is bad, but obviously, eating less
is better than eating more.

A simple question
that you should be able to give a straight answer to
and we are waiting.....


If you actually read exactly what I have said, the answers have been
there all along.

On 23/08/2011 8:07 AM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:


So were my uncles, but they also chose to serve their country in a
righteous war.
Tell it to the Philippinos, Cubans, and Puerto Ricans. Tell us about the
Treaty of Versailles, and colonial expansion in the Pacific. A war to
throw off foreign domination would pass for a righteous war, but we
haven't had one of those since 1812. I don't doubt the patriotism of
those who answer their nation's call. I do doubt the patriotism of those
who call the shots, especially "Here and Now".

Why can't you play "nice" with the other kids?

Because a couple of the other kids are assholes.

Never liked assholes, either.

Asshole.

Putain de connard, foutre le camp.

Ne vous embrassez votre mère avec cette bouche?

On 24/08/2011 2:30 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 02:22:22 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said.

Psst.

Hey, troll.

You have nobody fooled.

You're all hat; no cattle.



Like a lost cowboy?

On Aug 23, 11:47*pm, Who_me? wrote:


There you go being arcane again instead of answering
the simple question I asked above. *The "we" clearly
is all the rest of us who have participated in the thread
the last few days.

(I really don't think that you grasp the true meaning of the word
"arcane". I think that you confuse it with obtuse. I can sometimes be
deliberately obtuse - if I choose to wind someone up. Arcane means that
you lack the ability to understand me, that you are missing some
knowledge or experience that is required to understand me.)

We who have called you out on
all your BS. *That group of we is 7 of us at last count,
most of whom have been here for years and know LC.

You don't seem to know LC as well as you think that you do. You are
certainly Atkins devotees - as I once was when I first posted in this
group. I learned from my mistake and moved on from there. I then found
things that worked without the limitations inherent in the Atkins regimen..

I'd say we are devotees of truth and won't tolerate liars who dredge
up anti-LC crap. The same LC crap that has been used over and
over to attack virtually every LC diet, be it Atkins or Dukan. The
very
crap you put forth. That Atkins will damage your kidneys. That
Atkins was obese when he fell and hit his head, ending his life.
That Atkins Nutritionals is out of business. That Atkins will worsen
your blood lipids.... Doug quickly identified you as a clown
when you first brought up the crap about kidney damage. It's
about a good a litmus test as one can find to spot an anti-
LC troll.



We who agree you don't have a clue about what you
* are talking about. *Must be getting kind of lonely for
you about now. The question goes directly *to the core
* of the issue and yet you refuse to give an answer.

You haven't asked a question that had not already been answered.


And one more evasion of the question, which is to explain
what makes Atkins dangerous and unhealthy, while Dukan
is good.



* And while you're at it, now would be a good time
to correct all the falsehoods you put forward as
fact. *You claimed that when you were wrong
you did so. * Here is a partial list. *I'm sure others
can add to it:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

It doesn't in this country or the other countries that I regularly spend
time in.

Are you stupid? Whether a product exists in some countries
or not has no bearing on whether the company exists. Following
that logic, Peugeot is no longer in business because their cars
are not sold in the USA.



I have seen no health food stores in France, Sweden, the UK,
Australia, or New Zealand who carry their products - not since the mid
00's. If it exists then it is far more limited in scope - it is no
longer international.

You are an unbelievable ignoramus. IF IT EXISTS? You made a
false claim that is libelous. I even gave you the link to Atkins
Nutritional that shows they exist.
You do know how the internet works, do you not?
Here's another clue too. All along many of us have
ordered LC products
of one kind or another from online suppliers because we could
not find them locally. I guess that's expecting too much from
the French in 2011.



It was "officially" shut down several years ago.
If it rose Phoenix-like from the ashes, then it is now hovering pretty
close to the ground.

Another libelous lie. Have you no shame in continuing
to make an ass of yourself? Kindly provide us with a
link that says Atkins Nutritional was officially shut down
several years ago. Like everything else you
claim, no link will be forthcoming. Perhaps being an
ignoramus, you've confused bankruptcy
with shutting down and going out of business.





Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

See above.



Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

They did - in a statement to the courts when filing for protection
against their creditors. They owed a lot of money and had near zero
income. It was widely discussed in various forms of health media at the
time.



Then it should be easy for you to back that up with a
link, troll. As usual, no such link will be forthcoming.





Genetics plays no role in obesity.

Usually not,

That's a shift. Maybe there is hope for you yet.


though a great many fat people claim that it does. You
can't be fat without overeating, yet many claim to eat like sparrows or
something similar. I have had a great many people tell me over several
decades that they eat less than I do. Sure, when eating a meal at the
same table they might make a point of doing that, but it is IMPOSSIBLE
to gain and maintain more weight than another person without consuming
or failing to burn more calories.

But then again, I think there is no hope. It's quite incredible.
I can see why you think everyone else is lying though. It's
because you're such prolific liar yourself. Why, in this thread
you even proudly told us how you plan on cheating on your
wife again when you come to the USA.



How many fat people walked out of
concentration camps? If it was truly possible for some people to be fat
on a calorie restricted diet, at least some of those prisoners would
have been fat. My in-laws spent several years in one and commented on
how many of those who had been fat rapidly became as gaunt as everyone
else. I guess the fat person with the bird-like appetite is a myth?

You can't possibly be this stupid and still be alive.
You've taken a unique situation where people were
forced into eating virtually nothing. Of course if you
put people in a cage and only give them 200 calories
a day, they will starve to death. That has no
appicability to the real world, where people are
surrounded by food. You make the arrogant assumption
that all people have the same metabolisms, the
same appetites, the same reaction to high carb
foods. They do not.





The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

No they don't, have a chat to an Endocrinologist or a Cardiologist.
Anyone who is long-term fat or obese has impaired liver, kidney and
heart function. It is listed as one of the risk factors for obesity.



No, it's not up to any of us to have a chat. It's up to you
to provide a link to a credible reference. I've provided many
in this thread. You, not a one.



I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said. You are not
asking me about things that I have said, you are putting your words in
my mouth. If you cannot read and comprehend clearly, then there is
little point in responding as you will not comprehend the response.

Look very carefully at what I have actually said and stop replying to
what you think that I might have said, or to what others who fail to
read and comprehend think that I might have said. Ok? I am a very exact
person, you seem to be very sloppy and haphazard in your approach to
discussion.- Hide quoted text -

It is precisely what you said that we'd all like an answer to.
Since you seem to have forgotten or wish to forget it, let
me help you out. *Here is what you said that started this:

"I like a low carb (not ludicrously unhealthy like Atkins) diet"


" I developed a diet that has kept me fit for decades, and
recently I have seen that it is very similar to the much vaunted Dr
Dukan's
diet."

It is very similar in a number of areas. It is not as severe nor is the
initial stage as long as the initial stages of many other low carb diets
where nearly all carbs, even those in fresh produce are banned.

Another example of ignorance. Atkins does not ban fresh produce,
even during induction. Yet you claim ATkins is unhealthy, while
Dukan is good. Dukan does ban vegetables during the attack
phase. What;s up with that?


You went on to do everything you could to bash Atkins,
while being very postitive towards Dukan.

No, I was not being positive toward Dukan, I was being "ACCURATE" about
some misleading claims about Dukan.


BS.




After my experience with Atkins I
would not regard any diet that has a high carb restriction in a positive
light.

Strange then that you've spoken so favorably about Dukan
and only now bring up this point. And what exactly is the
difference between "high carb restricition" and "low carb"?
Sounds like more BS word games.





Atkins is the only one I tried, and in just a few months I lost a
massive amount of weight - from a starting BMI that was medium to low. I
lost a lot of muscle mass - even though during the process I worked out
daily. I lost strength and endurance. I don't like any highly
restrictive, ketosis inducing diet, but I do like eating low carb.
Although Dukan is not as intense in effect or duration as Atkins,

Not as intense? Why no. Dukan just has you on an almost pure protein
diet for up to 7 days. No vegetables. You're in ketosis. But
Dukan is good, Atkins bad, right?


We're still waiting for the answer to the direct question:

What exactly makes Atkins dangerous and unhealthy
while Dukan is good? Simple question that you should
be able to give a straight answer to and if you're not just
a troll, we are waiting.....