hi (intro and long)

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:03:05 -0700, "Matthew Venhaus"
wrote:


LisatheSequel wrote in message
...

c.) continue to eat only when I'm hungry

For this to work, you must be able to eat something at any time of the
day and you must always have access to healthy food. If you are unable
to meet one of these requirements you may find that either of the
other two options will work better. In general, routine works better
than "flying by the seat of your pants" and a little planning works
better than very extensive planning or not planning at all.

I inadvertantly deleted the original post before I had time to reply,
but one thought on the "eat only when hungry" approach: This can be a
difficult weight loss strategy, as your body tends to want to maintain
itself, and hence will likely tell you that you're hungry if you feed
it fewer calories than this requires. As a maintenance strategy,
this might work fine (though even in maintenance I don't trust my
body's inner appetite that far :-) ), but it makes it difficult to
achieve fat loss, particularly at your somewhat aggressive desired
rate of 2 lbs/week or so. You might find that you need to impose some
controls on that inner voice.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Lisa, glad that you are here! You have a very good outlook on this whole
weight loss thing and to stay is a start toward a slim you!!! I find a
bunch of strength by being here a lot.
I need to do a lot of self-talk and it really helps me.

Again I commend you for the first step toward thin.

glo

On 16 Jan 2006 08:13:54 -0800, "Doug Freyburger"
wrote:

LisatheSequel wrote:

01/01/06 - 365lbs / 166kg (kg's are approximate)
01/16/06 - 358lbs / 163kg
goal for June 1 - 315lbs / 143kg
goal for Dec. 31st, '06 - 265lbs / 120kg
long term goal - 175lbs / 80kg

Seriously consider switching to *behavioral* goals. The
thing is behavior is controllable but our bodies aren't.
Your body might just decide to get stuck at some weight
for a few months and you'd end up frustrated and start
doing extreme stuff if your goals are in pounds. But if
your goals are in behavior and you're on-process then
you'll have time to do mild stuff during a stall. Extreme
actions tend to cause burn-out.

I'd like to second this. I lost a lot of weight (130 lbs.) without
ever setting any weight goals -- just focused on eating at the desired
level (I was and am a calorie counter, but other methods work too) and
maintaining an exercise schedule. The problem with weight goals is
what happens if -- despite doing everything right -- you don't meet
them. There's a tendency for people to give up when that happens, or
to experience unnecessary doubt or guilt. Just take it a day at a
time, changing your way of life forever.

The question is: to maintain a slow, steady weight loss is
it better to -

a.) eat small servings at regular intervals throughout the
day, no matter if I'm hungry or not

This is more or less my approach, but if I really have no appetite at
all I won't eat. If your meals are fairly small, though, you're
likely to be somewhat hungry at 3 hour intervals or so. This doesn't
mean you should wait until you're ravenous or having hunger pangs.
That's a no-win approach -- just makes you overeat or go for the
"quick hit" sugars and such.

I do make a point of always eating breakfast, but not stuffing myself
at dinner and later pretty much ensures that I wake up hungry.
Anyway, I think breakfast is a habit that's worth developing.

Get that out of your thoughts *today*. Walking IS *real*
exercise.

What he said! Just start moving; don't worry about whether it's
formal exercise. Take baby steps (I don't mean literally :-) ) toward
an active lifestyle.

although I
know I must to get my body past famine mode and into burning
the fat. But that's another post.

Uh, no. You don't need to get *past* famine mode. You need
to trigger loss *without* triggering famine mode.

Right. It's highly unlikely that you're in famine mode if you're just
starting to diet. You want to eat sufficiently to avoid getting into
that mode. Experiement to find a level of eating that allows you to
lose 1-2 pounds per week and you'll be fine.

Good luck, and keep reading and posting!

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Lisa, for me exercise isn't much of an option as I/m in a wheelchair
much of the time. Still I lose weight but at a slower rate than with
exercise. I lift with a 2 lb weight but only with one good arm. I just
refuse to not lose my last few lbs!!!
My eating is OFTEN for OTHER reasons than hunger!!!!! But i'm 8 days
with no binge and my strength holds for now. Try your best and never
give up !!!!!!!!!

glo

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:50:48 +0100, LisatheSequel
wrote:

Black Metal Martha wrote:

Nunya is a wonderful example of how persistent one can be! She has done
wonders and I look up to her advice.

For me what works best, though this is now for everyone, is to eat 5
smaller meals a day. I eat three meals with two snacks. I really pay
attention to serving size and what I eat. For instance, last night
after dinner I was quite hungry, so I had a snack of 11 whole almonds
(yes, I counted) and 1/4 cup diced dried fruit. It was just enough to
tied me over and I still loast a pound from yesterday.


That's a great example of what I meant by small meals. When
I first began toying with the idea of this I got the US
Dept. of Agriculture Food Guide for 2005 and looked at what
constituted a normal-sized serving. Boy was I shocked.
Most restaurants don't even serve normal portions anymore,
and if I go by that guide, just by eating a dinner out
you're sure to get 2-3 times more than you should be eating
to maintain a healthy weight.


Lisa, something you'll see on the list is that I post my food &
exercise every day. This practice was started by another poster a
couple of years ago, and I started with it and have just continued. I
find the accountability helps me a lot. I'm not suggesting you do
this -- though of course you're welcome to -- but am mentioning it
because if you read a few of these you can get some idea of how one
woman eats frequent, smaller meals.

I don't want to suggest that you eat as I do -- for one thing, my body
isn't very tolerant of fruit so I eat less than is desirable -- but it
might give you some sense of portion sizes and how to spread out one's
eating through the day.

You'll probably need more calories than I do, even to lose weight, as
you're heavier (though I ate at about this same level starting out at
262 lbs.). And you're younger, which means your metabolism is likely
faster. (I'm 57.) On the other hand, I exercise a lot more than
you're currently able to do. The key is to experiment a bit with
intake levels and see what leads to a steady loss of 1-2 pounds per
week. It's pretty hard to do this scientifically without counting
something, I think -- calories, carbs, Weight Watchers points, or
whatever. But perhaps you can approximate it without the counting --
which I gather you're wanting to avoid, at least for now.

If you do want to try counting calories, lots of people here really
like using www.fitday.com, a site that supports this. (I use a fairly
elaborate Excel spreadsheet that DH and I created a few years ago.)




Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

"Ignoramus7637" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:52:00 -0500, Carol Frilegh
wrote:
In article , LisatheSequel
wrote:

Black Metal Martha wrote:

Nunya is a wonderful example of how persistent one can be! She has
done
wonders and I look up to her advice.

And do you also like her ongoing attacks on Ignoramus? I don't!

While I appreciate your opinion, as always, I could not care less
about her attacks on me. I simply continue on to enjoy my slim life
and talking to people whom I like.


As I also continue to enjoy my slim and healthy life, simply unafraid to
speak my mind.
--
the volleyballchick

Doug Freyburger wrote:

snipped
Seriously consider switching to *behavioral* goals. The
thing is behavior is controllable but our bodies aren't.

Agreed. Don't have to consider that at all, behavior
modification is the plan - replacing bad habits with good ones.

Notice that your goal was 100 pounds in a year. That's not a
behavorial goal. If you have a behavioral plan you should
write your goals that way: Spend 2 months deciding on a plan.
Stick to that plan a minimum of 9 days in 10 for 6 months.
Then look into trying a different type of plan ...


I never thought of it in those terms before. That sounds
great! Different. Not so dreary and hard.


snipped
No, didn't skip breakfast for many years. More like ate way
too much for breakfast for many years and even though I
wasn't hungry, just because the clock told me it was time to
eat.

Ah. How easy will it be to have a small breakfast then?
If you can have a bowl of oatmeal or two eggs without adding
in toast and juice and whatever, that's going to work out great.
If you can't stay down to a small meal better to skip. Very
much a judgement by experiment issue.


Today was my first small breakfast day plus I counted
calories just out of curiosity. I continue to be amazed how
many calories are in such small amounts, and I begin to see
how I got in this shape because of the amounts I was
consuming before.

I ate at 7:00am and it's 10:00am now and I'm beginning to
feel a little empty. I think I'll have a small apple and
see how that affects me.


snipped
walking
Heh, my husband said just that. He said if I don't raise my
heartbeat and break a sweat it isn't exercise, and since
walking in a level area doesn't do that it isn't exercise.

It's obvious to me he's never walked around in a 365lb body
before so he may not know just what a chore this is.

Or that he's never been out on a 4-mile hike with my Dad or
me. If you're walking your heart rate will go up. If you're not
sweatng by the end of a 4-mile hike in under 65 minutes,
then you're in good enough shape to worry about gyms and
stuff.


He was a career army guy. :-/ Some of the stories he tells
of his training and training others (he was the U.S.
equivalent of Master Drill Sergeant) are so harsh they're
scary. I believe it colors his idea of what's exercise
today so I don't take his opinion too seriously.

Ignoramus7637 wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:51:59 +0100, LisatheSequel wrote:

Ignoramus7637 wrote:



Your weight loss goals are ambitious, but realistic.

It is highly unlikely that you would be able to lose weight by eating
as much as you want, of what you want, in the long run. A limitation
on how much you eat is necessary, in one form or another.


Yep, portion size is the thing. Eating enough, and not
going past that.


If by enough you mean no more than a certain amount, enough to produce
weight loss, then I would agree. Our (fat people) sense of satiety,
unfortunately, does not properly work.


Yep, that's what I meant. Plus, after the weight loss
taking in an amount that will maintain a healthy weight and
not cause gain.

As for sense of satiety, in my case I've ignored it so long
I don't recognize it anymore. It and I are about to be
reacquainted.

Paul Turner wrote:
"LisatheSequel wrote, in part:


Heh, my husband said just that. He said if I don't raise my heartbeat and
break a sweat it isn't exercise, and since walking in a level area doesn't
do that it isn't exercise.

It's obvious to me he's never walked around in a 365lb body before so he
may not know just what a chore this is.


I disagree with your husband. Everybody has to start somewhere and walking
is the logical place to start. It is great exercise in that you can easily
modulate your effort: speed up a bit if you're up to it, slow down or pause
if you find yourself short of breath. Anything that represents more exercise
than you were getting before is a step in the right direction, sweat or no
sweat.

I hope your husband's comment doesn't reflect a tendency on his part to
criticize or make fun of your resolution to try to reach a healthier weight.
I don't think we talk much here about family dynamics and weight loss, but I
don't read everything and I may miss some discussions. It might be
interesting to have a thread on how family members help and hinder our
efforts.


He doesn't hinder, he doesn't participate and it doesn't
really matter. It would be nice to have some side support
but it isn't necessary. I like doing this on my own, for
myself. I don't want to fall in the trap of depending on
the strength or approval of another person. If something
happens to that support it would put a dent in my progress.
I want to be able to continue no matter what.

Chris Braun wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:03:05 -0700, "Matthew Venhaus"
wrote:


LisatheSequel wrote in message
...

c.) continue to eat only when I'm hungry


For this to work, you must be able to eat something at any time of the
day and you must always have access to healthy food. If you are unable
to meet one of these requirements you may find that either of the
other two options will work better. In general, routine works better
than "flying by the seat of your pants" and a little planning works
better than very extensive planning or not planning at all.


I inadvertantly deleted the original post before I had time to reply,
but one thought on the "eat only when hungry" approach: This can be a
difficult weight loss strategy, as your body tends to want to maintain
itself, and hence will likely tell you that you're hungry if you feed
it fewer calories than this requires. As a maintenance strategy,
this might work fine (though even in maintenance I don't trust my
body's inner appetite that far :-) ), but it makes it difficult to
achieve fat loss, particularly at your somewhat aggressive desired
rate of 2 lbs/week or so. You might find that you need to impose some
controls on that inner voice.


I am learning so much here! That makes a great deal of
sense. An excellent argument for eating with the head and
not the stomach (for we overweight folks).

As for aggressive goals, yeah... I realize those may not be
practical. It's more what I'd like to see happen than what
I think will really happen.

I'd be just as pleased with a fifty pound weight loss this
year as with a hundred. As long as there's solid progress
I'll be satisfied.