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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...rt-attack.html Nothing scientific here, of course. We just don't have enough information (yet). But it does serve as an example of just how complex heart disease can be. And also how misinformed a person can be. What kind of oils did he cook his food in? Vegetable oils, which cause inflammation? Trans fats? What was his BP? What was his hsC-RP? What kind of exercise did he get? How much sugar did he eat? Was he on statins? Etc. Etc. Etc. But not eating meat for over three years obviously didn't do him any good, did it? Something (which resulted in CHD, and then a heart attack) killed this guy, and we'll probably never know what it was (but I'm sure there will be lots of conjecture). Nota bene: It's one thing to love animals, but it's something else to love them more than you love yourself. When he said that he learned that "meat stays in your system for years, and it's rotting...," I almost fell out of my chair. Apparently he's never heard of the digestive system, and how it works. http://www.gnolls.org/1444/does-meat...nd-vegetables/ -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition.
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley
wrote: Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition. Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding "high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles, along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics. One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't prevent him from having a heart attack. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
On 2012-07-19 20:31:36 +0000, Dogman said:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley wrote: Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition. Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding "high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles, along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics. One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't prevent him from having a heart attack. -- B. Terry |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care aftersuffering heart attack'
On Jul 19, 4:31*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley wrote: Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition. Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding "high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles, along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics. One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't prevent him from having a heart attack. -- Dogman Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian had a heart attack. No one credible in the real world of science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent 100% of heart attacks. |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Jul 19, 4:31*pm, Dogman wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley wrote: Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition. Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding "high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles, along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics. One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't prevent him from having a heart attack. -- Dogman Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian had a heart attack. No one credible in the real world of science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent 100% of heart attacks. Tru dat (not that you'd know a real scientist if he bit you in the ass). But many "scientists" claim the risk is significantly *lowered* by eating vegetarian and vegan diets. Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for them, to avoid CAD, etc. And that's too bad. And so is taking statins, for the vast majority of us. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care aftersuffering heart attack'
On 2012-07-20, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Jul 19, 4:31Â*pm, Dogman wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley wrote: Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition. Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding "high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles, along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics. One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't prevent him from having a heart attack. -- Dogman Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian had a heart attack. No one credible in the real world of science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent 100% of heart attacks. Tru dat (not that you'd know a real scientist if he bit you in the ass). But many "scientists" claim the risk is significantly *lowered* by eating vegetarian and vegan diets. Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for them, to avoid CAD, etc. Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are vegetarian/vegan? And that's too bad. And so is taking statins, for the vast majority of us. |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
Dogman wrote:
Ivan The Not-So-Bad wrote: Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for them, to avoid CAD, etc. Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are vegetarian/vegan? Not really. It's just a personal hunch based on knowing many vegetarians/vegans. Besides the so-called ethical, religious or political reasons for not wanting to eat animal flesh, eggs, fish, milk, shellfish, cheese, etc., what other reason could there be to want to deprive oneself of some the most nutritious and tasty foods on the planet? Foods that human beings have evolved to eat for millions of years. I suggest that many go vegetarian because they sincerely believe it to be beneficial. Likely their only point of comparison is a diet high in junk food that's so bad even going vegetarian is better. This would make them dupes to the anti-meat propaganda. Demand side rather than supply side. Consider that for decades many pushed margarine because they sincerely believed it was more beneficial than butter. They were wrong but they were in place long enough that many of us grew up in an era of margarine use. Because people tend to like their toddler foods for life we see products that are margarines made with no transfats. Smart Balance. I like it because I have the minority taste of prefering margarine to butter having had margarine as toddler food. At very least the vegetarians are moving away form junk food. Too far away but it is something. And it they are doing because they want health then they should be subject to education. I have no wish to push anyone who is a vegetarian for religious, moral or political reasons to stop. Some reasons are worth the slightly lower health. And people who practice for those reasons tend to follow traditional systems that are well designed so they don't have health impacts. Rather like the few Inuits who still live the traditional hunting lifestyle on the ice are very healthy even though they eat nothing but (very broadly defined) meat for months on end. |
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
In article ,
Dogman wrote: On 25 Jul 2012 00:18:29 GMT, Ivan The Not-So-Bad wrote: [...] Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for them, to avoid CAD, etc. Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are vegetarian/vegan? Not really. It's just a personal hunch based on knowing many vegetarians/vegans. Is your sample sized sufficiently random and large enough? You're interested in nutrition so perhaps that produces sampling errors. Besides the so-called ethical, religious or political reasons for not wanting to eat animal flesh, eggs, fish, milk, shellfish, cheese, etc., what other reason could there be to want to deprive oneself of some the most nutritious and tasty foods on the planet? Foods that human beings have evolved to eat for millions of years. There friends are vegans and they want to maintain and deepen friendships? They are self destructive? They have an aversion to eating in general? -- This space unintentionally left blank. |
#10
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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'
In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote: I have no wish to push anyone who is a vegetarian for religious, moral or political reasons to stop. Some reasons are worth the slightly lower health. And people who practice for those reasons tend to follow traditional systems that are well designed so they don't have health impacts. Rather like the few Inuits who still live the traditional hunting lifestyle on the ice are very healthy even though they eat nothing but (very broadly defined) meat for months on end. But ah, vegans in England ran into problems with B12, because the grains in England did not contain as many insects as in India. A little human dung (or from other animals) in the vegetables also helps. -- This space unintentionally left blank. |
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