Atkins diet may reduce seizures in children with epilepsy

(Diarmid Logan) wrote in message . com...
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-adm120203.php

Contact: Jessica Collins

410-516-4570
Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions

Atkins diet may reduce seizures in children with epilepsy

They've known that since early in the 20th century.

--Bryan 198/149/152/155

What exactly were you eating that you thought you were on the Atkins
diet? Can you give us an idea of what you were eating on a typical
day?

Gee, I "thought" I was on Atkins! Breakfast, eggs, bacon, slice of low carb
toast (5 effective grams) with butter, coffee with Splenda and cream (decaf,
one cup) Lunch, antipasto (cheese, salami, olives, lettuce, tomato (1
slice), Italian "rag soup" (chicken broth with egg/parmesan "noodles"), Diet
Rite soda (made with Splenda) Snack, mozzarella cheese stick (string
cheese), about 12-15 almonds, Dinner, small steak or chicken breast, small
salad with oil and vinegar dressing, low carb veggie (usually green beans,
asparagus, fried cabbage "noodles", cauliflower, broccoli) Snack, low carb
ice cream (Breyers, about 5-10 grams carb) or sf jello with whipped cream,
flavored (Atkins or DaVinci syrups) decaf coffee with cream. Extra yummies
or planned "cheats" are berries with cream, cream cheese stuffed celery,
fiber rye Wasa toast with cheese. My carb intake usually runs (ran) about
20-25 for induction (2 weeks) and 35-45 afterwards depending upon keto
sticks, trace ketosis showing was good.

Are you suggesting that the Atkins diet brought on these seizures. How
did your shoulder get broken?

What do you mean your "system just quit on you"?


Never said anything of the sort! Mild ketosis did not prevent me from having
seizures as it does for some children. Apparently my body believed itself to
be in severe starvation mode and seizures may have been brought on by that
factor and dehydration. Since this happened shortly after waking and before
food or liquid was consumed, I had been without food or drink for too long.
Who sips water or nibbles while sleeping? My body quit responding to a sense
of being alert. I passed out. I had seizures. Many people that suffer grand
mal seizures break or dislocate a shoulder, bite their tongues, etc. It's
very painful but very common. Understand a bit better? I don't know how else
to put it. Some people of which I am apparently one, have a lower threshold
for seizure activity

You are diabetic and you chose to go low-carb. You then went with the
lowest carb diet without considering less restrictive low-carb diets
such as the Zone. Is that correct?


FTR, I have had hospital training (diabetes educators) in carb counting to
keep my diabetes in control. If you check the American Diabetes Association
at http://diabetes.about.com/cs/carbcen...bohydrates.htm you can
better understand the impact of carbohydrates on blood sugar. I have tried
the Zone and also Sugar Busters, both of which I found rather confusing as
well as restrictive. While Atkins is a low carb diet but it is NOT a NO CARB
diet as many uneducated people assume. My doctor approved of my diet and it
seemed to be working well for weight loss AND to keep my diabetes under
control. I was able to go from 3-5 shots of insulin per day to ONE! My
hemoglobin A1c went from 10.5 down to 6.1 in 6 months. Blood pressure was
lower and cholesterol went from 167 to 145 while enjoying eggs and cream in
my coffee. Atkins does work.

I am completely in support of the low-carb way of life. Having said
that, if I were diabetic and trying a new and controversial way of
eating to lose weight and regain control of by diabetes, I would go
slow and methodically research the various low-carb options. I would
make less extreme changes to my diet, monitoring the results
carefully. I would do it with the supervision and help of a
progressive and supportive doctor. And I wouldn't aim to lose 50 or 60
lbs in only three months.

Read:

Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution
by Richard K. Bernstein (Author


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...31267?v=glance

As I said before, in other words, Atkins WOE did help control my diabetes
and other health problems. Maintaining a low carb lifestyle ala Atkins is
hardly "controversial" anymore except to certain individuals that have sold
fewer books, LOL. I still like Atkins. I just am staying out of ketosis,
keeping hydrated and added some additional carbs to my diet to where I am
maintaining my weight loss. Apparently I needed more carbs than I was
getting and my body rebelled. My observances were of my own health
situation. It is always a good idea to look at a problem with the intention
of finding out what works and what doesn't. We are individuals and one way
of eating doesn't work for everbody all the time. For instance, many believe
that Bernstien is a quack but he has many loyal followers as well as does
Atkins. This particular post was geared at talking about a ketogenic diet
(Atkins is that) preventing seizures in children. My reply was meant to tell
readers that it may not work the same way in adults because it did not keep
me from having seizures. Since it is recent and personal history it may be
informative. I was on Atkins longer than 3 months, more like 6, but went off
for a couple weeks (flu) and back on again.

You are on the right track, just do it slow and easy. You will get
there without having to take extreme measures. Also read The Zone by
Barry Sears, his diet is easier to adhere to and less carb restrictive
than Atkins.

TC


Thanks, I have been on every weight loss plan know to humanity except
surgical procedures. Since I am only about 6-7 pounds from my goal weight,
I'm not really concerned about learning a new diet. I am still staying away
from white stuff, rice, potatoes, fluffy carby food, but I do enjoy eating
and I will have a honey baked ham for Christmas as well as a cookie here and
there. Since I am not gaining while eating pretty much what I want (small
slice of pumpkin pie today) I have decided not to worry about it. What
really is amazing is that I am more relaxed about food and eating than I
have been in years. I had beef and noodles last week, home made, heavy on
the beef, light on the noodles and it is working for me. I do not find
myself overeating (tummy shrunk!) and I continue to drink lots of water. I'm
over 50 and my skin is smooth as a baby's butt, combination of Italian
genetics and water I believe IMHO, low carb diets are very good and Atkins
is one of the best. It was not responsible for my seizures but it did not,
as it does for some children, prevent me from having seizures!

Nancy J

"Nancy Huffines" wrote in message ...
What exactly were you eating that you thought you were on the Atkins
diet? Can you give us an idea of what you were eating on a typical
day?

Gee, I "thought" I was on Atkins! Breakfast, eggs, bacon, slice of low carb
toast (5 effective grams) with butter, coffee with Splenda and cream (decaf,
one cup) Lunch, antipasto (cheese, salami, olives, lettuce, tomato (1
slice), Italian "rag soup" (chicken broth with egg/parmesan "noodles"), Diet
Rite soda (made with Splenda) Snack, mozzarella cheese stick (string
cheese), about 12-15 almonds, Dinner, small steak or chicken breast, small
salad with oil and vinegar dressing, low carb veggie (usually green beans,
asparagus, fried cabbage "noodles", cauliflower, broccoli) Snack, low carb
ice cream (Breyers, about 5-10 grams carb) or sf jello with whipped cream,
flavored (Atkins or DaVinci syrups) decaf coffee with cream. Extra yummies
or planned "cheats" are berries with cream, cream cheese stuffed celery,
fiber rye Wasa toast with cheese. My carb intake usually runs (ran) about
20-25 for induction (2 weeks) and 35-45 afterwards depending upon keto
sticks, trace ketosis showing was good.


A lot of people overload on meat and fat thinking that they are on the
Atkins diet. I was trying to get an idea of what and how much you were
eating at each meal. Your reply did not clear this up at all.


Are you suggesting that the Atkins diet brought on these seizures. How
did your shoulder get broken?

What do you mean your "system just quit on you"?


Never said anything of the sort! Mild ketosis did not prevent me from having
seizures as it does for some children. Apparently my body believed itself to
be in severe starvation mode and seizures may have been brought on by that
factor and dehydration. Since this happened shortly after waking and before
food or liquid was consumed, I had been without food or drink for too long.
Who sips water or nibbles while sleeping? My body quit responding to a sense
of being alert. I passed out. I had seizures. Many people that suffer grand
mal seizures break or dislocate a shoulder, bite their tongues, etc. It's
very painful but very common. Understand a bit better? I don't know how else
to put it. Some people of which I am apparently one, have a lower threshold
for seizure activity


This clarifies your previous statement. thanks.

You are diabetic and you chose to go low-carb. You then went with the
lowest carb diet without considering less restrictive low-carb diets
such as the Zone. Is that correct?


FTR, I have had hospital training (diabetes educators) in carb counting to
keep my diabetes in control. If you check the American Diabetes Association
at http://diabetes.about.com/cs/carbcen...bohydrates.htm you can
better understand the impact of carbohydrates on blood sugar.

I have no interest in what the American Diabetes Association has to
say or recomend. Their diets are loaded with complex carbs. They are
also heavily sponsored (and owned, IMO) by the pharma and food
industries. Check out their corporate sponsor page. Sends a shiver
down my spine every time I think about the influence they have on
doctors, gov'ts and gov't agencies and th ose who suffer from
diabetes.

I have tried
the Zone and also Sugar Busters, both of which I found rather confusing as
well as restrictive. While Atkins is a low carb diet but it is NOT a NO CARB
diet as many uneducated people assume. My doctor approved of my diet and it
seemed to be working well for weight loss AND to keep my diabetes under
control. I was able to go from 3-5 shots of insulin per day to ONE! My
hemoglobin A1c went from 10.5 down to 6.1 in 6 months. Blood pressure was
lower and cholesterol went from 167 to 145 while enjoying eggs and cream in
my coffee. Atkins does work.


The Zone requires a lot of math, but after a couple of months it
becomes easy to eyeball a properly balanced meal.


I am completely in support of the low-carb way of life. Having said
that, if I were diabetic and trying a new and controversial way of
eating to lose weight and regain control of by diabetes, I would go
slow and methodically research the various low-carb options. I would
make less extreme changes to my diet, monitoring the results
carefully. I would do it with the supervision and help of a
progressive and supportive doctor. And I wouldn't aim to lose 50 or 60
lbs in only three months.

Read:

Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution
by Richard K. Bernstein (Author


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...31267?v=glance

As I said before, in other words, Atkins WOE did help control my diabetes
and other health problems. Maintaining a low carb lifestyle ala Atkins is
hardly "controversial" anymore except to certain individuals that have sold
fewer books, LOL. I still like Atkins. I just am staying out of ketosis,
keeping hydrated and added some additional carbs to my diet to where I am
maintaining my weight loss. Apparently I needed more carbs than I was
getting and my body rebelled. My observances were of my own health
situation. It is always a good idea to look at a problem with the intention
of finding out what works and what doesn't. We are individuals and one way
of eating doesn't work for everbody all the time. For instance, many believe
that Bernstien is a quack but he has many loyal followers as well as does
Atkins. This particular post was geared at talking about a ketogenic diet
(Atkins is that) preventing seizures in children. My reply was meant to tell
readers that it may not work the same way in adults because it did not keep
me from having seizures. Since it is recent and personal history it may be
informative. I was on Atkins longer than 3 months, more like 6, but went off
for a couple weeks (flu) and back on again.


I fully agree with your assessment of low-carb diets. Dr. Bernstein's
book supports low-carbing for diabetics. Very good info for everyone
in his book.


You are on the right track, just do it slow and easy. You will get
there without having to take extreme measures. Also read The Zone by
Barry Sears, his diet is easier to adhere to and less carb restrictive
than Atkins.

TC


Thanks, I have been on every weight loss plan know to humanity except
surgical procedures. Since I am only about 6-7 pounds from my goal weight,
I'm not really concerned about learning a new diet. I am still staying away
from white stuff, rice, potatoes, fluffy carby food, but I do enjoy eating
and I will have a honey baked ham for Christmas as well as a cookie here and
there. Since I am not gaining while eating pretty much what I want (small
slice of pumpkin pie today) I have decided not to worry about it. What
really is amazing is that I am more relaxed about food and eating than I
have been in years. I had beef and noodles last week, home made, heavy on
the beef, light on the noodles and it is working for me. I do not find
myself overeating (tummy shrunk!) and I continue to drink lots of water. I'm
over 50 and my skin is smooth as a baby's butt, combination of Italian
genetics and water I believe IMHO, low carb diets are very good and Atkins
is one of the best. It was not responsible for my seizures but it did not,
as it does for some children, prevent me from having seizures!

Nancy J

Congrats on your weight loss. Good luck with your seizures. Take Care.

TC

"tcomeau"
A lot of people overload on meat and fat thinking that they are on the
Atkins diet. I was trying to get an idea of what and how much you were
eating at each meal. Your reply did not clear this up at all.


standard servings. 4-5 ounces of lean meat for dinner, I don't like fatty
stuff anyway. Serving sizes of vegetables, anywhere from 1/2 cup to a full
cup. Eggs, 2 at breakfast, bacon, about 4 slices crisp or a couple link
sausages. I was pretty clear about the fact cream was used in my 1-2 cups of
decaf coffee a day although I haven't had much coffee lately. Unlike some
folks, I believe portion size is important and seldom if ever overeat unless
it's crunchy veggies. Is that better?

Do you think this could work for dogs? I have a dog with epilepsy.
Roxan
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
Yeah, but ketogenic diets for kids with epilepsy has generally been
considered on the "fringe" (kinda like low carb diets for weight
lossG). Now that low carb is getting mainstream recognition, it's
probably a good time for JHH to get this information back out to the
public as well as the medical community in hopes that people will look
at it with less skepticism. At least if they have a new study out there,
it will turn up in new literature searches.

Lee - an RN who actually learned about ketogenic diets in school!

PS - if anyone hasn't seen it and can find a copy, watch the movie
"First Do No Harm".

http://epilepsyontario.org/client/EO/EOWeb.nsf/web/First+Do+No+Harm+(Movie)

Roger Zoul wrote:

Damn...talk about reinventing the wheel! You'd think these folks would
find
better things to spend research dollars on. They could start by doing a
literature study....

As I understand it, the ketogenic diets typically used for epileptic
children who don't respond to epilepsy medications are stricter than
Atkins' Induction, with higher fat, lower protein, very few grams carb,
and monitored restriction of liquid. I'm not a bit surprised that your
much more liberal list of your diet (including lowcarb breads, sugarfree
ice cream) going up to 45g/day didn't prevent seizures. (Possibly it
might have, if you had stayed at induction levels.)


Nancy Huffines wrote:
Never said anything of the sort! Mild ketosis did not prevent me from having
seizures as it does for some children. Apparently my body believed itself to
be in severe starvation mode and seizures may have been brought on by that
factor and dehydration. Since this happened shortly after waking and before
food or liquid was consumed, I had been without food or drink for too long.
Who sips water or nibbles while sleeping? My body quit responding to a sense
of being alert. I passed out. I had seizures. Many people that suffer grand
mal seizures break or dislocate a shoulder, bite their tongues, etc. It's
very painful but very common. Understand a bit better? I don't know how else
to put it. Some people of which I am apparently one, have a lower threshold
for seizure activity


--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

I was talking to a ketogenic diet researcher recently and asked if there is
a dog model of the diet. I know it's been tried but this person said that
dogs don't go into ketosis in the same way that humans do and that their
brain would preferentially use lactate over ketones anyway. He didn't
believe it would work in dogs. There are several labs looking at the
ketogenic diet in animals in order to determine its mechanism. Rats are
often used but I know there is a controversy as to whether there is really
an effect in rats or if it's an artefact of the data processing.


"roxan" wrote in message
...
Do you think this could work for dogs? I have a dog with epilepsy.
Roxan


"Lee B." wrote in message
...
Yeah, but ketogenic diets for kids with epilepsy has generally been
considered on the "fringe" (kinda like low carb diets for weight
lossG). Now that low carb is getting mainstream recognition, it's
probably a good time for JHH to get this information back out to the
public as well as the medical community in hopes that people will look
at it with less skepticism. At least if they have a new study out there,
it will turn up in new literature searches.

Lee - an RN who actually learned about ketogenic diets in school!

PS - if anyone hasn't seen it and can find a copy, watch the movie
"First Do No Harm".


http://epilepsyontario.org/client/EO/EOWeb.nsf/web/First+Do+No+Harm+(Movie)

Roger Zoul wrote:

Damn...talk about reinventing the wheel! You'd think these folks
would
find
better things to spend research dollars on. They could start by doing
a
literature study....

I've heard a neurologist say that even a small break from the ketogenic diet
can break its anticonvulsant effects. Something like a kid sneaking a
cookie could break the effect. I don't know if this is just from some
anecdotal reports or if this is something that's well known.


"jamie" wrote in message
...

As I understand it, the ketogenic diets typically used for epileptic
children who don't respond to epilepsy medications are stricter than
Atkins' Induction, with higher fat, lower protein, very few grams carb,
and monitored restriction of liquid. I'm not a bit surprised that your
much more liberal list of your diet (including lowcarb breads, sugarfree
ice cream) going up to 45g/day didn't prevent seizures. (Possibly it
might have, if you had stayed at induction levels.)


Nancy Huffines wrote:
Never said anything of the sort! Mild ketosis did not prevent me from
having
seizures as it does for some children. Apparently my body believed
itself to
be in severe starvation mode and seizures may have been brought on by
that
factor and dehydration. Since this happened shortly after waking and
before
food or liquid was consumed, I had been without food or drink for too
long.
Who sips water or nibbles while sleeping? My body quit responding to a
sense
of being alert. I passed out. I had seizures. Many people that suffer
grand
mal seizures break or dislocate a shoulder, bite their tongues, etc.
It's
very painful but very common. Understand a bit better? I don't know how
else
to put it. Some people of which I am apparently one, have a lower
threshold
for seizure activity


--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

Aren't the Atkins and ketogenic diets high-fat diets, not low-fat?



"Jean B." wrote in message ...
Roger Zoul wrote:

Damn...talk about reinventing the wheel! You'd think these folks would
find
better things to spend research dollars on. They could start by doing a
literature study....


And I have been hearing this for years, no decades. Of course,
they didn't call it the Atkins Diet but rather a low-fat diet.

--
Jean B.

thanks for the reply, I am looking for something that may help my dog with
seizures.
Roxan
"Klenow" wrote in message
.com...
I was talking to a ketogenic diet researcher recently and asked if there
is
a dog model of the diet. I know it's been tried but this person said that
dogs don't go into ketosis in the same way that humans do and that their
brain would preferentially use lactate over ketones anyway. He didn't
believe it would work in dogs. There are several labs looking at the
ketogenic diet in animals in order to determine its mechanism. Rats are
often used but I know there is a controversy as to whether there is really
an effect in rats or if it's an artefact of the data processing.


"roxan" wrote in message
...
Do you think this could work for dogs? I have a dog with epilepsy.
Roxan


"Lee B." wrote in message
...
Yeah, but ketogenic diets for kids with epilepsy has generally been
considered on the "fringe" (kinda like low carb diets for weight
lossG). Now that low carb is getting mainstream recognition, it's
probably a good time for JHH to get this information back out to the
public as well as the medical community in hopes that people will look
at it with less skepticism. At least if they have a new study out
there,
it will turn up in new literature searches.

Lee - an RN who actually learned about ketogenic diets in school!

PS - if anyone hasn't seen it and can find a copy, watch the movie
"First Do No Harm".



http://epilepsyontario.org/client/EO/EOWeb.nsf/web/First+Do+No+Harm+(Movie)

Roger Zoul wrote:

Damn...talk about reinventing the wheel! You'd think these folks
would
find
better things to spend research dollars on. They could start by
doing
a
literature study....