Very discouraged; please help

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
.. .
"Nunya B." wrote in message
...
"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
news
What's an "FFID" please?
It stands for Fat F*** In Denial and is used traditionally to describe
someone who complains that there isn't anything he/she can do about
his/her weight.

That's . . . sad. Or mean. Or something.

It seems obvious to me that a lot of what some people ascribe to "denial"
about weight-loss issues is really just frustration and lack of knowledge.
Seeing the ignorant crap that is being passed around as fact by some
people on this thread is a particularly striking demonstration of how hard
it is to actually get good information about health, nutrition, fitness,
etc.

Well seriously there are some people who truly are in denial and it's not
the good kind. I've only been around this group 3 years but I've seen quite
a bit of it. A coworker of mine is the same way and truly is fat and in
comlpete denial about why though I wouldn't refer to her as a f***.
Situations like my nephews are the exception, not the rule.

No wonder people get frustrated and give up and feel even worse about
themselves when they such a wide variety of contradictory lies. And now,
isn't it special that we now have a place at asd where we can be told lies
and get called names like FFID all in the same newsgroup!!!!!!!!! Wow,
we're really advancing the cause of health and self-esteem here, aren't
we?

Well, it hasn't been used in reference to you, unless I missed it - there
are some posters I simply don't read any longer and some posts that I start
to read and then don't finish because my bs detector goes off

It is probably appropriate for plenty of folks who have posted here over
the years but lately has become extremely overused. Just another reason
I don't post here much anymore.

I don't want to be around people like that, either. Do you know of a
better forum? Anybody have any ideas?

There are some great people here with a lot of good experience and
information which is why I might disappear for a while but then stop in when
time permits, like today. Otherwise I don't do diet forums anywhere else
because the ignorance is rampant and the same types of people here that are
offensive exist everywhere. At least here there are some people I know and
love and feel that they know their stuff. As with anything in usenet, you
take what you can use and disregard the rest.
--
the volleyballchick

"Keith Willoughby" wrote in message
...
"Jen" writes:

A pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of gold too.

Strictly speaking, a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of gold
- precious metal is measured in troy ounces/pounds, whereas almost
everything else is measured in avoirdupois pounds, which are heavier
/mindless pedantry

Actually I knew that too but figured if I pointed it out I'd get called an
idiot or something
--
the volleyballchick

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:51:00 -0600, "Edna Pearl"
wrote:

Okay, I finally did it. I swore I wouldn't be goaded into it, but just now
I took out one of my old calorie books and my calculator and I counted
calories. Please see below.

"Jo Anne Slaven" wrote in message
.. .

I ran your numbers through FitDay, and came up with 1894 calories.

Then you are running through the highest calorie foods you can think of for
each portion of each category of food, e.g., 100 calories per ounce of
protein, etc., and if you assume I am eating the maximum number of portions
for each day. If I do the same thing with my little calorie book, I come up
with 1900-2000. I might eat that much on a day when I'm doing a lot of
paddling or hiking, sure.

If I add up what I ate today, however, I come up with 1050 calories. I plan
to consume another 120 calories before bedtime.

As for exercise: Today I did a full-body work-out with weights, including
benching 80 pounds and deadlifting 120 (yay me!). (I also took a nice walk
in the woods for about 20 minutes, but I hesitate to even mention it because
it seems inevitable that somebody here will feel compelled to explain to me
why this doesn't constitute an adequate "cardio" workout.)

You are eating too many carbs.

Who says? You? Atkins? (Who cares?)

Cut out at least half your bread/cereal
and replace it with green vegetables.

No, thanks. I can't imagine why I would want to do that.

Also, do you realize that 3/4 cup of fruit juice is THREE SERVINGS?

I don't understand what you are TALKING ABOUT. ALL CAPS.

My little book says that 3/4 cup of OJ is about 100 calories. A banana is
about a 100 calories. An apple is about 80 calories. 3/4 cup of apple
juice is about 90 calories.


And it's almost pure sugar? Lose the juice, and eat half a cup of
blueberries instead.

No, thank you. A lifetime of 3/4 a cup of blueberries per day does not
appeal to me.

Try this for a month or two, WEIGH YOURSELF to see if there's any
difference, then report back.

NO THANKS. ALL CAPS. "Report back"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Crikey.
WHO do you think you ARE, a DRILL SERGEANT? (rhetorical question)

I hereby announce that this post is the last time you will ever see me count
calories in this newsgroup. As I would have expected, I have learned
absolutely nothing from taking out my little calorie book and my little
calculator and doing my little numbers with my little pen and paper that I
did not already know.

Well, I lost weight by watching what I ate. If you don't feel up to
doing that, too bad for you. You asked for specific ideas and I gave
you a few. What, exactly, were you looking for? If you want someone to
tell you to just keep on with what you are doing, then OK, I'll tell
you: Do what you've been doing. Good luck.

Jo Anne

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...

"Jen" wrote in message
...

"determined" wrote in message
...

Perhaps you could invest in a heart rate monitor. It will give you a
better idea what your heart rate is during these exercises, and a better
estimate of how many calories you are burning.

A better, more effective way is to use a perceived exertion scale
http://exercise.about.com/od/cardiow...d+heart%20rate



Jen

Too bad this person felt compelled to invent yet another perceived
exertion scale rather than use one already defined.

Why? Does somebody have on original that works better?


Jen

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I even said it with a smiley

I think the frustration level is pretty high on this thread. I know mine
is! Tempers get lost, people get caught in the crossfire, etc. FWIW,
though, I noticed your smiley :-) I figured you were making a funny.
Not a *big* funny, maybe, but certainly a smiley-face funny, at the very
least.


I was a little on-edge after the first answer to the post, and assumed
someone was being a smart ar**. I hear it called nothing but weight all the
time, and didn't think there was need for an explanation. Everyone says
that gold is heavy or lead is heavy. Same thing. I don't think it needs to
be explained that a certain weight of something isn't the same weight of
something else.

I got frustrated.

I apologize


Jen

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I even said it with a smiley

I think the frustration level is pretty high on this thread. I know mine
is! Tempers get lost, people get caught in the crossfire, etc. FWIW,
though, I noticed your smiley :-) I figured you were making a funny.
Not a *big* funny, maybe, but certainly a smiley-face funny, at the very
least.

ep

Uh, I made a smiley in my first post, doesn't that count?

Well, isnt' this quite the discussion! Dear Edna, you have a number of
issues to deal with in your life as we all have. And somehow we all
have to find our best way to lose weight if we're serious about it,
because eventually health issues will force us to do so. For some
people calorie counting works, for others the GI diet or Atkins or
whatever. It all comes down to healthy food choices and portion
control.I joined Weight Watchers 2 years ago after admitting that I
can't do it by myself. To my surprise (and I'm absolutely not
associated with Weight Watchers) I met so many people there with
exactly the same problems. The program they give you to follow is
manageable, and I too have weeks where I don't lose, and then will
lose, etc. It's the support of my buddies and tracking my food intake
that keeps me on track, and I lost 23 pounds which isn't much compared
to some of the others. Had I not joined I probably would have gained
more. Very few people except the most disciplined can manage to lose
weight on their own. Weight Watchers allows you to eat whatever you
want as long as you stay within your daily allotted points. Wine ok,
steak ok, even chocolate.That way you don't feel deprived of the finer
culinary things in life. I'm extremely physically active, i.e. 6 hrs.
tennis and 3 hrs. aquafit a week and always thought that that was a
pass to eat more. Not so. I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes and very
high cholesterol not long ago, so I have to be vigilant about my food
intake. I can guarantee you that you will lose weight if you control
your portions and fat intake. You might not have had an "epiphany" yet
where you realize that you want to make a commitment to weight loss. If
you have physical limitations you can still do small things such as
lifting weights while watching TV or doing Tai Chi or even light Yoga.
It's a hard struggle to go through it alone, that's while I find the
support from my buddies at Weight Watchers keeps me going. We're all in
the same boat, and every week we go for coffee after and bitch and
bitch but also prop each other up. I don't want to go on about this as
I don't know if you're receptive to my ramblings. But I wish you luck,
and be assured that I have no doubt that you can do it once you really
really really make up your mind.

Edna Pearl wrote:
"determined" wrote in message
...
I said you need to find out what your current caloric intake is so you can
figure out what you are maintaining at, because obviously you are
maintaining, which means you do not have a caloric deficit.

Knowing the calorie-intake level I am currently consuming wouldn't tell me
anything useful that I don't already know. Think about it. As I've
explained elsewhere in this thread, I "count" (actually, use a checklist of)
portions. This has the same result and import as counting calories. No
relevant difference at all. Okay, so I know how much I'm eating. So what?

A person will maintain the same weight at different calorie levels depending
on exercise, metabolism, hormone levels, etc. -- a literally immeasurable
number of factors. If you enjoy trying to estimate all these factors in
numeric terms, fine. Enjoy. I don't enjoy it. But I do have a general
idea of where I am in terms of input and output, and it's probably no less
accurate than your own estimates.

I also said you need to get your heart rate up to burn more calories.

I am (obviously) aware of the general impact of cardio on calorie-burning.
I am doing regular cardio. I said so in my post. As I said, I use a
bicycle on my errands. Biking is great cardio. I bike 20-40 minutes a day
at least three days a week. I also do some heavy cardio, like kayaking,
distance biking, hiking, etc., etc., etc., at least once a week.

If you have any actual experience with the efficacy of various timings and
duration of cardio work-outs, great, maybe I can learn something! Let's
talk. But it's just not really helpful to tell me to do cardio when I've
already said I'm doing it.

Lifting weight doesn't do that and neither does yoga type stretching.

I mentioned the yoga because it is relevant to my injuries. I never
suggested that it burns calores. That would be silly. I am also aware of
the difference between strength-training and cardio. Thank you. As you are
aware, strength-training enhances calorie-use and fat-reduction.

I also suggested starting with a 30 minute walk every day.

Am I supposed to do this *instead of* kayaking for a couple of hours? That
would be sad. Or am I supposed to do it *in addition to* hiking up
mountains? And what good would this do that my bicycling on errands does
not do? This didn't make any sense to me when you suggested it, so I just
assumed you had not read my post. (And incidentally, lots of research
indicates that it's a good idea to refrain from exercise at least day per
week.)

As I also mentioned in technical and (probably misspelled) terms, I am,
simply put, lame in one foot. Repetitive, identical steps are not a good
choice for regular cardio, for me.

Again, if you have any meaningful information about how to optimize my
cardio, I'd be delighted to hear it. Like, some people swear by doing it in
the morning, and that really worked for me at one point in my life -- is
that a total myth? Or is it worth trying? Would it be likely to do
something for me that my current routine is not doing, or would it just be a
meaningless change?

So as far as not pointing out "a single solitary thing I might change",
maybe you need to reread my post.

Or again, maybe not. Maybe you should have read mine in the first place
:-)

I do admire Krista. She has a tremendous amount of info on her website.
However, ymmv. If Krista's information is working out for you, then by
all means, keep doing what you are doing.

Krista's information does work for me, as far as it goes. But I'm not sure
what I'm doing is working as well as it could. Hence my post including all
the relevant factors I could think of, including health problems, hormonal
changes, and emotional issues.

If you don't know what your average calorie intake is, how can you know
what you need to change?

I do know my average calorie intake, as I've said. You can determine it
yourself by adding up the average calories in my daily checklist of food
portions, since you're the one who likes numbers. What do you think this is
supposed to tell me about what I need to change? Seriously. I'm asking. I
don't think it tells me a dang thing about what I need to change, but maybe
you know something I don't. F'rinstance, I don't think knowing my calorie
intake, in isolation, tells me anything about whether I need to eat fewer or
more calories today, tomorrow, on a daily basis, or whenever or how often.

Furthermore, my reference to
"weather permitting" simply means, for example, that I don't swim
outdoors in winter (we just had an entire thread here about people who
don't bicycle in cold weather, which, in fact, I DO) -- and your
assumption that it means something else says a lot more about you than it
does me.
NO, what you said was "I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim when weather and
my energy evels permit".

You're apparently seeing a difference in meaning that escapes me.

YOu can hike and bicycle in almost any weather, so your blanket statement
sounds more like a copout than anything.

Hmm. It sounds to me like you jumped to an unwarranted and unflattering
conclusion. But that's just me.

Oh, and thanks
for telling me I need to stop feeling sorry for myself about my mom
dying. Aren't you a special person.
YOu know, I was not referring to your mother dying.

I knew no such thing.

I am sorry for your loss, but I am referring to your "poor me" attitude
about weight loss -

If asking for help and support is a "poor me" attitude, then I'm it. But I
thought that's what support groups were for.

you have a plethora of reasons (excuses) why you are fat, and why you
cannot lose weight.

WTF are you talking about?!?!?!?!?! I included every factor I thought might
be relevant -- perimenopausal hormones, recent illness and emotional trauma,
minor disabilities, the radical extent to which I've change my lifestyle in
the past couple of months -- so that anybody could respond to any particular
factor they had experience with or information about or insight into or
sympathy for or whatever. If you choose to see that as a "plethora" of
"excuses," that's *you*. You didn't get it from *me*.

There are many people here with super busy lifestyles, health problems,
etc, that have managed to lose plenty of weight.

Gee whiz, do ya think so? That's why I posted, for cryin' out loud. I
hoped somebody might like to share something helpful or supportive.

I guess Edna what you really need right now is a hug.

No thanks.

Well, here you go
HUGS. I guess you didn't come here for honest opinions and
advice,
but for atta boys and warm fuzzy encouragement. Sorry, I don't do that.
But maybe someone else here will.
You need learn at least learn some manners, if you can't manage to grow
any compassion.
Manners? I guess I could take some lessons from you, huh?

You probably could, if I were offering them.

ep

If you'd like to privately e-mail me, I can give you the website of a
very small, friendly, supportive group where you might feel more
comfortable.

However, I'll admit....we're nowhere near as knowledgable as the people
in this group when it comes to weight-(fat) loss. We do a lot better on
the friendly, support issues. LOL -- Sue

PS -- I "lurk" in this group (ASD) every day....always learning new
things and great ideas.....

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
.. .
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Don't the majority of Weight Watchers folks just count portions?

Yeah, if you'll look up in my (overlength :-) post, you'll see I said just
that. That's one reason I am so surprised that nobody has responded so
far to this thread who counts portions instead of calories -- it's a
really reputable, common method.

smile I sense frustration here.

You sense right. smile back atcha

I have a friend who is a a "professional dieter." She has tried them
all. I think she has spent most of her life "dieting." She is on a
high protein type diet right now, and has recommended articles to
read--which I read just because she likes to talk about them. (And I
like to put in my opinion about the importance of a balanced diet) When I
was stuck at 195, I read an article that talked about how a "shock" of
high protein sometimes kicks one loose from a plateau they are stuck on.

Yup, yup, yup. Sue also recommended a shock for while I'm feeling stuck.
And this is old weight-training lore, too -- the idea of not letting your
body get so used to what you're doing that it just adapts.


Yes, our bodies are wonderful things and do tend to adapt to whatever we
throw at them. I may be getting to another plateau. It kind of feels like
it. So I am being careful not to "shock" by body with Christmas cookies and
other goodies. (Like the eggnog cake my 13 year old just had to have)
smile I may do another week of hight protein--it's been 3-1/2 months since
the last one.


It recommended 1 week of hight protein before going back to normal,
well-balanced eating. So I tried it, and it worked for me. My downward
progress has been steady since then. I don't know if it would work for
anyone else, but it did work for me.

Thanks for sharing that. Based on my conversation with you and Sue, here,
I'm thinking (1) new bike routine, and (2) new protein routine. Change my
diet for a week; ramp up on the bike for a month. I can't start that
right now, but I can be bike-shopping and making out my grocery list.

My biggest problem with exercise is finding the time to do it. My daughters
are in karate 3 evenings a week, and the dojo is 2 doors down from Curves,
which is how I manage to make that a regular part of my life. Don't know if
I'd be so faithful if it weren't for their karate. The recumbent cycle is
somethig I force myself to do, now that it is dark before we get home every
day. During the summer, the swimming was easy, and became a habit very
quickly. But our public pool is an outdoor pool, and they closed it in
October. (I can hardly wait for it to open again in spring) I really enjoy
swimming, but I think it was the people I met and got to know there who kept
me coming back. That social element is really important in a lotr of ways!



It is pretty amazing how fast one can build strength, isn't it?

Yes it is! Nobody else here seems to be even slightly impressed that I
got to deadlifting 120 pounds in six weeks despite injuries. I mean, yay
me! :-)

I think it's great. I also think it is great that you recognize how well
you are doing and give yourself the kudos you deserve. I think we do not do
that enough on our pathwasy to health and fitness. (But we certainly do
recognize our own shortcomings, don't we?)


I'm wondering, have you ever talked to anyone knowledgeable, such as a
physical therapist, on what types of exercise would best strengthen or
improve the areas that give you the most problems?

I would, but I just don't know who to go to. I know there are some bad
ones around here, and I'm phobic of bad ones because of the horror stories
I've heard. I should have done more about this tendonitis in my left arm
immediately. In retrospect, I should have had my arm in a sling and been
RICEing it regularly when I first injured it. I don't know if it's too
late now, but it does seem to be responding to my efforts to increase the
blood flow to the affected joints, so I'll remain optimistic. I'll
mention it to my doctor the next time I'm in to see him, though I'm
persuaded he knows very little about fitness and orthopedics.

But your doctor may be able to recommend a good physical therapist for you
to consult. It's ceertainly worth a try. =c)


There have got to be forms of exercise that would help, rather than your
trying to work around them all the time.

My back and my foot are permanent. I have received and occasionally
receive all appropriate treatments. My foot is congenital. I hurt my
back originally in 1990 and exacerbated it in 2003. That's life :-)

I am feeling so much better than I was last May. That was a very scary
time for me. You're right, success is its own reward. And success
begets success. You keep up your good work, too, Edna. Hard work is
never in vain.

I guess that's my motto, now, success is it's own reward; success begets
success. And I think a shock to my system is just the thing to give
myself another reward :-)

That is fantastic that you have made such strides with improving your
health. And thanks again for your posts. They have been helpful. I have
pretty mixed feelings about this group given my experience here last
night, but if I do hang (while using my killfile judiciously :-) I'll be
keeping an eye on your news and hoping you'll respond to mine.

I was very surprised at some of the responses. Encouragement is such an
important thing. I think you are making more progress than you realize. I
know, for me, my weight loss isn't a steady 2 pounds per week--there will be
weeks when I don't see a drop, then I will see a sudden 5 pound drop. But I
know that is just scale weight, and I have become used to my own loss
pattern. And I have other-than-scale measures, too. (Right now, it's a
gray corduroy skirt that I want to get into smile) I'm glad you're not
just dropping out of the newsgroup. I am very interested in how you are
doing. So let me know if you go to a different group. Keep up the good
work!! =c)

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Yes, our bodies are wonderful things and do tend to adapt to whatever we
throw at them. I may be getting to another plateau. It kind of feels
like it. So I am being careful not to "shock" by body with Christmas
cookies and other goodies. (Like the eggnog cake my 13 year old just had
to have)

Hey that might work! Okay, wishful thinking, never mind ;-D

smile I may do another week of hight protein--it's been 3-1/2 months
since the last one.

That does sound like a good interval. So do you cut carbs and eat more meat
for a week, or something like that?
My biggest problem with exercise is finding the time to do it.

I think quality can be as important as quantity. I know the longer I've
practiced lifting and various sports skills, the better I've gotten at
getting the most out of my lifting -- I do low reps and high weights now,
and I rarely lift more than twice a week, unless I have a moment to do it
just for fun. And kayaking and swimming and biking are all good endurance
builders.

What discourages me is when I get sick -- like, I've always had women's
issues and these dang orthopedic problems. And having been so stressed out,
unhappy, self-destructive and sick for so much of the past couple of years,
I really dug a hole that I'm having to dig myself out of. But you know, the
way I see it, at least I *can* lift. Heck, there are plenty of people with
a bad hip or a bad foot that prevents them from working out, or walking at
*all.* I just have to remember how lucky I am, suck it up, and do it. It
pays off in mood as well as training effect.

My daughters are in karate 3 evenings a week, and the dojo is 2 doors down
from Curves, which is how I manage to make that a regular part of my life.
Don't know if I'd be so faithful if it weren't for their karate. The
recumbent cycle is somethig I force myself to do, now that it is dark
before we get home every day. During the summer, the swimming was easy,
and became a habit very quickly. But our public pool is an outdoor pool,
and they closed it in October. (I can hardly wait for it to open again in
spring) I really enjoy swimming, but I think it was the people I met and
got to know there who kept me coming back. That social element is really
important in a lotr of ways!

Not for me. I think this is one of those factors that divides people who
work out into different camps. I like to be alone, and I like to
concentrate, and I like to take my time listening to my own body. I've also
noticed that some people like machines that tell them what to do when, while
others hate them and prefer to have control of the machine -- like a bike or
elliptical trainer or whatever. I'm the latter.

I think it's great. I also think it is great that you recognize how well
you are doing and give yourself the kudos you deserve. I think we do not
do that enough on our pathwasy to health and fitness. (But we certainly
do recognize our own shortcomings, don't we?)

:-) It really is important to recognize that we are getting results. In
all honesty, I think it's sad when the only way people can see results is
with a scale. Nobody would ever do muscle-building if they relied on the
scale as a measure of progress. And lifting is *so* important for a
middle-aged woman like me. I don't want osteoporosis!

But your doctor may be able to recommend a good physical therapist for you
to consult. It's ceertainly worth a try. =c)

You're right. If I could find a good physical therapist it would be really
life enhancing. But I've spent so much time with the doctor lately, and
I've kind of learned the things he's good at and the things he's not, and I
really doubt he knows any thing about physical therapy, so it's not the
highest thing on my list of priorities to go talk to him. I wish I knew
more athletes around here to ask who they consult about their injuries. I
know some go to chiropractors.

Like, I used to have another injury that limited my activity -- chronic
trauma to my right wrist had resulted in a cyst. No M.D. had ever helped me
with that. No trainer either (I used to use commercial gyms; don't any
more). I had just given up on it until I started seeing a chiropractor for
my back after I re-injured it in 2003. He never did my back much good, but
he fixed that wrist like a charm with a few treatments and followed by a
visit to his in-house massage therapist. Cyst gradually disappeared.
Haven't had any significant trouble with my right wrist since -- and that
wrist had been increasingly problematic for me since I first injured it when
I was *nine years old.* You never know when you're going to get lucky
enough to find somebody who can actually help you with a problem.

I was very surprised at some of the responses. Encouragement is such an
important thing. I think you are making more progress than you realize.

I have realized that during the course of responding to this thread. Having
somebody call me "fat" and "lazy" (sheesh) was really unpleasant, and I've
killfiled that person, but it also reminded me of how much progress I *have*
made on fitness and made me realize that "lazy" is the LAST thing I am.

I know, for me, my weight loss isn't a steady 2 pounds per week--there
will be weeks when I don't see a drop, then I will see a sudden 5 pound
drop. But I know that is just scale weight, and I have become used to my
own loss pattern. And I have other-than-scale measures, too. (Right now,
it's a gray corduroy skirt that I want to get into smile)

The scale wouldn't tell me anything I wanted to know. At this early stage
in my training, I would be appalled by a loss of two pounds a week, because
it would be a sure indication that I'm not building any muscle. And muscle
is my first priority right now. When I've built some muscle, gotten
stronger and more comfortable, become a little more compact, and can get
into those size 14 climbing pants hanging in my closet, weight loss and size
10 will be that much closer :-)

I'm glad you're not just dropping out of the newsgroup. I am very
interested in how you are doing. So let me know if you go to a different
group. Keep up the good work!! =c)

Thanks again, Teach. I'm going to try to find a BFL-oriented group. I'll
let you know. In the meantime, I'll hang here. For another day, anyway.
:-) I'll post before I leave, given your cordiality -- not trying to stir
up any trouble here, believe me. There have been some nice responses here
in addition to the unproductive ones, and I appreciate that.

ep