Metabolism Crash: Fact or Fiction?

Here's the deal.....I had a Sunday "food-up" that consisted of lots of carbs
and fat. Went way over my 1700-1800 kcals per day limit.

To keep the weight loss going, I decided to basically not eat much for a
couple of days. So, on Monday I ate 500 kcals worth of food and did 500
kcals worth of exercise on my stationary (I won't comment on the accuracy of
that, but I know I lose weight doing that level of cardio consistently IF I
control diet). Today I've eaten 560 kcals worth of food and did 825 kcals
worth of cardio on the bike, plus a solid hour of lifting at the gym (I use
short rest intervals -- less than 1 minute -- going from station to
station -- deadlifts, bench, lat pulls, squats -- since my gym is not
crowded after 8pm). Fitday claims that's about 385 kcals worth of exercise,
even though I don't believe that (I think the cardio numbers are more
accurate since that is steady continuous exercise).

In terms of intake and just estimated exercise expenditure, I was even
yesterday and right now I'm at a deficit today (1210-560=650). Also, I did
quite a bit of walking up and down 4 flights of stairs today, and I weigh
about 245 or so...

So, is my metabolism going to crash? Am I going to lose some muscle mass
here, or do you all expect me to go on a hellish binge in a few minutes?
That thought seems to be lurking in the back of my head somewhere

Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry. I do plan to go back to normal calorie
intake tomorrow...

In two days you're not going to lose much muscle or have your metabolism
crash. The whole idea is absurd.

--
Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little.

Becky P.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Here's the deal.....I had a Sunday "food-up" that consisted of lots of
carbs
and fat. Went way over my 1700-1800 kcals per day limit.

To keep the weight loss going, I decided to basically not eat much for a
couple of days. So, on Monday I ate 500 kcals worth of food and did 500
kcals worth of exercise on my stationary (I won't comment on the accuracy
of
that, but I know I lose weight doing that level of cardio consistently IF
I
control diet). Today I've eaten 560 kcals worth of food and did 825 kcals
worth of cardio on the bike, plus a solid hour of lifting at the gym (I
use
short rest intervals -- less than 1 minute -- going from station to
station -- deadlifts, bench, lat pulls, squats -- since my gym is not
crowded after 8pm). Fitday claims that's about 385 kcals worth of
exercise,
even though I don't believe that (I think the cardio numbers are more
accurate since that is steady continuous exercise).

In terms of intake and just estimated exercise expenditure, I was even
yesterday and right now I'm at a deficit today (1210-560=650). Also, I
did
quite a bit of walking up and down 4 flights of stairs today, and I weigh
about 245 or so...

So, is my metabolism going to crash? Am I going to lose some muscle mass
here, or do you all expect me to go on a hellish binge in a few minutes?
That thought seems to be lurking in the back of my head somewhere

Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry. I do plan to go back to normal calorie
intake tomorrow...

JC Der Koenig wrote:
:: In two days you're not going to lose much muscle or have your
:: metabolism crash. The whole idea is absurd.

That's what I think....

::
:: --
:: Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little.
::
:: Becky P.
::
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Here's the deal.....I had a Sunday "food-up" that consisted of lots
::: of carbs and fat. Went way over my 1700-1800 kcals per day limit.
:::
::: To keep the weight loss going, I decided to basically not eat much
::: for a couple of days. So, on Monday I ate 500 kcals worth of food
::: and did 500 kcals worth of exercise on my stationary (I won't
::: comment on the accuracy of that, but I know I lose weight doing
::: that level of cardio consistently IF I control diet). Today I've
::: eaten 560 kcals worth of food and did 825 kcals worth of cardio on
::: the bike, plus a solid hour of lifting at the gym (I use short rest
::: intervals -- less than 1 minute -- going from station to station --
::: deadlifts, bench, lat pulls, squats -- since my gym is not crowded
::: after 8pm). Fitday claims that's about 385 kcals worth of
::: exercise, even though I don't believe that (I think the cardio
::: numbers are more accurate since that is steady continuous
::: exercise).
:::
::: In terms of intake and just estimated exercise expenditure, I was
::: even yesterday and right now I'm at a deficit today (1210-560=650).
::: Also, I did quite a bit of walking up and down 4 flights of stairs
::: today, and I weigh about 245 or so...
:::
::: So, is my metabolism going to crash? Am I going to lose some
::: muscle mass here, or do you all expect me to go on a hellish binge
::: in a few minutes? That thought seems to be lurking in the back of
::: my head somewhere
:::
::: Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry. I do plan to go back to normal
::: calorie intake tomorrow...

This is a big "it depends". On mfw there are stories of folks who
have to carb up every few DAYS to keep their metabolism running at
peak when they're trying to cut. But, they're extra lean. The more
body fat you carry around, the less likely you'll crash that quickly,
but the part of the leptin response that's keyed to calorie intake
seems to respond pretty quickly to intake changes (few days). The key
factor is whether the OTHER part of the leptin response (adipose
stores) remains strong enough to keep the brain happy.

I think you've got a couple days "free pass" from the Sunday carbs.
Whether you lose muscle mass or not, I think depends on your protein
intake and lifting - enough of those two and you should be OK.

BTW I had a day like yours today. UD2 depletion day - two circuits, 9
exercises, 3x15 each (total 54 sets), followed by 800 kcals of cardio
(65 minutes). All that and only 1200 kcals food intake. Subtract my
BMR and I'm down half a pound! (yeah, right)

Roger Zoul wrote:
| JC Der Koenig wrote:
||| In two days you're not going to lose much muscle or have your
||| metabolism crash. The whole idea is absurd.
|
| That's what I think....

That's what I think too. Roger, Buddy! You're usually the one that's
giving rock-solid, level headed advice. You panicked like a schoolgirl who
forgot to use a condom on her date. Sounds as if the measures you took
after just one day of eating a bit too much was overkill!

You'll be just fine. You have to be; we need you to be.
--

Peter
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Roger,

FWIW, the research into metabolic rate that was cited in the Pool book
(required reading for anyone interested in the science of dieting) showed
that the metabolism drop occurs when people lose 10% of starting body weight
and does NOT decline after that. It was measured at about 16%.

Obviously there is lots more diet research to be done, but I wouldn't worry
if I were you.

My own observations have been that when I eat under 1000 calories for a few
days (which happens only when I get a bad stomach virus) I naturally
compensate in the upcoming week once I feel better.

But my other observation has been that I can gain real fat weight, not
water, by boosting my calories for as little as a week and the gain does not
correspond to the 3,500 calories = a pound theory. I don't know what the
explanation is, but it has happened not once but twice since I hit my goal
weight. And it's incredibly hard to get those new pounds to go away once
they appear.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Here's the deal.....I had a Sunday "food-up" that consisted of lots of
carbs
and fat. Went way over my 1700-1800 kcals per day limit.

To keep the weight loss going, I decided to basically not eat much for a
couple of days. So, on Monday I ate 500 kcals worth of food and did 500
kcals worth of exercise on my stationary (I won't comment on the accuracy
of
that, but I know I lose weight doing that level of cardio consistently IF
I
control diet). Today I've eaten 560 kcals worth of food and did 825 kcals
worth of cardio on the bike, plus a solid hour of lifting at the gym (I
use
short rest intervals -- less than 1 minute -- going from station to
station -- deadlifts, bench, lat pulls, squats -- since my gym is not
crowded after 8pm). Fitday claims that's about 385 kcals worth of
exercise,
even though I don't believe that (I think the cardio numbers are more
accurate since that is steady continuous exercise).

In terms of intake and just estimated exercise expenditure, I was even
yesterday and right now I'm at a deficit today (1210-560=650). Also, I
did
quite a bit of walking up and down 4 flights of stairs today, and I weigh
about 245 or so...

So, is my metabolism going to crash? Am I going to lose some muscle mass
here, or do you all expect me to go on a hellish binge in a few minutes?
That thought seems to be lurking in the back of my head somewhere

Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry. I do plan to go back to normal calorie
intake tomorrow...

Roger,

Having had a really nasty metabolic slowdown from chronic undereating-- that
required medical intervention -- my guess, which is JMO, is that cycling your
calories is not going to be catabolic unless you 1. don't eat enough protein
(think Dave Draper) 2. do too much cardio and not enough lifting (cardio is
catabolic) and 3. don't go up enough on your high days.

When I was studying canine nutrition before I started preparing my own dogfood,
I had a professor tell me the most sensible thing I had ever heard in any
classroom setting. He expanded Dr. Billinghurst's two week balance into almost
a life philosophy.

Basically, he said that you shouldn't worry about *daily* food, diet, water,
exercise, insert topic of concern here, everything needs to be added up and
averaged over a two period.

With the exception of studying his course material, which should be done daily
with no exceptionsG

Robyn

Roger Zoul wrote:

So, is my metabolism going to crash? Am I going to lose some muscle mass
here, or do you all expect me to go on a hellish binge in a few minutes?
That thought seems to be lurking in the back of my head somewhere

Is your metabolism going to crash and greatly lower you metabolism for
the long haul? Probably not. Are you going to lose a pound of muscle
mass? Maybe not. But there are two issues that I'll bring up
regarding what you're doing and what I've had to learn the hard way.

At your age and current training level, how much real muscle mass can
you put on in a year? By real muscle mass (MM) I'm talking fiber
change and not the numbers that go up due to creatine/glycogen
loading. And let's make it to fit your current situation where you're
trying to add/keep mass while not gaining too much BF -- unlike
someone who's lean and more than willing to add on BF to gain LBM. OK,
take that number and divid it by weeks.

For myself, female, 43, been training hard for years... It would a
dream for me to add 5 lbs of MM in a year while trying not to gain
much BF -- 3 lbs might be more likely. That's with some hard
training, watching my food intake, timing everything to optimize
effect... all the lifestyle efforts combined. It comes out to around
1 oz. of MM a week. From my point of view, I'm not going to give up a
weeks worth of work just to see the number on the scale (or caliper)
change QUICKLY.

Could you have covered you carb-up damage across several days and not
risked losing an oz. of LBM? If you could have, yet choose to play a
more risky hand, why?

You know I've done TKD and CKD for many years and been LCing for a
while now. I've done 60-120 min. of cardio after carb-ups or periods
off plan eating to deplete my liver. But I make efforts to insure my
protein levels are high and I'll eat and rest to aid recovery -- and
yet I still worry about any LBM loss. Personally its been really
tempting to tie myself to the exercise wiping post and punish myself
by undereating as a way to cover whatever damage (real or perceived)
that poor eating choices might have caused. But I've learned that it
would be a one step back, and likely just a step forward -- basically
running in place. I've also learned to place great value on recovery
-- after having a soft tissue injury and repeated bouts overtraining,
or even how easy it is to get colds during weeks where I've
overstressed my body, the importance of recovery has finally sunk into
my brain.

As boring as it seems, and often is, moderate and measured dietary
adjustments is what has ended up working for me to make progress both
in gaining/keeping LBM and in losing BF.

Woven into the above is the underlying reasons of why? Why go so
overboard in over-eating/over-carbing? Then why feel like you have to
make up ground on that damage so quickly and with the risk?

I've been in maintenance for some time now and yet I have to work on
not overeating, LC or not LC, all the time. While I have no problem
exercising, I often have a hard time keeping my eating in line. After
9/11 I gained around 10-15lbs and just haven't been willing to work
too hard on my eating plan to get it off. The last couple of years
have been good for gaining some LBM, but not for leanness. This year
I decided that I wanted to get back down into the BF% teens again by
this summer (I've been hovering around 20-23% for most of the time).
So it been food logs and watching for that .5 lb difference each week.
No big WOW, no big dramatic numbers to validate my hard work. Yet
in the last two months the accumulative effect has produced results.

I think that if you did a survey of people who have long term success
at being fit, having low BF% and who have stayed generally heathy you
would be more likely to find a theme of moderation and consistence
verse dramatic swings extreme eating and exercising.

Just things for you to think about.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

marengo wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: JC Der Koenig wrote:
::::: In two days you're not going to lose much muscle or have your
::::: metabolism crash. The whole idea is absurd.
:::
::: That's what I think....
::
:: That's what I think too. Roger, Buddy! You're usually the one
:: that's giving rock-solid, level headed advice. You panicked like a
:: schoolgirl who forgot to use a condom on her date. Sounds as if the
:: measures you took after just one day of eating a bit too much was
:: overkill!



Actually, though it may seem like a panic, it really was not. It really
comes down to seeing what works. I've been noticing that my carb ups slow
weight loss. I did two weeks of UD2 back in early January, and on the
depletion days you're suppose to really cut calories, and then towards the
end of the week you're supposed to up them (carb up style). And the idea is
fat loss, mind you. I came through two weeks of that will no net change in
weight, even though I did see a big increase after the carb ups. I suspected
that I didn't drop calories enough.

In Feb. I started reducing calories and bypassing carbs up. Steady weight
loss. After the recent unplanned carb up, I just thought to myself -- look,
those calories are in me and there has got to be come finite amount of time
before they land on my butt as fat. What can I do to prevent that? Well,
as i don't believe that a couple of days of low food intake ought to be a
big deal, I just decided: my body, my science experiment (MBMSE). I was
curious to see if I could hold out on eating AND workout. And guess what I
found out? I can.

So, just as report, on Sunday morning I weighed 245 lbs. After going off
plan Sunday night, on Monday morning I was at 248 lbs. After a day of
netting zero intake, I was back at 245 lbs on Tuesday morning. After upping
the activity even more on Wednesday, and generating a deficit relative to
exercise and intake, I found myself slightly over 240 lbs this morning.

I don't believe that's real fat loss, so we'll see where I'm at toward the
end of the week. BTW, felt great in the gym last night.

I assure you I'm not about to go nuts....hmm....nuts....maybe I should get
some...

::
:: You'll be just fine. You have to be; we need you to be.
:: --

Ignoramus21909 wrote:
:: In article m,
:: marengo wrote:
::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::: JC Der Koenig wrote:
:::::: In two days you're not going to lose much muscle or have your
:::::: metabolism crash. The whole idea is absurd.
::::
:::: That's what I think....
:::
::: That's what I think too. Roger, Buddy! You're usually the one
::: that's giving rock-solid, level headed advice. You panicked like a
::: schoolgirl who forgot to use a condom on her date. Sounds as if the
::: measures you took after just one day of eating a bit too much was
::: overkill!
::
:: It was not unreasonable to skip one day of eating.
::
::: You'll be just fine. You have to be; we need you to be.
::
:: This Roger seems more knowledgeable or level-headed than he really
:: is. He simply adapted to his shortcomings to put up an impressive
:: front.
::

The word according to Ig. BTW, I'm glad I can adapt to my shortcomings.