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Why Bad Diets Are Bad?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 15th, 2011, 05:15 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

Who_me? wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

I considered a larger point by point reply but the above is all that
really needs to be addressed. There are a handfull of signs that
someone is here just to troll.


If disagreeing with those who have a closed minded viewpoint is trolling
then yes, I am trolling.


Even admitting that he's trolling. Ah well, one more for the kill file
after I post this.

One is lying
about Dr Atkins being overweight when he slipped on the ice and broke
his skull.


Who mentioned Atkins death?


I was the first to mention it but sure enough you dove into it face
first with lies. At 195 and 6' he was somewhere between at idle body
weight and a bit below it on his last day at work. He'd started looking
a bit gaunt in his last years but less so than most men his age. Life
long low carbing was very good for him. But do go right ahead and state
that he didn't have the body fat percentage of a competitive body
builder. It's what trolls do.

You do not need to go into Ketosis


True or low fat systems would work for no one.

is gains you nothing in a real sense.


False.

Carb cravings, for those who get carb cravings, turn off while in
ketosis. Ketonurian is easily tested and guarantees ketosis. The lack
of carb cravings while low carbing may be the biggest advantage that
low carbing has so a system that turns off carb cravings for those who
get them is a huge gain.

There is the initial water loss from low carbing and it is more for
folks who go into ketosis. That lower water retention tends to lower
blood pressure in folks who previously had high blood pressure. Dr A
stated that lowered blood pressure was the single most predictable
result of his plan.

Claiming that they already
had some degree of damage is disingenuous as all people have varying
degrees of kidney efficiency loss, particularly those who have no cared for
their health with regard to diet and exercise. When was the last time that
you had a full work-up?


I get urine tests every 3 years starting the year before I started low
carbing.

Irrelevancies about competitive body builders.


Why irrelevant?


Because there are a list of qualifiers for using his plan. Being a
marathoner or competitive body builder means his plan is not
appropriate.

In fact there are some low carbing marathoners and they do fine for
their age brackets but they aren't the competitors and they do follow
all of the Atkins guidelines including increased carb intake based on
amount of exercise. They tend to be at or over 100 grams per day on
their CCLM maintenance plans while running marathons. Low carbing does
increase endurance when the directions regarding exercise are followed.
As you did body building when you started it is clear you ignored that
part of the directions. Other parts as well - What's your CCLL and CCLM
and how did you measure them? No need to respond as I will have you in
my kill file once I post this.

It isn't just people who are fat who look for optimum diets
- people like me are just as relevant as people like you.


Different people, different optimal plan.

If a diet is
damaging to an athlete of any type, then it is not a good long term idea
for anyone.


Stupid people sometimes think so. They are incorrect. One percenters
need top percenter plans. Large population segment folks need large
segment plans.
  #22  
Old August 15th, 2011, 05:47 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On Aug 15, 12:15*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Who_me? wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:


I considered a larger point by point reply but the above is all that
really needs to be addressed. *There are a handfull of signs that
someone is here just to troll.


If disagreeing with those who have a closed minded viewpoint is trolling
then yes, I am trolling.


Even admitting that he's trolling. *Ah well, one more for the kill file
after I post this.

One is lying
about Dr Atkins being overweight when he slipped on the ice and broke
his skull.


Who mentioned Atkins death?


I was the first to mention it but sure enough you dove into it face
first with lies. *At 195 and 6' he was somewhere between at idle body
weight and a bit below it on his last day at work. *He'd started looking
a bit gaunt in his last years but less so than most men his age. *Life
long low carbing was very good for him. *But do go right ahead and state
that he didn't have the body fat percentage of a competitive body
builder. *It's what trolls do.

You do not need to go into Ketosis


True or low fat systems would work for no one.

is gains you nothing in a real sense.


False.

Carb cravings, for those who get carb cravings, turn off while in
ketosis. Ketonurian is easily tested and guarantees ketosis. The lack
of carb cravings while low carbing may be the biggest advantage that
low carbing has so a system that turns off carb cravings for those who
get them is a huge gain.



This is one of the most galling parts of this snob troll. He
dismisses the huge benefit that you get from LC which is
that it doesn't leave you hungry all the time as most
other diets do. The
part that proves him a fool is that Dukan, who's diet he
thinks is peachy keen, lists that as a key benefit. Dukan
obviously understands the importance of having a diet
that the average person can stick to. The snob thinks
anyone that succumbs to carb cravings or hunger is
just a weak person. He refuses to even acknowledge
what we all know and that is that people are genetically
different and there is a genetic component contributing
to obesity, making it harder for some people to lose
or maintain weight.

In addition to putting you into ketosis in the first phase
Dukan does not limit the quantities of food you can
have. Sound familiar? It also has 4 phases, adding
back in good carbs, just like Atkins. In short, it's very
similar.

One place it's different is that in the "Attack Phase", it's
almost pure protein. The only fat on the list of foods
allowed is dairy product with less than 5% fat. You do
that for 10 days. Yet, somehow that is both safe and
a great diet. Yet, Atkins which starts you off at 20g
a day of carbs together with fat, is supposed to
make your kidneys explode.

I think truth is he knows very little about either Atkins
or Dukan. He's certainly made a complete ass of
himself here.






There is the initial water loss from low carbing and it is more for
folks who go into ketosis. *That lower water retention tends to lower
blood pressure in folks who previously had high blood pressure. *Dr A
stated that lowered blood pressure was the single most predictable
result of his plan.

Claiming that they already
had some degree of damage is disingenuous as all people have varying
degrees of kidney efficiency loss, particularly those who have no cared for
their health with regard to diet and exercise. When was the last time that
you had a full work-up?


I get urine tests every 3 years starting the year before I started low
carbing.

*Irrelevancies about competitive body builders.


Why irrelevant?


Because there are a list of qualifiers for using his plan. *Being a
marathoner or competitive body builder means his plan is not
appropriate.

In fact there are some low carbing marathoners and they do fine for
their age brackets but they aren't the competitors and they do follow
all of the Atkins guidelines including increased carb intake based on
amount of exercise. They tend to be at or over 100 grams per day on
their CCLM maintenance plans while running marathons. *Low carbing does
increase endurance when the directions regarding exercise are followed.
As you did body building when you started it is clear you ignored that
part of the directions. *Other parts as well - What's your CCLL and CCLM
and how did you measure them? *No need to respond as I will have you in
my kill file once I post this.

It isn't just people who are fat who look for optimum diets
- people like me are just as relevant as people like you.


Different people, different optimal plan.

If a diet is
damaging to an athlete of any type, then it is not a good long term idea
for anyone.


Stupid people sometimes think so. *They are incorrect. *One percenters
need top percenter plans. *Large population segment folks need large
segment plans.


  #23  
Old August 15th, 2011, 06:57 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Harold Groot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:57:59 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

On 15/08/11 8:26 PM, Harold Groot wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:08:15 +1000,
wrote:

On 15/08/11 4:20 PM, Harold Groot wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 02:27:46 +1000,
wrote:

Do you take gullibility pills? If that was the case, why don't all corpses
of people who die after hospitalisation gain weight over their initial weight?

The controversy started BEFORE he died, before he went into hospital after
a photo of him was circulated showing a huge weight gain. The Atkins group
claim that it was a Photoshopped image. Maybe it was, but his autopsy
photos weren't.

According to the official hospital records (released by his widow), he
weighed 195 when he was admitted to the hospital on 4/8/2003. At 6
feet tall, that may not be the absolute optimum but it's certainly a
quite reasonable weight.

According to the official death certificate, he weighed 258 at the
time of his death on 4/17/2003 (after having been in a coma for more
than a week). This is consistent with kidney failure and fluid
accumulation. You had IV fluids going in (with nutrition and
medicines to try to keep him alive) and no fluids coming out. Of
course a person gains weight when that happens. A fluid in a 2-liter
IV bag weighs a bit over 4 pounds. If he gets only 2 IV bags per day,
that's over 8 pounds/day. In a week that's over 56 pounds. Get the
picture?

Why don't all people who die after hospitalization gain huge amounts
of weight? Gee, do you think it might have something to do with the
fact that the great majority do NOT go through kidney failure and get
kept alive for a significant amount of time in that state?

You might want to consider how many gullibility pills YOU have been
swallowing.


People in hospital who have kidney failure are on dialysis, conscious or in
a coma. There would have been no massive fluid retention. Better swallow
some more pills, reality is sneaking up on you.


I'm quite familiar with Kidney failure and dialysis, thank you very
much. My mother is currently on dialysis, and I help her with it. But
there can be reasons why a person would not be put on it. If other
organs are already failing, for example, the person would probably not
be a candidate for dialysis (even the emergency sort performed with no
prior preparation). Dr. Atkins died of "multiple organ failure", so
it would seem reasonable likely that that was the case with him. But
not having the full case files, it's rather hard to prove anything.

You still haven't explained the official hospital record showing his
weight WHEN HE WAS ADMITTED to be 195. Do you think that that
official record is just part of some vast conspiracy?




I have been in hospital several times in my life, three time admitted with
illness or injury of a serious nature. I have attended when several other
people have been admitted. Not once have I, my wife, or those who I was
associated with been actually weighed on admission. Usually it is the
person who attends the admission, the friend or family member of the
patient who fills in the forms that ask - among other things - age, weight,
allergies, etc. I can still recall my wife's indignation when she was
admitted for kidney stones and I had given her weight as 110lbs when she
was actually 105.

Not doing too well so far - would you like to try harder?


I've also been admitted to the hospital and have been with others who
were admitted. Taking weight, temperature and blood pressure was
standard. You know, actual MEASUREMENTS of medically significant
items. Heck, that's standard even on a routine visit to a doctor in
his office.

And besides, the difference between 105 and 110 is not immediately
visible. You apparently couldn't tell, even with someone you were
very familiar with. So in a situation as you describe, I can see an
error like that not getting caught. But a difference between 195 and
258 is very obvious. That ought to get an answer of "Are you kidding
me? C'mon, we really need to know his correct weight."

So you, so far, are not impressing ME. All you offer is "the doctors
who treated him, the person who admitted him, and all his co-workers
are all lying, it's all a big conspiracy" without offering a shred of
proof. So I guess we're done here. You're going to believe what you
want to believe, and nothing is going to change that.
  #24  
Old August 16th, 2011, 02:34 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Who_me?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 16/08/11 3:57 AM, Harold Groot wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:57:59 +1000,
wrote:

On 15/08/11 8:26 PM, Harold Groot wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:08:15 +1000,
wrote:

On 15/08/11 4:20 PM, Harold Groot wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 02:27:46 +1000,
wrote:

Do you take gullibility pills? If that was the case, why don't all corpses
of people who die after hospitalisation gain weight over their initial weight?

The controversy started BEFORE he died, before he went into hospital after
a photo of him was circulated showing a huge weight gain. The Atkins group
claim that it was a Photoshopped image. Maybe it was, but his autopsy
photos weren't.

According to the official hospital records (released by his widow), he
weighed 195 when he was admitted to the hospital on 4/8/2003. At 6
feet tall, that may not be the absolute optimum but it's certainly a
quite reasonable weight.

According to the official death certificate, he weighed 258 at the
time of his death on 4/17/2003 (after having been in a coma for more
than a week). This is consistent with kidney failure and fluid
accumulation. You had IV fluids going in (with nutrition and
medicines to try to keep him alive) and no fluids coming out. Of
course a person gains weight when that happens. A fluid in a 2-liter
IV bag weighs a bit over 4 pounds. If he gets only 2 IV bags per day,
that's over 8 pounds/day. In a week that's over 56 pounds. Get the
picture?

Why don't all people who die after hospitalization gain huge amounts
of weight? Gee, do you think it might have something to do with the
fact that the great majority do NOT go through kidney failure and get
kept alive for a significant amount of time in that state?

You might want to consider how many gullibility pills YOU have been
swallowing.


People in hospital who have kidney failure are on dialysis, conscious or in
a coma. There would have been no massive fluid retention. Better swallow
some more pills, reality is sneaking up on you.

I'm quite familiar with Kidney failure and dialysis, thank you very
much. My mother is currently on dialysis, and I help her with it. But
there can be reasons why a person would not be put on it. If other
organs are already failing, for example, the person would probably not
be a candidate for dialysis (even the emergency sort performed with no
prior preparation). Dr. Atkins died of "multiple organ failure", so
it would seem reasonable likely that that was the case with him. But
not having the full case files, it's rather hard to prove anything.

You still haven't explained the official hospital record showing his
weight WHEN HE WAS ADMITTED to be 195. Do you think that that
official record is just part of some vast conspiracy?




I have been in hospital several times in my life, three time admitted with
illness or injury of a serious nature. I have attended when several other
people have been admitted. Not once have I, my wife, or those who I was
associated with been actually weighed on admission. Usually it is the
person who attends the admission, the friend or family member of the
patient who fills in the forms that ask - among other things - age, weight,
allergies, etc. I can still recall my wife's indignation when she was
admitted for kidney stones and I had given her weight as 110lbs when she
was actually 105.

Not doing too well so far - would you like to try harder?


I've also been admitted to the hospital and have been with others who
were admitted. Taking weight, temperature and blood pressure was
standard. You know, actual MEASUREMENTS of medically significant
items. Heck, that's standard even on a routine visit to a doctor in
his office.


Of course they take BP, temp etc., that is vital and to be expected, but
they DON'T take a comatose patient and weigh him or her.

The first time I was weighed in any visit was only once I was ambulatory.
How the hell could they weigh me beforehand when I was in a hospital bed
and hooked up to drips, IV's, nerve blocks, oxygen and telemetry equipment?
They can't.

  #25  
Old August 16th, 2011, 02:42 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Who_me?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:
On Aug 14, 12:27 pm, wrote:
On 14/08/11 11:04 PM, wrote:

Atkins is widely known, and widely disputed, pilloried and slammed by not
just people like me but by the medical profession - Atkins peers - by
research organisations like Harvard, by Government bodies, by nutritionists
and media. It always has been, right from his very first book release. If
you aren't aware of that then you must be living in a cave.


I know there are plenty of Atkins bashers out there, including
you. But it is you who is living in a cave, because the same
people bashing Atkins say similar things about your boy
Dukan and his diet:


Not my boy and I would be absolutely amazed if they weren't detractors for
his regimen.What I said - if you care to actually read - is that his diet,
in the maintenance phase is pretty close to the my diet. I also stated
quite clearly that I had not used his diet.



That may be true for some people. For others, trying to just cut
back on carbs that way, without following the Atkins plan starting
with induction, will
lead to hunger, cravings and failure with the diet. Snobs like
you then look down on those people as failures due to lack
of willpower. Why, it worked for me.... Anyone for who that
doesn't work is just a weak person.


Yep. That is EXACTLY what I think. Many people are weak willed. Even people
who I love and care about number among them. My approach is to work on that
will, not take away the temptation with diets that kill appetite. Why not
have your taste buds lasered off?


You really are an elitist snob aren't you?


No, not a snob, just a realist.


Must be nice to be you.


It - most of the time.

You fail to acknowledge there are a lot of people who's bodies
respond differently, who have different genetics, where if
they ate what you did they would feel hungry all the time and
hence be driven to eat.


Because that is cop out bull****.

Hunger is one of the most powerful
forces in the body. Even scientists today do not understand
exactly what drives it and there is continuing research to
understand it. You, on the other hand, know it all and just
look down at those folks as being weak.


Yep because in most instance those claiming to be hungry arren't Look at
what they refuse and what they chose to eat when supposedly "starving".
You know
so much that you claim genetics does not play a role in
obesity. Talk about living in a cave, that is a classic.


Very seldom does genetics play any role at all. Force someone to eat well
and exercise regularly and they will become fit and lose the "medically
impossible to lose" fat. There are exceptions, but almost every fat person
claims to be one of those exceptions.



Note that I'm not saying that's what's responsible for all
obesity. But to deny that a diet that greatly reduces
hunger is not an advantage because it's not needed is
just nuts.


I would rather see support to increase willpower and reduce self
indulgence. Reducing weight by camouflaging hunger is pointless, it is a
crutch and doomed to eventual failure.

Apparently, it isn't enough for people to
just lose weight. They have to do it YOUR way and
you prefer they suffer as much as possible.


I don't care how they do it, but if they use Atkins and feel that they need
to stay with Atkins, then they haven't lost weight, they have simply put it
aside temporarily.

Are
you a sadist?


Sometimes.



First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. You just said the Dukan diet. I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.


Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.
  #26  
Old August 16th, 2011, 03:09 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Who_me?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:
On Aug 14, 12:27 pm, wrote:
On 14/08/11 11:04 PM, wrote:

Atkins is widely known, and widely disputed, pilloried and slammed by not
just people like me but by the medical profession - Atkins peers - by
research organisations like Harvard, by Government bodies, by nutritionists
and media. It always has been, right from his very first book release. If
you aren't aware of that then you must be living in a cave.


I know there are plenty of Atkins bashers out there, including
you. But it is you who is living in a cave, because the same
people bashing Atkins say similar things about your boy
Dukan and his diet:


He's not my boy and I would be absolutely amazed if there weren't
detractors for his regimen. What I said - if you care to actually read - is
that his diet, in the maintenance phase is pretty close to my normal diet.
I also stated quite clearly that I had not used his diet.



That may be true for some people. For others, trying to just cut
back on carbs that way, without following the Atkins plan starting
with induction, will
lead to hunger, cravings and failure with the diet. Snobs like
you then look down on those people as failures due to lack
of willpower. Why, it worked for me.... Anyone for who that
doesn't work is just a weak person.


Yep. That is EXACTLY what I think. Many people are weak willed. Even people
who I love and care about number among them. My approach is to work on that
will, not take away the temptation with diets that kill appetite. Why not
have your taste buds lasered off?


You really are an elitist snob aren't you?


No, not a snob, just a realist.


Must be nice to be you.


It - most of the time.

You fail to acknowledge there are a lot of people who's bodies
respond differently, who have different genetics, where if
they ate what you did they would feel hungry all the time and
hence be driven to eat.


Because that is cop out bull****.

Hunger is one of the most powerful
forces in the body. Even scientists today do not understand
exactly what drives it and there is continuing research to
understand it. You, on the other hand, know it all and just
look down at those folks as being weak.


Yep because in most instance those claiming to be hungry aren't Look at
what they refuse and what they chose to eat when supposedly "starving".

You know
so much that you claim genetics does not play a role in
obesity. Talk about living in a cave, that is a classic.


Very seldom does genetics play any role at all. Force someone to eat well
and exercise regularly and they will become fit and lose the "medically
impossible to lose" fat. There are exceptions, but almost every fat person
claims to be one of those exceptions.


Note that I'm not saying that's what's responsible for all
obesity. But to deny that a diet that greatly reduces
hunger is not an advantage because it's not needed is
just nuts.


I would rather see support to increase willpower and reduce self
indulgence. Reducing weight by camouflaging hunger is pointless, it is a
crutch and doomed to eventual failure.

Apparently, it isn't enough for people to
just lose weight. They have to do it YOUR way and
you prefer they suffer as much as possible.


I don't care how they do it, but if they use Atkins and feel that they need
to stay with Atkins, then they haven't lost weight, they have simply put it
aside temporarily.

Are you a sadist?


Sometimes.



First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. You just said the Dukan diet. I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.


Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.

This is what I said:

"I am not advocating it. I simply noted that the ongoing diet, the
stabilisation stage is nearly identical to my own. I have not tried it,
though I have read copies of all the books - even the original French."



  #27  
Old August 16th, 2011, 05:02 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On Aug 15, 9:42*pm, Who_me? wrote:
On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:27 pm, *wrote:
On 14/08/11 11:04 PM, wrote:


Atkins is widely known, and widely disputed, pilloried and slammed by not
just people like me but by the medical profession - Atkins peers - by
research organisations like Harvard, by Government bodies, by nutritionists
and media. It always has been, right from his very first book release. If
you aren't aware of that then you must be living in a cave.


I know there are plenty of Atkins bashers out there, including
you. *But it is you who is living in a cave, because the same
people bashing Atkins say similar things about your boy
Dukan and his diet:


Not my boy and I would be absolutely amazed if they weren't detractors for
his regimen.What I said - if you care to actually read - is that his diet,
in the maintenance phase is pretty close to the my diet. I also stated
quite clearly that I had not used his diet.


Iou agree there are detractors for his diet, which you claim
is great, yet you bring up detractors of the Atkins diet. A
hypocrit and troll for sure.





That may be true for some people. *For others, trying to just cut
back on carbs that way, without following the Atkins plan starting
with induction, will
lead to hunger, cravings and failure with the diet. * Snobs like
you then look down on those people as failures due to lack
of willpower. * Why, it worked for me.... *Anyone for who that
doesn't work is just a weak person.


Yep. That is EXACTLY what I think. Many people are weak willed. Even people
who I love and care about number among them. My approach is to work on that
will, not take away the temptation with diets that kill appetite. Why not
have your taste buds lasered off?


You really are an elitist snob aren't you?


No, not a snob, just a realist.

Must be nice to be you.


It - most of the time.

You fail to acknowledge *there are a lot of people who's bodies
respond differently, who have different genetics, where if
they ate what you did they would feel hungry all the time and
hence be driven to eat.


Because that is cop out bull****.

Hunger is one of the most powerful
forces in the body. *Even scientists today do not understand
exactly what drives it and there is continuing research to
understand it. *You, on the other hand, know it all and just
look down at those folks as being weak.


Yep because in most instance those claiming to be hungry arren't Look at
what they refuse and what they chose to eat when supposedly "starving".

You know
so much that you claim genetics does not play a role in
obesity. *Talk about living in a cave, that is a classic.


Very seldom does genetics play any role at all.



Just another example of how totally ignorant you are. Now,
who should we believe, you or the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/Obesity/

Scientists have made great advances in understanding important
environmental causes of obesity as well as identifying several genes
that might be implicated. Major efforts are now directed toward
assessing the interactions of genes and environment in the obesity
epidemic

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1016074958.htm
Genetics Has Key Role In Obesity
ScienceDaily (Oct. 17, 2007) — New evidence that genetics plays
a key role in obesity is published in the International Journal of
Bioinformatics Research and Applications. The findings relate to
the genetics of modern Pima Indians who have an unusually high
rate of obesity but the finding could be extrapolated to all people.
Their obesity is thought to be linked to a thrifty metabolism that
allowed them to metabolize food more efficiently in times when
little was available but causes problems when food is in abundance.




Force someone to eat well
and exercise regularly and they will become fit and lose the "medically
impossible to lose" fat. There are exceptions, but almost every fat person
claims to be one of those exceptions.


The obvious point is that you can't put people in a cage
and force them to do anything. I also know from personal
experience as does everyone else in this discussion but
you, that Atkins or any similar LC plan, sharply curtails
hunger. That is an important point, for any reasonable
person, but obviously that excludes you. It's a diet
that more people can stay on without failing.







Note that I'm not saying that's what's responsible for all
obesity. *But to deny that a diet that greatly reduces
hunger is not an advantage because it's not needed is
just nuts.


I would rather see support to increase willpower and reduce self
indulgence. Reducing weight by camouflaging hunger is pointless, it is a
crutch and doomed to eventual failure.


Who gives a rat's ass what you want to see?





Apparently, it isn't enough for people to
just lose weight. *They have to do it YOUR way and
you prefer they suffer as much as possible.


I don't care how they do it, but if they use Atkins and feel that they need
to stay with Atkins, then they haven't lost weight, they have simply put it
aside temporarily.


Another classic non-sequitor.


* *Are

you a sadist?


Sometimes.


Perhaps the only honest thing you've posted.






First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. *You just said the Dukan diet. *I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. *So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.


Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.


You're the troll with the closed eyes. You only added the
ongoing part after you were caught and exposed as not
realizing that the Duakn diet starting out is pure protein
and hence, if there were any kidney issues, it would be
even more harmful than Atkins. In fact, the Dukan diet
is very similar to Atkins. The fact that you slammed
Atkins, together with the fact that you don't understand
that Atkins includes vegetable, etc, shows that you
actually don't know much about either Atkins or Dukan.
  #28  
Old August 17th, 2011, 01:24 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Who_me?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 17/08/11 2:02 AM, wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:42 pm, wrote:
On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:





First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. You just said the Dukan diet. I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.


Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.


You're the troll with the closed eyes. You only added the
ongoing part after you were caught and exposed as not
realizing that the Duakn diet starting out...


Caught and exposed? You are comical - and not very closely in touch with
reality. Caught and exposed - what a funny and somewhat pathetic little man
you are.

Elucidating for those who seem unable or unwilling to use their intellect.

If you are smart enough, try going back a decade or so and finding my
original posts on Atkins, using my original nick - back when this group was
actually active. Had a lot of discussion in those days, with a lot of
people on both sides of the fence. My writing style should make locating my
posts (there were a lot of them) easy to locate. It will give you something
to do to take your mind off your carb cravings.

Two things you should remember.

One: this is NOT an Atkins group, it is a low carb group, and try to hide
from the fact as determinedly as you are, the fact is that there are many,
many non-Atkins low carb options.

Two: The Atkins Diet, according to the Atkins group itself, died several
years ago when they had to file for chapter eleven protection - as NO ONE
was buying the product and they losing more money that they were
generating. They filed this information with the court - that is a matter
of record. If the company who runs Atkins thinks it has run its course -
what does that make you? I can't recall the last time I went to any store
and found Atkins products on the shelves, although there are any number of
other low carb diet products available. I suppose that some stores might be
still holding some years out of date stock, but I haven't seen or heard of
them.



  #29  
Old August 17th, 2011, 06:08 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

In article ,
Who_me? wrote:

On 17/08/11 2:02 AM, wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:42 pm, wrote:
On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:





First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. You just said the Dukan diet. I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.

Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.


You're the troll with the closed eyes. You only added the
ongoing part after you were caught and exposed as not
realizing that the Duakn diet starting out...


Caught and exposed? You are comical - and not very closely in touch with
reality. Caught and exposed - what a funny and somewhat pathetic little man
you are.

Elucidating for those who seem unable or unwilling to use their intellect.

If you are smart enough, try going back a decade or so and finding my
original posts on Atkins, using my original nick - back when this group was
actually active. Had a lot of discussion in those days, with a lot of
people on both sides of the fence. My writing style should make locating my
posts (there were a lot of them) easy to locate. It will give you something
to do to take your mind off your carb cravings.

Two things you should remember.

One: this is NOT an Atkins group, it is a low carb group, and try to hide
from the fact as determinedly as you are, the fact is that there are many,
many non-Atkins low carb options.

Two: The Atkins Diet, according to the Atkins group itself, died several
years ago when they had to file for chapter eleven protection - as NO ONE
was buying the product and they losing more money that they were
generating. They filed this information with the court - that is a matter
of record. If the company who runs Atkins thinks it has run its course -
what does that make you? I can't recall the last time I went to any store
and found Atkins products on the shelves, although there are any number of
other low carb diet products available. I suppose that some stores might be
still holding some years out of date stock, but I haven't seen or heard of
them.


Wha'chew doing in a group like this? Go somewhere where you can do some
good.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And itıs not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thatıs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they donıt get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis
  #30  
Old August 17th, 2011, 07:09 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Who_me?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 17/08/11 3:08 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 17/08/11 2:02 AM, wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:42 pm, wrote:
On 16/08/11 12:08 AM, wrote:





First, you did NOT say that the ongoing Dukan diet is nearly
identical to your own. You just said the Dukan diet. I would
suspect that the ongoing phase of the Dukan diet is very
similar to Atkins. So, once again, you're twisting and
turning.

Read through the thread again - try it with your eyes open this time.

You're the troll with the closed eyes. You only added the
ongoing part after you were caught and exposed as not
realizing that the Duakn diet starting out...


Caught and exposed? You are comical - and not very closely in touch with
reality. Caught and exposed - what a funny and somewhat pathetic little man
you are.

Elucidating for those who seem unable or unwilling to use their intellect.

If you are smart enough, try going back a decade or so and finding my
original posts on Atkins, using my original nick - back when this group was
actually active. Had a lot of discussion in those days, with a lot of
people on both sides of the fence. My writing style should make locating my
posts (there were a lot of them) easy to locate. It will give you something
to do to take your mind off your carb cravings.

Two things you should remember.

One: this is NOT an Atkins group, it is a low carb group, and try to hide
from the fact as determinedly as you are, the fact is that there are many,
many non-Atkins low carb options.

Two: The Atkins Diet, according to the Atkins group itself, died several
years ago when they had to file for chapter eleven protection - as NO ONE
was buying the product and they losing more money that they were
generating. They filed this information with the court - that is a matter
of record. If the company who runs Atkins thinks it has run its course -
what does that make you? I can't recall the last time I went to any store
and found Atkins products on the shelves, although there are any number of
other low carb diet products available. I suppose that some stores might be
still holding some years out of date stock, but I haven't seen or heard of
them.


Wha'chew doing in a group like this? Go somewhere where you can do some
good.


I was hoping for some intelligent discussion on low carb lifestyle from
people who weren't rabid close-minded Atkin's groupies. This used to be a
far more widely populated NG - a few years ago when I last looked. In those
days a lot of regulars were from diabetic and fitness groups - many of whom
had an interest in low carb but not limited to Atkins. When I last posted
here Atkins was already being supplanted by Agatston & Almon's South Beach
Diet.


 




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