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Heart poison
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/heart-poison/ "Those nice people who make gluten-free foods with junk carbohydrate ingredients don’t know that their products cause coronary disease and heart attacks, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension, diabetes, inflammation, and growth of visceral fat. Note that the small LDL particles triggered by gluten-free carbohydrates, as in Claire’s example, persist for 10 days after one indulgence. In other words, if Claire only has a gluten-free slice of bread or a bagel every 10 days, she has small LDL particles and risk for heart disease 7 days a week, 30 days a month, 12 months a year. "So, among the several deleterious effects of gluten-free junk carbohydrates is triggering of small LDL particles, the most common cause for coronary disease and heart attack in North America today. Gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are poisons to your heart." -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#2
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Heart poison
Dogman wrote:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/heart-poison/ "Those nice people who make gluten-free foods with junk carbohydrate ingredients don’t know that their products cause coronary disease and heart attacks, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension, diabetes, inflammation, and growth of visceral fat. Note that the small LDL particles triggered by gluten-free carbohydrates, as in Claire’s example, persist for 10 days after one indulgence. In other words, if Claire only has a gluten-free slice of bread or a bagel every 10 days, she has small LDL particles and risk for heart disease 7 days a week, 30 days a month, 12 months a year. "So, among the several deleterious effects of gluten-free junk carbohydrates is triggering of small LDL particles, the most common cause for coronary disease and heart attack in North America today. Gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are poisons to your heart." So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? Time will tell. Given the relative health of those who use rice or potatoes as a base of a diet that never leads them to obesity (same as using wheat before the invention of refining mills), it's s stretch to say they are bad in small quantities except to people who've already become fat. |
#3
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Heart poison
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:07:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote: Dogman wrote: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/heart-poison/ "Those nice people who make gluten-free foods with junk carbohydrate ingredients don’t know that their products cause coronary disease and heart attacks, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension, diabetes, inflammation, and growth of visceral fat. Note that the small LDL particles triggered by gluten-free carbohydrates, as in Claire’s example, persist for 10 days after one indulgence. In other words, if Claire only has a gluten-free slice of bread or a bagel every 10 days, she has small LDL particles and risk for heart disease 7 days a week, 30 days a month, 12 months a year. "So, among the several deleterious effects of gluten-free junk carbohydrates is triggering of small LDL particles, the most common cause for coronary disease and heart attack in North America today. Gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are poisons to your heart." So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? Time will tell. I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. Given the relative health of those who use rice or potatoes as a base of a diet that never leads them to obesity (same as using wheat before the invention of refining mills), it's s stretch to say they are bad in small quantities except to people who've already become fat. Define "relative health." Having a high number of small LDL particles, according to recent studies, is a strong risk factor for CHD. I would assume that applies to many people who are not fat. My hunch is that they're bad for various subsets of the population, but not for everyone. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#4
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Heart poison
Dogman wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote: Dogman wrote: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/heart-poison/ "Those nice people who make gluten-free foods with junk carbohydrate ingredients don’t know that their products cause coronary disease and heart attacks, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension, diabetes, inflammation, and growth of visceral fat. Note that the small LDL particles triggered by gluten-free carbohydrates, as in Claire’s example, persist for 10 days after one indulgence. In other words, if Claire only has a gluten-free slice of bread or a bagel every 10 days, she has small LDL particles and risk for heart disease 7 days a week, 30 days a month, 12 months a year. "So, among the several deleterious effects of gluten-free junk carbohydrates is triggering of small LDL particles, the most common cause for coronary disease and heart attack in North America today. Gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are poisons to your heart." So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? Time will tell. I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. That "the nice people" bit does imply that the folks who put such products on the market are/were unaware of such risks. That's definitely true of the folks who put maragine on the market decades ago. A lot of people though maragerine was beneficial until the long term studies showed otherwise. Given the relative health of those who use rice or potatoes as a base of a diet that never leads them to obesity (same as using wheat before the invention of refining mills), it's s stretch to say they are bad in small quantities except to people who've already become fat. Define "relative health." Chuckle. A lot of people who never saw an abundance of food in their entire lives looked heathly. Very poorly defined. Having a high number of small LDL particles, according to recent studies, is a strong risk factor for CHD. I would assume that applies to many people who are not fat. My hunch is that they're bad for various subsets of the population, but not for everyone. My initial hunch is it's bad for anyone who's ever gotten fat, so that's a different hunch than yours. It's not like we can play paper scissors rock and get the real answer. ;^) |
#5
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Heart poison
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:07:26 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote: [...] I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. That "the nice people" bit does imply that the folks who put such products on the market are/were unaware of such risks. That's definitely true of the folks who put maragine on the market decades ago. A lot of people though maragerine was beneficial until the long term studies showed otherwise. Given what we now know about HFCS, etc., it's not hard to imagine that "the nice people" knew exactly what they were doing. Heinlen's Razor says: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. But when they do it over and over again? I ain't buying it. [...] Having a high number of small LDL particles, according to recent studies, is a strong risk factor for CHD. I would assume that applies to many people who are not fat. My hunch is that they're bad for various subsets of the population, but not for everyone. My initial hunch is it's bad for anyone who's ever gotten fat, so that's a different hunch than yours. It's not like we can play paper scissors rock and get the real answer. ;^) That's probably just as "scientific" as many of today's "studies" are. What's the p-value for paper...rock...scissors, anyway? Heh. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#6
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Heart poison
On Aug 31, 6:02*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:07:26 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger wrote: [...] I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. That "the nice people" bit does imply that the folks who put such products on the market are/were unaware of such risks. *That's definitely true of the folks who put maragine on the market decades ago. A lot of people though maragerine was beneficial until the long term studies showed otherwise. Given what we now know about HFCS, etc., it's not hard to imagine that "the nice people" knew exactly what they were doing. Another evil conspiracy theory. It couldn't be the perfectly logical idea that the "nice people" are just giving people what they want, ie gluten free products very similar to the ones they are currently consuming. |
#7
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Heart poison
On Aug 31, 3:35*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:07:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger wrote: Dogman wrote: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/heart-poison/ "Those nice people who make gluten-free foods with junk carbohydrate ingredients don’t know that their products cause coronary disease and heart attacks, cataracts, arthritis, hypertension, diabetes, inflammation, and growth of visceral fat. Note that the small LDL particles triggered by gluten-free carbohydrates, as in Claire’s example, persist for 10 days after one indulgence. In other words, if Claire only has a gluten-free slice of bread or a bagel every 10 days, she has small LDL particles and risk for heart disease 7 days a week, 30 days a month, 12 months a year. "So, among the several deleterious effects of gluten-free junk carbohydrates is triggering of small LDL particles, the most common cause for coronary disease and heart attack in North America today. Gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are poisons to your heart." So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? *Time will tell. I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. Of course claims are being made. And there are plenty of people who question "WheatBelly"'s grounding in science, his use of studies, etc. And some of them are people with Celiac disease who say he's misrepresenting studies, ignoring what doesn't agree with what he claims, etc. Given the relative health of those who use rice or potatoes as a base of a diet that never leads them to obesity (same as using wheat before the invention of refining mills), it's s stretch to say they are bad in small quantities except to people who've already become fat. Define "relative health." I think Doug is talking about the many people in Asian countries who eat lots of rice and/or noodles and who are doing fine. It's kind of like the French paradox. You can't just look at what agrees with your views and ignore the rest. That evidence is a lot more compelling to me than WheatBelly's claims that wheat is the root of all evil. I see people buying into his claims because they cut out wheat and they are losing weight, or feel better. But they have, in most cases, also cut out a lot of other refined carbs, ie they are doing a reduced carb die. In fact, that appears to be exactly what WheatBelly is advocating in the above excerpt. It's not just wheat, it's refined carbs. So, which is it? Wheat or just too many refined carbs? My personal view is it's more likely the latter. But even then, it's not that simple. Some people can do fine on higher carb diets. Having a high number of small LDL particles, according to recent studies, is a strong risk factor for CHD. I would assume that applies to many people who are not fat. And like so many studies, it would not surprise me to find that in another few years there will be another study that suggests something else. |
#8
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Heart poison
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:41:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: [...] So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? *Time will tell. I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. Of course claims are being made. And there are plenty of people who question "WheatBelly"'s grounding in science, his use of studies, etc. There are plenty of people who question the low-carb way of eating, its grounding in science, etc. But you claim to eat low-carb anyway, right? Why is that? And some of them are people with Celiac disease who say he's misrepresenting studies, ignoring what doesn't agree with what he claims, etc. That *is* funny, since you apparently ignore all the people who don't agree with LCHF, HPV, HIV, prions, etc. Admit it, you just ignore those things that don't conform with your preconceived notions. And that's dumb. Given the relative health of those who use rice or potatoes as a base of a diet that never leads them to obesity (same as using wheat before the invention of refining mills), it's s stretch to say they are bad in small quantities except to people who've already become fat. Define "relative health." I think Doug is talking Why are you always speaking for Doug? He does a good job of doing that himself, don't you think? about the many people in Asian countries who eat lots of rice and/or noodles and who are doing fine. It's kind of like the French paradox. You can't just look at what agrees with your views and ignore the rest. I don't ignore any views. And they're actually not doing so fine. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-a...#axzz1l3sFmGFn "Is Asia Even All That Healthier Anymore? "Healthy, long-lived Asia isn’t so healthy and long-lived. Both China and India are facing diabetes epidemics. In Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, and Thailand, diabetes is also increasing. The perfect storm – of sedentary living, processed junk food full of carbs and bad fats, and poor sleep – that has ravaged America and other industrialized nations for almost a century and led to a host of debilitating illnesses is beginning to descend upon Asia. Cooking oils have displaced traditional animal fats and sugar intake is rising. People walk less and eat more wheat. "Even the low BMIs of Asian countries are misleading. At equal BMIs, Asians generally have more body fat than other groups (PDF). So, on average, the American or the Pacific Islander with a BMI of 25 has less body fat than the Chinese guy with a BMI of 25. It’s not clear whether these higher body fat levels (at lower BMIs) correspond to increased risks for certain diseases, but it does suggest that BMI is an unreliable barometer for a country’s leanness on a particular diet. You can be skinny-fat with a low BMI – and it appears that significant numbers of Asians with low BMIs fit that profile. "So, like every other one before it, the Asian Paradox topples: there is actually no paradox. Asian countries remain lean (if they’re actually lean, that is) on a rice-heavy diet by virtue of lots of low-level aerobic activity to promote insulin sensitivity, lots of nutrient-dense food to go with that rice, and because rice is the least offensive grain." http://aadi.joslin.org/content/asian...betes-epidemic But I don't eat like an Asian eats, nor do you. That evidence is a lot more compelling to me than WheatBelly's claims that wheat is the root of all evil. Even if that "evidence" is mostly bull caca? I see people buying into his claims because they cut out wheat and they are losing weight, or feel better. But they have, in most cases, also cut out a lot of other refined carbs, ie they are doing a reduced carb die. No they haven't. If you took the time to read the comments on the Wheat Belly site, you'd see that most of these people only illiminated wheat. Period. Overall carb levels were otherwise maintained. But the only valid "study" is the one you can perform on yourself. Just stop eating wheat for 30-60 days, and watch what happens. So, which is it? Wheat or just too many refined carbs? It's both! But a person can get pretty far down the road by just eliminating wheat. He can get even farther down the road by retricting other carbs, too. Having a high number of small LDL particles, according to recent studies, is a strong risk factor for CHD. I would assume that applies to many people who are not fat. And like so many studies, it would not surprise me to find that in another few years there will be another study that suggests something else. That's the way the cookie crumbles. But to generally ignore all studies is to drive a car while wearing a blindfold! And that's dumb. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#9
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Heart poison
Dogman wrote:
" wrote: Define "relative health." I think Doug is talking about the many people in Asian countries who eat lots of rice and/or noodles and who are doing fine. It's kind of like the French paradox. You can't just look at what agrees with your views and ignore the rest. Plus poor potato eaters in Europe, The problem is that model depnds on food not being available in abundance - I don't ignore any views. And they're actually not doing so fine. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-a...#axzz1l3sFmGFn "Is Asia Even All That Healthier Anymore? "Healthy, long-lived Asia isn’t so healthy and long-lived. Both China and India are facing diabetes epidemics. In Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, and Thailand, diabetes is also increasing. The perfect storm – of sedentary living, processed junk food full of carbs and bad fats, and poor sleep – that has ravaged America and other industrialized nations for almost a century and led to a host of debilitating illnesses is beginning to descend upon Asia. Cooking oils have displaced traditional animal fats and sugar intake is rising. People walk less Yup. |
#10
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Heart poison
On Sep 1, 12:31*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:41:25 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: [...] So the claim is that what happened with margarine will happen with gluten free foods? *Time will tell. I'm not sure any claim is being made, Doug, other than in his own practice (and in various other studies) small LDL particles are a significant risk factor for CHD. More studies would need to be done to confirm any link between eating "gluten-free foods" and having small LDL particles. Of course claims are being made. *And there are plenty of people who question "WheatBelly"'s grounding in science, his use of studies, etc. There are plenty of people who question the low-carb way of eating, its grounding in science, etc. But you claim to eat low-carb anyway, right? Why is that? The issue was whether WheatBelly was making claims, not what I eat. He is making claims. I'm just suggesting that before people believe anything from WheatBelly, they do their own due diligence and see what some, including those with Celiac disease are saying. And given what YOU think is sound science, everyone should be especially skeptical of anything you claim here. And some of them are people with Celiac disease who say he's misrepresenting studies, ignoring what doesn't agree with what he claims, etc. That *is* funny, since you apparently ignore all the people who don't agree with LCHF, HPV, HIV, prions, etc. Admit it, you just ignore those things that don't conform with your preconceived notions. And that's dumb. You've done your version of what you consider to be a reasonable review of the science out there. Among the amazing things you've then concluded with your version of scientific analysis is: HIV is not the cause of AIDS. HIV is harmless AIDS is caused by poor diet and lack of sleep AIDS is caused by AIDS drugs No virus can cause cancer Prions don't exist So, I'll leave it for others to judge who's capable of doing a reasonable review of the facts and the science out there and who is ignoring what does not conform to their own preconceived conclusions, the truth be damned. IMO, the above proves you a loon and I would not trust your judgement on anything. So, I'm not going to waste my time listening to your claims about gluten. |
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