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Low carb high protein -- a misnomer?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Cubit
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Default Low carb high protein -- a misnomer?

My understanding is that the liver only makes carbs as needed. I'm not sure
what happens to extra protein in this context.

IMHO: Low Carb should be high fat, not high protein.

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
carbs/glucose.

If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
carbs, right?

So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not really
low carb.

Makes sense?

i



  #2  
Old September 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Cubit
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Default

My understanding is that the liver only makes carbs as needed. I'm not sure
what happens to extra protein in this context.

IMHO: Low Carb should be high fat, not high protein.

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
carbs/glucose.

If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
carbs, right?

So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not really
low carb.

Makes sense?

i



  #3  
Old September 9th, 2004, 06:15 PM
Roger Zoul
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Default


In my mind, a LC WOE means that carbs are controlled and held low enough to
curb appetite.

Given that, a LC WOE could be high protein or high fat, with the other being
mustly moderate. Most of us here practice a high fat version of LC as this
version is geared for the non athlete looking to lose body fat (speaking of
weight loss and thinking primarily in terms of Atkins). However, a high
protein version of LC might be useful for those who do lots of exercise, due
to the 58% conversion rate, which could then supply glucose to muscle tissue
(I'm making this up as I go, but I'm also just spilling what's in my
noodle).

Ignoramus26161 wrote:
|| Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
|| body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
|| carbs/glucose.
||
|| If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
|| carbs, right?
||
|| So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
|| protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not
|| really low carb.
||
|| Makes sense?
||
|| i


  #4  
Old September 9th, 2004, 06:15 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


In my mind, a LC WOE means that carbs are controlled and held low enough to
curb appetite.

Given that, a LC WOE could be high protein or high fat, with the other being
mustly moderate. Most of us here practice a high fat version of LC as this
version is geared for the non athlete looking to lose body fat (speaking of
weight loss and thinking primarily in terms of Atkins). However, a high
protein version of LC might be useful for those who do lots of exercise, due
to the 58% conversion rate, which could then supply glucose to muscle tissue
(I'm making this up as I go, but I'm also just spilling what's in my
noodle).

Ignoramus26161 wrote:
|| Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
|| body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
|| carbs/glucose.
||
|| If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
|| carbs, right?
||
|| So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
|| protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not
|| really low carb.
||
|| Makes sense?
||
|| i


  #5  
Old September 9th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Jennifer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Not exactly.

First of all, most of us are not eating that much more protein than before.

Here's an example: I went to lunch with friends yesterday. We all
ordered the same thing, a cheeseburger plate. I asked for no bun and
had a salad instead of the fries. Since we all had the same hamburger
patty... our protein content was the same... mine was a higher
"percentage" of my meal, but the grams were the same as my friends.

Also, protein does not convert to glucose the way you assume.

Of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat, about 58
grams of it becomes sugar.

But it's important to note that we are talking about the weight of the
protein itself, not the weight of the protein food.

A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains about
20 or 25 grams of protein.

The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual
carbohydrates, not 58 grams.

And only 58% of that 10 to 14g will convert to glucose, or about 6 - 8g
of carbs.

Jennifer


Ignoramus26161 wrote:

Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
carbs/glucose.

If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
carbs, right?

So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not really
low carb.

Makes sense?

i


  #6  
Old September 9th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jennifer wrote:
|| Not exactly.

Not exactly what? I confused by that.

||
|| First of all, most of us are not eating that much more protein than
|| before.

Okay, but it is possible to eat a lot more protein. Some people do so.

||
|| Here's an example: I went to lunch with friends yesterday. We all
|| ordered the same thing, a cheeseburger plate. I asked for no bun and
|| had a salad instead of the fries. Since we all had the same
|| hamburger patty... our protein content was the same... mine was a
|| higher "percentage" of my meal, but the grams were the same as my
|| friends.
||
|| Also, protein does not convert to glucose the way you assume.

I didn't see an assumption...

||
|| Of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat,
|| about 58 grams of it becomes sugar.
||
|| But it's important to note that we are talking about the weight of
|| the protein itself, not the weight of the protein food.
||
|| A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains
|| about 20 or 25 grams of protein.
||
|| The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual
|| carbohydrates, not 58 grams.

Thanks for the math and breakdown, but that point was not in question. I
guess what I'm wanting to know is what you mean by "Not exactly".

||
|| And only 58% of that 10 to 14g will convert to glucose, or about 6 -
|| 8g
|| of carbs.


But if I eat enough protein food to get 200 g of protein, than that is 116 g
of carbs just from protein-rich foods. That is certainly possible to do
since that only represents 800 kcals of food.

||
|| Jennifer
||
||
|| Ignoramus26161 wrote:
||
||| Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
||| body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
||| carbs/glucose.
|||
||| If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
||| carbs, right?
|||
||| So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
||| protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not
||| really low carb.
|||
||| Makes sense?
|||
||| i


  #7  
Old September 9th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jennifer wrote:
|| Not exactly.

Not exactly what? I confused by that.

||
|| First of all, most of us are not eating that much more protein than
|| before.

Okay, but it is possible to eat a lot more protein. Some people do so.

||
|| Here's an example: I went to lunch with friends yesterday. We all
|| ordered the same thing, a cheeseburger plate. I asked for no bun and
|| had a salad instead of the fries. Since we all had the same
|| hamburger patty... our protein content was the same... mine was a
|| higher "percentage" of my meal, but the grams were the same as my
|| friends.
||
|| Also, protein does not convert to glucose the way you assume.

I didn't see an assumption...

||
|| Of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat,
|| about 58 grams of it becomes sugar.
||
|| But it's important to note that we are talking about the weight of
|| the protein itself, not the weight of the protein food.
||
|| A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains
|| about 20 or 25 grams of protein.
||
|| The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual
|| carbohydrates, not 58 grams.

Thanks for the math and breakdown, but that point was not in question. I
guess what I'm wanting to know is what you mean by "Not exactly".

||
|| And only 58% of that 10 to 14g will convert to glucose, or about 6 -
|| 8g
|| of carbs.


But if I eat enough protein food to get 200 g of protein, than that is 116 g
of carbs just from protein-rich foods. That is certainly possible to do
since that only represents 800 kcals of food.

||
|| Jennifer
||
||
|| Ignoramus26161 wrote:
||
||| Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
||| body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
||| carbs/glucose.
|||
||| If so, then a high protein diet actually supplies us with a lot of
||| carbs, right?
|||
||| So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
||| protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not
||| really low carb.
|||
||| Makes sense?
|||
||| i


  #8  
Old September 9th, 2004, 07:29 PM
DJ Delorie
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Posts: n/a
Default


Ignoramus26161 writes:
Suppose that I do eat an excess of protein, say 300 grams of it. Say
that I use 100 grams for maintaining my body tissues, that leaves me
with 200*0.58 == 116 grams of sugar produced.


Other way around. 300 * 0.58 = 174g sugar, leaving you 126g protein
to maintain body tissues. However, your liver stops converting
protein when it has enough carbs, likely leaving more protein for body
tissues.

Since the liver stops converting when it has enough, I don't think
overdoing the protein can have the same effects as overdoing the
carbs, so IMHO it won't make it not LC.
  #9  
Old September 9th, 2004, 07:29 PM
DJ Delorie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Ignoramus26161 writes:
Suppose that I do eat an excess of protein, say 300 grams of it. Say
that I use 100 grams for maintaining my body tissues, that leaves me
with 200*0.58 == 116 grams of sugar produced.


Other way around. 300 * 0.58 = 174g sugar, leaving you 126g protein
to maintain body tissues. However, your liver stops converting
protein when it has enough carbs, likely leaving more protein for body
tissues.

Since the liver stops converting when it has enough, I don't think
overdoing the protein can have the same effects as overdoing the
carbs, so IMHO it won't make it not LC.
  #10  
Old September 9th, 2004, 07:46 PM
Jennifer
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Posts: n/a
Default



Roger Zoul wrote:

Jennifer wrote:
|| Not exactly.

Not exactly what? I confused by that.


The "not exactly" referred to the OP comment:

||| So, then, real low carbing should involve eating modest amount of
||| protein, and not a gross excess of protein. Otherwise it is not
||| really low carb.
|||
||| Makes sense?




||
|| First of all, most of us are not eating that much more protein than
|| before.

Okay, but it is possible to eat a lot more protein. Some people do so.


I didn't say it wasn't possible.


||
|| Here's an example: I went to lunch with friends yesterday. We all
|| ordered the same thing, a cheeseburger plate. I asked for no bun and
|| had a salad instead of the fries. Since we all had the same
|| hamburger patty... our protein content was the same... mine was a
|| higher "percentage" of my meal, but the grams were the same as my
|| friends.
||
|| Also, protein does not convert to glucose the way you assume.

I didn't see an assumption...


This was the assumption:

||| Here's what I am thinking about... If we eat more protein than our
||| body requires for repairing body tissues, the rest is converted to
||| carbs/glucose.


The "rest" is not coverted to carbs/glucose.


||
|| Of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat,
|| about 58 grams of it becomes sugar.
||
|| But it's important to note that we are talking about the weight of
|| the protein itself, not the weight of the protein food.
||
|| A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains
|| about 20 or 25 grams of protein.
||
|| The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual
|| carbohydrates, not 58 grams.

Thanks for the math and breakdown, but that point was not in question. I
guess what I'm wanting to know is what you mean by "Not exactly".

||
|| And only 58% of that 10 to 14g will convert to glucose, or about 6 -
|| 8g
|| of carbs.


But if I eat enough protein food to get 200 g of protein, than that is 116 g
of carbs just from protein-rich foods. That is certainly possible to do
since that only represents 800 kcals of foodj.


To eat 200g of protein you'd be eating approx. 800g - 1000g of actual
food... remember it's not the weight of the food, it's the grams of
protein in that food. Every 100g of a protein food is comprised of
approx. 20 -25g of protein.

And of course, yes it's possible to eat that much.

Jennifer

 




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