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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2Diabetes
On Apr 24, 11:47*am, Hakan wrote:
wrote: Alright, trying to answer two posts simultaneously. No, these Drs. provide information. Those thousands who adopted a new lifestyle did so based on their own desire to improve themselves. *It doesn't matter what you preach, history has shown that the desire for change comes from within, not without. *And in case you haven't noticed, the numbers who have made positive change with any program is just a drop in the bucket compared to what needs to happen. Yes, and despite all the well documented life threatening illnesses linked to obesity and all the efforts by not only those Drs, but the entire medical community, there are more obese Americans than ever before. * The drop in a bucket isn't even changing the direction. We're clearly losing the battle. *Do you realise how much more resources are put into advertising for products leading to more obesity? It would be interesting to compare the marketing budgets of the soda companies, car manufacturers and fast food companies to the money spent on educating people. There's your drop in the bucket right there. *If you don't believe me, please make an experiment and count how many times in a day through papers, media and road ads that you get a message urging you to for example drive and eat snack food as to how many times you get something on moving your body more and reducing your sugar intake. They even have a special cars section in many local papers. My point is that all the efforts of low carbohydrate advocates made a positive change to guide quite a few of us, but it drowns compared to what the "other side" hits the population with. Still they helped many of us including us three. None of that changes the fact that Americans are growing more obese. All the combined efforts, of which LC is but one small part, have not changed that. You can rail against advertising all you want. All of us here know people who are obese and have serious health problems because of it. They get out of breath walking, they look gross, their doctors have told them that their failing knees, heart problems, diabetes, etc require that they lose weight. I find it hard to believe that a McDonald's commercial is so overpowering that it overrides all of the above reasons to lose weight and it's the root cause of their problems. If advertising is so all poweful, then why doesn't the message that slim and fit makes you hot and sexy work? See any obese models lately? Oh please...I wasn't referring to low carb. I was referring to the notion of *getting* people off their asses and *making* them eat less. "Exercise more and eat less" has been the mantra for decades for those who are overweight.. Yet, it has barely made a dent in the problem. It's not that it won't work, it's that no matter how much you preach it, people won't do it as result of your (or my) preaching. Change comes from within, not without. Yes, I think it was clear what you meant. *I wrote "getting off your ass and eating less sugar". I was referring to low carb from the outset. This is probably a misunderstanding. Has there been any progress in this area over the ages? And not everyone who is overweight is a T2 and not all T2's are overweight. *Thus, the development of a cure for this disease really should have nothing to do this that. I conclude that you have no genuine reason to post in this group. You obviously haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. As someone who has been here for years, I can say that Roger has certainly been a genuine and valuable poster and very supportive of LC *I was out of line. Still, I don't see why it is worthwhile to spend your time in here if you have the belief that you can't convince anyone else to be a low carber. Support to people who want to go low carb is the name of the group. A discussion strictly among people who already belive is purely academic and doesn't change anything. Anyone who found low carb useful should want to inform others about it. . Hmmm. Read what you just wrote. "Support to people who want to go low carb is the name of the group." I agree with that and think Roger would too. Yet your position seems to be that we need to evangilize LC as the only solution to the obesity epidemic and diabetes and rail against any other solutions. Roger was on point, that the people who come here are very few. I don't know a single other person that I deal with in daily life that is on LC I didn't come here to change the world. I came here to share experiences and recipes, learn from others, and help answer questions from those with some interest in LC seeking advice. In your personal experience, how successful have you been in telling people that you are on LC and having them adopt it as their lifestyle? I can tell you in my experience over decades, talking to fat people in daily life about LC hasn't done a thing in reversing obesity. And having *a cure for diabetes is a good thing. Even bypass surgery is a good thing if it allows people to live and have a better life. For many it's the only option they can manage. For others, like me and several here, we were able to make LC work. *Others made just plain eating less and exercise work. Some make low fat work, other weight watchers. Hence, one size doesn't fit all. Yet, the numbers of still small among those who can make lasting changes. I'm amazed that Hakan would have such a jaundiced view of what to me was a truly amazing medical discovery that could have enormous potential beyond even diabetes. * No one would have ever guessed that simply bypassing a short piece of the beginning of the small intestine, ie the duodenum, would result in type 2 diabetes disappearing within a few days. * Beyond the immediate obvious result, as we begin to learn about why it happens, it could open up a whole new understanding of exactly how the disease occurs, what controls it, and what else is going on. *Alright. Strictly, it is on the off topic border and better belongs in the alt.support.diabetes group, but I won't make a point of that. You just did. I posted it here because I found it quite extraordinary and I know several of the regulars are diabetics and diabetes comes up here frequently in other threads. My point is that the number of people projected to get diabetes in the next decades is so startling that it is more important to look at the roots of the problem. I maintain that faulty genes is not the reason why America has more diabetes than many other nations and that diabetes is extremely rare in hunter gatherer societies. The modern American lifestyle carried by many is so incredibly far away from the body's needs. How does Hakan feel about lung cancer research? * Should we just ignore a cure or better treatments? * In many ways, it's similar to the type 2 diabetes issue. * Most people who get lung cancer are smokers, but there are plenty who get it who never smoked. * So, should we just **** all over research in that area too? *No. How about diverting some of the money spent on medical research to measures to reduce smoking? Money is being spent on both. Why do you have this issue of YOU knowing what the right amount is to spend on what? There's a score of different measures. Enforcing cars to become cleaner such that people don't get it through breathing bad air and improving collective transport and bike lanes so that more people get some exercise instead are just some ideas. Last time I checked, the emissions from automobiles has been reduced drastically over the last several decades. A tremendous amount of money has been spent on exactly that. Again, you're assuming the mix of spending is out of whack and somehow you know better how to appropriately spend it. Lacking even rudimentary evidence, you have no basis to conclude that taking money from medical research and putting into mass transit and bike lanes is a worthwhile tradeoff in improving anyone's health. I never liked this giving up attitude. Modern diseases are not a fact of life, but a consequence of active promotion of unhealthy lifestyles through our choice of infrastructure and market conditions. That is the heart of all this. OK, so we have a new medical discovery that has shocked all the experts. Type 2 diabetes disappears within days of a duodenum bypass. And your reaction is that you'd rather have people live and die with the complications of diabetes, while you spend money on advertising, infrastructure, and market conditions, instead of further medical research? No one here has advocated giving up. If some people are helped via LC, that's great. If some are helped via low fat, that's great. If some benefit through rigorous excercise, great. And if some benefit through medical research, development of new drugs and procedures, that's a good thing too. |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
First of all, I didn't mean that anyone is not welcome in the group. I have read the group since 2001 (had to change the user name because the free Usenet server suddenly banned access) and I know that Roger Zoul is a solid contributor. I apologise if it has been interpreted like that. What I mean is that the group seems not to have a purpose if we dont' believe that we can convince people to go low carb. All our internal discussions won't change anyone's health. I find it hard to believe that a McDonald's commercial is so overpowering that it overrides all of the above reasons to lose weight and it's the root cause of their problems. If advertising is so all poweful, then why doesn't the message that slim and fit makes you hot and sexy work? See any obese models lately? Do you think that McDonalds would spend a few billion dollars globally on advertising if it didn't pay off in added sales? Or, why do you think that Coca-Cola is the world's most consumed drink? Let me take another example. They inserted a fake Superbowl ad for a toothpaste that doesn't even exist one year, and lots of people had been asking for it store. What does that tell you? If the message on how to live healthy (diet, exercise et.c.) got a fraction of the information space that car companies, fast foods, soft drinks et.c. get, I'm sure that people would behave differently. Just seeing slim people won't help that much. I didn't come here to change the world. I came here to share experiences and recipes, learn from others, and help answer questions from those with some interest in LC seeking advice. In your personal experience, how successful have you been in telling people that you are on LC and having them adopt it as their lifestyle? I can tell you in my experience over decades, talking to fat people in daily life about LC hasn't done a thing in reversing obesity. I think that many have been helped in the right direction from the advice that they have gained in here. Money is being spent on both. Why do you have this issue of YOU knowing what the right amount is to spend on what? Last time I checked, the emissions from automobiles has been reduced drastically over the last several decades. A tremendous amount of money has been spent on exactly that. Again, you're assuming the mix of spending is out of whack and somehow you know better how to appropriately spend it. Lacking even rudimentary evidence, you have no basis to conclude that taking money from medical research and putting into mass transit and bike lanes is a worthwhile tradeoff in improving anyone's health. I voiced my opinion on what I thought should be changed. It doesn't mean that I know the right amount, but that it is my conviction that the things that I proclaimed would work. This is a layman's forum. Studies have showed that people taking something else than the car (bus, bike et.c.) on a daily basis have lower incidences of for example heart diseases. There is nothing revolutionary in what I put forth. No one here has advocated giving up. If some people are helped via LC, that's great. If some are helped via low fat, that's great. If some benefit through rigorous excercise, great. And if some benefit through medical research, development of new drugs and procedures, that's a good thing too. Alright, fair enough. -- Newsoffice.de - Die Onlinesoftware zum Lesen und Schreiben im Usenet Die Signatur läßt sich nach Belieben anpassen ;-) |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2Diabetes
On Apr 21, 1:01*pm, "
wrote: There was an interesting story on 60 Minutes last night about gastric bypass surgery. * Doctors noticed that patients that underwent the procedure that had type 2 diabetes no longer had any symptoms of diabetes following surgery. * *Most remarkable was that the effect occured withing a few days, so it was not linked to weight loss. *They had 8 people on the show, all of whom were type 2 and all said they were now normal, no longer taking medication, etc. Researchers looked into how this occurs and have concluded that the effect seems to be caused by bypassing the duodenum, ie a short part of the small intestine where it connects to the stomach, where some hormone is produced by food passing through. Some limited studies are underway abroad now to try the procedure on people not overweight, but with type 2. * It's certainly very interesting. * Doctors on the show were even using the term "cure". My blood work 3 months post WLS showed diabetes as GONE! My A1c came back 5.1 and 4.8. My insulin levels are normal as are my periods ( which I hardly ever had). My gastric bypass surgeon had told me if a person did this drastic surgical measure and they didnt have at least 100 excess pounds it would kill them. Guess that stands to reason why the FDA prohibits this procedure from being done on average weight diabetics. My hope is that someday soon they will have a breakthrough and a cure. I have a close friend who is slowly succumbing to the ravages of this horrible disease. She has chronic bowel trouble, neuropathy in her extremities, her eyes are failing. Her heart has even been damaged by neuropathy and she suffers incredible vertigo when standing up to walk. She has almost lost her foot from slow healing infections. She weighs less than 100lbs now. Her face is wrinkled and her hair looks like straw from being malnourished as everything she eats rockets through her without being absorbed. I feel so fortunate to finally be healthy Still doing good at 159.5 this am 3 years and almost 3 months since WLS Laureen http://www.flickr.com/photos/22396623@N08 |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT), Laureen
wrote: On Apr 21, 1:01*pm, " wrote: There was an interesting story on 60 Minutes last night about gastric bypass surgery. * Doctors noticed that patients that underwent the procedure that had type 2 diabetes no longer had any symptoms of diabetes following surgery. * *Most remarkable was that the effect occured withing a few days, so it was not linked to weight loss. *They had 8 people on the show, all of whom were type 2 and all said they were now normal, no longer taking medication, etc. Researchers looked into how this occurs and have concluded that the effect seems to be caused by bypassing the duodenum, ie a short part of the small intestine where it connects to the stomach, where some hormone is produced by food passing through. Some limited studies are underway abroad now to try the procedure on people not overweight, but with type 2. * It's certainly very interesting. * Doctors on the show were even using the term "cure". My blood work 3 months post WLS showed diabetes as GONE! My A1c came back 5.1 and 4.8. My insulin levels are normal as are my periods ( which I hardly ever had). My gastric bypass surgeon had told me if a person did this drastic surgical measure and they didnt have at least 100 excess pounds it would kill them. Guess that stands to reason why the FDA prohibits this procedure from being done on average weight diabetics. My hope is that someday soon they will have a breakthrough and a cure. I have a close friend who is slowly succumbing to the ravages of this horrible disease. She has chronic bowel trouble, neuropathy in her extremities, her eyes are failing. Her heart has even been damaged by neuropathy and she suffers incredible vertigo when standing up to walk. She has almost lost her foot from slow healing infections. She weighs less than 100lbs now. Her face is wrinkled and her hair looks like straw from being malnourished as everything she eats rockets through her without being absorbed. I feel so fortunate to finally be healthy Still doing good at 159.5 this am 3 years and almost 3 months since WLS Laureen http://www.flickr.com/photos/22396623@N08 Hi Laureen, nice to see your post. I still think about you, Larry and Alyvia and the great time we had when we went to the PNW to visit you. Glad that you're still doing so well. I've been back in "the groove" myself and am down to 216 pounds with a goal of 180, so I'm getting there! (I had no choice after having emergency angioplasty and 3 coronary artery stent insertions a few months ago). I hope to reach my goal this October; when it happens I'll post new pictures. In the meanwhile I'm feeling great. I've been mostly lurking with an occasional post here in ASDLC. --- Peter 270/216/180 |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2Diabetes
On Apr 26, 2:36*pm, Marengo wrote:
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT), Laureen wrote: On Apr 21, 1:01*pm, " wrote: There was an interesting story on 60 Minutes last night about gastric bypass surgery. * Doctors noticed that patients that underwent the procedure that had type 2 diabetes no longer had any symptoms of diabetes following surgery. * *Most remarkable was that the effect occured withing a few days, so it was not linked to weight loss. *They had 8 people on the show, all of whom were type 2 and all said they were now normal, no longer taking medication, etc. Researchers looked into how this occurs and have concluded that the effect seems to be caused by bypassing the duodenum, ie a short part of the small intestine where it connects to the stomach, where some hormone is produced by food passing through. Some limited studies are underway abroad now to try the procedure on people not overweight, but with type 2. * It's certainly very interesting. * Doctors on the show were even using the term "cure". My blood work 3 months post WLS showed diabetes as GONE! My A1c came back 5.1 and 4.8. My insulin levels are normal as are my periods ( which I hardly ever had). My gastric bypass surgeon had told me if a person did this drastic surgical measure and they didnt have at least 100 excess pounds it would kill them. Guess that stands to reason why the FDA prohibits this procedure from being done on average weight diabetics. My hope is that someday soon they will have a breakthrough and a cure. I have a close friend who is slowly succumbing to the ravages of this horrible disease. She has chronic bowel trouble, neuropathy in her extremities, her eyes are failing. Her heart has even been damaged by neuropathy and she suffers incredible vertigo when standing up to walk. She has almost lost her foot from slow healing infections. She weighs less than 100lbs now. Her face is wrinkled and her hair looks like straw from being malnourished as everything she eats rockets through her without being absorbed. I feel so fortunate to finally be healthy Still doing good at 159.5 this am 3 years and almost 3 months since WLS Laureen http://www.flickr.com/photos/22396623@N08 Hi Laureen, nice to see your post. *I still think about you, Larry and Alyvia and the great time we had when we went to the PNW to visit you. Glad that you're still doing so well. * I've been back in "the groove" myself and am down to 216 pounds with a goal of 180, so I'm getting there! (I had no choice after having emergency angioplasty and 3 coronary artery stent insertions a few months ago). * I hope to reach my goal this October; when it happens I'll post new pictures. *In the meanwhile I'm feeling great. * I've been mostly lurking with an occasional post here in ASDLC. --- Peter 270/216/180- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi Peter, We have lost touch haven't we? Life has been busy and tragic the last 8 months. My tool was put to the test. My father fell ill last June and I insisted he retire and move here. I offered my home to him, moved all his belongings here, put them in storage, and nursed him back to health for the idea of when he felt better he would get his own place. He got his own place in November.It was nice to see him gear up and ride his Harley and not have a care in the world for a brief time. He died suddenly last month. I am utterly and truly devastated. I cant believe this has happened. I have been on Ativan and Ambien. I have lost one of my best friends. My Dad raised me with the help of both of my grandmothers most of my life! He was only 66! He had lovely long white hair. After he passed I clipped a good amount and braided it. I HAD to sleep with it wound around my fingers for a while SIGH! I wanna cry again Laureen |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2Diabetes
Laureen wrote:
On Apr 26, 2:36 pm, Marengo wrote: On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT), Laureen He died suddenly last month. I am utterly and truly devastated. I cant believe this has happened. I have been on Ativan and Ambien. I have lost one of my best friends. My Dad raised me with the help of both of my grandmothers most of my life! He was only 66! He had lovely long white hair. After he passed I clipped a good amount and braided it. I HAD to sleep with it wound around my fingers for a while SIGH! I wanna cry again Laureen So sorry to hear about your lost. Hope you can take some comfort in being able to spend more time with him during his last months. -- Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
Then I wasn't clear enough, because I feel that convincing others to eat the way we eat is a totally inappropriate goal for a support group. I think that you were quite clear. My point is we will get this role whether we want it or not when a complete newbie asks a question like "is low-carb safe?" We can't expect everyone who comes here to be hooked on LC at their first post. Some will be unsure about whether to stay on it, and what we write or fail to write will be a factor in their decision. Did you make up your mind just by reading Atkins books? To me it was a process, which was very much aided by seeing how many else were doing it through online communities and getting some answers to my initial questions. I don't see anything wrong in doing that. -- Newsoffice.de - Die Onlinesoftware zum Lesen und Schreiben im Usenet Die Signatur läßt sich nach Belieben anpassen ;-) |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
Laureen wrote in message ... Hi Peter, We have lost touch haven't we? Life has been busy and tragic the last 8 months. My tool was put to the test. My father fell ill last June and I insisted he retire and move here. I offered my home to him, moved all his belongings here, put them in storage, and nursed him back to health for the idea of when he felt better he would get his own place. He got his own place in November.It was nice to see him gear up and ride his Harley and not have a care in the world for a brief time. He died suddenly last month. I am utterly and truly devastated. I cant believe this has happened. I have been on Ativan and Ambien. I have lost one of my best friends. My Dad raised me with the help of both of my grandmothers most of my life! He was only 66! He had lovely long white hair. After he passed I clipped a good amount and braided it. I HAD to sleep with it wound around my fingers for a while SIGH! I wanna cry again Laureen ******** My sympathies Laureen. Take care of yourself during this sad time. :-( cheri |
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60 Minutes Story on Gastric Bypass and elimination on Type 2 Diabetes
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:22:47 +0200, Hakan wrote:
Did you make up your mind just by reading Atkins books? I did. --- Peter 270/216/180 |
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