Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote in
message news:mKzrb.10339$jy.4609@clgrps13...

"revek" wrote in message
...
"Patricia Heil" wrote in message
...
I recently posted here that one of my concerns with Atkins is
that 68% of those who tried it, in one clinical study, wound up
constipated.

And how long was this study? Did they ever get past the first
phase?
That is kind of important, as you move past induction, which is
supposed to last 2 weeks only, you are supposed to begin eating
more
vegetables, and less of other things. Two weeks is not long
enough to
give you long term problems, and any study that focuses on the
begining stage as if it is the whole diet is worthless as a source
of
information.



and i have read that some people's initial phase lasts longer based
on how
much they want or need to loose. Is that true?

They may base it on those criteria, but if they did, they would be
doing Atkins incorrectly. Induction is more than just limiting
yourself to 20 carbs per day, it's also restricting certain foods
known to cause problems in some people. (The induction phase is the
first part of an elimination diet to help find food allergies and food
triggers-- the things that make you binge, as well as 'kick starting'
weight loss for motivational purposes). It's also about teaching
people who don't eat healthy or know much about portion control or how
to listen to their bodies (or they wouldn't have gotten fat, in most
cases) almost effortlessly.

Once past induction, you may stay at 20 grams if you feel comfortable
there but you stop eating from the restricted induction list only.
Staying on the induction food list or restricting your carbs to
induction levels instead of some other number in no way helps you lose
faster or any more, even though many people assume it does.


That is bad for long term health. Removing fiber
from the diet demonstrably leads to colo-rectal cancer, the
third leading cancer killer behind lung cancer and prostate
cancer,
and therefore the #2 preventable killer cancer.


that is a very good point. i am sure that a proponent of the diet
could
bring up something to debate you on this, but i havent seen anything
of that
sort yet.

Atkins goes out of it's way to insist on lots of fiber-- and in
the
two week beiginning phase if you do not eat enough fiberous
vegetables, you are supposed to ease the *temporary* situation
with
fiber supplements.



So does that prevent the above?

Studies suggest that fiber helps reduce the occurence of colon-rectal
cancer. If Atkins done correctly means lots of fiber, then that would
suggest that Atkins could be a viable strategy against colon-rectal
cancer.

Studies also suggest that glucose is cancer's best friend. Sugars and
starches convert to glucose. Reducing as much as possible sugars and
starches, while increasing fiber and vitamins through high nutrient
vegetables (ala Akins) would seem to be a sensible thing to do, if you
worry about such things.

Fat and protien also have their debatable points. But since that
covers all the calorie sources available to humans, we'll just have to
make do with what we have.

revek (nothing is all black or all white in the world of
nutrition.... except transfats LOL)


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Couldn't he just remove the refined carbs in his diet and slowly back
into it since the actual induction period is way to hard on him??

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote in message
news:ONzrb.10340$jy.4331@clgrps13...

"JC Der Koenig" wrote in message
...
Look at your BMI. At 5'6" and 190, you are over 30, which is
categorized as obese.



And if he is at 12% bodyfat? Still obese?

Idiot.



Like I said, I do not have a ton of excess flab, and alot of it is muscle.
so I don't put alot into what a persons BMI index is unless they are
really
noticeably fat.

I don't have a double chin, and my arms, legs, and neck look slim. the
weight I want to loose is around my stomach and sides, to give you an
idea.



I'm the one that wrote that you're probably NOT obese. Low carbing (not
neccessarily Atkins) is a proven winner in dropping bodyfat% if you engage
in a consistent exercise program. Lifting heavy things would be preferred
over cardio stuff. If you feel that you must do cardio, look into HIIT.

In article , Wayne S. Hill wrote:
Vegetarian wrote:

JC Der Koenig wrote:
Look at your BMI. At 5'6" and 190, you are over 30, which
is categorized as obese.

And if he is at 12% bodyfat? Still obese?

Idiot.

I highly doubt that having this pile of useless, worthless
muscles is doing anything good for his health. Having a BMI
of 32 is bad. Being fat at BMI 32 is horrible, being
muscular at BMI 32 is not that great either.

References? Can you point to any peer-reviewed studies that
indicate that "excess" muscle mass raises health risk? BMI is
used as a simple-minded proxy for BF% because,

As I've already pointed out, it's actually a proxy for mortality,
or at least that's where the concept originated.

in the broad
cross-section of society, people with high BMI have high BF.
It is an unwarranted leap to conclude that high BMI with low
BF% causes health risk.

There are two big leaps in here. One is the assumption that a
link between mortality and BMI exists independent of BF%, the
other is that such a link is causal.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" wrote in
news:Wbhrb.6788$jy.3697@clgrps13:

Oh man... here I am again considering trying the Atkins diet.

Also consider the one known as "the caveman diet". The gist of them
both is to get your body burning protein for energy instead of
carbohydrates. Protein produces energy more slowly so less of it
gets stored as fat.

Once your metabolism is adjusted you can then start eating carbohydrates
again, so long as you don't go overboard and switch back to a carbohydreate-
based metabolism.

With any diet that has an author behind it, don't try to follow the exact
plan laid out by the author. Everyone is different. If someone related
to the author stands to gain from your diet, or if someone has built a
business around the diet plan, look for the core wisdom of the diet and apply
it your own way - don't buy the author's friend's products.

Can I drink diet soda while on Atkins? For some reason, Atkins himself
seems to act as if aspartame is the devil, and will impede your weight
loss.

I don't know about impeding weight loss, but aspartame is suspect anyway.
Some people become severely addicted to it, and it can cause insulin-related
problems. Left-handed sugars trick your body into thinking it's about to
get a load of glucose, and then it fails to deliver. You end up with
tired insulin producers and extra insulin floating around with nothing
to do. This is a bad thing.

If you find yourself drinking too much diet pop or putting 30 packets of
Sweet'n'Low on your yogurt, you're probably addicted to aspartame.

How much back to "normal" (breads and other carbs) will I get back to
after I have lost my initial weight? I have a goal to have flat abs, to
be honest, as well as feel more energetic and the like.

I can't really say, but I'll share my experience with the Atkins/Caveman
diet.

I'm a bit on the large side - probably about 50 pounds over my ideal weight,
and it's all blubber. My lifestyle doesn't allow me much time for exercise
and I'm not willing to change that. As for other diets, they don't work for
me; I won't eat things with left-handed sugars in because I think it's
unhealty. I also generally don't like the taste of "diet" foods, and
caloric reduction doesn't work anyway. I actually don't eat too much - I
just eat the wrong things.

I first tried eating high protein/low carb earlier this year. I tried it for
one month. I lost about ten pounds and it stayed off for about six months
after I returned to my normal diet. This is the biggest success I have ever
had, and I intend to give it a better, longer try again soon.

I had trouble sticking to it for a few reasons. One is that I'm a lousy cook
and I re-introduced the no-no foods just to get some variety back. Another is
that had cravings for favorite foods like bread and potatos. They weren't
bad cravings - nothing like being on a caloric reduction diet - but I gave
in because of the third reason: I'm lazy. Cooking a good meal is a lot of
work compared to slapping a sandwich together.

I guess I need to hire a cook.

One other thing about meat - yes, it's expensive, so spend a little more and
get the best. Look for the healthiest meat - free-range chicken, organ-free
ground beef etc. I eat a lot of ground beef, and I have to say I've noticed
that the organ-free beef tastes better. Up with cow and chicken!

Good luck!

"JC Der Koenig" wrote in message
m...

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote in message
news:ONzrb.10340$jy.4331@clgrps13...

"JC Der Koenig" wrote in message
...
Look at your BMI. At 5'6" and 190, you are over 30, which is
categorized as obese.



And if he is at 12% bodyfat? Still obese?

Idiot.



Like I said, I do not have a ton of excess flab, and alot of it is
muscle.
so I don't put alot into what a persons BMI index is unless they are
really
noticeably fat.

I don't have a double chin, and my arms, legs, and neck look slim. the
weight I want to loose is around my stomach and sides, to give you an
idea.



I'm the one that wrote that you're probably NOT obese. Low carbing (not
neccessarily Atkins) is a proven winner in dropping bodyfat% if you engage
in a consistent exercise program. Lifting heavy things would be preferred
over cardio stuff. If you feel that you must do cardio, look into HIIT.



Sorry, I didn't meant to sound combative. I appreciate what you said.
I can work out, do weights. That isn't a problem. I have noticed in the past
that my muscles react very well to a workout, and within a few weeks I see a
difference, the problem was before that I had tried a low fat low calorie
diet, with LOTS of cardio, which left me constantly hungry and needing more
and more cardio to keep up with any sort of weight loss.
I believe that muscle burns fat, and that gaining a reasonable amount of
well toned muscle will eventually speed up metabolism to a certain degree (I
am not being unrealistic though, I have a medium paced metabolism), and that
in time I can kick some of this fat off.

I have a question.
In the first phase of Atkins, you are stuck at less than 30 grams of carbs a
day.
A low carb diet is what the Suzanne sommers diet is based around, and I hear
it really works, so how many carbs is "low carb".
Obviously you want to cut out the empty carbs like glucose-fructose and
white sugars, and replace them with complete complex sugars, but how many
carbs do you cut out?

Thanks for the reply to this thread btw. you are being helpful, while so
many are just being goofy.

"revek" wrote in message
...

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote in
message news:mKzrb.10339$jy.4609@clgrps13...

"revek" wrote in message
...
"Patricia Heil" wrote in message
...
I recently posted here that one of my concerns with Atkins is
that 68% of those who tried it, in one clinical study, wound up
constipated.

And how long was this study? Did they ever get past the first
phase?
That is kind of important, as you move past induction, which is
supposed to last 2 weeks only, you are supposed to begin eating
more
vegetables, and less of other things. Two weeks is not long
enough to
give you long term problems, and any study that focuses on the
begining stage as if it is the whole diet is worthless as a source
of
information.



and i have read that some people's initial phase lasts longer based
on how
much they want or need to loose. Is that true?

They may base it on those criteria, but if they did, they would be
doing Atkins incorrectly. Induction is more than just limiting
yourself to 20 carbs per day, it's also restricting certain foods
known to cause problems in some people. (The induction phase is the
first part of an elimination diet to help find food allergies and food
triggers-- the things that make you binge, as well as 'kick starting'
weight loss for motivational purposes). It's also about teaching
people who don't eat healthy or know much about portion control or how
to listen to their bodies (or they wouldn't have gotten fat, in most
cases) almost effortlessly.

Once past induction, you may stay at 20 grams if you feel comfortable
there but you stop eating from the restricted induction list only.
Staying on the induction food list or restricting your carbs to
induction levels instead of some other number in no way helps you lose
faster or any more, even though many people assume it does.


That is bad for long term health. Removing fiber
from the diet demonstrably leads to colo-rectal cancer, the
third leading cancer killer behind lung cancer and prostate
cancer,
and therefore the #2 preventable killer cancer.


that is a very good point. i am sure that a proponent of the diet
could
bring up something to debate you on this, but i havent seen anything
of that
sort yet.

Atkins goes out of it's way to insist on lots of fiber-- and in
the
two week beiginning phase if you do not eat enough fiberous
vegetables, you are supposed to ease the *temporary* situation
with
fiber supplements.



So does that prevent the above?

Studies suggest that fiber helps reduce the occurence of colon-rectal
cancer. If Atkins done correctly means lots of fiber, then that would
suggest that Atkins could be a viable strategy against colon-rectal
cancer.

Studies also suggest that glucose is cancer's best friend. Sugars and
starches convert to glucose. Reducing as much as possible sugars and
starches, while increasing fiber and vitamins through high nutrient
vegetables (ala Akins) would seem to be a sensible thing to do, if you
worry about such things.

Fat and protien also have their debatable points. But since that
covers all the calorie sources available to humans, we'll just have to
make do with what we have.

revek (nothing is all black or all white in the world of
nutrition.... except transfats LOL)




Awesome. Thank you!
I am getting alot out of this.
One of the things is that I may not have to cut out ALL carbs, just the
white fours, white sugars, glucose/fructose, and then be careful of what I
eat.

Atkins sounds ideal, and I know that even on Atkins you need to exercise
(lots of people think that Atkins is just some magical diet idea, and it
isn't), however I don't like the idea of no carbs, based on how I felt
before.

I may give it another shot, but them more I read about entering ketosis, the
more it seems as if its a hard change on the body.
I will give it some more thought based on what I read on the net and in this
thread.

IF I do go on Atkins again, I will do it right, and follow it pretty much
exactly.

"Perple Gyrl" wrote in news:17adnW7G8OlRJjCiRVn-
:

Atkins has been around for over 20 years.... it isn't a new way of
eating....

To go a step further, eating lots of breads processed foods is actually
the new way of eating. Grains have only recently become part of the human
diet, and highly refined foods (and refined sugars) even more recently than
that.

Our biology hasn't had a chance to catch up - it's still wired for meat,
leaves, fruits and vegetables. So you could say that Atkins and similar
diets are more of a return to what we're adapted to eat.

"Qilt Kitty" wrote in message
...
Couldn't he just remove the refined carbs in his diet and slowly back
into it since the actual induction period is way to hard on him??



Yeah, that is what I am starting to read from this thread.
As I said, the induction phase was hard on my PHYSICALLY. some people claim
that its a lack of discipline that keeps many away, but for me it was "I
think I am going to pass out, my hands are shaking" sort of problem.

revek wrote:

"JC Der Koenig" wrote in message
m...

Gay as in happy. Try to think outside the box you've built for
yourself.

Also gay as in extremely lame, as the teenagers in this part of the
country use the term. Language mutates.

language is a virus from outer space. -- william s. burroughs