here I go again

jas wrote:
In article , lid
says...

In article , jas wrote:

I am a few hours away from having a nice calorie heavy chinese meal that
I plan to be my last real indulgence food before I start eating
healthily for quite some time to come to lose weight.

How about eating half of that chinese meal and saving another half for
lunch tomorrow.


how about savouring and enjoying that planned last indulgence and
remember that control is not how I got to the weight I am

Jas, there are warning signs all over this post. I don't know if you
can listen to this yet, but you really need to change your mind about
food. Exactly WHY did you get fat? Don't answer, "eating too much",
tell me WHY you ate too much. What was in it for you? If you're going
to stop being fat you're going to have to get that need met elsewhere.
Do you have a plan for doing that?

I love chinese food, too. But I love my body more. I think you've got
the ass-backwards mindset that "I'll be nice to myself and let myself
have some crappy food." Actually, it should be the reverse: you should
be nice to yourself and treat your body in line with your values and
goals. If you're nice to yourself you won't be under-cutting yourself.

This gets back to the part where you change your mind. Do you want to
live like a slender person or live like a fat person? It's really up to
you. Think hard about this, because living like a slender person is
going to require that you change a LOT of things, and willpower along
won't do it. You're going to have to CHOOSE it.

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

Okay, so now I've been all negative at you, so here's the part where I
say something helpful.

Get the book "Fattitudes" by Willard and read it and do some of the
exercises in it. It explores the reasons you got fat and looks the
upside straight in the eye so that you can see what will sabotage you
and help you change your thinking about food and exercise.

I have lost 50 lbs and kept the loss loss for a year, but, if I ate
breakfast and lunch like you, I would not be able to stick to dieting.

to me those are much healthier than what I would have had and personally
they are healthy choices so what is the problem with them?

Because they are so different from what you're used to. You have to
find a food program that works on many levels. A good place to start is
to find out what your NORMAL diet is like and then start to tweak it.
Log your food at www.fitday.com for a few days BEFORE you start to diet.
See how many portions that is, see how many calories that is, see how
the macronutrient load breaks down.

Then shave off 500 to 1000 calories off a day. BE CAREFUL NOT TO EAT
TOO LITTLE! As a 350 pound man I don't know what your minimum calorie
level is. We generally give a rule of thumb for men not to drop below
10x their weight in calories. But my guess is that you should not in
any circumstances drop below 10x your goal weight. So if you want to
weigh 180 then do not every have a day where you eat less than 1800
calories. Honestly, I'd start you out at about 2400 calories and see
how you do at that level.

These calories should be parcelled out through-out the day. I like to
have three meals and two snacks, so maybe 500 calories at breakfast, 600
calories at lunch, 700 calories at dinner and two 300 calorie snacks.

This is a LOT of food. You should never be hungry, never have an urge
to snack, never feel low on energy. You should be able to find foods
you like to eat.

It's a good idea to try to make sure that you get some protein in every
meal. Don't just have muesli for breakfast, have an egg with it, or
maybe some protein powder mixed in with it, or maybe some fat-free
cottage cheese. You've got 500 calories to spend, so spend them!

It takes some time to come up with an eating plan, but planning really
is crucial. I find that crappy carbs appear magically whenever I'm
hungry but healthy carbs combined with protein only show up if I've
planned for them.

That's why you need to plan on eating at regular intervals. Don't ever
try to go more than 4 waking hours without some sort of meal or snack.

FF milk, eh ... whose post did you read? - and a sandwich with fruit for
lunch is much less than id eat now and a whole host healthier so whats
the problem with those choices?

Do you see yet what the problem is? Not enough calories. Don't set
yourself up for failure. Set yourself up to learn to eat like a healthy
person. A healthy man does not eat 1200 calories a day.

Try a diet that makes for a relatively small calorie deficit, and
provides you with healthy vitamins, phytonutriends, and enough fats.

Your exercise plans are also good... Provided that your weight is not
an impediment.


It is an impediment which is why I will only be walking. swimming is
weight bearing and I generally swim half a mile to a mile each session -
not all fat folk are unfit you know.

I find that it's easiest to tackle the steps at different times. Maybe
you should keep exercise what you're used to for now and just work on
changing your eating habits. I did it in reverse order. Here are the
steps, by the way:

1. Fix your head
2. Eat less
3. Exercise more
4. Repeat
5. Forever.

Can you try, instead of crash dieting, and extreme dieting etc, eat a
good amount of calories, better food, and lose slowly? There is no
sense of being in a hurry to lose weight, you will have to be on one
sort of diet or another, for the rest of your life, if you want to
keep weight off.

crash dieting? i wont be crash dieting at all ... i'll be eating
sensibly and replacing all my poor choices with much healthier ones that
should over time replace my poor eating habits - again, whose post did
you read .... ...?

I agree with Ig: you were describing crash dieting. Neither your
breakfast nor your lunch had enough calories.

This place is full of criticism, especially for newbies. I hope you
realize that it is well-intentioned. We've got stuff to teach you.
Some people get all defensive and snort that they already KNOW how to
lose weight... but our edge is that we know how to lose LOTS of fat and
keep it off. So put on your asbestos panties and stick around!

Dally
244/175/168

jas wrote:
In article , lid
says...

In article , jas wrote:

I am a few hours away from having a nice calorie heavy chinese meal that
I plan to be my last real indulgence food before I start eating
healthily for quite some time to come to lose weight.

How about eating half of that chinese meal and saving another half for
lunch tomorrow.


how about savouring and enjoying that planned last indulgence and
remember that control is not how I got to the weight I am

Jas, there are warning signs all over this post. I don't know if you
can listen to this yet, but you really need to change your mind about
food. Exactly WHY did you get fat? Don't answer, "eating too much",
tell me WHY you ate too much. What was in it for you? If you're going
to stop being fat you're going to have to get that need met elsewhere.
Do you have a plan for doing that?

I love chinese food, too. But I love my body more. I think you've got
the ass-backwards mindset that "I'll be nice to myself and let myself
have some crappy food." Actually, it should be the reverse: you should
be nice to yourself and treat your body in line with your values and
goals. If you're nice to yourself you won't be under-cutting yourself.

This gets back to the part where you change your mind. Do you want to
live like a slender person or live like a fat person? It's really up to
you. Think hard about this, because living like a slender person is
going to require that you change a LOT of things, and willpower along
won't do it. You're going to have to CHOOSE it.

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

Okay, so now I've been all negative at you, so here's the part where I
say something helpful.

Get the book "Fattitudes" by Willard and read it and do some of the
exercises in it. It explores the reasons you got fat and looks the
upside straight in the eye so that you can see what will sabotage you
and help you change your thinking about food and exercise.

I have lost 50 lbs and kept the loss loss for a year, but, if I ate
breakfast and lunch like you, I would not be able to stick to dieting.

to me those are much healthier than what I would have had and personally
they are healthy choices so what is the problem with them?

Because they are so different from what you're used to. You have to
find a food program that works on many levels. A good place to start is
to find out what your NORMAL diet is like and then start to tweak it.
Log your food at www.fitday.com for a few days BEFORE you start to diet.
See how many portions that is, see how many calories that is, see how
the macronutrient load breaks down.

Then shave off 500 to 1000 calories off a day. BE CAREFUL NOT TO EAT
TOO LITTLE! As a 350 pound man I don't know what your minimum calorie
level is. We generally give a rule of thumb for men not to drop below
10x their weight in calories. But my guess is that you should not in
any circumstances drop below 10x your goal weight. So if you want to
weigh 180 then do not every have a day where you eat less than 1800
calories. Honestly, I'd start you out at about 2400 calories and see
how you do at that level.

These calories should be parcelled out through-out the day. I like to
have three meals and two snacks, so maybe 500 calories at breakfast, 600
calories at lunch, 700 calories at dinner and two 300 calorie snacks.

This is a LOT of food. You should never be hungry, never have an urge
to snack, never feel low on energy. You should be able to find foods
you like to eat.

It's a good idea to try to make sure that you get some protein in every
meal. Don't just have muesli for breakfast, have an egg with it, or
maybe some protein powder mixed in with it, or maybe some fat-free
cottage cheese. You've got 500 calories to spend, so spend them!

It takes some time to come up with an eating plan, but planning really
is crucial. I find that crappy carbs appear magically whenever I'm
hungry but healthy carbs combined with protein only show up if I've
planned for them.

That's why you need to plan on eating at regular intervals. Don't ever
try to go more than 4 waking hours without some sort of meal or snack.

FF milk, eh ... whose post did you read? - and a sandwich with fruit for
lunch is much less than id eat now and a whole host healthier so whats
the problem with those choices?

Do you see yet what the problem is? Not enough calories. Don't set
yourself up for failure. Set yourself up to learn to eat like a healthy
person. A healthy man does not eat 1200 calories a day.

Try a diet that makes for a relatively small calorie deficit, and
provides you with healthy vitamins, phytonutriends, and enough fats.

Your exercise plans are also good... Provided that your weight is not
an impediment.


It is an impediment which is why I will only be walking. swimming is
weight bearing and I generally swim half a mile to a mile each session -
not all fat folk are unfit you know.

I find that it's easiest to tackle the steps at different times. Maybe
you should keep exercise what you're used to for now and just work on
changing your eating habits. I did it in reverse order. Here are the
steps, by the way:

1. Fix your head
2. Eat less
3. Exercise more
4. Repeat
5. Forever.

Can you try, instead of crash dieting, and extreme dieting etc, eat a
good amount of calories, better food, and lose slowly? There is no
sense of being in a hurry to lose weight, you will have to be on one
sort of diet or another, for the rest of your life, if you want to
keep weight off.

crash dieting? i wont be crash dieting at all ... i'll be eating
sensibly and replacing all my poor choices with much healthier ones that
should over time replace my poor eating habits - again, whose post did
you read .... ...?

I agree with Ig: you were describing crash dieting. Neither your
breakfast nor your lunch had enough calories.

This place is full of criticism, especially for newbies. I hope you
realize that it is well-intentioned. We've got stuff to teach you.
Some people get all defensive and snort that they already KNOW how to
lose weight... but our edge is that we know how to lose LOTS of fat and
keep it off. So put on your asbestos panties and stick around!

Dally
244/175/168

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris
262/140/ (145-150)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris
262/140/ (145-150)

Chris Braun wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:


Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.


I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris
262/140/ (145-150)

LOL, okay, the objection is noted. :-)

Dally

Chris Braun wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:


Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.


I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris
262/140/ (145-150)

LOL, okay, the objection is noted. :-)

Dally

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 02:23:20 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris, I suppose it gives me some comfort to hear this from you - at
least you're human too)

For me, bingeing has a strong element of the "condemned man's last
feast" which of course implies that I see myself as about to re-enter
some kind of prison when I get back on track, even though I take care
to have no forbidden foods on my WOE. Of course, it's a lot more
complex than that, but it's all part of the problem for me, and is all
about mindset rather than hunger or eating.

janice
233/179/133

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 02:23:20 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:38:34 -0400, Dally wrote:

Generally speaking, when I see people going out for one last binge,
well, I see someone who is choosing binging but just going to put it
aside for a little while and use willpower. Not a good plan.

I dunno. The day before I began my weight loss journey (July 7, 2002)
I ate a package of cookies and 3 candy bars (and other food too, no
doubt) :-). It didn't seem to be an indicator of diet failure for me.

Chris, I suppose it gives me some comfort to hear this from you - at
least you're human too)

For me, bingeing has a strong element of the "condemned man's last
feast" which of course implies that I see myself as about to re-enter
some kind of prison when I get back on track, even though I take care
to have no forbidden foods on my WOE. Of course, it's a lot more
complex than that, but it's all part of the problem for me, and is all
about mindset rather than hunger or eating.

janice
233/179/133

"jas" wrote in message
. ..
I am a few hours away from having a nice calorie heavy chinese meal that
I plan to be my last real indulgence food before I start eating
healthily for quite some time to come to lose weight.

My own problem with giving up diets is down to both poor planning and
being a bone idle lazy sod, oh and just being greedy and giving in to my
cravings for crap food. So far, I have planned my breakfast and lunch
meals and will sit down this weekend and plan evening meals, snacks,
etc.

Breakfast will just be a bowl of bite sized shreddies or muesli and
skimmed milk, with a piece of fruit.

Lunch will be a basic wholegrain sandwich with fruit.

I havent yet thought up evening meals so will be looking for good basic
sugestions as im no cook and hate food preperation.

I will be doing walking and swimming for exercise for starters.

Also, even though I dont drink a lot of alchohol anyway I am giving it
up completely for the first few months to get me started and will be
volunteer to be the designated 'driver' so I have no choice once out
anyway.

I will also suppliment my sugar free pepsi max addiction with a lot of
filtered ice cold water too.

I will go and weigh myself tonight at a local Tesco's store that has one
of these advanced weight machines, (ill post the results later on when
im back - im expecting somewhere near the 350 pounds mark prviding the
machine can cope!) and will weigh myself a couple times per month to
keep track of progress.

have already had doctor check up a few months back who wholeheartedly
agreed on my plans for losing weight and ive only now pulled myself
together enough to attempt the initial push.

In contrary to the posts you've gotten, here's one that agrees with you. I
think your breakfast is fine and filling. It's what I usually have. It's
also in the 300 to 400 calorie range. It's also considered a normal portion
(the box suggests 3/4 to 1 cup usually with 1/2 cup milk). If you want to
bump up the calories, have a glass of orange juice as well. Lunch is also
good. It's again in the 300 - 400 range depending what you put on it. You
are probably going to require more calories so if you add some nice deli
meats and cheese on there (depends if you need to watch cholesterol) you'll
probably bump that sandwich up to more like 400 - 500. Dinner should be
between 500 and 700 calories and you'll have yourself a 2000 calorie day on
the high end (you can add snacks to make it to 2400) or 1500 on the low end
(and bump it up to 2000 with snacks.

The whole point that I'm agreeing with you on is that right now you need to
learn to eat better foods. Foods that give you more than salt and fat.
Once you get all the crap out of your system then you can move on to
tweaking. That's what I did and I've lost almost 40lbs. Now I'm into
tweaking and I'm starting by joining a gym so I can get my regular exercise
in. I've also stepped out of my normal eating patterns for the summer by
snacking between meals, during meals, after meals., by allowing myself
sugary drinks like ice tea, by allowing myself sweet treats for desserts and
while visiting. I need to get back to basics too, plus exercise.

Good luck to you and post on how you're doing!


--
Cp
267/229/150

"You don't want to lose what you've worked for"

In contrary to the posts you've gotten, here's one that agrees with you.

right, ive done the first weigh in before i started yesterday and I was
spot on, I weigh 350 pounds or 25 stone to us ole brits!

I started eating breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday and will continue
on with that to get more regular meals. Take today for example:-

Breakfast: 1 Bowl Muesli and Milk - Dont know cals but it was a heaped
bowl and i'll get some scales this weekend so I can weigh the stuff and
try and get the right amount and measure the milk, etc. The muesli was
Alpen 'No added sugar' type and I added some splenda granules to sweeten
it up a bit.

Lunch: 2 * Salmon and Cucumber sandwiches on brown bread - cals for
these were 266 cals per pack, I had 2 packs and a largish banana.

Packed food is fine as cals are on those but fruit and veg, how do you
get the cals for those?

Anyway ... its interesting looking at the different cals as I would
normally have had the tuna/mayo sandwiche but these were 500 cals per
pack whereas the salmon/cucumber were only 266 per pack so I had 2 of
the salmon rather than 1 of the tuna and was just as nice.

I am generally drinking plenty of either water, water with a little
orange cordial or pepsi max (the sugarless almost calorie free type
cola).

So, at the moment it looks like ill probably end up trying for something
close to:-

Breakfast: 400
Lunch: 800
Dinner: 1000
snacks: 300 *

* ill prob keep these snacks for the evening as thats when i have the
munchies normally. i'll probably stick to apples and bananas as they are
the only fruit i tend to eat and will look around for some nutitious
bars, etc although its probably better i dont get those because its the
sort of thing if i have a bad day i could wolf them all down quite
easily, with fruit it wouldnt happen.

at 2500 cals per day with regular meals ill soon find out if it gives me
enough energy, etc and any weight loss. im in no rush to lose, just want
to get on an even keel with everything. im going to get some swimming
and walking in this weekend too - i might up the cals a little on days
with exercise, will try it on 2500 and see how i feel.

anyway, ive started and I feel good for actually starting it even though
ive started lots of times before this time feels right.

350/350/210

my first goal is to break 300, no time scale, just nice n steady.