Doug here - anybody still around from a year or two ago?

On Mar 1, 12:21*am, "Willow Herself"
wrote:
How about making a plan that is less drastic, but more liveable? You plan, I
recall was very drastic, NOBODY can live like that all the time. It was a
diet, not a lifestyle change.

Since what you were doing wasn't working, you might want to explore other
options. Weight watchers (as written) might be a good option for you.
There's a new plan, which is all about focusing on the right foods and
reasonable portion control.

You can subscribe online, I'm thinking you could do that from Japan.

Good luck Doug, believe me I (and every one else I'm sure) have been there.

Will~

I'm not sure what you mean by "drastic." I believe my diet was
essentially the same as Weight Watchers flex points except for
counting calories directly instead of points, which is easier here
because of the food labeling.

Except for counting calories instead of points I believe everything
was exactly the same as WW, including my daily calorie limit, the
"free points" spread out over the week, the "activity points" from
exercise, etc.

My actual calorie limit was based around 1800 per day net calories. I
think that is a pretty standard diet, and corresponds almost exactly
to the number of calories I would get from WW points.

That's the reason I participated in the WW group - because I felt my
diet was basically the same as WW.

I tried WW online once during a free trial period and found it very
useless. Every time I asked support a question I would get a canned
answer that was unresponsive to the actual question I asked. I thought
it was sort of ridiculous for the prices they were charging so I quit
at the end of the trial. By comparison, for less than that each month
my hosting provider has 24 help via email, phone or live chat where
they answer technical questions in detail. For the kind of membership
price WW charges, I would at least like to have a live chat where I
can get answers to my specific questions. The people here in this
group were much more informative than the WW online program.

About what to do now, I don't know. I am disheartened (maybe
literally - my doctor did some heart checks recently and wants me to
check into the hospital next week for a test they can only do as an
inpatient.)

I just psychologically could not gear myself up to counting calories/
points again, yet felt I wanted to do something, so a little over two
weeks ago - just to get my appetite under control - I started Atkins,
which I had done in the past. Atkins, I know, makes no sense when it
comes to weight loss. But it does have the dramatic effect of bringing
food cravings under control because almost all cravings, for me
anyway, are triggered by high-glycemic foods.

The results were as I expected - a sudden loss the first week, holding
steady the 2nd week and now my weight is creeping up again. Obviously
on Atkins I just eat too many calories and no matter how much they try
to obfuscate the point, that in the end, is really all that matters:
total calories in versus total calories used by your basal metabolism
plus exercise.

Unfortunately, that was also my experience when I tried Weight
Watchers Core for a while. The diet doesn't make sense (to me anyway)
because it is too easy to take in too many calories even when
following the rules literally. Want an avocado? Sure, it's a vegetable
so why not? Core to me is like Atkins with (1) more variety and (2)
less appetite control because you can eat all these insulin spiking
foods like bananas and corn and pineapple and so you never get your
cravings under control. And when you reduce the trigger foods from
Core you're almost back to Atkins. Are there any really obese people
who have ever gotten to their goal weight and kept it off just
following the Core plan? I am skeptical.

I think the only way of losing weight (for me anyway) is complete
journaling, as with Weight Watchers Flex Points or counting calories.
I am just so discouraged after losing all that weight (again) and
staying on my diet for over 700 days and then falling off the wagon
that I don't know what to do. I don't have the will power to just
start the same thing all over again right now, and I don't have the
confidence to think I can keep it off even if I do.

But I don't think my diet was "drastic" by any means. It was designed
to let me stay on it for the rest of my life.

doug

On Mar 1, 2:17*am, " wrote:
On Feb 27, 11:01*pm, doug lerner wrote:



This is Doug in Japan. I haven't posted in a while.

People who are long-time members will remember that three years ago I
started at 125 kg and then got down to a low of 78.8 kg over a year
and half or so.

Unfortunately , since last year I've been regaining and regaining and,
sigh, I'm back to where I started and have been at my original weight
for several months now.

It's very depressing. I really thought I had the problem beat this
time, but I ended up regaining like I did twice before.

I don't really have the mental energy to stick with it again. I can't
understand it. I could go 700 days without even ONE time going off my
diet and now I can't even stick with it a full week.

Very depressing...

doug

Yes, and I bet when you were losing, you often weighed yourself, and
exercised and were very careful about what you ate.....then you made
the decision to overeat and miraculously nothing happed at first.
Subconsciously though, you knew it would. You stopped weighing
yourself and exercising and the next thing you know you ballooned back
to where you were. Ah, yes, the yo-yo. Only one thing
works......NEVER, EVER, overeat. Not for your birthday, not for
Christmas, never. People who have problem with overeating are like
alcoholics. If you are a recovering alcoholic, you don't ever take
that first drink. Since we need to eat, where we need to draw the line
is by never overeating. Once you cheat, there is no going back until
you become disgusted with yourself..your lack of control and looks,
and health, and decide to torture yourself all over again with a
strict diet. Unfortunately, you do need to do that again, but this
time promise yourself never to overeat. That's how I did it afer
several yo-yo diets and I have kept the weight off. People who do not
have problems with their weight don't understand that overeaters can
pack away 8-10,000 calories in one day because they crave food not for
the nutrition but because their primal, genetic makeup tells them that
if they don't gorge themsleves, they will starve. We overeaters have
to use our brains and not trust our appetites or emotions where food
is concerned because nature has played a cruel joke on us.

I agree with your never overeat philosophy. For over 700 days that's
what I did - there was never an excuse to overeat - not birthdays,
holidays, travel, weddings, funerals - I stayed on my diet no matter
what. I even got into some disputes here with people who said you
should be allowed to celebrate certain "feast days" and take off. I
strongly disagree with that point of view and agree with what you are
saying.

But easier said than done.

At some point "something" happened. I don't know what. And I just fell
off the wagon again.

I did continue to weigh myself daily though. So I was aware of what
was happening. I just couldn't get it under control again.

I was reading an article about research into why over 80% of weight
losers rebound. They said that the number of fat cells in your body
don't diminish as you diet. All that happens is that fat is drained
from them. So at a certain point they start sending massive signals to
your brain saying, "feed me - I'm starving."

I suspect something like that takes over from common sense at a
certain point.

Very discouraging.

doug

irst i think for me at least the calories were a little low, but lets not
discuss that right now, lets discuss.

first, get to that doctors torture and get a complete as you can work up on
your health, after you have a good picture of where you are health wise it
may motivate you.

next, truth is doug the answer is right in this post and you wrote it, read
what you wrote about journalling, when you journal you lose, that is the
real lifestyle change you need to make permenant, maybe for a few weeks
don't worry about the calories, first wek just write what you eat, when you
have that down, write how much of what you eat, after that add when you eat,
next how you are feeling when you eat, then when you have all of that start
looking up calories, best of luck Lee
"douglerner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 12:21 am, "Willow Herself"
wrote:
How about making a plan that is less drastic, but more liveable? You plan,
I
recall was very drastic, NOBODY can live like that all the time. It was a
diet, not a lifestyle change.

Since what you were doing wasn't working, you might want to explore other
options. Weight watchers (as written) might be a good option for you.
There's a new plan, which is all about focusing on the right foods and
reasonable portion control.

You can subscribe online, I'm thinking you could do that from Japan.

Good luck Doug, believe me I (and every one else I'm sure) have been
there.

Will~

I'm not sure what you mean by "drastic." I believe my diet was
essentially the same as Weight Watchers flex points except for
counting calories directly instead of points, which is easier here
because of the food labeling.

Except for counting calories instead of points I believe everything
was exactly the same as WW, including my daily calorie limit, the
"free points" spread out over the week, the "activity points" from
exercise, etc.

My actual calorie limit was based around 1800 per day net calories. I
think that is a pretty standard diet, and corresponds almost exactly
to the number of calories I would get from WW points.

That's the reason I participated in the WW group - because I felt my
diet was basically the same as WW.

I tried WW online once during a free trial period and found it very
useless. Every time I asked support a question I would get a canned
answer that was unresponsive to the actual question I asked. I thought
it was sort of ridiculous for the prices they were charging so I quit
at the end of the trial. By comparison, for less than that each month
my hosting provider has 24 help via email, phone or live chat where
they answer technical questions in detail. For the kind of membership
price WW charges, I would at least like to have a live chat where I
can get answers to my specific questions. The people here in this
group were much more informative than the WW online program.

About what to do now, I don't know. I am disheartened (maybe
literally - my doctor did some heart checks recently and wants me to
check into the hospital next week for a test they can only do as an
inpatient.)

I just psychologically could not gear myself up to counting calories/
points again, yet felt I wanted to do something, so a little over two
weeks ago - just to get my appetite under control - I started Atkins,
which I had done in the past. Atkins, I know, makes no sense when it
comes to weight loss. But it does have the dramatic effect of bringing
food cravings under control because almost all cravings, for me
anyway, are triggered by high-glycemic foods.

The results were as I expected - a sudden loss the first week, holding
steady the 2nd week and now my weight is creeping up again. Obviously
on Atkins I just eat too many calories and no matter how much they try
to obfuscate the point, that in the end, is really all that matters:
total calories in versus total calories used by your basal metabolism
plus exercise.

Unfortunately, that was also my experience when I tried Weight
Watchers Core for a while. The diet doesn't make sense (to me anyway)
because it is too easy to take in too many calories even when
following the rules literally. Want an avocado? Sure, it's a vegetable
so why not? Core to me is like Atkins with (1) more variety and (2)
less appetite control because you can eat all these insulin spiking
foods like bananas and corn and pineapple and so you never get your
cravings under control. And when you reduce the trigger foods from
Core you're almost back to Atkins. Are there any really obese people
who have ever gotten to their goal weight and kept it off just
following the Core plan? I am skeptical.

I think the only way of losing weight (for me anyway) is complete
journaling, as with Weight Watchers Flex Points or counting calories.
I am just so discouraged after losing all that weight (again) and
staying on my diet for over 700 days and then falling off the wagon
that I don't know what to do. I don't have the will power to just
start the same thing all over again right now, and I don't have the
confidence to think I can keep it off even if I do.

But I don't think my diet was "drastic" by any means. It was designed
to let me stay on it for the rest of my life.

doug

We discussed this many times in the past. So, I don't know where to go from
here anymore. Do what youthink works for you.

I am a women, less muscle mass than you have, I'm probably shorter than you
(since I'm short even for a woman) and weigh less than you do. Everytime I
read one of your menu, all I can think is "god, I'd be starving".. I've lost
the weight, maintained a healthy weight for the last 6 years. Maybe I'm
reading your menus wrong, but that's the impression I always get from them.

Part of my job is to read people's journals and critique, trying to help
them make it work. I look at a LOT of journal every week. So I have a good
sense of what a portion is, and what people in general eat in a day.

All of this being said, I certainly DO agree with journaling. Not only it's
a good way to keep your portions in check, but it's a good anchor, something
to remind you of what you are doing and why.

What plan you choose to follow doesn't really matter (as long as it's
healthy of course). Many people are successful just doing their own plan.
The key, I think, is to not deprive yourself, let yourself enjoy treats, and
have a menu that will not bore you. However you achieve that is fine.

What you did before worked for a while, but didn't work long term. What can
you take from it, and bring to a new way of doing this that would work for
you long term. That's the question, not how to force yourself back into that
plan that doens't work for you anymore.

The main thing that has always struck me is how hard you are on yourself.
The simple idea of never stepping aside your "diet" is an utopia. Nobody is
perfect, it'd be boring anyway wouldn't it? Once one is perfect, there is
nothing left to learn.

You can do this Doug, be good to yourself, and your "self" will be good to
you.

Will~

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 12:21 am, "Willow Herself"
wrote:
How about making a plan that is less drastic, but more liveable? You plan,
I
recall was very drastic, NOBODY can live like that all the time. It was a
diet, not a lifestyle change.

Since what you were doing wasn't working, you might want to explore other
options. Weight watchers (as written) might be a good option for you.
There's a new plan, which is all about focusing on the right foods and
reasonable portion control.

You can subscribe online, I'm thinking you could do that from Japan.

Good luck Doug, believe me I (and every one else I'm sure) have been
there.

Will~

I'm not sure what you mean by "drastic." I believe my diet was
essentially the same as Weight Watchers flex points except for
counting calories directly instead of points, which is easier here
because of the food labeling.

Except for counting calories instead of points I believe everything
was exactly the same as WW, including my daily calorie limit, the
"free points" spread out over the week, the "activity points" from
exercise, etc.

My actual calorie limit was based around 1800 per day net calories. I
think that is a pretty standard diet, and corresponds almost exactly
to the number of calories I would get from WW points.

That's the reason I participated in the WW group - because I felt my
diet was basically the same as WW.

I tried WW online once during a free trial period and found it very
useless. Every time I asked support a question I would get a canned
answer that was unresponsive to the actual question I asked. I thought
it was sort of ridiculous for the prices they were charging so I quit
at the end of the trial. By comparison, for less than that each month
my hosting provider has 24 help via email, phone or live chat where
they answer technical questions in detail. For the kind of membership
price WW charges, I would at least like to have a live chat where I
can get answers to my specific questions. The people here in this
group were much more informative than the WW online program.

About what to do now, I don't know. I am disheartened (maybe
literally - my doctor did some heart checks recently and wants me to
check into the hospital next week for a test they can only do as an
inpatient.)

I just psychologically could not gear myself up to counting calories/
points again, yet felt I wanted to do something, so a little over two
weeks ago - just to get my appetite under control - I started Atkins,
which I had done in the past. Atkins, I know, makes no sense when it
comes to weight loss. But it does have the dramatic effect of bringing
food cravings under control because almost all cravings, for me
anyway, are triggered by high-glycemic foods.

The results were as I expected - a sudden loss the first week, holding
steady the 2nd week and now my weight is creeping up again. Obviously
on Atkins I just eat too many calories and no matter how much they try
to obfuscate the point, that in the end, is really all that matters:
total calories in versus total calories used by your basal metabolism
plus exercise.

Unfortunately, that was also my experience when I tried Weight
Watchers Core for a while. The diet doesn't make sense (to me anyway)
because it is too easy to take in too many calories even when
following the rules literally. Want an avocado? Sure, it's a vegetable
so why not? Core to me is like Atkins with (1) more variety and (2)
less appetite control because you can eat all these insulin spiking
foods like bananas and corn and pineapple and so you never get your
cravings under control. And when you reduce the trigger foods from
Core you're almost back to Atkins. Are there any really obese people
who have ever gotten to their goal weight and kept it off just
following the Core plan? I am skeptical.

I think the only way of losing weight (for me anyway) is complete
journaling, as with Weight Watchers Flex Points or counting calories.
I am just so discouraged after losing all that weight (again) and
staying on my diet for over 700 days and then falling off the wagon
that I don't know what to do. I don't have the will power to just
start the same thing all over again right now, and I don't have the
confidence to think I can keep it off even if I do.

But I don't think my diet was "drastic" by any means. It was designed
to let me stay on it for the rest of my life.

doug

That's the part I totally disagree with you about.

The idea of never deviating from your diet has proven again and again to be
impossible to maintain. You proved it yourself.

All or nothing is no way to live, and not a solution to a weight problem.
You say yourself that you can't get it together, but yet blame it on your
fat cells "starving"...

If you feed them a little from time to time, they might get used to limited
supplies, instead of wrecking up your metabolism.
Will~

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 2:17 am, " wrote:
On Feb 27, 11:01 pm, doug lerner wrote:



This is Doug in Japan. I haven't posted in a while.

People who are long-time members will remember that three years ago I
started at 125 kg and then got down to a low of 78.8 kg over a year
and half or so.

Unfortunately , since last year I've been regaining and regaining and,
sigh, I'm back to where I started and have been at my original weight
for several months now.

It's very depressing. I really thought I had the problem beat this
time, but I ended up regaining like I did twice before.

I don't really have the mental energy to stick with it again. I can't
understand it. I could go 700 days without even ONE time going off my
diet and now I can't even stick with it a full week.

Very depressing...

doug

Yes, and I bet when you were losing, you often weighed yourself, and
exercised and were very careful about what you ate.....then you made
the decision to overeat and miraculously nothing happed at first.
Subconsciously though, you knew it would. You stopped weighing
yourself and exercising and the next thing you know you ballooned back
to where you were. Ah, yes, the yo-yo. Only one thing
works......NEVER, EVER, overeat. Not for your birthday, not for
Christmas, never. People who have problem with overeating are like
alcoholics. If you are a recovering alcoholic, you don't ever take
that first drink. Since we need to eat, where we need to draw the line
is by never overeating. Once you cheat, there is no going back until
you become disgusted with yourself..your lack of control and looks,
and health, and decide to torture yourself all over again with a
strict diet. Unfortunately, you do need to do that again, but this
time promise yourself never to overeat. That's how I did it afer
several yo-yo diets and I have kept the weight off. People who do not
have problems with their weight don't understand that overeaters can
pack away 8-10,000 calories in one day because they crave food not for
the nutrition but because their primal, genetic makeup tells them that
if they don't gorge themsleves, they will starve. We overeaters have
to use our brains and not trust our appetites or emotions where food
is concerned because nature has played a cruel joke on us.

I agree with your never overeat philosophy. For over 700 days that's
what I did - there was never an excuse to overeat - not birthdays,
holidays, travel, weddings, funerals - I stayed on my diet no matter
what. I even got into some disputes here with people who said you
should be allowed to celebrate certain "feast days" and take off. I
strongly disagree with that point of view and agree with what you are
saying.

But easier said than done.

At some point "something" happened. I don't know what. And I just fell
off the wagon again.

I did continue to weigh myself daily though. So I was aware of what
was happening. I just couldn't get it under control again.

I was reading an article about research into why over 80% of weight
losers rebound. They said that the number of fat cells in your body
don't diminish as you diet. All that happens is that fat is drained
from them. So at a certain point they start sending massive signals to
your brain saying, "feed me - I'm starving."

I suspect something like that takes over from common sense at a
certain point.

Very discouraging.

doug

great advice, Lee
"Willow Herself" wrote in
message ...
We discussed this many times in the past. So, I don't know where to go
from here anymore. Do what youthink works for you.

I am a women, less muscle mass than you have, I'm probably shorter than
you (since I'm short even for a woman) and weigh less than you do.
Everytime I read one of your menu, all I can think is "god, I'd be
starving".. I've lost the weight, maintained a healthy weight for the last
6 years. Maybe I'm reading your menus wrong, but that's the impression I
always get from them.

Part of my job is to read people's journals and critique, trying to help
them make it work. I look at a LOT of journal every week. So I have a good
sense of what a portion is, and what people in general eat in a day.

All of this being said, I certainly DO agree with journaling. Not only
it's a good way to keep your portions in check, but it's a good anchor,
something to remind you of what you are doing and why.

What plan you choose to follow doesn't really matter (as long as it's
healthy of course). Many people are successful just doing their own plan.
The key, I think, is to not deprive yourself, let yourself enjoy treats,
and have a menu that will not bore you. However you achieve that is fine.

What you did before worked for a while, but didn't work long term. What
can you take from it, and bring to a new way of doing this that would work
for you long term. That's the question, not how to force yourself back
into that plan that doens't work for you anymore.

The main thing that has always struck me is how hard you are on yourself.
The simple idea of never stepping aside your "diet" is an utopia. Nobody
is perfect, it'd be boring anyway wouldn't it? Once one is perfect, there
is nothing left to learn.

You can do this Doug, be good to yourself, and your "self" will be good to
you.

Will~

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 12:21 am, "Willow Herself"
wrote:
How about making a plan that is less drastic, but more liveable? You
plan, I
recall was very drastic, NOBODY can live like that all the time. It was a
diet, not a lifestyle change.

Since what you were doing wasn't working, you might want to explore other
options. Weight watchers (as written) might be a good option for you.
There's a new plan, which is all about focusing on the right foods and
reasonable portion control.

You can subscribe online, I'm thinking you could do that from Japan.

Good luck Doug, believe me I (and every one else I'm sure) have been
there.

Will~

I'm not sure what you mean by "drastic." I believe my diet was
essentially the same as Weight Watchers flex points except for
counting calories directly instead of points, which is easier here
because of the food labeling.

Except for counting calories instead of points I believe everything
was exactly the same as WW, including my daily calorie limit, the
"free points" spread out over the week, the "activity points" from
exercise, etc.

My actual calorie limit was based around 1800 per day net calories. I
think that is a pretty standard diet, and corresponds almost exactly
to the number of calories I would get from WW points.

That's the reason I participated in the WW group - because I felt my
diet was basically the same as WW.

I tried WW online once during a free trial period and found it very
useless. Every time I asked support a question I would get a canned
answer that was unresponsive to the actual question I asked. I thought
it was sort of ridiculous for the prices they were charging so I quit
at the end of the trial. By comparison, for less than that each month
my hosting provider has 24 help via email, phone or live chat where
they answer technical questions in detail. For the kind of membership
price WW charges, I would at least like to have a live chat where I
can get answers to my specific questions. The people here in this
group were much more informative than the WW online program.

About what to do now, I don't know. I am disheartened (maybe
literally - my doctor did some heart checks recently and wants me to
check into the hospital next week for a test they can only do as an
inpatient.)

I just psychologically could not gear myself up to counting calories/
points again, yet felt I wanted to do something, so a little over two
weeks ago - just to get my appetite under control - I started Atkins,
which I had done in the past. Atkins, I know, makes no sense when it
comes to weight loss. But it does have the dramatic effect of bringing
food cravings under control because almost all cravings, for me
anyway, are triggered by high-glycemic foods.

The results were as I expected - a sudden loss the first week, holding
steady the 2nd week and now my weight is creeping up again. Obviously
on Atkins I just eat too many calories and no matter how much they try
to obfuscate the point, that in the end, is really all that matters:
total calories in versus total calories used by your basal metabolism
plus exercise.

Unfortunately, that was also my experience when I tried Weight
Watchers Core for a while. The diet doesn't make sense (to me anyway)
because it is too easy to take in too many calories even when
following the rules literally. Want an avocado? Sure, it's a vegetable
so why not? Core to me is like Atkins with (1) more variety and (2)
less appetite control because you can eat all these insulin spiking
foods like bananas and corn and pineapple and so you never get your
cravings under control. And when you reduce the trigger foods from
Core you're almost back to Atkins. Are there any really obese people
who have ever gotten to their goal weight and kept it off just
following the Core plan? I am skeptical.

I think the only way of losing weight (for me anyway) is complete
journaling, as with Weight Watchers Flex Points or counting calories.
I am just so discouraged after losing all that weight (again) and
staying on my diet for over 700 days and then falling off the wagon
that I don't know what to do. I don't have the will power to just
start the same thing all over again right now, and I don't have the
confidence to think I can keep it off even if I do.

But I don't think my diet was "drastic" by any means. It was designed
to let me stay on it for the rest of my life.

doug

Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug

doug it almost sounds as if you are self sabatoging for some reason, can't
help with the why, just what it looks like from the outside, I sure hope you
get it going, you are a good person, and i would like to have dinner with
you again some day, Lee
"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write
the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than
you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to
you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My
goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of
1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days
and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward
to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than
me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was
way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to
lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched
to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels
returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I
lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He
immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of
the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low
calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time
work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug


The angiogram isn't bad. It was kind of interesting actually, since I
could see a monitor showing the images (at least when the xray thing
wasn't in front of my face) and could see my heart and the puffs of
dye. I probably could have seen the blockages if I knew what to look
for.

On the other hand, they don't do those for no reason, since they do
have some risk.

The american heart association recommends a diet with relatively low
fat, low saturated fat, whole grains, and limited red meat. (low salt
and sugar of course).

del

See below...

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

I don't know, maybe it's the way you worded things, or the food you ate, I
don't remember the details of the menus, just remember thinking "god, I
would never be able to live like this".

Different things work for different people, but that's the impression I've
always gotten.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I've been there, everybody has I think.

For "myself" that's when I trot out the tools for living.

Set up a goal, a storyboard... what do I want and when? What are the steps
that I need to take to make it work. I plan everything to a T, and get on
with it. If the plan falls appart, I start again.. sometimes it takes a few
tries ;op

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

Fear is a good starter, but not a good motivation long term. What else do
you get out of being at your healthy weight?


But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

It's not easy to figure out, sometimes I feel that it's what trips us up,
running out of ideas.

doug




You know what is my motivation just now? I just moved back to San Francisco
within reach of all those marvelous produce markets and asian grocery
stores. I'm trying a new veggie every week. That gets me interested...
Whatever work!

I don't have all the answers obviously, I don't even have many... but you
do. Stop looking behind you and look ahead.

You're out of control now, what's the first step you can take to get on
track? Once that step is on, find the next one. One step at a time!!

Will~