"stalled" and discouraged

No, it's not weight loss I've been stalled on... I'm wanting blood
glucose readings to get lower, not scale readings.

Background info on blood glucose readings: Normal non-diabetic blood
sugar runs around 80-90 (I measured my non-diabetic hubby after a big
giant piece of chocolate cake and his highest spike was 97). Bernstein
wants his patients in normal ranges, aiming at 85 round the clock. I
would be quite happy myself to see my fbg in the 100 range, with a 140
at one-hour and 120 at 2-hour after meals - that's sort of my immediate
goal. 3 months of low-carbing got me down to 140-160 regularly, which
is OK compared to uncontrolled diabetes numbers (my last cheat that
included pasta ran me up to 358). But I started on metformin to try to
get my numbers down. Doctor started me on 500 mg, worked up to twice a
day, and my numbers fell about 20, to the 120-140 range. I requested a
dosage increase as that was not good enough to hit my goals.

Metformin has two modes of action... it reduces insulin resistance,
meaning your cells manage to take in more glucose than usual, meaning
your body doesn't have to make so damned much insulin to lower bg. It
also supresses the liver, which makes glocose out of amino acids if it
thinks you don't have enough, so less glucose gets dumped into the blood
to begin with.

So I've been working the dosage increases the past couple weeks and it
has been really rough. I've been increasing my metformin dosage
gradually... from 500 mg 2x/day to my current 850 mg 3x/day which is the
maximum dose. I've played with taking doses at various times as well,
but have seen very little improvement, fasting blood glucose running in
the 140-150 range and post meal values in the 140-160 range, nothing
below 140 at all. Might as well not be on the meds at all... I got this
much out of low-carbing.

Also, I've felt like crap. Every dosage increase of metformin gives me
the squirts for a few days until I adjust to it, which is defintely not
fun. I have tried to stabilize the GI effects for several days before
increasing the dosage, just to give myself a bit of a break. Yes, the
scale shows improvement, but I know that's not *real* improvement...
empty intestines would more than account for the scale loss I'm seeing...

The whole thing has been really discouraging. For me, bg is the main
measure of my success at low-carbing and exercising and all. I measure
my weight now and then, and see lifting improvements at the gym, but I
consider my meter to show my *real* progress. And there just hasn't
been any; higher dosages of metformin are doing less than the original
dose was doing.

Further, I have been *exhausted* for several weeks now. I mean, I'm
sleeping 8-10 hours at a shot, twice a day. Get up, sit down to work on
the computer (I'm a programmer), and feel like going back to bed in an
hour. The tiniest amounts of physical movement, like getting up to get
a drink, or reaching across to put my seat belt on, take huge amounts of
motivation - I'm just so, so tired.

All the "feel good" benefits of low-carbing are gone. I feel awful.
I've only made it to the gym twice in the past couple weeks, once just
floated around in the pool (hardly could count as "swimming") and once
did an upper body workout, after which I slept for 10 hours.

My food intake has deceased tremendously because it takes too much
energy to fix food. And I'm too wiped to think about going grocery
shopping to pick up some no-prep kind of food. Still my bg hadn't gone
below 140 in weeks. The body makes virtually no glucose from fat, so it
*must* be making it from protein, and given that I'm barely eating,
that's got to be body muscle turning into these high blood sugars.
Which means some of my weight loss is likely muscle loss.

But *how* can I be doing that when metformin supresses the ability of
the liver to turn protein into glucose to begin with?

Where the hell is the sugar coming from? I see right here on my meter
that I've got plenty of sugar in my blood.

I *know* metformin increases the cell's ability to use that fuel, so how
can I be so frigging exhausted? My cells should be "eating" more than
they have in years. I should feel *more* energetic, I should be
sleeping *less*, I should be doing *great*.

I spent many hours the other night reading on diabetes again. Got
myself all worked up. Maybe I'm dehydrated, maybe I have too much iron,
maybe I need more electrolytes, maybe my magensium is low, maybe my
leptin levels are screwed up, maybe I have cortisol issues, maybe my
thyroid is screwed up, maybe, maybe, maybe... too damned many variables.

Maybe I should just become a frigging hypochondriac and have scores of
different things wrong with me and live the rest of my life obsessing
over my damned meter. Might as well eat a frigging chocolate bar and
have some damned crackers with my cheese since my damned blood sugar
won't go down any way. Major pity party, though I *didn't* eat crap.

I spent the day after that basically angry at everyone who isn't
diabetic. ****ing *******s get to have normal blood sugar without all
this damned work. **** them and **** their blood glucose readings,
lucky *******s. People who can eat chocolate cake and stay below 100...
BAH! Don't have to frigging poke their damned fingers over and over
again, just get to be frigging normal. *******s, all of them.

I forgot to get a copy of my blood work last time I was at the doctor,
so called them up to ask what my results had been after my evening of
research into all the ways I could be ****ed up. Just asked the nurse
if anything was outside of the lab normal ranges... and no, you're fine,
wait... except for this high white blood count.

I'm SICK? Someone could've *mentioned* that I was sick.

You know, I *really* couldn't tell. Do I have a fever? How the heck do
I know, I am perimenopausal, I have hot flashes. Do I have GI symptoms?
How the heck do I know, I'm adjusting metformin dosages which causes
that. The only symptom I had was being unbelievably tired (which I was
beating myself up for "laziness" and "lack of motivation") and the high
bg readings (which can be caused by infection).

I'm freaking out over a complete inability to get my blood glucose down,
imagining all sorts of things that might be "wrong" with me, and it
turns out I'm just sick.

Sheesh.

So... today my fbg was 128, lower than it's been in weeks. Couple hours
later, it's 126. I'm still exhausted, though not quite so badly. So I
guess I'm on the mend. I may have to titrate the metformin back down as
I get better, we'll see how it goes.

And I'll stop hating all you non-diabetics now.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

Seems like Metformin is more of a problem than anything else.


"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
No, it's not weight loss I've been stalled on... I'm wanting blood
glucose readings to get lower, not scale readings.

Background info on blood glucose readings: Normal non-diabetic blood
sugar runs around 80-90 (I measured my non-diabetic hubby after a big
giant piece of chocolate cake and his highest spike was 97). Bernstein
wants his patients in normal ranges, aiming at 85 round the clock. I
would be quite happy myself to see my fbg in the 100 range, with a 140
at one-hour and 120 at 2-hour after meals - that's sort of my immediate
goal. 3 months of low-carbing got me down to 140-160 regularly, which
is OK compared to uncontrolled diabetes numbers (my last cheat that
included pasta ran me up to 358). But I started on metformin to try to
get my numbers down. Doctor started me on 500 mg, worked up to twice a
day, and my numbers fell about 20, to the 120-140 range. I requested a
dosage increase as that was not good enough to hit my goals.

Metformin has two modes of action... it reduces insulin resistance,
meaning your cells manage to take in more glucose than usual, meaning
your body doesn't have to make so damned much insulin to lower bg. It
also supresses the liver, which makes glocose out of amino acids if it
thinks you don't have enough, so less glucose gets dumped into the blood
to begin with.

So I've been working the dosage increases the past couple weeks and it
has been really rough. I've been increasing my metformin dosage
gradually... from 500 mg 2x/day to my current 850 mg 3x/day which is the
maximum dose. I've played with taking doses at various times as well,
but have seen very little improvement, fasting blood glucose running in
the 140-150 range and post meal values in the 140-160 range, nothing
below 140 at all. Might as well not be on the meds at all... I got this
much out of low-carbing.

Also, I've felt like crap. Every dosage increase of metformin gives me
the squirts for a few days until I adjust to it, which is defintely not
fun. I have tried to stabilize the GI effects for several days before
increasing the dosage, just to give myself a bit of a break. Yes, the
scale shows improvement, but I know that's not *real* improvement...
empty intestines would more than account for the scale loss I'm seeing...

The whole thing has been really discouraging. For me, bg is the main
measure of my success at low-carbing and exercising and all. I measure
my weight now and then, and see lifting improvements at the gym, but I
consider my meter to show my *real* progress. And there just hasn't
been any; higher dosages of metformin are doing less than the original
dose was doing.

Further, I have been *exhausted* for several weeks now. I mean, I'm
sleeping 8-10 hours at a shot, twice a day. Get up, sit down to work on
the computer (I'm a programmer), and feel like going back to bed in an
hour. The tiniest amounts of physical movement, like getting up to get
a drink, or reaching across to put my seat belt on, take huge amounts of
motivation - I'm just so, so tired.

All the "feel good" benefits of low-carbing are gone. I feel awful.
I've only made it to the gym twice in the past couple weeks, once just
floated around in the pool (hardly could count as "swimming") and once
did an upper body workout, after which I slept for 10 hours.

My food intake has deceased tremendously because it takes too much
energy to fix food. And I'm too wiped to think about going grocery
shopping to pick up some no-prep kind of food. Still my bg hadn't gone
below 140 in weeks. The body makes virtually no glucose from fat, so it
*must* be making it from protein, and given that I'm barely eating,
that's got to be body muscle turning into these high blood sugars.
Which means some of my weight loss is likely muscle loss.

But *how* can I be doing that when metformin supresses the ability of
the liver to turn protein into glucose to begin with?

Where the hell is the sugar coming from? I see right here on my meter
that I've got plenty of sugar in my blood.

I *know* metformin increases the cell's ability to use that fuel, so how
can I be so frigging exhausted? My cells should be "eating" more than
they have in years. I should feel *more* energetic, I should be
sleeping *less*, I should be doing *great*.

I spent many hours the other night reading on diabetes again. Got
myself all worked up. Maybe I'm dehydrated, maybe I have too much iron,
maybe I need more electrolytes, maybe my magensium is low, maybe my
leptin levels are screwed up, maybe I have cortisol issues, maybe my
thyroid is screwed up, maybe, maybe, maybe... too damned many variables.

Maybe I should just become a frigging hypochondriac and have scores of
different things wrong with me and live the rest of my life obsessing
over my damned meter. Might as well eat a frigging chocolate bar and
have some damned crackers with my cheese since my damned blood sugar
won't go down any way. Major pity party, though I *didn't* eat crap.

I spent the day after that basically angry at everyone who isn't
diabetic. ****ing *******s get to have normal blood sugar without all
this damned work. **** them and **** their blood glucose readings,
lucky *******s. People who can eat chocolate cake and stay below 100...
BAH! Don't have to frigging poke their damned fingers over and over
again, just get to be frigging normal. *******s, all of them.

I forgot to get a copy of my blood work last time I was at the doctor,
so called them up to ask what my results had been after my evening of
research into all the ways I could be ****ed up. Just asked the nurse
if anything was outside of the lab normal ranges... and no, you're fine,
wait... except for this high white blood count.

I'm SICK? Someone could've *mentioned* that I was sick.

You know, I *really* couldn't tell. Do I have a fever? How the heck do
I know, I am perimenopausal, I have hot flashes. Do I have GI symptoms?
How the heck do I know, I'm adjusting metformin dosages which causes
that. The only symptom I had was being unbelievably tired (which I was
beating myself up for "laziness" and "lack of motivation") and the high
bg readings (which can be caused by infection).

I'm freaking out over a complete inability to get my blood glucose down,
imagining all sorts of things that might be "wrong" with me, and it
turns out I'm just sick.

Sheesh.

So... today my fbg was 128, lower than it's been in weeks. Couple hours
later, it's 126. I'm still exhausted, though not quite so badly. So I
guess I'm on the mend. I may have to titrate the metformin back down as
I get better, we'll see how it goes.

And I'll stop hating all you non-diabetics now.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

JC Der Koenig wrote:

Seems like Metformin is more of a problem than anything else.

I considered that and thought about stopping it. But exhaustion really
isn't a known side effect of metformin, except in cases of lactic
acidosis. The notion that I have some "new" unreported side effect for
a drug that's been in use this long seems fairly unlikely.

It seems much more likely that I have an infection, since infection can
raise bg to really high levels. That seems the most logical hypothesis
at this point; I'll give it a week and see how I do.

If not, well... we'll see. There's going back to just low-carb and
exercise, the bg wasn't *that* bad with the diet.


--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

In article , says...
Further, I have been *exhausted* for several weeks now. I mean, I'm
sleeping 8-10 hours at a shot, twice a day. Get up, sit down to work on
the computer (I'm a programmer), and feel like going back to bed in an
hour. The tiniest amounts of physical movement, like getting up to get
a drink, or reaching across to put my seat belt on, take huge amounts of
motivation - I'm just so, so tired.
[...]
Where the hell is the sugar coming from? I see right here on my meter
that I've got plenty of sugar in my blood.
[...]
I spent many hours the other night reading on diabetes again. Got
myself all worked up. Maybe I'm dehydrated, maybe I have too much iron,
maybe I need more electrolytes, maybe my magensium is low, maybe my
leptin levels are screwed up, maybe I have cortisol issues, maybe my
thyroid is screwed up, maybe, maybe, maybe... too damned many variables.
[...]
I'm freaking out over a complete inability to get my blood glucose down,
imagining all sorts of things that might be "wrong" with me, and it
turns out I'm just sick.

Whew, you've certainly been stomped on lately! I haven't looked into the whole
blood sugar deal yet (probably will soon since my awareness is higher now after
reading this group and Lord knows I've abused my body long enough for it to be a
problem eventually), but I've been sick for weeks at a time with MAJOR fatigue,
so I DEFINITELY hear you on THAT one. I'm glad to hear you're on the mend!

--
Saffire
205/157/125 - 5'2.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Saffire wrote:

Whew, you've certainly been stomped on lately! I haven't looked into the whole
blood sugar deal yet (probably will soon since my awareness is higher now after
reading this group and Lord knows I've abused my body long enough for it to be a
problem eventually),

It could be. You lose really slowly and that can be because of high
insulin levels due to insulin resistance.


but I've been sick for weeks at a time with MAJOR fatigue,
so I DEFINITELY hear you on THAT one.

Sucks, doesn't it? The *biggest* benefit to me of low-carbing is how
much better I feel, and just losing that over the past few weeks has
sucked big time. And I've gotten behind on everything; my garden is
incredibly overgrown with weeds.


I'm glad to hear you're on the mend!

Me too.

I had some hamburger fried with a bit of bell pepper and onion and an
hour later, my bg was lower still. Lowest since I started tracking this
year yet... 123!

I seem to be healing up a bit. Going to take a nap now. I think I'm
getting better.

I may be a tad more patient with people whining about stalls now. I got
myself *really* emotional over this "stall" and it was only a couple
weeks. It's really frustrating as hell to know you're doing everything
you're supposed to and still not seeing results.

I got into quite the state. I was talking to hubby today and he
mentioned he wasn't sure if my joking-bitchiness yesterday was cause I
was really upset or if I was just teasing. I told him, "Yes, I was
really upset, but I was joking about what I was bitching about, because
I couldn't *say* what I was upset about... I was angry at you for not
being diabetic! How frigging stupid is *that*?"

I shall dub a new acronymn to apply to myself: WDFID (whiny diabetic
**** in denial).

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:53:49 -0400, Jackie Patti wrote:

No, it's not weight loss I've been stalled on... I'm wanting blood
glucose readings to get lower, not scale readings.

Hi Jackie,

I don't have the oomph to respond to your whole letter. MAJOR stress right
now. All of my blood relatives disowned me in one fell swoop yesterday. I
guess I'm a really bad person. (In my family, you're *bad* if you express
to someone that they have hurt you in any way, don'tcha know)

Stress aside, I'm glad that your BGs are under better control. As you can
see, mine aren't. I'm assuming they'll be better tomorrow, once I've
calmed down a bit.

Here's hoping we both lose a significant amount of weight soon, to end the
discouragement and frustration.

Huggles,
Carol
--
Fasting BG 182
227/223/150 (official weigh-day: Thursday)
Bernstein 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001
Diet, Exercise, Oral Medication

In article , damsel-
says...
I don't have the oomph to respond to your whole letter. MAJOR stress right
now. All of my blood relatives disowned me in one fell swoop yesterday. I
guess I'm a really bad person. (In my family, you're *bad* if you express
to someone that they have hurt you in any way, don'tcha know)

{{{{{{{{{{ CAROL }}}}}}}}}}

--
Saffire
205/157/125 - 5'2.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:03:16 -0700, Saffire
wrote:

In article , damsel-
says...
I don't have the oomph to respond to your whole letter. MAJOR stress right
now. All of my blood relatives disowned me in one fell swoop yesterday. I
guess I'm a really bad person. (In my family, you're *bad* if you express
to someone that they have hurt you in any way, don'tcha know)

{{{{{{{{{{ CAROL }}}}}}}}}}

Thank you, Saffire. :-)

After having a good cry with my SO, my step-daughter, and her boyfriend
(who all love me, even though I'm evil), I think I'm past most of the pain
and will move on to the resentment phase. These things take time. Then
comes downright indignation and then emptiness. This has happened before,
with my brother. I had the unmitigated gall to tell him that he had hurt
my feelings, too.

Butch up, Carol! Pretend nothing's wrong, and they'll all still love you.

Bull****!

Sorry for taking this so far off-topic. Just needed to get it off my chest
a little more.

Carol
--
Fasting BG 182
227/223/150 (official weigh-day: Thursday)
Bernstein 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001
Diet, Exercise, Oral Medication

I *know* metformin increases the cell's ability to use that fuel, so how
can I be so frigging exhausted? My cells should be "eating" more than
they have in years. I should feel *more* energetic, I should be
sleeping *less*, I should be doing *great*.

Metformin made me feel comatose. Walking around like a zombie never went away.
I tried lower and higher doses, with and without food, different times of the
day, etc. I finally gave it up.

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/198/140
& hubby- 6' 310/210/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

I guess I'm a really bad person.

most of the best people are.

(((((Carol)))))