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#1
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Relative human energy values
If I lived 300 yrs ago and wanted a loaf of bread, I had to expend a lot
of energy to get it. Clearing a field, plowing planting, harvesting, threshing, grinding, kneeding and baking would keep me lean and muscular. Now I can drive to the market and buy a loaf with little effort. Unfortuntely, my middle aged body isn't "worthy" of the bread's food value because I haven't expended the human energy to produce it, or do much physical labor of any sort. The human cost without the personal energy effort is weight gain and poor health. Meat required a lot less energy, even with crude hunting tools. Grass fed venison was pretty healthy compared with grain fed beef. Vegetable gardens produce a lot more food with less effort than a wheat field. They're smaller and yield a lot of produce. Meats and vegetables don't produce the weight gain that grains produce. I could eat very small quantities of grain products, but they're so enticing, and I crave them so much, that limiting myself to small portions requires almost as much effort as plowing a field. Damned carbs--why do I love thee? Uncle E. A Type II diabetic. |
#2
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Relative human energy values
I was watching PBS on the swamplands in Florida.
They mentioned that when the Spanish explorers first reached the Florida swamplands, they found the hunter-gather natives to be considerably taller than themselves. It is a common theme in historical/culture works to comment upon the greater height of hunter-gatherers compared to agriculturists... This work is usually based on skeletal remains and written records, such as the Florida incidents above. In an article on Oil/Agriculture in Fortune magazine, about a year ago, it was mentioned that during the revolutinary war in the USA, the American soldiers were considerably taller than the French soldiers. The author attributed that to the higher protein diet of the American Frontiersman compared to the higher carbohydrate (wheat) of the Frenchmen. Protein eaten is essential to adding protein based mass to the body such as muscle (nitrogen in the amino group of the amino acids that constitute protein) Diet deals with weight in _at_ _least_ two ways. 1) FAT GIRTH 2) HEIGHT 3)...... Work deals with weight in _at_ _least_ two ways. 1) FAT GIRTH 2) CALORIES BURNT 3)..... Uncle Enrico wrote: If I lived 300 yrs ago and wanted a loaf of bread, I had to expend a lot of energy to get it. Clearing a field, plowing planting, harvesting, threshing, grinding, kneeding and baking would keep me lean and muscular. Now I can drive to the market and buy a loaf with little effort. Unfortuntely, my middle aged body isn't "worthy" of the bread's food value because I haven't expended the human energy to produce it, or do much physical labor of any sort. The human cost without the personal energy effort is weight gain and poor health. Meat required a lot less energy, even with crude hunting tools. Grass fed venison was pretty healthy compared with grain fed beef. Vegetable gardens produce a lot more food with less effort than a wheat field. They're smaller and yield a lot of produce. Meats and vegetables don't produce the weight gain that grains produce. I could eat very small quantities of grain products, but they're so enticing, and I crave them so much, that limiting myself to small portions requires almost as much effort as plowing a field. Damned carbs--why do I love thee? Uncle E. A Type II diabetic. -- 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other) |
#3
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Relative human energy values
However, looking at museum pieces, we know that people today are taller
in general than ever before. There weren't many 7 foot tall people roaming even pre-colonial America , much less Europe (exaggerated reports about William Wallace aside). I think it has to do with general nutrition. Since people (in general) aren't starving in the OECD nations, they can grow tall. If they eat junk, on average they will get round. If they eat well, on average they will be sticks. Not starving != eating well, obviously. Interesting topic. -Hollywood jbuch wrote: I was watching PBS on the swamplands in Florida. They mentioned that when the Spanish explorers first reached the Florida swamplands, they found the hunter-gather natives to be considerably taller than themselves. It is a common theme in historical/culture works to comment upon the greater height of hunter-gatherers compared to agriculturists... This work is usually based on skeletal remains and written records, such as the Florida incidents above. In an article on Oil/Agriculture in Fortune magazine, about a year ago, it was mentioned that during the revolutinary war in the USA, the American soldiers were considerably taller than the French soldiers. The author attributed that to the higher protein diet of the American Frontiersman compared to the higher carbohydrate (wheat) of the Frenchmen. Protein eaten is essential to adding protein based mass to the body such as muscle (nitrogen in the amino group of the amino acids that constitute protein) Diet deals with weight in _at_ _least_ two ways. 1) FAT GIRTH 2) HEIGHT 3)...... Work deals with weight in _at_ _least_ two ways. 1) FAT GIRTH 2) CALORIES BURNT 3)..... Uncle Enrico wrote: If I lived 300 yrs ago and wanted a loaf of bread, I had to expend a lot of energy to get it. Clearing a field, plowing planting, harvesting, threshing, grinding, kneeding and baking would keep me lean and muscular. Now I can drive to the market and buy a loaf with little effort. Unfortuntely, my middle aged body isn't "worthy" of the bread's food value because I haven't expended the human energy to produce it, or do much physical labor of any sort. The human cost without the personal energy effort is weight gain and poor health. Meat required a lot less energy, even with crude hunting tools. Grass fed venison was pretty healthy compared with grain fed beef. Vegetable gardens produce a lot more food with less effort than a wheat field. They're smaller and yield a lot of produce. Meats and vegetables don't produce the weight gain that grains produce. I could eat very small quantities of grain products, but they're so enticing, and I crave them so much, that limiting myself to small portions requires almost as much effort as plowing a field. Damned carbs--why do I love thee? Uncle E. A Type II diabetic. -- 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other) |
#4
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Relative human energy values
Uncle Enrico wrote:
If I lived 300 yrs ago and wanted a loaf of bread, I had to expend a lot of energy to get it. Clearing a field, plowing planting, harvesting, threshing, grinding, kneeding and baking would keep me lean and muscular. Why wouldn't you just pop down to the corner store and buy it? Three hundred years ago bakeries were quite common. I lived as a child in a small village in Hampshire (UK) where the corner store had been operating as a shop for four hundred years. Even in Biblical times, a couple of thousand years ago bakers didn't have to grow their own grain, it was a commercial product. Perhaps a closer look at the history books? You are correct in that we no longer expend the sort of energy in everyday living that we once did although it is pointless to point a finger at one single factor such as food shopping. There are many factors, one of the biggest and most often ignored is "labour saving" technology. People brag about walking a couple of miles, but in the the quite recent past, people would walk those distances as an everyday part of life. We have dishwashers, remote controls, clothes dryers, automatic vacuum systems, automatic pool cleaners, car washes, dry cleaners, elevators in almost all modern buildings. People tend to drive even a few hundred yards to a store rather than walk. Our employment is less physically demanding, usually seated and with far fewer hours than in the past. Look also at the incredible increase in areas covered by the service industry. We pay other people to wash our cars, wash our dogs, mow our lawns, clean our windows, gutters, etc. Many pay to have their pools serviced weekly, have their ironing done, basic housekeeping, Entertainment and recreation has also changed. Throughout much of the last century we would go out and dance, and the dances were fairly active. The Charleston in my grandparents time, jive and early rock in my parents time, rock and disco in my time. Now many people on a dance floor barely raise a sweat. They stand there swaying. They use computers for recreation, as a form of entertainment, as well as a work tool, so even more time is spent in a sedentary manner. We tend to watch sport nowadays rather than become involved in it. Modern lifestyle as much as diet is responsible. We eat more and are *required* to move less. For most people exercise is now a choice, in the past it was an everyday part of life. Simply going back to a lifestyle common in the fifties, ditching all of the modern labour saving devices, would make a massive difference in expended energy levels. The reality is that most people would sooner stick with their conveniences and pay money to regain a small quantity of the lost exercise opportunity in a gym. Doesn't really make sense. I saw a report about five years ago about the Amish and how they weren't affected by modern problems. Maybe we should all become Amish? g Regards David -- To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted. |
#5
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Relative human energy values
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#6
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Relative human energy values
J. David Anderson wrote:
wrote: However, looking at museum pieces, we know that people today are taller in general than ever before. There weren't many 7 foot tall people roaming even pre-colonial America , much less Europe (exaggerated reports about William Wallace aside). I think it has to do with general nutrition. Since people (in general) aren't starving in the OECD nations, they can grow tall. If they eat junk, on average they will get round. If they eat well, on average they will be sticks. Not starving != eating well, obviously. I think it has more to do with knowledge of micronutrients than total calories available. Before the 20th century few knew about vitamins and many were short. Kids from the early 20th century on were given cod liver oil then daily multis and many were tall, a change that happened in a generation or two and after agriculture could supply large amounts of food. How about natural selection? It would take more than two generations unless there were a very significant culling. This happened to the French when they lost two consequative generations of tall men in WWI and WWII to significant culling. Taller men tend to able to physically dominate smaller men, they are more likely to be the "alpha" males in any community and would have more females available to them; so allowing their genes to predominate. That is the generally accepted belief with regard to why the various populations from our world history have consistently increased in height. Agreed but your time scale is off. Selection across generations like that would take several centuries. It explains why items a thousand years old were for shorter people but not why items a hundred years ago were. |
#7
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Relative human energy values
Doug Freyburger wrote:
J. David Anderson wrote: wrote: However, looking at museum pieces, we know that people today are taller in general than ever before. There weren't many 7 foot tall people roaming even pre-colonial America , much less Europe (exaggerated reports about William Wallace aside). I think it has to do with general nutrition. Since people (in general) aren't starving in the OECD nations, they can grow tall. If they eat junk, on average they will get round. If they eat well, on average they will be sticks. Not starving != eating well, obviously. I think it has more to do with knowledge of micronutrients than total calories available. Before the 20th century few knew about vitamins and many were short. Kids from the early 20th century on were given cod liver oil then daily multis and many were tall, a change that happened in a generation or two and after agriculture could supply large amounts of food. What about those that were taller than their forebears prior to the twentieth century? There has certainly been an above average increase in height in the past hundred years or so that is attributed to better nutrition, but the average height has been increasing (and sometimes decreasing) for many centuries in a way that cannot be explained by simply by nutrition. How about natural selection? It would take more than two generations unless there were a very significant culling. This happened to the French when they lost two consequative generations of tall men in WWI and WWII to significant culling. Where does two generations come into it? People have been slowly getting taller for centuries. Look at the suits of armour in museums. Since the Middle Ages they have become bigger and bigger and as the centuries pass. Roman and Greek soldiers, by modern standards, were midgets. Remember that in the later parts of the first millennium AD men were of a similar height to modern man, but for several centuries the average height reduced, then began to grow again. This still fits in with the natural selection theory as other factors than mere physical size began to influence the selection of mates. A man could offer security that didn't rely on height or physical strength. Taller men tend to able to physically dominate smaller men, they are more likely to be the "alpha" males in any community and would have more females available to them; so allowing their genes to predominate. That is the generally accepted belief with regard to why the various populations from our world history have consistently increased in height. Agreed but your time scale is off. Selection across generations like that would take several centuries. It explains why items a thousand years old were for shorter people but not why items a hundred years ago were. A thousand years ago, in fact from the end of the Roman dominance of history, they grew until they were of a similar height to modern men, then they "shrunk" for some centuries before again reversing the trend. There may be and probably are many factors involved, but when I studied biology, (quite a long time ago g) it was attributed to natural selection with the selection criteria varying over time, but starting with physical dominance. Currently, if nutrition is the primary factor, people like me should be extremely tall. I have always maintained what is currently held to be an ideal diet with plenty of exercise. I was for many years a little over six foot, but recently, since my accident and long convalescence, I appear to have lost half and inch or so. Most growth with regard to height is when the person is extremely young, it is the nutrition of babies and toddlers that has the most noticeable effect. Maybe the Dutch are the tallest Europeans because they breast feed their babies for longer and tend to consume foods that supply calcium for bone growth more than other nations. French women on the other hand, breastfeed for the shortest time among most westernised countries. Regards David -- To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted. |
#8
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Relative human energy values
J. David Anderson wrote: wrote: However, looking at museum pieces, we know that people today are taller in general than ever before. There weren't many 7 foot tall people roaming even pre-colonial America , much less Europe (exaggerated reports about William Wallace aside). I think it has to do with general nutrition. Since people (in general) aren't starving in the OECD nations, they can grow tall. If they eat junk, on average they will get round. If they eat well, on average they will be sticks. Not starving != eating well, obviously. How about natural selection? I'll buy, but with some small reservations. Taller men tend to able to physically dominate smaller men, they are more likely to be the "alpha" males in any community and would have more females available to them; so allowing their genes to predominate. I would accept this argument in polygamous societies, where you have harem style set ups, and the poorer/weaker males get nothing. But in Western Europe / the US, where you don't have a lot of harems, and a lot of short guys marry and have kids, the natural selection argument doesn't hold. Or it doesn't hold as well. With the advent of accounting, short nerds became alpha males. That is the generally accepted belief with regard to why the various populations from our world history have consistently increased in height. I think the lowered cost of food, in real terms, probably has something to do with it. I also think that better understanding of early nutrition has probably had an effect in very recent (on an evolutionary time scale) increases in the trend. I buy evol.ution as a macrotrend. I don't know that you can slightly mutate your way to Yao Ming while the rest of Asia averages out to under two meters. Maybe you can evolve the potential for that, and the nutrition/science/abundance story activates the potential you evolved. I'll buy that. -Hollywood |
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