'Put fat children on Atkins diet'

"Ignoramus21819" wrote in message
...
In article , That T Woman wrote:
In cow's milk you have all kinds of hormones that are given to the cows
and
pass through in the milk. I was reading on another fitness related
newsgroup and the guys were discussing how you can get really huge
(hooge I
think is how they put it) by drinking a gallon of whole milk a day not
just
from the calories but also from the growth hormones. Soy milk doesn't
have
those things in it. I can't drink cow milk or most other dairy products
because they cause too much phlegm production in my sinuses. I don't
know
what component in cow milk causes that but it's a severe reaction in me
that
I go out of my way to avoid.

That's interesting. A gallon of whole milk, if I am not mistaken, 2273
calories. About as much as I eat on average. So if I drank a gallon of
milk in addition to my regular food, I would gey hyoooge, no doubt!

Anyway, I will read up on milk and hormones. Is there perhaps more
expensive milk that is made from cows not fed hormones? Such as
"organic" milk?

Or are you referring to hormones that cows create naturally so that
their little ones grow faster?

i

I think you probably can get "organic" milk that comes from cows that aren't
given hormones to "enhance" their milk production and it probably is much
more expensive than what is commonly available in the supermarket. You'll
probably come across two povs about hormones in milk. Some say
"second-hand" hormones don't effect people and some say any quantity of
hormones can't be good and surely are very bad.

Tonia

On 3/16/2004 10:35 AM, That T Woman wrote:
"Ignoramus21819" wrote in message
...

In article , That T Woman wrote:

In cow's milk you have all kinds of hormones that are given to the cows

and

pass through in the milk. I was reading on another fitness related
newsgroup and the guys were discussing how you can get really huge

(hooge I

think is how they put it) by drinking a gallon of whole milk a day not

just

from the calories but also from the growth hormones. Soy milk doesn't

have

those things in it. I can't drink cow milk or most other dairy products
because they cause too much phlegm production in my sinuses. I don't

know

what component in cow milk causes that but it's a severe reaction in me

that

I go out of my way to avoid.

That's interesting. A gallon of whole milk, if I am not mistaken, 2273
calories. About as much as I eat on average. So if I drank a gallon of
milk in addition to my regular food, I would gey hyoooge, no doubt!

Anyway, I will read up on milk and hormones. Is there perhaps more
expensive milk that is made from cows not fed hormones? Such as
"organic" milk?

Or are you referring to hormones that cows create naturally so that
their little ones grow faster?

i


I think you probably can get "organic" milk that comes from cows that aren't
given hormones to "enhance" their milk production and it probably is much
more expensive than what is commonly available in the supermarket.

Actually it's 20 cents a gallon less expensive here.

You'll
probably come across two povs about hormones in milk. Some say
"second-hand" hormones don't effect people and some say any quantity of
hormones can't be good and surely are very bad.

But some people say that it contributes to early menstraraution for
girls, etc. Also, have you read about it? These cows are given
significantly more antibiotics than others and their milk contains a lot
of puss. Got milk?


--
jmk in NC

In article , Tim Tyler wrote:

My impression is that Atkins diet restricts carbohydrates - but not
fat or protein. So people eat more fat and protein to make up
for the lack of carbohydrates.


Ahh, but you're forgetting about the rest of it. Many people find that
when they reduce the amount of sugar in their diet, and increase the fat
and protein, that their appetite decreases and they eat less of
_everything_ overall. An example from my own life:

Pre low-carb, for dinner when my dad cooked, I could eat a salad, a starchy
side like rice or potatoes, and a huge steak. Then I could have seconds on
the starch, or even thirds on the starch, and still not feel full, have ice
cream or doughnuts for dessert, and then an hour or two later be hungry
again and sit in front of the tv and eat some chips or leftover rice or
potatoes from dinner.

Now that I've replaced the starchy side with a side of brocolli or spinach,
I don't get the fake hunger feelings that were triggered by sugars and
starches, so I am full on a salad, the brocolli, and about half the amount
of steak I used to eat. No dessert, feel satisfied without feeling
"stuffed" no need for late night snacks. Since I'm not eating 2 or 3
servings of rice or potatoes, the _percentage_ of fat and protein in that
meal may be higher, even though the actual _amount_ is lower!

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

My understanding is that growth hormone, like insulin, will be completely
broken down by the digestive process which is why growth hormone (and
insulin) must be injected to bypass the normal digestion process. I don't
drink milk because of an allergy but I suspect that if I drank a gallon of
milk a day (and didn't lose my cookies), I would be hooge, too. I can't
speak to other hormones in milk because it never occurred to me to
investigate being that I don't drink enough of it to be concerned.

j
"Perple Gyrl" wrote in message
...
I stopped drinking milk about 5 years ago. Prior to that, I would drink
2-3
gallons a week by myself. Within a couple of months of stopping, my face
cleared up considerably and I wasn't nearly as bloated. I used to have
terrible cystic acne due to my pcos. Not drinking that stuff helped me
clear it up. I avoid it now, except when it is occassionally an
ingrediant
in something I am eating (i.e. low calorie dessert bars, etc.).

I never knew that about the growth hormones! I do know that I did grow up
pretty tall and big boned in a short family. I wonder if excess milk
consumption during childhood contributed to that. I am a bit over 5'9, my
sister and mom are 5'5 and my dad is 5'10. I am the tallest female on
both
sides of my family and I have a ton of cousins. No one knows where I got
the height from.

"That T Woman" wrote in message

In cow's milk you have all kinds of hormones that are given to the cows
and
pass through in the milk. I was reading on another fitness related
newsgroup and the guys were discussing how you can get really huge
(hooge
I
think is how they put it) by drinking a gallon of whole milk a day not
just
from the calories but also from the growth hormones. Soy milk doesn't
have
those things in it. I can't drink cow milk or most other dairy products
because they cause too much phlegm production in my sinuses. I don't
know
what component in cow milk causes that but it's a severe reaction in me
that
I go out of my way to avoid.

Tonia

On 3/16/2004 10:58 AM, Julianne wrote:
My understanding is that growth hormone, like insulin, will be completely
broken down by the digestive process which is why growth hormone (and
insulin) must be injected to bypass the normal digestion process.

There are not studies that show that. They (Monsanto, USDA, etc.)
*assume* that it will. They never actually proved it or really bothered
to do much testing on it at all.

I don't
drink milk because of an allergy but I suspect that if I drank a gallon of
milk a day (and didn't lose my cookies), I would be hooge, too. I can't
speak to other hormones in milk because it never occurred to me to
investigate being that I don't drink enough of it to be concerned.

j
"Perple Gyrl" wrote in message
...

I stopped drinking milk about 5 years ago. Prior to that, I would drink

2-3

gallons a week by myself. Within a couple of months of stopping, my face
cleared up considerably and I wasn't nearly as bloated. I used to have
terrible cystic acne due to my pcos. Not drinking that stuff helped me
clear it up. I avoid it now, except when it is occassionally an

ingrediant

in something I am eating (i.e. low calorie dessert bars, etc.).

I never knew that about the growth hormones! I do know that I did grow up
pretty tall and big boned in a short family. I wonder if excess milk
consumption during childhood contributed to that. I am a bit over 5'9, my
sister and mom are 5'5 and my dad is 5'10. I am the tallest female on

both

sides of my family and I have a ton of cousins. No one knows where I got
the height from.

"That T Woman" wrote in message


In cow's milk you have all kinds of hormones that are given to the cows

and

pass through in the milk. I was reading on another fitness related
newsgroup and the guys were discussing how you can get really huge

(hooge

I

think is how they put it) by drinking a gallon of whole milk a day not

just

from the calories but also from the growth hormones. Soy milk doesn't

have

those things in it. I can't drink cow milk or most other dairy products
because they cause too much phlegm production in my sinuses. I don't

know

what component in cow milk causes that but it's a severe reaction in me

that

I go out of my way to avoid.

Tonia








--
jmk in NC

I've drank more than 2 gallons a day in the past (that's how I got up to 240
lbs), and I don't think I was affected by any growth hormones that were
administered to the cows.

n = 1

--
Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little.

Becky P.

"Julianne" wrote in message
news:4vF5c.3537$F91.2103@lakeread05...
My understanding is that growth hormone, like insulin, will be completely
broken down by the digestive process which is why growth hormone (and
insulin) must be injected to bypass the normal digestion process. I don't
drink milk because of an allergy but I suspect that if I drank a gallon of
milk a day (and didn't lose my cookies), I would be hooge, too. I can't
speak to other hormones in milk because it never occurred to me to
investigate being that I don't drink enough of it to be concerned.

j
"Perple Gyrl" wrote in message
...
I stopped drinking milk about 5 years ago. Prior to that, I would drink
2-3
gallons a week by myself. Within a couple of months of stopping, my
face
cleared up considerably and I wasn't nearly as bloated. I used to have
terrible cystic acne due to my pcos. Not drinking that stuff helped me
clear it up. I avoid it now, except when it is occassionally an
ingrediant
in something I am eating (i.e. low calorie dessert bars, etc.).

I never knew that about the growth hormones! I do know that I did grow
up
pretty tall and big boned in a short family. I wonder if excess milk
consumption during childhood contributed to that. I am a bit over 5'9,
my
sister and mom are 5'5 and my dad is 5'10. I am the tallest female on
both
sides of my family and I have a ton of cousins. No one knows where I
got
the height from.

"That T Woman" wrote in message

In cow's milk you have all kinds of hormones that are given to the
cows
and
pass through in the milk. I was reading on another fitness related
newsgroup and the guys were discussing how you can get really huge
(hooge
I
think is how they put it) by drinking a gallon of whole milk a day not
just
from the calories but also from the growth hormones. Soy milk doesn't
have
those things in it. I can't drink cow milk or most other dairy
products
because they cause too much phlegm production in my sinuses. I don't
know
what component in cow milk causes that but it's a severe reaction in
me
that
I go out of my way to avoid.

Tonia

"Diarmid Logan" wrote in

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3509792.stm
'Put fat children on Atkins diet'

Per JAMA 2003 Aug 912-20
They (John Hopkins) took 141 kids with seizure disorders into the study,
mean age was approx 5-6 yo. Findings were that a high fat ketogenic diet
produced significant increase in the atherogenic apoB-containing proteins
and a decrease in antiartherogenic HDL cholesterol.

Just one study, and I'm hoping they mean a high percentage of calories came
from fats, not that they were feeding the kids diets of whale blubber or
anything ;-)

Of course, some argument can be made that Atkins is probably better than all
the refined sugar and transfats the fat kid might have eaten to get that
way. Diabetes Type 2 is on the rise in kids, a disease we are more used to
seeing onset in 40 year olds.

It all boils down to the same old same old. Calories in = Calories out and
we have no weight gain. Kids need more physical activity and less high
fructose corn syrup. Kids are not "little adults" and their ideal
nutritional needs are not exactly identical to ours.
Nonscientific, but I did not see the level of "fatness" in Europe that I am
noticing here in the USA.

Doug Freyburger wrote or quoted:

A lie is when someone tells a falsehood that they know is false.
A mistake is when someone tells a falsehood that they beleive to be
Read the book, Tim, and stop the mistakes. Because now you
have been told so from here on out if you continue to misrepresent
what Atkins actualyl is, you'll be lying.

Shanghai'd by the Atkins zombie hordes ;-)

Don't take it from me:

``[Dr. Atkins' dietetic revolution: a critique]

[...]

The diet, though far from good, is better than the book. ATKINS'
theories are at best half-truths, and the results he claims lack
credibility. The obese subject's disappointment with traditional
reducing diets and the book's hard-sell style account for ATKINS'
success.''

- http://calorierestriction.org/pmid/?n=897645

....

....and this - on how well researched the diet has been:

``A randomized trial of a low-carbohydrate diet for obesity

Despite the popularity of the low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat
(Atkins) diet, no randomized, controlled trials have evaluated its
efficacy. [...] The low-carbohydrate diet produced a greater weight loss
(absolute difference, approximately 4 percent) than did the conventional
diet for the first six months, but the differences were not significant
at one year. The low-carbohydrate diet was associated with a greater
improvement in some risk factors for coronary heart disease. Adherence
was poor and attrition was high in both groups. Longer and larger
studies are required to determine the long-term safety and efficacy
of low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diets.''

- http://calorierestriction.org/pmid/?n=12761365

Experiment on yourselves by all means - but don't claim afterwards
nobody warned you - and maybe hold off putting kids on the diet until
it has been better researched.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.

Patricia Heil wrote in message ...
How stupid can it get!!! Get them out the door to exercise
and don't take them to McDonald's and make them eat fruit
instead of chips. There is not long-term data on Atkins
and it's dangerous to do something to kids that isn't
adequately tested on adults.

That didn't stop anyone from putting children on low-fat diets.

brian
290/228/210
july 8, 2003

Tim Tyler wrote in message ...
In sci.life-extension Mark D. wrote or quoted:
My impression is that Atkins diet restricts carbohydrates - but not
fat or protein. So people eat more fat and protein to make up
for the lack of carbohydrates.
The Atkins diet appears to be a bad one :-| People should be encouraged
to eat more fruit and vegetables - not to replace them with animal fat.

I'm eating the exact same amount of fat and protien as I did before
the diet. The only things I'm doing different:

I stopped all refined sugar.
I removed some fruits but not all.
I stopped all refined flour and only eat small amounts of whole wheat.
I stopped all white rice (i don't like wild rice).
I stopped all potatos and generally replaced them with vegitables.

That change made me lose 60 pounds in five months with no significant
exercise. I have maybe 10 or 20 to go which I'm having a hard time
losing because my calories are too high. My weight has been stable
for four months now. I plan to start running again when the snow/ice
clears, which I expect will make me lose the rest in 3 months or so.
I tried to start running again when I was 290. I got about 100 feet
and felt like I was going to die. One flight of stairs was enough to
make me out of breath. The other night, I ran a mile without
stopping.

Tonight, I'm going to a steak house chain to eat a 16 ounce steak and
vegies, plus a salad with no dressing. How is this not healthy?
Because I didn't eat two loaves of bread with it? or three mugs of
coke? Or a giant baked potato?

When I get to my goal weight, I'll eat just enough carbs to keep me
out of ketosis.

44" to 36" waist, 3xlt to lt shirt size, 30 point blood pressure drop,
186 cholesterol, and I can run again. I'm never going back.

brian
290/228/210
july 8, 2003