Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma

Jonathan Ball wrote in message link.net...
Chelsea O'HIVdrip wrote:

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
.net...

pearl wrote:


Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma
Meat, Saturated Fat, Dairy May Raise Risk
By Daniel DeNoon
Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD
WebMD Medical News
3-24-4
..

"What we found is if a person has a higher intake of animal protein,
they will have a higher risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma," Zheng tells
Web. "And people who have a higher intake of saturated fat have
an increased risk. On the other hand, if you have higher-than-average
intake of dietary fiber -- particularly if you frequently eat vegetables
and fruits with a high fiber content -- you have a reduced risk of
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma."

The findings appear in the March 1 issue of the American Journal
of Epidemiology.

Earlier studies hinted at the same thing. Now, Zheng says, it
seems clear that a major factor in the mysterious rise of
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma is a diet high in meat, saturated fats,
dairy products, and eggs and low in fiber, fruits, and vegetables.

Diets that are moderate in meat, saturated fats, dairy
products and eggs are not linked with non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma.

[snip waffle]

Nothing in that about non-Hodgkins lymphoma, O'HIVdrip.


"vegan" diets are linked with B-12 deficiency.


Cobalt and B12 deficient soil, and the use of antibiotics is.




No. "vegan" diets, if followed without the use of
supplements, invariably lead to B-12 and other
deficiencies.



Proof?

On 27 Mar 2004 09:05:31 -0800, (jpatti) posted:

"Moosh" wrote in message . ..

Where did you see this? The local newspaper? No reputable nutritionist
has ever advocated this. They all advocate a balanced diet of
wholefoods. Well the eputable ones do.

What "balanced" means can vary tremendously depending on individuals
though.

Nope. Look it up in the dictionary. It means "providing all the
necessary nutrients for a healthy body"

For instance, the ADA diet is *extremely* "unbalanced" for diabetics,

Hopefully not, or diabetics would become malnourished on it.
Maybe it is not ideal for an impaired glucose metabolism.

yet is generally recommended by repoutable nutritionists in spite of
the fact that high blood sugars have more serious health repercussions
than any of the supposed negative effects from high dietary fat
intake.

All sane advice to diabetics (several different diseases) is designed
to keep their blood glucose levels within normal range. Apparently
much institutional advice from UK and USA is insane.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:07:22 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

So we have an increased risk observed for higher consumption
of white bread, but a significantly reduced risk observed for
dark bread - both high in carbohydrates. So it can't be the
carbohydrate in bread that increases risk, but the form in
which it's consumed- wholegrain (inc. fibre and nutrients) or
refined (stripped of fibre and valuable nutrients). 'a significantly
reduced risk was observed for a greater intake of dietary fiber'
(helps peristalsis), while white bread contributes to constipation,
so,- that improperly digested putrefying meat sits in the colon
moving through ever-so-slowly, (as opposed to moving through
at a steadyish rate), as toxins are absorbed into the bloodstream.

White breads are not all the same. Some are high fibre and all in
Australia have good levels of micronutrients.

And what toxins are absorbed from the large intestine?

"Moosh" wrote in message . ..
On 27 Mar 2004 09:05:31 -0800, (jpatti) posted:

"Moosh" wrote in message . ..

What "balanced" means can vary tremendously depending on individuals
though.

Nope. Look it up in the dictionary. It means "providing all the
necessary nutrients for a healthy body"

Which comes to the same thing since the necessary nutrients for a
healthy body vary depending on individual biochemistry.

For instance, the ADA diet is *extremely* "unbalanced" for diabetics,

Hopefully not, or diabetics would become malnourished on it.

Diabetics *die* on it.

Maybe it is not ideal for an impaired glucose metabolism.

The ADA diet is intended *for* diabetics, that's what the "D" is.

yet is generally recommended by repoutable nutritionists in spite of
the fact that high blood sugars have more serious health repercussions
than any of the supposed negative effects from high dietary fat
intake.

All sane advice to diabetics (several different diseases) is designed
to keep their blood glucose levels within normal range. Apparently
much institutional advice from UK and USA is insane.

Agreed.

"Moosh" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:07:22 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

So we have an increased risk observed for higher consumption
of white bread, but a significantly reduced risk observed for
dark bread - both high in carbohydrates. So it can't be the
carbohydrate in bread that increases risk, but the form in
which it's consumed- wholegrain (inc. fibre and nutrients) or
refined (stripped of fibre and valuable nutrients). 'a significantly
reduced risk was observed for a greater intake of dietary fiber'
(helps peristalsis), while white bread contributes to constipation,
so,- that improperly digested putrefying meat sits in the colon
moving through ever-so-slowly, (as opposed to moving through
at a steadyish rate), as toxins are absorbed into the bloodstream.

White breads are not all the same. Some are high fibre and all in
Australia have good levels of micronutrients.

And what toxins are absorbed from the large intestine?

Toxins produced from improperly digested animal protein.

'Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid
in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous
bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with
food in the stomach, while humans have a pH 4 to 5.
http://www.b-naturals.com/win00.htm

''According to Harper's Biochemistry, the putrefaction bacteria
in the large intestine convert amino acids from undigested protein
into toxic amines or ptomaines, such as cadaverine (from lysine),
agmatine (from arginine), tyramine (from tyroseine), putrescine
(from orithine) and histamine (from histidine). And these amines
are "powerful vasopressor substances". Tryptophan undergoes a
series of reactions to form indole and methylindole (skatole), which
produces the distinctive putrefying faecal smell of a high protein diet.
The sulphur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are
transformed into mercaptans such as ethyl and methyl mercaptan
as well as hydrogen sulphide (H2S). All these compounds are very
poisonous and unpleasant. Phosphatidylcholine, only found in meats,
breaks down into choline and the related toxic amines such as neurine. ..

... plant protein is less digestible .. because it is found in the tough
cellulose walls of plant cells which pass through the gut undigested
if not sufficiently masticated. These proteins are not available as
soil for putrefying bacteria in the bowel. Animal protein wastes are
highly bioavailable to putrefying bowel bacteria since they have no
cellulose cell wall.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200304180...mc/protein.htm

'Because waste products such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia,
histamines, phenols and indoles are toxic, the body's defense
mechanisms try to eliminate them by releasing neutrophils (a
type of leukocyte, or white corpuscle). These neutrophils
produce active oxygen, oddball oxygen molecules that are
capable of scavenging disintegrating tissues by gathering
electrons from the molecules of toxic cells.

Problems arise, however, when too many of these active oxygen
molecules, or free radicals, are produced in the body. They are
extremely reactive and can also attach themselves to normal, healthy
cells and damage them genetically. These active oxygen radicals steal
electrons from normal, healthy biological molecules. This electron
theft by active oxygen oxidizes tissue and can cause disease.

OXODIZED TISSUE LEADS TO:

Liver - Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer

Pancreas - Pancreatitis, diabetes, cancer

Kidney - Nephritis, nephrosis, cancer

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/alkalinewater.html

new age hippie foot masseuse wrote:
So we have an increased risk observed for higher consumption
of white bread, but a significantly reduced risk observed for
dark bread - both high in carbohydrates. So it can't be the
carbohydrate in bread that increases risk, but the form in
which it's consumed- wholegrain (inc. fibre and nutrients) or
refined (stripped of fibre and valuable nutrients). 'a significantly
reduced risk was observed for a greater intake of dietary fiber'
(helps peristalsis), while white bread contributes to constipation,
so,- that improperly digested putrefying meat sits in the colon
moving through ever-so-slowly, (as opposed to moving through
at a steadyish rate), as toxins are absorbed into the bloodstream.

White breads are not all the same. Some are high fibre and all in
Australia have good levels of micronutrients.

And what toxins are absorbed from the large intestine?

Toxins produced from improperly digested animal protein.

Bacteria in the large intestine create byproducts regardless of what's being
digested. That's part of metabolism whether the organism is single-celled like
those bacteria or multi-celled like humans.

'Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid
in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous
bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with
food in the stomach, while humans have a pH 4 to 5.
http://www.b-naturals.com/win00.htm

Berte's Holistic Products for Dogs and Cats??? WTF kind of source is that,
Lesley? BTW, update your source. The link you provided redirects to a news page
on that site.

''According to Harper's Biochemistry, the putrefaction bacteria
in the large intestine convert amino acids from undigested protein
into toxic amines or ptomaines, such as cadaverine (from lysine),
agmatine (from arginine), tyramine (from tyroseine), putrescine
(from orithine) and histamine (from histidine). And these amines
are "powerful vasopressor substances". Tryptophan undergoes a
series of reactions to form indole and methylindole (skatole), which
produces the distinctive putrefying faecal smell of a high protein diet.
The sulphur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are
transformed into mercaptans such as ethyl and methyl mercaptan
as well as hydrogen sulphide (H2S). All these compounds are very
poisonous and unpleasant. Phosphatidylcholine, only found in meats,
breaks down into choline and the related toxic amines such as neurine. ..

.. plant protein is less digestible .. because it is found in the tough
cellulose walls of plant cells which pass through the gut undigested
if not sufficiently masticated. These proteins are not available as
soil for putrefying bacteria in the bowel. Animal protein wastes are
highly bioavailable to putrefying bowel bacteria since they have no
cellulose cell wall.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200304180...mc/protein.htm

Note to other groups: Lesley (aka "pearl") often resorts to this VEGAN
MOTORCYCLIST website for support of her claims. It lacks scientific credibility,
and so does she.

'Because waste products such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia,
histamines, phenols and indoles are toxic, the body's defense
mechanisms try to eliminate them by releasing neutrophils (a
type of leukocyte, or white corpuscle). These neutrophils
produce active oxygen, oddball oxygen molecules that are
capable of scavenging disintegrating tissues by gathering
electrons from the molecules of toxic cells.

Problems arise, however, when too many of these active oxygen
molecules, or free radicals, are produced in the body. They are
extremely reactive and can also attach themselves to normal, healthy
cells and damage them genetically. These active oxygen radicals steal
electrons from normal, healthy biological molecules. This electron
theft by active oxygen oxidizes tissue and can cause disease.

OXODIZED TISSUE LEADS TO:

Liver - Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer

Pancreas - Pancreatitis, diabetes, cancer

Kidney - Nephritis, nephrosis, cancer

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/alkalinewater.html

As President of the North American Institute for the Advancement of
Colon Therapy and owner of his own clinic for the past 25 years, Dr.
Wolfe has developed a self-help strategy for health regeneration that is
on the leading edge of today's holistic health care field....

Dr. Wolfe holds a PhD in Nutritional Philosophy, and a Doctorate in
Homeopathic Acupuncture. He is a Registered Massage Therapist, Deep
Muscle Therapist, Certified Colon Therapist, and Nutritional Consultant.
As well, for the past 14 years, he has operated a Correspondence School
for Deep Tissue Massage.

*Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack!*

unhinged "usual suspect" wrote in message ...

pearl wrote:
So we have an increased risk observed for higher consumption
of white bread, but a significantly reduced risk observed for
dark bread - both high in carbohydrates. So it can't be the
carbohydrate in bread that increases risk, but the form in
which it's consumed- wholegrain (inc. fibre and nutrients) or
refined (stripped of fibre and valuable nutrients). 'a significantly
reduced risk was observed for a greater intake of dietary fiber'
(helps peristalsis), while white bread contributes to constipation,
so,- that improperly digested putrefying meat sits in the colon
moving through ever-so-slowly, (as opposed to moving through
at a steadyish rate), as toxins are absorbed into the bloodstream.

White breads are not all the same. Some are high fibre and all in
Australia have good levels of micronutrients.

And what toxins are absorbed from the large intestine?

Toxins produced from improperly digested animal protein.

Bacteria in the large intestine create byproducts regardless of what's being
digested. That's part of metabolism whether the organism is single-celled like
those bacteria or multi-celled like humans.

See below.

'Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid
in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous
bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with
food in the stomach, while humans have a pH 4 to 5.
http://www.b-naturals.com/win00.htm

Berte's Holistic Products for Dogs and Cats??? WTF kind of source is that,
Lesley? BTW, update your source. The link you provided redirects to a news page
on that site.

No matter. Show otherwise if you can.

''According to Harper's Biochemistry, the putrefaction bacteria
in the large intestine convert amino acids from undigested protein
into toxic amines or ptomaines, such as cadaverine (from lysine),
agmatine (from arginine), tyramine (from tyroseine), putrescine
(from orithine) and histamine (from histidine). And these amines
are "powerful vasopressor substances". Tryptophan undergoes a
series of reactions to form indole and methylindole (skatole), which
produces the distinctive putrefying faecal smell of a high protein diet.
The sulphur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are
transformed into mercaptans such as ethyl and methyl mercaptan
as well as hydrogen sulphide (H2S). All these compounds are very
poisonous and unpleasant. Phosphatidylcholine, only found in meats,
breaks down into choline and the related toxic amines such as neurine. ..

.. plant protein is less digestible .. because it is found in the tough
cellulose walls of plant cells which pass through the gut undigested
if not sufficiently masticated. These proteins are not available as
soil for putrefying bacteria in the bowel. Animal protein wastes are
highly bioavailable to putrefying bowel bacteria since they have no
cellulose cell wall.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200304180...mc/protein.htm

Note to other groups: Lesley (aka "pearl") often resorts to this VEGAN
MOTORCYCLIST website for support of her claims. It lacks scientific credibility,
and so does she.

Ad hominem. Show otherwise if you can.

'Because waste products such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia,
histamines, phenols and indoles are toxic, the body's defense
mechanisms try to eliminate them by releasing neutrophils (a
type of leukocyte, or white corpuscle). These neutrophils
produce active oxygen, oddball oxygen molecules that are
capable of scavenging disintegrating tissues by gathering
electrons from the molecules of toxic cells.

Problems arise, however, when too many of these active oxygen
molecules, or free radicals, are produced in the body. They are
extremely reactive and can also attach themselves to normal, healthy
cells and damage them genetically. These active oxygen radicals steal
electrons from normal, healthy biological molecules. This electron
theft by active oxygen oxidizes tissue and can cause disease.

OXODIZED TISSUE LEADS TO:

Liver - Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer

Pancreas - Pancreatitis, diabetes, cancer

Kidney - Nephritis, nephrosis, cancer

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/alkalinewater.html

As President of the North American Institute for the Advancement of
Colon Therapy and owner of his own clinic for the past 25 years, Dr.
Wolfe has developed a self-help strategy for health regeneration that is
on the leading edge of today's holistic health care field....

Dr. Wolfe holds a PhD in Nutritional Philosophy, and a Doctorate in
Homeopathic Acupuncture. He is a Registered Massage Therapist, Deep
Muscle Therapist, Certified Colon Therapist, and Nutritional Consultant.
As well, for the past 14 years, he has operated a Correspondence School
for Deep Tissue Massage.

Ad hominem. Show otherwise if you can.

*Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack!*

goes the Quackpot.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:53:14 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

"Luna" wrote in message
...
In article , "pearl"
wrote:

A good quality veg*n diet would be healthier and if it's
weight that concerns you;

A vegan diet may very well be healthy for some people, maybe even for me.
I used to be semi-vegetarian, I ate fish but not too frequently. Anyway,
the problem was that I ate too much pasta and bread on that diet,

That can happen, and when eaten in excess,

So can anything. Eating in excess is surely agreed to be a bad thing?

can produce a craving
as well as allergic response (headaches, tiredness, fuzzy-headedness,
abdominal discomfort, bloating, tinnitus (referred) [especially with,
wheat-bran, shredded wheat, and weetabix, ..

Evidence? Or is this just personal opinion?

all of which are highly
abrasive to the colon, especially the ileo-caecal valve, situated
between the small and large intestine- just above the appendix]).

Nonsense. We've evolved to eat such things.

because vegetables alone didn't fill me up.

Nuts, seeds, legumes, cereals, sweet fruits, roots, leafy greens, rice?

But the pasta and bread didn't fill me up either!

Wholegrain or refined?

I could eat unlimited quantities of starchy foods, seemingly,
and never feel satiated.

You may have been missing out some higher protein plant-foods.

(Were you drinking 'diet' cokes, etc?).

Eliminating those foods has made it a lot easier
to eat less, and I feel a lot better too.

For cutting out all the wheat, no doubt.

Meat is a nutritionally dense
food, meat eating animals don't need to eat nearly as frequently to survive
as plant eating animals do.

Meat is a high protein food, in fact so high that it's unhealthy for us.

More nonsense! Do you regard eggs as unhealthy?

Otherwise, plant foods are far richer than meat in most nutrients,
and we can obtain all the essential nutrients we require, in suitable
and balanced amounts; sans all the unhealthy anti-nutrients in meat.

What ARE you talking about?

I think one of the things that gets missed in
the debate about low-carb diets is that for the people who respond well to
it, you end up eating less overall than before.

The conclusion in the in-depth documentary I saw, was that protein
satiates appetite very quickly. But you could just as easily eat plant
foods that are high in protein, such as nuts and legumes, also rice.

Potatoes are the most satiating, when you measure it scientifically.

If I look at my diet now as
compared to before (not the semi-vegetarian phase, but before that) I am
eating less meat and dairy now, and more green veggies. I have a salad and
some broccoli instead of a butter laden potato with my meat, for example,
and the meat portion is usually much smaller than it was before. So even
though meat may be a higher _percentage_ of my diet now, the actual
quantities are _lower_.

So you're eating less, all in all.

Also, I'd like to see a study about moderate
protein, high fat diets where sugar and starches are at a minimum, to see
if any health problems come from that. Because I'd wager it's the
combination of high fat AND high carb that causes health problems, not one
or the other. If you study people who eat an excessive amount of meat, but
they're also eating an excessive amount of sugar, then you can't know which
excess is the culprit for the health problems, or if it's excessiveness in
general that is the problem.

Ketogenic Diets
http://www.ecologos.org/keto.htm

High-protein diets not proven effective and may pose health risks
http://www.americanheart.org/present...entifier=11103

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:29:57 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

A gain of _60 to 80 pounds of fluid_ in *nine days* -in hospital-?

That's what worried me. I couldn't imagine a hospital team allowing
this.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:04:23 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

From; 'The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA

Trace Elements.
Parts per million
Dry matter

Vegetable: Cobalt
Snap Beans
Organic 0.26
Non-organic 0
Cabbage
Organic 0.15
Non-organic 0
Lettuce
Organic 0.19
Non-organic 0
Tomatoes
Organic 0.63
Non-organic 0
Spinach
Organic 0.25
Non-organic 0.2

http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/wh...whyorganic.htm


This is an extremely poor reference source.

The cobalt in plants depends on the cobalt in the soils. Many
conventional ag soils are rich in cobalt, and when grazing animals the
cobalt, if low, will be ammended. Organic methods preclude all of this
ammendment and so, on average, organic grown will be lower in cobalt.

Try a more balanced reference like USDA or similar.