National Weight Control Registry does not account low carb dieters properly

Ignoramus19594 wrote:
:: I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .
::
:: They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out how I lost
:: weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over dieting
:: etc.
::
:: I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect that a
:: successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat. Questions like
:: this: During your weight loss, did you
::
:: yes no
:: [ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home
::

You should answer NO and be sure to point out that you lost 50 or so lbs and
have kept it off.

You'll fowl up their data....

:: That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could see, that
:: would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for example,
:: During your weight loss, did you
::
:: yes no
:: [ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home
::
:: Such a question was not present.
::
:: So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these questionnaires, he
:: would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
:: high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able to
:: conclude that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping high carb
:: foods out of home", even if that was true, simply because there was
:: no question for it.
::
:: I am now a little bit more skeptical about their conclusions
:: regarding what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire like
:: this, mistakes in making conclusions are inevitable.
::
:: i

"Ignoramus19594" wrote in message
...
I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .

They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out how I lost
weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over dieting
etc.

I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect that a
successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat. Questions like
this: During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home

That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could see, that
would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for example,
During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home

Such a question was not present.

So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these questionnaires, he
would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able to conclude
that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping high carb foods out of
home", even if that was true, simply because there was no question for
it.

I am now a little bit more skeptical about their conclusions regarding
what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire like this, mistakes
in making conclusions are inevitable.

i

When I was in high school, our social studies teacher stressed many
times that studies could be manipulated to reflect many different outcomes.
One of the points she used as an extreme was to say that concentrating on
only certain aspects could make anyone reading a report or graph come to
conclusions that don't make any sense. Here's one, "Based on our research,
it was found that 97% of all criminals ate bread either the day of, or the
day before their crimes." Here's another of a different kind of
manipulation that could possibly be used in news reports of an athletic
event where say, an American won silver and a Russian won bronze with 6
competitors. "Today, in the hurdles event, Russia won 3rd place, and the
U.S. came in 4th from last." Both of these examples could be considered
"true" according to the findings because so much information was left out.
Just recently, I was involved in a study through my job that was trying
to find the correlation between arterial fat build-up and genetics. Their
theory is that if your good genetics allows a 20% or more stretch of your
endothelium during exercise or stress, you have a lower chance of fatty
plaques sticking to arterial walls because of the constant movement (a
rolling stone gathers no moss, I guess). That seems like a valid research
assignment to me. Here's the problem that I can see. The study is funded by
Parke-Davis Pharmaceuticals and the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation.
The questionnaire they gave all of us was geared to find out how much fat
was in our diets. I was told that the study is being done to show that even
though a person has poor genetics, they can reduce the amount of plaque
build-up through proper diet. Pamphlets were also given out with their
logos(Heart and Stroke), showing proper food choices, which were of course
Canada food guide principles of about 60% carbohydrates from healthy foods
like whole grains and veggies,potatoes, pastas, etc., which are all no/low
fat. I can't imagine what the conclusions will be. This was 5 years ago when
the study started. Every year they call and ask if my weight or stress level
has changed. This year when they called, I told them my weight had gone
lower and that it was due from a low carb diet. There was a lengthy pause
and then she said, "Yeah, a lot of the nurses around here are doing the same
thing, but just make sure that when your done, you go back to eating
properly." Now that my gut feeling says I'm eating properly, I think the
study is going in the wrong direction, and I told them that. She then told
me the study is about genetic endothelium and the end results should still
be o.k. as long as I go back to eating the right way. It will be interesting
to see what the conclusions are in another 5 years when the study is
complete. I don't think I will sign up for any more of these.
Tom
210/180/180

"Ignoramus19594" wrote in message
...
I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .

They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out how I lost
weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over dieting
etc.

I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect that a
successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat. Questions like
this: During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home

That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could see, that
would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for example,
During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home

Such a question was not present.

So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these questionnaires, he
would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able to conclude
that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping high carb foods out of
home", even if that was true, simply because there was no question for
it.

I am now a little bit more skeptical about their conclusions regarding
what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire like this, mistakes
in making conclusions are inevitable.

i

When I was in high school, our social studies teacher stressed many
times that studies could be manipulated to reflect many different outcomes.
One of the points she used as an extreme was to say that concentrating on
only certain aspects could make anyone reading a report or graph come to
conclusions that don't make any sense. Here's one, "Based on our research,
it was found that 97% of all criminals ate bread either the day of, or the
day before their crimes." Here's another of a different kind of
manipulation that could possibly be used in news reports of an athletic
event where say, an American won silver and a Russian won bronze with 6
competitors. "Today, in the hurdles event, Russia won 3rd place, and the
U.S. came in 4th from last." Both of these examples could be considered
"true" according to the findings because so much information was left out.
Just recently, I was involved in a study through my job that was trying
to find the correlation between arterial fat build-up and genetics. Their
theory is that if your good genetics allows a 20% or more stretch of your
endothelium during exercise or stress, you have a lower chance of fatty
plaques sticking to arterial walls because of the constant movement (a
rolling stone gathers no moss, I guess). That seems like a valid research
assignment to me. Here's the problem that I can see. The study is funded by
Parke-Davis Pharmaceuticals and the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation.
The questionnaire they gave all of us was geared to find out how much fat
was in our diets. I was told that the study is being done to show that even
though a person has poor genetics, they can reduce the amount of plaque
build-up through proper diet. Pamphlets were also given out with their
logos(Heart and Stroke), showing proper food choices, which were of course
Canada food guide principles of about 60% carbohydrates from healthy foods
like whole grains and veggies,potatoes, pastas, etc., which are all no/low
fat. I can't imagine what the conclusions will be. This was 5 years ago when
the study started. Every year they call and ask if my weight or stress level
has changed. This year when they called, I told them my weight had gone
lower and that it was due from a low carb diet. There was a lengthy pause
and then she said, "Yeah, a lot of the nurses around here are doing the same
thing, but just make sure that when your done, you go back to eating
properly." Now that my gut feeling says I'm eating properly, I think the
study is going in the wrong direction, and I told them that. She then told
me the study is about genetic endothelium and the end results should still
be o.k. as long as I go back to eating the right way. It will be interesting
to see what the conclusions are in another 5 years when the study is
complete. I don't think I will sign up for any more of these.
Tom
210/180/180

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message ...
Ignoramus19594 wrote:
:: I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .
::
:: They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out how I lost
:: weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over dieting
:: etc.
::
:: I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect that a
:: successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat. Questions like
:: this: During your weight loss, did you
::
:: yes no
:: [ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home
::

You should answer NO and be sure to point out that you lost 50 or so lbs and
have kept it off.

You'll fowl up their data....

:: That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could see, that
:: would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for example,
:: During your weight loss, did you
::
:: yes no
:: [ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home
::
:: Such a question was not present.
::
:: So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these questionnaires, he
:: would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
:: high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able to
:: conclude that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping high carb
:: foods out of home", even if that was true, simply because there was
:: no question for it.
::
:: I am now a little bit more skeptical about their conclusions
:: regarding what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire like
:: this, mistakes in making conclusions are inevitable.
::
:: i

National Weight Control Registry

http://www.uchsc.edu/nutrition/WyattJortberg/nwcr.htm

James O. Hill, PhD
Rena Wing, PhD

*********
James O. Hill, Ph.D., Professor of Pediatrics and Director, Center for
Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center,
Denver, CO. Research support from Amgen, Hoffman-LaRoche, Procter &
Gamble, and Knoll Pharmaceuticals; has received consultant fees from
Knoll, Roche Laboratories, International Life Sciences Institute, and
Procter & Gamble and is a consultant to the Duke Diet and Fitness
Center. (Newark Star-Ledger, 2/17/97). President, North American
Association for the Study of Obesity. (USA Today, 9/1/98) Lead author
of a study on olestra supported by a grant from Procter & Gamble. (Am.
J. Clin. Nutr. 1998;67:1178-85) Co-wrote (with Barbara Rolls) a 1998
report for ILSI on "Carbohydrates and Weight Management." Participated
in a 3/25/99 panel assembled by the Sugar Association to inform New
York magazine editors about obesity, calories, and activity. (Sugar
Association's 1999 annual report,
http://www.foodingredientsonline.com; accessed 03/30/99) Research on
the effects of covert substitution of olestra for conventional fat on
spontaneous food intake supported by Procter & Gamble. (Am. J. Clin.
Nutr. 1998;67:1178-85) Research on the role of carbohydrates in weight
management was supported by the Sugar Association. (Letter from Sugar
Association to USDA; on file with CSPI; 4/16/99) Research on using
Orlistat for weight maintenance funded by Hoffmann-La Roche. (Am. J.
Clin. Nutr. 1999;69:1108-16) Member of the Foodfit.com advisory board.
(http://www.foodfit.com/about/advisoryBoard.asp; accessed 11/11/00)
Research on weight management supported in part by Abbott
Laboratories. (J. Amer. Coll. Nutr. 2001;20:26-31) Member of the
McDonald's Corporation Global Advisory Council on Healthy Lifestyles;
formed to "help guide the company on activities that address the need
for balanced, healthy lifestyles."
(http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/p...003/05212003/;
accessed 6/23/03) Receives consulting fees from HealtheTech, Johnson &
Johnson, Procter & Gamble, and Coca-Cola. Receives speakers fees from
Abbott Laboratories, Roche Laboratories, and Kraft Foods. Receives
research funding from M&M Mars. (N. Engl. J. Med. 2003:348;2082-2090)
Member of the expert advisory board for the American Council for
Fitness and Nutrition. (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html;
accessed 10/31/03)

Rena R. Wing, Ph.D., U. of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. Consultant
to and received research support from Lilly Pharmaceuticals, is on
Weight Watchers Advisory Board; has received research support from
Ross Laboratories and ILSI. (Newark Star-Ledger, 2/17/97 notes Eli
Lilly, WW)

********

Interesting connections....

TC

tcomeau wrote:
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus19594 wrote:
I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .

They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out
how I
lost
weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over
dieting
etc.

I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect
that a
successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat.
Questions
like
this: During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home


You should answer NO and be sure to point out that you lost
50 or so
lbs and
have kept it off.

You'll fowl up their data....

That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could
see, that
would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for
example,
During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home

Such a question was not present.

So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these
questionnaires, he
would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was
keeping
high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able
to
conclude that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
high carb
foods out of home", even if that was true, simply because
there was
no question for it.

I am now a little bit more skeptical about their
conclusions
regarding what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire
like
this, mistakes in making conclusions are inevitable.

i

National Weight Control Registry

http://www.uchsc.edu/nutrition/WyattJortberg/nwcr.htm

James O. Hill, PhD
Rena Wing, PhD

*********
James O. Hill, Ph.D., Professor of Pediatrics and Director,
Center for
Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado Health Sciences
Center,
Denver, CO. Research support from Amgen, Hoffman-LaRoche,
Procter &
Gamble, and Knoll Pharmaceuticals; has received consultant
fees from
Knoll, Roche Laboratories, International Life Sciences
Institute, and
Procter & Gamble and is a consultant to the Duke Diet and
Fitness
Center. (Newark Star-Ledger, 2/17/97). President, North
American
Association for the Study of Obesity. (USA Today, 9/1/98) Lead
author
of a study on olestra supported by a grant from Procter &
Gamble. (Am.
J. Clin. Nutr. 1998;67:1178-85) Co-wrote (with Barbara Rolls)
a 1998
report for ILSI on "Carbohydrates and Weight Management."
Participated
in a 3/25/99 panel assembled by the Sugar Association to
inform New
York magazine editors about obesity, calories, and activity.
(Sugar
Association's 1999 annual report,
http://www.foodingredientsonline.com; accessed 03/30/99)
Research on
the effects of covert substitution of olestra for conventional
fat on
spontaneous food intake supported by Procter & Gamble. (Am. J.
Clin.
Nutr. 1998;67:1178-85) Research on the role of carbohydrates
in weight
management was supported by the Sugar Association. (Letter
from Sugar
Association to USDA; on file with CSPI; 4/16/99) Research on
using
Orlistat for weight maintenance funded by Hoffmann-La Roche.
(Am. J.
Clin. Nutr. 1999;69:1108-16) Member of the Foodfit.com
advisory board.
(http://www.foodfit.com/about/advisoryBoard.asp; accessed
11/11/00)
Research on weight management supported in part by Abbott
Laboratories. (J. Amer. Coll. Nutr. 2001;20:26-31) Member of
the
McDonald's Corporation Global Advisory Council on Healthy
Lifestyles;
formed to "help guide the company on activities that address
the need
for balanced, healthy lifestyles."
(http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/p...003/05212003/;
accessed 6/23/03) Receives consulting fees from HealtheTech,
Johnson &
Johnson, Procter & Gamble, and Coca-Cola. Receives speakers
fees from
Abbott Laboratories, Roche Laboratories, and Kraft Foods.
Receives
research funding from M&M Mars. (N. Engl. J. Med.
2003:348;2082-2090)
Member of the expert advisory board for the American Council
for
Fitness and Nutrition.
(http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html;
accessed 10/31/03)

Rena R. Wing, Ph.D., U. of Pittsburgh School of Medicine.
Consultant
to and received research support from Lilly Pharmaceuticals,
is on
Weight Watchers Advisory Board; has received research support
from
Ross Laboratories and ILSI. (Newark Star-Ledger, 2/17/97 notes
Eli
Lilly, WW)


Follow the money.... BJ

"Tom" wrote in message news:GRabd.711183$M95.177044@pd7tw1no...
"Ignoramus19594" wrote in message
...
I recently enrolled into NWCR http://www.nwcr.ws/ .

They sent me a questionnaire whose purpose is to find out how I lost
weight and how I am keeping it off, my level of stress over dieting
etc.

I was struck by how there are questions meant to detect that a
successful weight loss strategy involved reducing fat. Questions like
this: During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high fat foods out of your home

That sort of thing. There were no questions that I could see, that
would detect someone limiting their carbs. Such as, for example,
During your weight loss, did you

yes no
[ ] [ ] Keep high CARB foods out of your home

Such a question was not present.

So, if a researcher tabulates answers to these questionnaires, he
would say something like "a common weight loss strategy was keeping
high fat foods out of home". And yet, he would not be able to conclude
that "a common weight loss strategy was keeping high carb foods out of
home", even if that was true, simply because there was no question for
it.

I am now a little bit more skeptical about their conclusions regarding
what successful dieters do. With a questionnaire like this, mistakes
in making conclusions are inevitable.

i

When I was in high school, our social studies teacher stressed many
times that studies could be manipulated to reflect many different outcomes.
One of the points she used as an extreme was to say that concentrating on
only certain aspects could make anyone reading a report or graph come to
conclusions that don't make any sense. Here's one, "Based on our research,
it was found that 97% of all criminals ate bread either the day of, or the
day before their crimes." Here's another of a different kind of
manipulation that could possibly be used in news reports of an athletic
event where say, an American won silver and a Russian won bronze with 6
competitors. "Today, in the hurdles event, Russia won 3rd place, and the
U.S. came in 4th from last." Both of these examples could be considered
"true" according to the findings because so much information was left out.
Just recently, I was involved in a study through my job that was trying
to find the correlation between arterial fat build-up and genetics. Their
theory is that if your good genetics allows a 20% or more stretch of your
endothelium during exercise or stress, you have a lower chance of fatty
plaques sticking to arterial walls because of the constant movement (a
rolling stone gathers no moss, I guess). That seems like a valid research
assignment to me. Here's the problem that I can see. The study is funded by
Parke-Davis Pharmaceuticals and the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation.
The questionnaire they gave all of us was geared to find out how much fat
was in our diets. I was told that the study is being done to show that even
though a person has poor genetics, they can reduce the amount of plaque
build-up through proper diet. Pamphlets were also given out with their
logos(Heart and Stroke), showing proper food choices, which were of course
Canada food guide principles of about 60% carbohydrates from healthy foods
like whole grains and veggies,potatoes, pastas, etc., which are all no/low
fat. I can't imagine what the conclusions will be. This was 5 years ago when
the study started. Every year they call and ask if my weight or stress level
has changed. This year when they called, I told them my weight had gone
lower and that it was due from a low carb diet. There was a lengthy pause
and then she said, "Yeah, a lot of the nurses around here are doing the same
thing, but just make sure that when your done, you go back to eating
properly." Now that my gut feeling says I'm eating properly, I think the
study is going in the wrong direction, and I told them that. She then told
me the study is about genetic endothelium and the end results should still
be o.k. as long as I go back to eating the right way. It will be interesting
to see what the conclusions are in another 5 years when the study is
complete. I don't think I will sign up for any more of these.
Tom
210/180/180


The fact that National Weight Control Registry has been a biased sham
survey has been obvious for a long time. Even with the current high
interest in LC, it appears they have done nothing to change the survey
to try to find out the truth.

Plus, there is an inherent problem with any internet survey of this
type, which is the sample selection. When you rely on the internet
and word of mouth to get data it is highly susceptible to being
skewed, either inadvertently or deliberately.

Which is why many of us took a look at this and decided not to bother
participating.