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Incomplete Protein or Not?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 6th, 2005, 10:58 AM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


Double wrote:
http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com...s/protein.html

It says in the above link "the only problem is that vegetable sources of
protein, with the exception of soybeans, are not complete proteins, so you
need to eat more than one in order to get the complete protein." so, is
soy complete? what about chickpeas?


I learned the following about 30 years ago, so please take it with as many
grains of salt as is appropriate.

Yes. Soybeans are the only vegetable source of a complete protein as they
do contain all of the 8(?) essential amino acids and they are also in the
correct proportion required for them to create the remaining amino acids.
Thus, soybeans equate to a whole protein.

I don't know about chickpeas, but I doubt that they are a complete protein.

Donna


  #12  
Old December 6th, 2005, 04:28 PM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?

I know you just said to take it with a grain of salt, and i have. However I
just did a google newsgroup search and found alot of people who seem to say
it is incomplete and a handful of people who say it is complete. It's kind
of amazing that nobody seems to know the facts, or at least the contemporary
views, on this basic question.

"Donna Lantello" wrote in message
...

Double wrote:
http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com...s/protein.html

It says in the above link "the only problem is that vegetable sources of
protein, with the exception of soybeans, are not complete proteins, so
you need to eat more than one in order to get the complete protein." so,
is soy complete? what about chickpeas?


I learned the following about 30 years ago, so please take it with as many
grains of salt as is appropriate.

Yes. Soybeans are the only vegetable source of a complete protein as they
do contain all of the 8(?) essential amino acids and they are also in the
correct proportion required for them to create the remaining amino acids.
Thus, soybeans equate to a whole protein.

I don't know about chickpeas, but I doubt that they are a complete
protein.

Donna




  #13  
Old December 6th, 2005, 10:26 PM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


Double wrote:
I know you just said to take it with a grain of salt, and i have. However
I just did a google newsgroup search and found alot of people who seem to
say it is incomplete and a handful of people who say it is complete. It's
kind of amazing that nobody seems to know the facts, or at least the
contemporary views, on this basic question.

I wrote :

Double wrote:
http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com...s/protein.html

It says in the above link "the only problem is that vegetable sources of
protein, with the exception of soybeans, are not complete proteins, so
you need to eat more than one in order to get the complete protein." so,
is soy complete? what about chickpeas?


I learned the following about 30 years ago, so please take it with as
many grains of salt as is appropriate.

Yes. Soybeans are the only vegetable source of a complete protein as
they do contain all of the 8(?) essential amino acids and they are also
in the correct proportion required for them to create the remaining amino
acids. Thus, soybeans equate to a whole protein.

I don't know about chickpeas, but I doubt that they are a complete
protein.

Donna


Try the definition found in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

More specifically, this quote from the page:

"Soybeans are considered a source of complete protein, i.e., protein that
contains significant amounts of all the essential amino acids that must be
provided to the human body because of the body's inability to synthesize
them."

Donna


  #14  
Old December 6th, 2005, 11:25 PM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


Double wrote in message ...
I know you just said to take it with a grain of salt, and i have.

However I
just did a google newsgroup search and found alot of people who seem

to say
it is incomplete and a handful of people who say it is complete.

It's kind
of amazing that nobody seems to know the facts, or at least the

contemporary
views, on this basic question.

The definition of essential and nonessential (or more commonly now
indispensible and despensible) and thus the definition of whether a
protein is complete or incomplete is not such a clear cut issue as you
would like to make it. Metabolically speaking, only three of the amino
acids are indispensible in that the body could concievably manufacture
any of the other twenty in at least some quantity given the necessary
building blocks. Nutritionally speaking, all of the amino acids are
indispensible in that they are needed for good health.

Whether complete or incomplete proteins are being consumed is far less
important than the total amount of protein that is consumed. The WHO
estimates that to maintain nitrogen balance (a rough biomarker for
maintenance of lean body mass) the average adult requires 0.8g per kg
of body weight. Since in affluent societies protein does not come from
a single source, it is highly unlikely that any normally active
individual eating this recommended minimum amount of protein would be
deficient in any amino acid.

Given all this, I think the original question is foolish. Can an
individual meet all their need for amino acids by eating chickpeas
alone? No, and why would you want to? And even if a "just chickpea"
diet could meet all amino acid requirements there are a host of
mineral and vitamin deficiencies that would need to be addressed.
Whether one chooses to be vegetarian or not, the basic nutritional
advice of eating a well-balanced diet of a wide variety of foods is
sound.

  #15  
Old December 7th, 2005, 12:12 AM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


Matthew Venhaus wrote in message
...

Nutritionally speaking, all of the amino acids are
indispensible in that they are needed for good health.

This should say functionally speaking, rather than nutritionally
speaking.

  #16  
Old December 7th, 2005, 03:08 AM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


Double wrote in message news

---------- My yoga teacher says you need to mix beans with whole grain
rice in order to get a complete protein and a friend of mine said this is
not true and that you can get a complete protein from beans (she
specifically named chickpeas, and I have read online that soy can also
provide this). ---------------

Can an
individual meet all their need for amino acids by eating chickpeas
alone? No, and why would you want to? And even if a "just chickpea"
diet could meet all amino acid requirements there are a host of
mineral and vitamin deficiencies that would need to be addressed.
Whether one chooses to be vegetarian or not, the basic nutritional
advice of eating a well-balanced diet of a wide variety of foods is
sound.

  #17  
Old December 7th, 2005, 05:08 AM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?

The definition of essential and nonessential (or more commonly now
indispensible and despensible) and thus the definition of whether a
protein is complete or incomplete is not such a clear cut issue as you
would like to make it.


I'm not "making" this issue, this is an issue my yoga teacher brought to my
attention. She said that we should all be eating whole grains and beans
because beans alone are not a complate protein. My question is whether or
not this is true.

Metabolically speaking, only three of the amino
acids are indispensible in that the body could concievably manufacture
any of the other twenty in at least some quantity given the necessary
building blocks. Nutritionally speaking, all of the amino acids are
indispensible in that they are needed for good health.
Whether complete or incomplete proteins are being consumed is far less
important than the total amount of protein that is consumed.
The WHO
estimates that to maintain nitrogen balance (a rough biomarker for
maintenance of lean body mass) the average adult requires 0.8g per kg
of body weight. Since in affluent societies protein does not come from
a single source, it is highly unlikely that any normally active
individual eating this recommended minimum amount of protein would be
deficient in any amino acid.
Given all this, I think the original question is foolish.


Don't say my questions are foolish, because that's insulting. I could
easily say your response is that of a condescending prick, but that would be
insulting also wouldn't it. I truely don't understand the tangent you have
gone on into in responding to my question, but the question I had was very
simple, and I will repeat it:

---------- My yoga teacher says you need to mix beans with whole grain
rice in order to get a complete protein and a friend of mine said this is
not true and that you can get a complete protein from beans (she
specifically named chickpeas, and I have read online that soy can also
provide this). ---------------

Either the answer is that my yoga teacher is right or that my friend is
right. And if my friend is right, which ones provide complete proteins? If
the fact that they are complete or incomplete is not very important is a
seperate issue, and if there are no such thing as "essential amino acids"
this is news to me but whether they are complete or not is something THEY
brought to MY attention, so I am posting this NON-FOOLISH question to this
group about diet. If you have no ability to help beyond giving an overly
complicated answer that only a nutrition expert would understand and then
insulting the question in the first place, I will pass on your advice
because you seem like a prick.


  #18  
Old December 7th, 2005, 05:30 AM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?

Double,

This is the old theory of "protein combining" from the 70's. It was made a
popular belief through the book _A Diet for a Small Planet_ by Frances Moore
Lappe. The idea is that the combined amino acids in a meal should match
that contained in meat. Since rice has some of the amino acids contained in
meat but not others, another food should be added which has an abundance of
those other amino acids, such as beans. The research behind this was based
on the study of the nutritional needs of rats. Of course, people have
different nutritional needs than rats do. In any case, it has long been
established by the scientific community that humans do not need to eat all
of the essential amino acids together in one meal. Rather, they merely need
to be eaten within the same 24-hour period (perhaps up to a couple days, my
memory is a bit fuzzy on the specific duration). As it turns out, any diet
which contains a variety of plant foods easily meets a person's needs for
protein.

Eating a diet composed entirely of a small number of foods will lack a great
number of important nutrients. Variety is essential for good nutrition.
Soybeans are indeed a superb source of protein. Two studies I am aware of
rank soy protein as more biologically available to humans than beef. [1]
However, eating an excessive amount of soy will force out other sources of
nutrients in the diet and may even introduce toxic amounts of some nutrients.

This information is generally common knowledge among nutritionists, however
if you would like references to academic sources I can provide them for you.

Regards,
Scott
(who is not a dietician but enjoys reading journal articles about nutrition)

[1] Schaafsma, G. 2000. The protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score.
J. Nutr. 130 (7): 1865S-67S; Henley, E. C., and J. M Kuster. 1994. Protein
quality evaluation by protein digestibility corrected amino acid scoring.
Food Technology 48 (4): 74-77.

Double wrote:
I have a question for you folks. My Yoga teacher told our class that when
you eat a vegetarian diet you need to be mindful that you get all essential
amino acids from the proteins we eat, for instance beans should be mixed
with whole grain rice for example. Then I talked to a friend of mine the
other day who said that this was an old theory and that it is possible to
get complete proteins from some beans, such as chickpeas and other types of
beans and things (non-animal based).

  #19  
Old December 8th, 2005, 01:06 PM posted to alt.support.diet
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Default Incomplete Protein or Not?


"Matthew Venhaus" wrote in message
...

Double wrote in message news

---------- My yoga teacher says you need to mix beans with whole grain
rice in order to get a complete protein and a friend of mine said this is
not true and that you can get a complete protein from beans (she
specifically named chickpeas, and I have read online that soy can also
provide this). ---------------

Can an
individual meet all their need for amino acids by eating chickpeas
alone? No,

That was the question. Thanks for the answer.

and why would you want to?


I don't know why one would want to...I don't want to, I was just trying to
verify some information.

And even if a "just chickpea"
diet


I never mentioned anything about a "just chickpea" diet. I just asked a
simple question about amino acids in chick peas to resolve two arguments
which have been presented to me by two different people...My yoga teacher
and my friend. I will base my diet around this information, not directly
off it.

could meet all amino acid requirements there are a host of
mineral and vitamin deficiencies that would need to be addressed.


That is probably true, but I never asked you about vitamins so I don't
understand how that is relevent.

Whether one chooses to be vegetarian or not, the basic nutritional
advice of eating a well-balanced diet of a wide variety of foods is
sound.


That is fine, you answered my question so I apologize for insulting you.
Thank you for your time.


 




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