Type II diabetes, low carb (Atkins) and insulin levels..

Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.

Matt

Matt wrote:

I'd be more likely to try the Glucophage XR myself. I've read a lot
about side effects with Actos and Avandia that seem more extreme than
the GI distress from metformin. Google about it.

Plus metformin has two modes of action - it both reduces insulin
resistance as Actos and Avandia do, but also interferes with the liver's
production of glucose from protein. That's particularly important if
your fbg runs high as mine does, but is also important for minimizing
insulin production.

It also seems to increase the rate of weight loss due to limiting
insulin, but until the GI effects are stabilized, it's hard to say if
I'm seeing that or not myself.

I personally feel more comfortable with metformin because it's been on
the market longer; I tend to be generally suspicious of drugs. Too many
get approved and yanked off the market a few years later, I prefer
letting others go first and discover the problems.

If it were me, I'd try the XR stuff and taper the dosage up very, very
slowly to minimize side effects. If that doesn't work for you, the
other meds are always there.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

Jackie,

You're absolutely right. Avandia and Actos have been shown to cause the
grown of brand new fat cells in the upper legs and butt. This is probably
not the way you want to reduce insulin resistance. Not only that, but
studies showing them helping with insulin resistance are flawed because in
several cases the group that had better results at the end of the study also
had better numbers at the START, which is not made clear. Drug companies are
very involved in these studies, often in ways that are not revealed.

I have heard from my Endocrinologist that she does not like Actos and
Avandia because of the weight gain and the tendency they have to pack water
on people, too. Metformin does cause weight loss and seems to be more
effective.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.4.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
Matt wrote:

I'd be more likely to try the Glucophage XR myself. I've read a lot
about side effects with Actos and Avandia that seem more extreme than
the GI distress from metformin. Google about it.

Plus metformin has two modes of action - it both reduces insulin
resistance as Actos and Avandia do, but also interferes with the liver's
production of glucose from protein. That's particularly important if
your fbg runs high as mine does, but is also important for minimizing
insulin production.

It also seems to increase the rate of weight loss due to limiting
insulin, but until the GI effects are stabilized, it's hard to say if
I'm seeing that or not myself.

I personally feel more comfortable with metformin because it's been on
the market longer; I tend to be generally suspicious of drugs. Too many
get approved and yanked off the market a few years later, I prefer
letting others go first and discover the problems.

If it were me, I'd try the XR stuff and taper the dosage up very, very
slowly to minimize side effects. If that doesn't work for you, the
other meds are always there.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

Jenny wrote:
I have heard from my Endocrinologist that she does not like
Actos and Avandia because of the weight gain and the tendency
they have to pack water on people, too. Metformin does cause
weight loss and seems to be more effective.


Based on my inital reaction to Metformin, I bet the initial weight loss
is water weight loss -- ROTFL BJ

BJ in Texas wrote:

Based on my inital reaction to Metformin, I bet the initial weight loss
is water weight loss -- ROTFL BJ

Naw... you lose gas and solids too.

The data seem to indicate that metformin does increase weight loss, but
personally I need a few months of data before I'll buy that it is
working for me.

I don't get too worked up about scale readings anyways, I just freak out
over meter readings.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

If you're a typical T2, you're insulin resistant.

Which means most likely your body makes a lot of insulin... it just
doesn't use it properly.

Unfortunately Metformin (Glucophage) is a great med for insulin
resistance. Ask about the extended release Metformin.. it's supposed
to be easier on the tummy.

I've never ever heard that Avandia "lowers insulin levels" that doesn't
make sense. Here's how Avandia works:

Avandia works to help overcome this insulin resistance by making the
body's cells more sensitive to insulin. Avandia contains an
insulin-sensitizing drug called rosiglitazone maleate — a TZD. TZDs
target a special "receptor site" at the center of certain cells. This
decreases the cells' resistance to insulin and allows more sugar to
enter. As more sugar enters the cells, sugar and insulin levels in the
bloodstream drop. This results in lower blood sugar levels.

Losing weight may be difficult for you... and very very slow.

BUT

By doing what you're doing, low carb and exercise... you have
accomplished a great deal!!!

You've brought your diabetes in control. That's a success story, no
matter what you're pants size is.

Jennifer


Matt wrote:

Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.

Matt

Matt,

What your doctor said is very reasonable and reflects my own experience.
After hitting my goal last summer, I started slowly gaining weight this
winter no matter how much I cut carbs or calories. I went to an
endocrinologist who measured my fasting C-Peptide (a measure of insulin
production) together with my fasting glucose. The pattern showed that I was
producing far too much insulin. Apparently my insulin resistance had gotten
stronger after a year of low carbing. My hba1c was 5.2 at the time that I
started gaining weight. My fasting was about 100 mg/dl. So yes, my control
was spectacular. Didn't mean squat.

I am currently taking Metformin and managed to get back to the weight I
wanted to be at. Not only that, but it lets me eat more carbs without
spiking, if I don't go crazy. Metformin can reduce insulin resistance in the
muscles and liver.

Sadly, type 2 is complicated and so is insulin resistance.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.4.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Matt" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.

Matt

If he gives you the prescription, do some research on it. Some drugs are
dangerous. My feeling is that USENET is not the place to get opinions on
something that intrusive.

There can be many causes for stalls. The first thing to check is your
caloric intake. Try http://www.FitDay.com to find out how many calories you
are consuming per day. I'll assume your carbs are OK, given your good
HBA1c.

Atkins has a list of about 20 things to check, if stalled.

"Matt" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.

Matt

Matt wrote:

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one.

Is 30 your CCLL? In particular what I mean by that is did you spend
a week out of ketosis at 35 to determine that 30 is your CCLL? If
not that's why you stalled. Staying too low eventually triggers
stalls in folks with under 100 to lose and in folks with under 20
it often happens much faster than 5 months.

I have another 110-130 to go.

Yeah, so much for the "under 100 to lose" part above. Everyone
is different.

But as a diabetic you have a more important issue than just loss.
Blood sugar control beats it on your priority scale.

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Get the results of that test first. Then think it over once you
receive the results.

IF your blood sugar levels allow, continue on through OWL until
you spend a week out of ketosis to find your CCLL, then retreat
to 5-10 under that level as your CCLL and loss will resume. When
it comes to loss less is NOT more and that's why every single low
carb plan has folks increase after the first two weeks.

But while increasing you'll have to monitor BG very closely. If
your BG goes over acceptible range you'll have to stop increasing
your carb intake no matter that more carbs mean more loss. Loss
can not be your number one priority. It has to be within what
works for your number one priority.

Next time you get blood tests at a lab, ask the doc to include
a full thyroid panel. Staying too low in carbs tends to cause
T3 and leptin hormone levels to drop. At least T3 is easily
measured.

If the Dr. does suggest Glucophage again, try a very small dose and give
your system several weeks to adjust to it before upping again. There are
also products your pharmacists could recommend to help ease the stomach
stuff.

Julie E.




"Matt" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.

Matt