Type II diabetes, low carb (Atkins) and insulin levels..

I never said I was not a diabetic. Everyone not just diabetics need
fruit you need five fruits per day.

Julie E wrote:
Ok, I'll bite ....

So, you're not a diabetic. Then what are you doing here? Do you know any
diabetics. The first thing my Dr. said was pick up Sugar Busters or any of
the low carb books.

Who told you all diabetics need fruit?

Julie E.
T2 - 11/00


"Dolkian" wrote in message
...

I would never try a low carb diet if I were Diabetic. Diabetics
need a well rounded diet that includes fruits and vegetables.
Check out the ADA site (American Diabetic Assoc.) They have
wonderful programs.
Dokan

Alice Faber wrote:


In article ,
Matt wrote:



Hi All,

I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50 pounds
in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.

However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am eating
less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since day one. It
seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first few months. I have
another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always been in the mid 5's and my
doctor is very pleased with my glucose control with diet and (later)
exercise alone.

When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told me
she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb dieters
run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher insulin levels
EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting glucose (mines in the
upper 80's usually). I have always struggled to loose weight.

Questions:

Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but high
insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?

Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with Diabetes.
I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four 3-4 weeks and
it punished my digestive system. However it was an excellent motivator
to eat right and exercise.

So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could go
on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially recommended
Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am nervous about
considering either because of my very bad Glucophage experience. So
she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on Atkins sight that Avandia can
cause stall's!

So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.


Google here and the diabetes newsgroups for posts by Jenny-the-bean. She
had exactly this problem, as I recall.

It isn't sad it is the truth and eventually you will find that low
carb kills. All the protein and fat causes cardiovascular disease and
kidney disease.

LCer09 wrote:

Who told you all diabetics need fruit?



The ADA says that. A Diabetic (T2) woman at my work was talking about how they
told her to eat something like three servings of fruit a day in her "diabetic
nutrition class". She *really* believes what they tell her too. It's sad.

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/195/140
& hubby- 6' 310/208/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

In article , Dolkian
wrote:

I never said I was not a diabetic. Everyone not just diabetics need
fruit you need five fruits per day.


According to whom?

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Check out some VALID research not just publications that support your
ill conceived premise. You follow your high fat and protein loaded diet
and see which group populates the cardio wards and the dialysis units.
It will be and is now the high consumers of meat proteins and high fats
and very low carbs that one finds in end stage renal disease and cardio
failure.
You stick with your diet and we will stay with ours.

Aurora wrote:

Sure, sugar can be consumed on a diabetic diet. Peanuts can also be
consumed by those who are allergic to them, alcohol can be consumed by
alcoholics, heroin by junkies, etc. Just because sugar CAN be included
in a diabetic's diet without immediately killing them doesn't mean it
is a good idea.

Diabetes is basically a disease featuring errors metabolizing
carbohydrate. Whether you are a type 1 diabetic who simply is
incapable of producing adequate insulin, or whether you are a type 2
with severe insulin resistance (and therefore, a relative deficiency
of insulin even though hyperinsulinemia may exist), because of the
nature of your disease you CANNOT tolerate foods which are rapidly
digested and that flood the body with energy. Due to insulin issues,
rapidly digested foods which trigger a flood of energy cannot be
managed nor tolerated by diabetics. Because of this, a diabetic is
always better off dropping sugar and replacing those calories with
protein or fat. Basically, as good of health they may attain with a
diet that includes sugar, they would have even BETTER health if they
dropped that sugar and replaced it with a slower burning fuel.

It is irresponsible and down right RIDICULOUS of the medical
establishment that diabetics are not told this. Very few diabetics are
aware of the degree that sugar in any form adversely affects their
health. They are beat over the head with the low-fat nonsense, when
the much more pertinent issue is that of watching sugar. Fat doesn't
cause heart disease. Even cholesterol doesn't really cause it,
cholesterol rises in response to heart disease. But do you know what
DOES cause heart disease? Poor sugar control! Poor sugar control on
your meter is a sign of poor energy utilization. Poor energy
utilization contributes to tissue/cellular death. Ultimately it is
tissue death and decay which causes heart disease. The decayed
arteries require cholesterol to be elevated so your body can repair
the damage from the cholesterol (cholesterol repairs cells & tissues).

This is why high cholesterol is typically seen in groups who are at a
big risk for premature aging/tissue & cellular death: smokers (oxygen
deprivation), diabetics (energy deprivation), those who are stressed
out & live generally unhealthy lifestyles with poor sleep (which
promotes physiological decay/unwellness by not allowing adequate
rest/repair time for your body & elevating stress hormones which tax
the body), etc. It's the LIFESTYLE which is causing the heart disease,
the cholesterol is just a symptom of the disease!

Telling diabetics to forgo fat in favor of sugar is like telling
someone to lay in the middle of the street and put a stint in their
leg to avoid damage from a car crash. Sure, the stint might help if
you ALREADY have been hit... but laying in the street *just so* you
can put the stint in your leg is just a d*mn stupid idea if you ask
me. If a diabetic dumps the sugar, raises the fat, and gets better
control this way, they are automatically at a lower risk for heart
disease.

Dolkian wrote in message ...

The ADA is a wonderful group and works with scientific facts nor pie
in the sky (as it were) ideas. Sugar can be consumed in any diet even
that of a diabetic.

Bob in CT wrote:


On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:45:30 -0500, Jim Bard wrote:


"Alice Faber" wrote in message
...


In article ,
Dolkian wrote:


I would never try a low carb diet if I were Diabetic. Diabetics
need a well rounded diet that includes fruits and vegetables.
Check out the ADA site (American Diabetic Assoc.) They have
wonderful programs.
Dokan


Me too. I'm not diabetic, but if I were, I'd hate to disappoint the
pharmaceutical companies who have worked so hard to find drugs to control
ailments that often can be controlled by diet.



The ADA is horrible. They're the ones who say you can eat sugar while
being a diabetic. Shame on them! Moreover, why doesn't a low carb diet
include fruits and vegetables? Mine does.

I have followed the basic ADA MEDITERRANEAN diet i.e., low protein,
high carbs etc., for 35 years and have no problems what-so-ever!
Besides it tastes great. I can have pasta, bread, rolls and all the
other wonderful things you refuse to eat.
How have you benefited from a high risk diet that brings about
cardiovascular disease and end stage renal failure.

Aurora wrote:

He is either a troll or just one of those types who finds thinking for
himself and straying from the status quo discomforting for some
reason. As someone who bases their actions around observed reality and
results, this kind of mindset is hard to understand. I don't know what
it is, but some people are either lazy or scared I guess. Lazy because
it is easier to listen to "the establishment" instead of do your own
research. Scared because holding an unpopular minority opinion is
intimidating and an insecure place to be. Either way, it's pretty
obvious to me this fellows objection to using low carb to control
diabetes is based in the fact that it goes against the
"establishment", not because of the results low carb does or doesn't
give. We aren't his shrink, let him work out those issues on his own.
It isn't pertinent to discussion.

"BJ in Texas" wrote in message om...

Dolkian wrote:

Then why not state that is YOUR experience and not one
shared by most diabetics and not one most doctors approve of.


And many other Type II diabetics... My doctor approves of my
methods because they work, not because they agree or disagree
with the ADA's recommendations. He is also aware that he has
a number of Type II's following the ADA's recommendations
that are not as successful as I am.

Why is it that someone that is not at all experienced with living
with Type II diabetes thinks they can tell us how it should be
controlled?

BJ

Don't worry stay on the low carb diet and big pharma will have their
share of your money. It is costly to treat cardiovascular and end stage
renal disease.

Debbie Cassock wrote:

Dolkian wrote:

I would never try a low carb diet if I were Diabetic. Diabetics
need a well rounded diet that includes fruits and vegetables.
Check out the ADA site (American Diabetic Assoc.) They have
wonderful programs.


And what can you get from fruit that you can't get from veggies? (other than
lots of sugar to spike your blood glucose). I'm a T2 diabetic, and
controlling my BGs is what it's all about, so I eat lots of fresh veggies,
minimal fruit (some handfuls of berries and other LC fruit). Keep my carbs
low and my BG under decent control.

I guess the ADA diet is good for the pharmecutical companies though. :-) If
I ate the way they recommend I'd be on all sorts of medications for sure!

--
Debbie

Strange my body processes carbs just fine.

Debbie Cassock wrote:

Dolkian wrote:

We prefer following our doctors and dieticians advice as how to
care for any disease.


Well as I stated, my doctor and my dietician both want me on a low carb
diet. When I got my T2 diagnosis almost the first thing my doctor said to me
was "this is your body's way of telling you it can't process carbs
effectively anymore".
--
Debbie

Well, then, I should be dead as I have never eaten much fruit.

In ,
Dolkian stated
| I never said I was not a diabetic. Everyone not just diabetics
| need fruit you need five fruits per day.
|
| Julie E wrote:
|| Ok, I'll bite ....
||
|| So, you're not a diabetic. Then what are you doing here? Do you
|| know any diabetics. The first thing my Dr. said was pick up Sugar
|| Busters or any of the low carb books.
||
|| Who told you all diabetics need fruit?
||
|| Julie E.
|| T2 - 11/00
||
||
|| "Dolkian" wrote in message
|| ...
||
||| I would never try a low carb diet if I were Diabetic. Diabetics
||| need a well rounded diet that includes fruits and vegetables.
||| Check out the ADA site (American Diabetic Assoc.) They have
||| wonderful programs.
||| Dokan
|||
||| Alice Faber wrote:
|||
|||
|||| In article ,
|||| Matt wrote:
||||
||||
||||
||||| Hi All,
|||||
||||| I am a type II diabetic on Atkins. I have lost probably 40-50
||||| pounds in the year I have been on the diet. I also feel great.
|||||
||||| However for the last 4 or 5 months, I have been stalling. I am
||||| eating less than 30 carbs a day and exercising as I have since
||||| day one. It seems I lost most of my weight easily in the first
||||| few months. I have another 110-130 to go. My HbA1c has always
||||| been in the mid 5's and my doctor is very pleased with my glucose
||||| control with diet and (later) exercise alone.
|||||
||||| When I saw my doctor today and asked her about stalling, she told
||||| me she would test my insulin levels. Because has seen low carb
||||| dieters run into long stalls and slow loss because of higher
||||| insulin levels EVEN if they have good HbA1c AND good fasting
||||| glucose (mines in the upper 80's usually). I have always
||||| struggled to loose weight.
|||||
||||| Questions:
|||||
||||| Does the above sound reasonable (good blood sugar control, but
||||| high insulin levels)? And could this be my problem?
|||||
||||| Also, I tried Glucophage when I was initially diagnosed with
||||| Diabetes. I could *NOT* tolerate this medication. I tried it four
||||| 3-4 weeks and it punished my digestive system. However it was an
||||| excellent motivator to eat right and exercise.
|||||
||||| So, my doctor told me that if my insulin levels were high I could
||||| go on Avandia to help lower insulin levels. She initially
||||| recommended Glucophage and also mentioned Glucophage XR, but I am
||||| nervous about considering either because of my very bad
||||| Glucophage experience. So she suggested Avaindia. Yet, I read on
||||| Atkins sight that Avandia can cause stall's!
|||||
||||| So, one more question: If my insulin level is high (and that could
||||| cause the above stall/loss problems), should I try the Avandia?
|||||
||||| Thanks for reading and any advice you can give! I need it.
||||
||||
|||| Google here and the diabetes newsgroups for posts by
|||| Jenny-the-bean. She had exactly this problem, as I recall.

In article ,
Dolkian wrote:

Strange my body processes carbs just fine.

OK, so you don't have diabetes, then.

Priscilla

In article ,
Luna wrote:

In article , Dolkian
wrote:

I never said I was not a diabetic. Everyone not just diabetics need
fruit you need five fruits per day.


According to whom?

The fruit growers.

Priscilla