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Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 19th, 2007, 04:18 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Jim
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Posts: 279
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

Following Taubes, I looked for the document "Dietary Reference Intakes"
compiled by the Institute of Medicine (2002) edition. In this government
report are said to be statements that the brain will run just fine
without anycarbohydrates (provided adequate proteins and fats are supplied),

What I was able to find without very much searching was the following:
================================================== ================

Begin On Page 275 of
Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty
Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients) (2005)
Food and Nutrition Board (FNB)

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?reco...10490&page=275


Clinical Effects of Inadequate Intake [of Carbohydrates]

The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently
is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.
However, the amount of dietary carbohydrate that provides for optimal
health in humans is unknown. There are traditional populations that
ingested a high fat, high protein diet containing only a minimal amount
of carbohydrate for extended periods of time (Masai), and in some cases
for a lifetime after infancy (Alaska and Greenland Natives, Inuits, and
Pampas indigenous people) (Du Bois, 1928; Heinbecker, 1928). There was
no apparent effect on health or longevity. Caucasians eating an
essentially carbohydrate-free diet, resembling that of Greenland
natives, for a year tolerated the diet quite well (Du Bois, 1928).
However, a detailed modern comparison with populations ingesting the
majority of food energy as carbohydrate has never been done.

================================================== ======

This document contains the same information that Taubes referenced in
his book "Good Carbs, Bad Carbs" on page 456.

This document goes on with a rather extensive discussion on ketones and
stuff of that nature which explicitly describe how these alternative
energy sources provide needed brain energy. Some people interested in
the details may find thes interesting.

But, evidently, when someone tells you this old horse story about the
brain needing 100 grams of carbohydrates, you can be assured that this
is bodily excretion from the posterior of a horse.
  #2  
Old October 19th, 2007, 05:51 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
em
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Posts: 519
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

What about vitamin C and all that other stuff? What I lernt in the 60's, in
grade school, was that if you didn't get vitamin C, you would get scurvy.
I've really been wondering about what I get from my diet vs. what I really
need to have. Now that I've added melons to my diet, and plan to up the
berries a little bit, in addition to the veggies, I'm not so sure I need
supplements. I hate taking those things because (for one thing) the way the
ingredients are balanced. Taking a thousand percent of the RDA of most
things, and 3% of other things, just doesn't make sense.

Why can't they just make a pill with 100% of everything??

Oh, another question: are melons fruits or another class of foods? I've
never thought of watermelon as a fruit, for example, but it has seeds, no?

Mike


"Jim" wrote in message
...
Following Taubes, I looked for the document "Dietary Reference Intakes"
compiled by the Institute of Medicine (2002) edition. In this government
report are said to be statements that the brain will run just fine without
anycarbohydrates (provided adequate proteins and fats are supplied),

What I was able to find without very much searching was the following:
================================================== ================

Begin On Page 275 of
Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty
Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients) (2005)
Food and Nutrition Board (FNB)

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?reco...10490&page=275


Clinical Effects of Inadequate Intake [of Carbohydrates]

The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is
zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.
However, the amount of dietary carbohydrate that provides for optimal
health in humans is unknown. There are traditional populations that
ingested a high fat, high protein diet containing only a minimal amount of
carbohydrate for extended periods of time (Masai), and in some cases for a
lifetime after infancy (Alaska and Greenland Natives, Inuits, and Pampas
indigenous people) (Du Bois, 1928; Heinbecker, 1928). There was no
apparent effect on health or longevity. Caucasians eating an essentially
carbohydrate-free diet, resembling that of Greenland natives, for a year
tolerated the diet quite well (Du Bois, 1928). However, a detailed modern
comparison with populations ingesting the majority of food energy as
carbohydrate has never been done.

================================================== ======

This document contains the same information that Taubes referenced in his
book "Good Carbs, Bad Carbs" on page 456.

This document goes on with a rather extensive discussion on ketones and
stuff of that nature which explicitly describe how these alternative
energy sources provide needed brain energy. Some people interested in the
details may find thes interesting.

But, evidently, when someone tells you this old horse story about the
brain needing 100 grams of carbohydrates, you can be assured that this is
bodily excretion from the posterior of a horse.


  #3  
Old October 19th, 2007, 06:34 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
DJ Delorie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"


"em" writes:
Why can't they just make a pill with 100% of everything??


For somethings, too much is worse than just enough. If your diet
already has plenty of it, getting more from a pill is bad.

Plus, eventually you run out of room in that little pill.

That being said, different pills have different ratios. I use GNC's
Mega-Men, which has 100% of most things, extra of some things, and
less of a few things (like calcium, which is easy to get elsewhere).

Oh, another question: are melons fruits or another class of foods?


Botanically, it's a fruit. "Fruits" are the ovaries of the plants.
Botanically, cucumbers are fruits too, but I don't want one for
dessert.
  #4  
Old October 19th, 2007, 07:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

"em" wrote:

What about vitamin C and all that other stuff? What I lernt in the 60's, in
grade school, was that if you didn't get vitamin C, you would get scurvy.


Yet folks who eat fresh raw or undercooked meat don't get scurvy.
That means meat has C in it until cooked. If you wanna eat raw
seal eyeballs, you won't get scurvy either.

I've really been wondering about what I get from my diet vs. what I really
need to have. Now that I've added melons to my diet, and plan to up the
berries a little bit, in addition to the veggies, I'm not so sure I need
supplements.


Agreed. But I take them anyways. I have a different reason
for doing it - Belt and suspenders. Modern argiculture only
puts the minerals into the soil that are needed to grow the
crops, so the foods I eat might or might not have the expected
minerals. Selective breeding is for yield and transportability, so
the foods I eat might or might not have the expected vitamins.
So I take supplements to be sure.

I also take specific supplements based on my age and family
medical history.

I hate taking those things because (for one thing) the way the
ingredients are balanced. Taking a thousand percent of the RDA of most
things, and 3% of other things, just doesn't make sense.


Good for you for noticing and thinking it over.

Why can't they just make a pill with 100% of everything??


1) That's Centrum's claim to fame. They keep retuning their
formula based on the latest science. But they assume 100%
is the right amount. It's actually what it takes to be sure you
won't get a deficiency - Great for my case of belt and suspenders
but not for someone likely to have a deficiency.

2) Certain nutrients like iron and vitamin D have overdose levels
within ten times their theraputic dose levels, so tablets are sold
without them.

3) Certain nutrients like C and calcium have such large theraputic
doses that a pill with them all would be huge. So I take a regular
multi, plus C, plus cal/mag.

4) Certain nutrients are liquid while others are powder. So I take
fish oil separately.

5) No one actually knows what "everything" really is. There hasn't
been an essential nutrient discovered in a while but the list might
not be complete yet. But there's more to nutrition than essential.

Oh, another question: are melons fruits or another class of foods? I've
never thought of watermelon as a fruit, for example, but it has seeds, no?


The class of melons is a subset of the class of fruits. Same as -
The class of berries is a subset of the class of fruits.

  #5  
Old October 19th, 2007, 09:48 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Jackie Patti
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Posts: 429
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

em wrote:
What about vitamin C and all that other stuff? What I lernt in the 60's,
in grade school, was that if you didn't get vitamin C, you would get
scurvy. I've really been wondering about what I get from my diet vs.
what I really need to have. Now that I've added melons to my diet, and
plan to up the berries a little bit, in addition to the veggies, I'm not
so sure I need supplements. I hate taking those things because (for one
thing) the way the ingredients are balanced. Taking a thousand percent
of the RDA of most things, and 3% of other things, just doesn't make sense.

Why can't they just make a pill with 100% of everything??


We don't know what we need.

I've jumped back into nutritional research after a couple decades of not
paying much attention to discover there's all sorts of micronutrients
being discussed that weren't even on being discussed back then.

If we knew exactly what we needed nutritionally, we could make a pill.
But I doubt if we'll know that any time in the near future, so we have
to eat real food.

And then there's also issues with differing biochemistries. If you're
damaged for one reason or another, you're likely not to heal without
specific supplements on top of food. This is why I take fish oil,
vitamin D and pantothenic acid now - I had a heart attack and need more
of this stuff to heal than I can get in food.


Oh, another question: are melons fruits or another class of foods? I've
never thought of watermelon as a fruit, for example, but it has seeds, no?


Melons are fruits; I think everyone has always considered melons to be
fruits. So are their relative, the cucumbers, though few think of
cucumbers as fruits.


--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/
  #6  
Old October 20th, 2007, 07:35 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Kaz Kylheku
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Posts: 347
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

On Oct 19, 8:18 am, Jim wrote:
But, evidently, when someone tells you this old horse story about the
brain needing 100 grams of carbohydrates, you can be assured that this
is bodily excretion from the posterior of a horse.


In general, whatever glucose the brain needs, the brain will get, even
if it's not from the diet. Inessential is not the same thing as
unnecessary.


  #7  
Old October 20th, 2007, 08:08 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Harold Groot
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Posts: 40
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:51:21 -0700, "em" wrote:

What about vitamin C and all that other stuff? What I lernt in the 60's, in
grade school, was that if you didn't get vitamin C, you would get scurvy.


Organ meats (kidney, liver, etc.) have Vitamin C - but cooking
destroys it. So if you are living on seals and such near the Arctic
Circle (where the diet does NOT contain fresh fruit or rose hips or
other abundant plant sources) you can still get along just fine. The
traditional cultures up there ate all the edible parts of their
catches and didn't have fuels for cooking it. They had no shortage of
Vitamin C.

Typical Americans only eat muscle meat most of the time. Even those
who eat organ meat usually cook it. We therefore need to get our
Vitamin C from some other source.


  #8  
Old October 20th, 2007, 12:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Old Horse Story "Brain Needs 100g of Carbohydrates for Health"

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
On Oct 19, 8:18 am, Jim wrote:

But, evidently, when someone tells you this old horse story about the
brain needing 100 grams of carbohydrates, you can be assured that this
is bodily excretion from the posterior of a horse.



In general, whatever glucose the brain needs, the brain will get, even
if it's not from the diet. Inessential is not the same thing as
unnecessary.



Yes, the long form of what you said above is below. Particularly in the
section on the human ability to starve for weeks.

================================================== ===========

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?reco...10490&page=275

Clinical Effects of Inadequate Intake [of Carbohydrate]

The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently
is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.
However, the amount of dietary carbohydrate that provides for optimal
health in humans is unknown. There are traditional populations that
ingested a high fat, high protein diet containing only a minimal amount
of carbohydrate for extended periods of time (Masai), and in some cases
for a lifetime after infancy (Alaska and Greenland Natives, Inuits, and
Pampas indigenous people) (Du Bois, 1928; Heinbecker, 1928). There was
no apparent effect on health or longevity. Caucasians eating an
essentially carbohydrate-free diet, resembling that of Greenland
natives, for a year tolerated the diet quite well (Du Bois, 1928).
However, a detailed modern comparison with populations ingesting the
majority of food energy as carbohydrate has never been done.

It has been shown that rats and chickens grow and mature successfully on
a carbohydrate-free diet (Brito et al., 1992; Renner and Elcombe, 1964),
but only if adequate protein and glycerol from triacylglycerols are
provided in the diet as substrates for gluconeogenesis. It has also been
shown that rats grow and thrive on a 70 percent protein,
carbohydrate-free diet (Gannon et al., 1985). Azar and Bloom (1963) also
reported that nitrogen balance in adults ingesting a carbohydrate-free
diet required the ingestion of 100 to 150 g of protein daily. This, plus
the glycerol obtained from triacylglycerol in the diet, presumably
supplied adequate substratefor gluconeogenesis and thus provided at
least a minimal amount of completely oxidizable glucose.

The ability of humans to starve for weeks after endogenous glycogen
supplies are essentially exhausted is also indicative of the ability of
humans to survive without an exogenous supply of glucose or
monosaccharides convertible to glucose in the liver (fructose and
galactose). However, adaptation to a fat and protein fuel requires
considerable metabolic adjustments.

The only cells that have an absolute requirement for glucose as an
oxidizable fuel are those in the central nervous system (i.e., brain)
and those cells that depend upon anaerobic glycolysis (i.e., the partial
oxidation of glucose to produce lactate and alanine as a source of
energy), such as red blood cells, white blood cells, and medulla of the
kidney. The central nervous system can adapt to a dietary fat-derived
fuel, at least in part (Cahill, 1970; Sokoloff, 1973). Also, the
glycolyzing cells can obtain their complete energy needs from the
indirect oxidation of fatty acids through the lactate and
alanine-glucose cycles.

In the absence of dietary carbohydrate, de novo synthesis of glucose
requires amino acids derived from the hydrolysis of endogenous or
dietary protein or glycerol derived from fat. Therefore, the marginal
amount of carbohydrate required in the diet in an energy-balanced state
is conditional and dependent upon the remaining composition of the diet.
Nevertheless, there may be subtle and unrecognized, untoward effects of
a very low carbohydrate diet that may only be apparent when populations
not genetically or traditionally adapted to this diet adopt it. This
remains to be determined but is a reasonable expectation.


....
 




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