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How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 28th, 2006, 09:42 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
rmr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

NO. This is really bad advice. NEVER lift to failure. You will injure
yourself. Can you imagine a newby trying tto squat to failure. recipe
for a broken back. Or trying a bench press to failure - broken neck!

DONT DO IT.

How about qualifying this with never do it unless you are an experienced
weightlifter? With the exception of my shoulders and scapular area, I
almost always work to failure and have been for years while under the
tutelage of a very experienced personal trainer.

I'd say never do it until you've been working out a long time, are sure
you have correct form, and in most cases someone around to spot you.


OK, you know more about it than me. If you are an experienced
weightlifter who really knows what you are doing - there may be a
reason to lift to failure.
But this is a weigh****chers newgroup not a weightlifters newsgroup.
With respect you are probably the ONLY competitive lifter here!! For
the rest of us leaving one more rep in the bag is the thing to do.

Ray
  #12  
Old July 28th, 2006, 10:33 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Eddie-Type2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

VBChick wrote: "Remember that the quads and glutes are huge muscles and
working them burns
more calories than working say the triceps (though it's important to do
those too). In a resting state it takes more energy (calories) to sustain
those muscles so it's good to keep them in shape."

You know what? ......That's a really good point! How silly of me to not
really think about that!! (

The main reason I started lifting weights was to build muscle to help my BG
levels and to also burn more calories while at rest!!
JEeeeeeeeezZZZzzz! what an idiot I've been!

Thanks for bringing this up!.......I guess it's time to chart out a good
lower body routine!

BTW, my legs are still killing me from those squats!! hehehehe

Mind you.......it's a "nice" ache

Eddie
Weight June05-359.0lbs
Current Weight-289.6lbs
Loss to date=69.4lbs
Goal Weight-180.0lbs

"Nunya B." wrote in message
...
That website I gave you has exercises using machines, dumbbells, olympic
bars, bodyweight, you name it. It's great.

I'd work the legs more than once a week, but if you're doing smith squats
one day and leg press another that's great and no need to do much more.
Remember that the quads and glutes are huge muscles and working them burns
more calories than working say the triceps (though it's important to do
those too). In a resting state it takes more energy (calories) to sustain
those muscles so it's good to keep them in shape. Walking on the treadmill
doesn't do anything to build or maintain leg strength though it's a fabulous
thing to do anyway. I was in the same position, over 300 lbs when I started
and now I can leg press 4x my body weight.

Continuing to push yourself will help maintain muscle mass as you lose
weight. Yep, you're going to lose some strength - I was kind of bummed at
the decrease in some of my upper body stuff, but I started looking at it as
a percentage of overall body weight and felt better about it.
--
the volleyballchick

"Eddie-Type2" wrote in message
...
I have been using machines to target my lats, shoulders, abs and legs, but
I
don't enjoy them as much as the free weights. I try to alternate my
workouts and mix things up. I recently started doing sitting dumbbell
shoulder presses use 2-25lbs abd I plan on continuing with that. I don't
work my lower body much because having been over 300 lbs for the last 5
years, my legs are in pretty good shape - as time goes on, I plan to start
working more on them, but right now I am simply doing the leg press one a
week and walking on the treadmill 3 times a week. I also do many
stretching
exercises - people are amazed at how flexible I am for a short little fat
guy! LOL!

Eddie
Weight June05-359.0lbs
Current Weight-291.8lbs
Loss to date=67.2lbs
Goal Weight-180.0lbs

"Nunya B." wrote in message
...
Eddie,

Looks like your workout is very arm intensive. What are you doing for
your
traps, shoulders, and lats besides the alternating dumbell rows?

Take a look at this site: http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html for some ideas
on how to hit those other groups.

Everyone is different in their weightlifting, but an overall good thing is
to think about the specific muscle groups you're trying to hit and do it.
I
do full body twice a week due to time constraints. Some do upper one day,
lower the next. My workout is generally geared from the neck down. This
means I get to the gym and figure out what I'm going to do for my traps,
then do the pecs, etc. and I work on big muscles before the small ones so
I
save my shoulder specific and arm specific exercises until after the pecs
and lats. Totally not a requirement by any means, it's just the habit
I've
gotten into. It's an efficiency thing

Smith squats are great in that they take the need for balancing out of the
equation - you probably won't fall over like you could with regular
squats.
Just make sure your legs are in the correct position and that your your
form
is spot on or else you can cause shearing in the knee.
--
the volleyballchick

"Eddie-Type2" wrote in message
...
Hey Ray,

I think you probably know that I've also been lifting weights since
January.

If you don't mind, can you please share your routine...........I'm really
curious to know what you're doing because in my case, I am pushing heavy
weights for 3 sets each and I'm also superset.

I start out with the Bench Press
135x10
155x8
175x6
Sometimes, I will try to push a 4th set at 190 with someone spotting
me......

But I superset the bench press with straight barbell curls
40x10
50x8
60x6

Then I do a 3rd superset for my triceps with overhead dumbbell tri
extensions
35x10
35x10
35x10

After those 9 sets, I then do 3 sets of alternating dumbbell curls
15x10
20x10
25x10

Then I do preacher curls superset with overhead preacher bar tri
extensions
55x10 curl, then 55x10 O/H tri ext (some people call them head crushers!)

On alternate days, I do bent over dumbbell lifts/row
40x10, 3 sets superset each arm

I recently started doing squats with the smith machine - what a
killer!!!!!!
my thighs feel like some too a baseball bat to them!! hehehe
But I hear squats are also very good for cardio as well - I hate the
treadmill and bike, but I still fit them in on alternate days........

I try to change my routine so that it doesn't get stale.........in time,
when I lose another 100lbs, I plan to show off all my huge muscles with
my
ultimate goal of walking on the beach wearing a Speedo!!!
hehehehahahaha!!!!!! the girls at my WW meeting just love it when I say
that
grin

Eddie
Weight June05-359.0lbs
Current Weight-291.8lbs
Loss to date=67.2lbs
Goal Weight-180.0lbs

"rmr" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:52:51 +1000, "Gary Matthews"
articles@maximumfitness wrote:

snip

Compound exercises are much more functional and superior to isolation
exercises and promote natural movement of your joints. Heavier loads can
also be lifted using these exercises. Some benefits a

. More functional
. Higher muscle activation
. Higher hormonal release
. Less stress on joints.



Yes. Compund exercises are the way to go. Squat, deadlift, bench,
chin-up, dip, and a few others.

snip Performing three to four exercises with high intensity
during a session are what most people are capable of during a high

intensity
strength-training workout. All the main muscle groups are thoroughly
exercised with these exercises and they have an overall growth effect on

the
body as a whole i.e. a total body workout.

After rest and recuperation is allowed to take place and at the next
exercise session if you can push out a few more reps then you will have
become stronger, thus allowing for more muscle growth. i.e. more lean

muscle
and a higher metabolism.

It only takes one of these workouts to target the entire major support
muscles of the body. Exercises should be chosen from the more complex and
challenging to the less complex and challenging. Remember, as you get
stronger in your upper body exercises i.e. Dips, Bench Press and Lat Pull
downs, you will also add size to your upper arms as well as to your
shoulders. There is no need to train the arms and shoulders with
isolation
exercises.

Did you know that current research shows that performing one set per
exercise is as beneficial as multiple set workouts!!


Not really. You must do one or two warmup sets of each exercise first
then a minimum of one challenging set. There's not much return on
doing more than three, except that you will expend more energy.

Really it depends on your goal. If you are looking for endurance then
do more lighter and longer sets. If you are looking for maximum
strength, then go for a few shorter, heavier sets.

If you think that volume training (multiple sets) is more effective then
you're wrong! The latest research shows that single set training is as
beneficial as multiple set training. Also by performing the one set
decreases the chances of over training and saves valuable energy for
other
exercises required during that particular workout.


This is not the case. Especially since you are advocating one set to
failure. That is a guarantee of injuring yourself. You should adjust
the weight to do 5-15 reps per set and still have enough strength to
do one more rep. You should never lift to failure.

So all you need to do is ONE SET only of each strength training exercise,
this is accomplished by performing as many repetitions as you possibly
can.


After performing one complete set to total failure, it should be just
about
impossible to generate the same force and intensity for another complete

set
of the same exercise. If you're able to generate the same force and
intensity for this second set then it is pretty obvious that not enough
effort has been put into the first set. If you give each set per exercise
100% effort (e.g. you cannot move the bar after the last rep) then there
will be no more requirement for further muscle stimulation on that
specific
exercise.


NO. This is really bad advice. NEVER lift to failure. You will injure
yourself. Can you imagine a newby trying tto squat to failure. recipe
for a broken back. Or trying a bench press to failure - broken neck!

DONT DO IT.

Multiple Sets can be used in the following circumstances.

. The initial stages of learning a new exercise.

. During rehabilitation


Definately.

Remember it is the intensity that is important, not the volume when it

comes
to gains in strength. One warm up set of 50% of maximal weight can be
done
for 5-10 repetitions to oil the joints for the big work set that is to
follow. After completing a set and when your breathing has returned to
normal proceed to the next exercise. There is no time limit here just
what
you feel comfortable with, be it 3 or 5 minutes etc.


again it depends on your goals.

Make no mistake about it put what you have leaned here to practice and
you
will start to finally make those long awaited gains you have been after.
snip url


Use google to get advice from several different sources and go with
those who make the best case. But be conservative in what you do.
Lifting weights can be dangerous. Above all be careful and always
underestimate how much you can lift.

ps. Isolation exercises can be useful too. You should generally do
isolation exercises at the end after doing the compound exercises. But
you should have a good reason for doing isolation exercises. I
generally do a few isolation exercise to make a session up to an hour.

Ray








  #13  
Old July 28th, 2006, 10:38 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 615
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?


"rmr" wrote in message
...
NO. This is really bad advice. NEVER lift to failure. You will injure
yourself. Can you imagine a newby trying tto squat to failure. recipe
for a broken back. Or trying a bench press to failure - broken neck!

DONT DO IT.

How about qualifying this with never do it unless you are an
experienced
weightlifter? With the exception of my shoulders and scapular area, I
almost always work to failure and have been for years while under the
tutelage of a very experienced personal trainer.

I'd say never do it until you've been working out a long time, are sure
you have correct form, and in most cases someone around to spot you.


OK, you know more about it than me. If you are an experienced
weightlifter who really knows what you are doing - there may be a
reason to lift to failure.
But this is a weigh****chers newgroup not a weightlifters newsgroup.
With respect you are probably the ONLY competitive lifter here!! For
the rest of us leaving one more rep in the bag is the thing to do.

Ray


Actually I'm not a competitive weightlifter though I was considering the
option and had trained with that intent when I started out. I brought this
up with my trainer yesterday and he reiterated that once you get your form
correct, you are doing yourself a disservice "leaving one more rep in the
bag." Lifting to failure uses the most amount of power units in your
muscles. Leaving that aside for no good reason (like you've got one more
set) is just wasting it because you aren't working your muscles to their
full potential. I don't have the time to **** away at the gym playing
around. I need to push, pull, lift, stretch, and get the heck out of there
and can only do it twice a week.

That said, lifting to failure is only done on the very last set of any given
exercise and should only occur if it doesn't involve breaking form. Also,
one should never attempt to go beyond failure and give yourself plenty of
recovery before working that muscle again. Mind you no one would ever
recommend doing squats to failure.

Not everyone here is a beginner at lifting and I know I'm not the only one
with some experience. If you want to work out to 90-95% there's nothing
wrong with it, but what I don't care for is the blanket statements that are
OPINION based ("never" do this or that). It's just perpetuating myth.
--
the volleyballchick


  #14  
Old July 28th, 2006, 10:52 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
rmr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:29:52 -0400, "Eddie-Type2"
wrote:

Hey Ray,

I think you probably know that I've also been lifting weights since January.

If you don't mind, can you please share your routine...........I'm really
curious to know what you're doing because in my case, I am pushing heavy
weights for 3 sets each and I'm also superset.

I start out with the Bench Press
135x10
155x8
175x6
Sometimes, I will try to push a 4th set at 190 with someone spotting
me......

But I superset the bench press with straight barbell curls
40x10
50x8
60x6

Then I do a 3rd superset for my triceps with overhead dumbbell tri
extensions
35x10
35x10
35x10

After those 9 sets, I then do 3 sets of alternating dumbbell curls
15x10
20x10
25x10

Then I do preacher curls superset with overhead preacher bar tri extensions
55x10 curl, then 55x10 O/H tri ext (some people call them head crushers!)

On alternate days, I do bent over dumbbell lifts/row
40x10, 3 sets superset each arm

I recently started doing squats with the smith machine - what a killer!!!!!!
my thighs feel like some too a baseball bat to them!! hehehe
But I hear squats are also very good for cardio as well - I hate the
treadmill and bike, but I still fit them in on alternate days........

I try to change my routine so that it doesn't get stale.........in time,
when I lose another 100lbs, I plan to show off all my huge muscles with my
ultimate goal of walking on the beach wearing a Speedo!!!
hehehehahahaha!!!!!! the girls at my WW meeting just love it when I say that


I'm also a beginner. Most of what I 'know' is what I've read and so
theoretical, but it hasn't let me down. I haven't lifted much in the
last few weeks ços we had a bit of a flood and the house is being
redecorated including a new kitchen.

I usually workout 3 times a week. I do 1 warm up set then three heavy
sets. I increase the weight for squats and deadlift with each set, but
not for the rest of the exercises. For the rest I try to increase 1
rep every few workous. When I get to about 12ish I add a bit of weight
and drop the reps, and start the cycle again. I've done a couple of
cycles so far and it's getting harder to progress.

1. squat or deadlift. 3 sets of 5-8 reps deadlift up to 100kilos -
squat up to 80 kilos

2. should be bench press, but I usually do military press ços I don't
have the bench at the moment bench up to 70kilos

3. Single arm rows, or bent over barbell rows

4. lat pulldown when the machine is set up

5. triceps extensions

6. biceps curls

7. other stuff to take me to an hour (eg abs stuff)

I also have some problems with my left shoulder so I'm doing some
rotator cuff exercises too. Very light, lots of reps - boring but it
works.

My aim is 100% body weight on bench and 150% on deadlift. I still have
some way to go on the bench, or some weight to lose. My other aim like
you is to look OK on the beach. I'd like to see my abs again, even a
hint would be nice.

I like deadlift and squat best. They are very taxing but getting it
right is really rewarding.

Interestingly there is some controversy about using machines versus
free weights - smith machines in particular. Machines are easy to
adjust and easy to use, but they force you to lift a certain way,
which may not be entirely natural/right for you.
Free weights are more time consuming to adjust, and you have to spend
time getting your form right, but then you lift as nature intended,
and have to exercise lots of additional muscles to keep stability.

http://www.exrx.net/Beginning.html

Ray
  #15  
Old July 29th, 2006, 12:02 AM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
rmr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

Not everyone here is a beginner at lifting and I know I'm not the only one
with some experience. If you want to work out to 90-95% there's nothing
wrong with it, but what I don't care for is the blanket statements that are
OPINION based ("never" do this or that). It's just perpetuating myth.


I'm sorry if you don't like my blanket statement. The vast majority of
people who are likely to read this would be stupid to try lifting to
failure for the reason i stated. Those who do know better (you for
instance) will ignore my advice, it doesn't make the advice any less
valid.

Your trainer's opinion that not lifting to failure is a waste of time
is also perpetuating a myth. What scientific basis does he have for
that claim? Is he going to tell you he has thirty years of injuring
his trainees? What proof does he have to support the idea that his
techniques are so much better than someone else who does get their
trainees to lift to failure.

and yes everyone here is a beginner. They would not be on a
weigh****chers newsgroup if they had much exposure to the
weightlifting community.

Ray
  #16  
Old July 29th, 2006, 12:56 AM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 615
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?


"rmr" wrote in message
...
Interestingly there is some controversy about using machines versus
free weights - smith machines in particular. Machines are easy to
adjust and easy to use, but they force you to lift a certain way,
which may not be entirely natural/right for you.
Free weights are more time consuming to adjust, and you have to spend
time getting your form right, but then you lift as nature intended,
and have to exercise lots of additional muscles to keep stability.

http://www.exrx.net/Beginning.html


The only people I've met who scoff the machines are ones who either don't
know how to use them properly or feel like it makes them "cool" to do so.

There are some benefits to using machines that you don't get from free
weights. A good, balanced exercise program will usually contain a bit of
each but a person needs to use what they have. Machines are good for muscle
isolation and for using power to build strength. Taking the stabilizing
activity out of lifting leaves nothing left but power which is why a person
can usually leg press a much higher % of bodyweight than a squat.

Machines are problems for some when they aren't used properly and like any
other activity not done right will lead to injury.
--
the volleyballchick


  #17  
Old July 29th, 2006, 01:03 AM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 615
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?


"Eddie-Type2" wrote in message
...
VBChick wrote: "Remember that the quads and glutes are huge muscles and
working them burns
more calories than working say the triceps (though it's important to do
those too). In a resting state it takes more energy (calories) to sustain
those muscles so it's good to keep them in shape."

You know what? ......That's a really good point! How silly of me to not
really think about that!! (

The main reason I started lifting weights was to build muscle to help my
BG
levels and to also burn more calories while at rest!!
JEeeeeeeeezZZZzzz! what an idiot I've been!

Thanks for bringing this up!.......I guess it's time to chart out a good
lower body routine!

BTW, my legs are still killing me from those squats!! hehehehe

Mind you.......it's a "nice" ache


Yes, it's a good pain. Squats tend to get you right where the hamstring and
glute meet. I always have sore butt the day after doing barbell squats if I
do them right

Really if you just did the leg press one day and the squats on a different
day that would work out. You don't need to work them to death. I don't
squat to failure, but if I'm not doing cardio after lifting then I might get
on the press (or curl or extension) and rep out.

Weightlifting is an awesome way to increase metabolism but it only works
with diet and cardio in a full program. It also helps with bone density.
The one major piece of advice I can give from experience is don't skimp on
the stretching afterward!!! It sounds like you have a really decent overall
program for yourself which is why you're doing so well.
--
the volleyballchick


  #18  
Old July 29th, 2006, 02:09 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
rmr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

The only people I've met who scoff the machines are ones who either don't
know how to use them properly or feel like it makes them "cool" to do so.


Isn't that just one of the blanket statements you hate so much? I
think there's a good deal of discussion on the subject. With all sorts
of people on both sides of the arguement. Take a look on google if you
don't believe me.

Ray


  #19  
Old July 29th, 2006, 02:47 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
rmr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

I don't simply ignore things that misinform.

Me neither. Can you explain why I misinformed please and drop the
personal attacks.

If you are so dead against misinformation why didn't you reply to the
OP. Or do you suggest that we all train one set to failure?

Ray
  #20  
Old July 29th, 2006, 02:53 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 615
Default How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?


"rmr" wrote in message
...
The only people I've met who scoff the machines are ones who either don't
know how to use them properly or feel like it makes them "cool" to do so.


Isn't that just one of the blanket statements you hate so much? I
think there's a good deal of discussion on the subject. With all sorts
of people on both sides of the arguement. Take a look on google if you
don't believe me.

Ray


I believe it, I was just stating my personal experience. I did not say "the
only people who scoff the machines" (a blanket statement) but instead "the
only people *I've met*."

I was an English teacher. I know the difference. I've been on Usenet for
nearly 15 years and understand the need to word my statements carefully to
remove as much ambiguity as possible.

It's been my *personal experience* that those who scoff the machines end up
telling me things like I'm not a "serious" weightlifter as if they are some
kind of authority on the subject. There are plenty of serious lifters who
win things like Olympic events and use machines as part of their training
regimen.

To me, weightliting is a lot like rock climbing. When done properly with
correct form (and a good spotter or belayer) it's fun and challenging. It's
not something you just guess at. Injuries are mostly (but certainly not
always) a result of doing things the wrong way on a regular basis and it
eventually coming back to bite you in the butt. In rock climbing, a bad
knot might hold 9 out of 10 times but I certainly wouldn't want to be there
on #10.

Even when people know what they're doing, eventually research will bear out
the need for change. It used to be common practice for lifters to do a wide
grip lat pulldown behind the neck until it became apparent that it lead to
more neck and shoulder injuries. The same muscles can be worked by coming
down in front of the head with less risk of injury.

The guys at my gym use the Smith machine for ab work by hanging from their
knees from the top bar. It's not proper use of the machine and obviously
the risk of injury is much higher. I've done it myself but my hip flexors
don't care for it and I'm not supposed to do crunches.
--
the volleyballchick


 




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