A first post

Hello,

New to this group - but thought I'd post my experience of the past
month to see if it rings true with anyone. Since March 1st, I've stuck
- not rigorously - to a low carb type diet. Started at 176 pounds,
looking only to shed about 20 pounds.

I'm actually moving away from the UK by the end of the month, so have
been meeting up with friends etc. which has meant not necessarily
sticking to "first principles". Effectively of the 21 days of dieting
I've had 7 days where I've not followed "rules" in the evening.

That aside, I've dropped from 176 to 167 pounds in 3 weeks, going for
a target of 157 pounds, so I'm almost half way. I've found that,
several times, after 2-3 days of behaving myself and sticking to low-
carb I am very tired, almost achy and more annoyingly, dizzy - which
I've read are the symptoms of "induction flu" amongst other names. I
drink a lot of water - 5 pints a day - and have potassium tablets also
which don't necessarily seem to do that much to help.

I am just wondering whether if I have off days and then get back on
the low-carb wagon, will I always feel like this after 2-3 days of no
carbs, and does it require a complete sticking to low-carb way of life
to remove these off-days from your system?

Cheers,
Richard

Richard Dixon wrote:

Started at 176 pounds, looking only to shed about 20 pounds.

Exactly how did you select your goal weight? It is extremely easy to
pick a weight that is below what your body chemistry targets as its
perferred/ideal weight. Do that and you're setting yourself up for
endless hunger to keep it off. Set your goal weight at or above that
and maintenance can end up hunger free. Anyways, the reason I asked is
simple sources like life insurance tables tend to list a number that's
10 pounds too low. Men tend to overstate their height and women tend to
understate their weight and that puts a 10 pound bias in those tables.

That aside, I've dropped from 176 to 167 pounds in 3 weeks, going for
a target of 157 pounds, so I'm almost half way.

Much of the early loss is water. The body stores carbs by disolving
glycogen in water. When the stored carbs are burned for fuel and not
replaced by dietary carbs the water it was dissolved in also goes away.
The later fat only loss is on a slower time scale.

This combination of facts is both good and bad. It's good because the
early rapid loss is welcomed by beginners. It's bad because if you
don't know what's happening you might expect later loss to be at that
rate as well. The stored glycogen and the water it is stored in are
both very limited compared to the slower and larger store of fat.

There's no good way to estimate how much of those initial 9 pounds are
fat. Folks with 100+ to lose can drop 2+ per week of actual fat
without hunger. Folks with 20- to lose can drop 1+ per month of actual
fat without hunger. The loss rate in weeks 5-6 give a good estimate but
not sticking to low carb means you're currently cycling in week 0
without weeks 5-6 to give you data.

I've found that,
several times, after 2-3 days of behaving myself and sticking to low-
carb I am very tired, almost achy and more annoyingly, dizzy - which
I've read are the symptoms of "induction flu" amongst other names. I
drink a lot of water - 5 pints a day - and have potassium tablets also
which don't necessarily seem to do that much to help.

I am just wondering whether if I have off days and then get back on
the low-carb wagon, will I always feel like this after 2-3 days of no
carbs, and does it require a complete sticking to low-carb way of life
to remove these off-days from your system?

It can take anywhere from 0-14 days for the clean up to finish. The odd
thing is the time it takes can be different each time there's a restart
so what happened the first time you started low carbing does not
automatically apply the second time. It's something I've seen reported
by a lot of folks over the years.

The Atkins Induction program does state that one bite does hurt (in the
1972, 1993 and 1999 editions at least. I don't recall if the 2002
edition also contained that statement). It's true that a strict start
works well.

On the other hand body builders sometimes do a cycle of weekdays low
carb and weekends low fat. Some do two weeks of low carb then 1-2 days
of low fat. It's also extremely effective because of how the hormones
work. For folks who get low energy from the switch to ketones doing a
cycle like that seems to me like a huge amount of extra work with little
short term gain.

Uhmm, "no carb"? Just checking that you don't mean this in any literal
sense. Low carb does not equal no carb. There's a huge difference
between the mostly veggie based diet specified by every low carb book
out there and the no carb all fish and seal meat diet of the few Inuits
who still live the traditional hunting lifestyle out on the ice. I hope
you mean none of the high carb foods like white potatoes or grains and
you have replaced those foods with low carb options like salads and
cauliflower.

On 22 Mar, 17:46, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Richard Dixon wrote:

Started at 176 pounds, looking only to shed about 20 pounds.

Exactly how did you select your goal weight? *It is extremely easy to
pick a weight that is below what your body chemistry targets as its
perferred/ideal weight. *Do that and you're setting yourself up for
endless hunger to keep it off. *Set your goal weight at or above that
and maintenance can end up hunger free. *Anyways, the reason I asked is
simple sources like life insurance tables tend to list a number that's
10 pounds too low. *Men tend to overstate their height and women tend to
understate their weight and that puts a 10 pound bias in those tables.

Phew - I was beginning to think this newsgroup was just a spam
wasteland. Thanks for the response. My goal weight is just based on
"what I weighed when I was about 27" - around 71kg - I was more like
67kg or so before then, but I chose a conservative goal. Sorry for
mixing weights !

That aside, I've dropped from 176 to 167 pounds in 3 weeks, going for
a target of 157 pounds, so I'm almost half way.

Much of the early loss is water. *The body stores carbs by disolving
glycogen in water. *When the stored carbs are burned for fuel and not
replaced by dietary carbs the water it was dissolved in also goes away.
The later fat only loss is on a slower time scale.

Thanks - I was aware of this and I agree although I've more room in my
jeans than on March 1st, so hopefully a fraction of this is fat.

I am just wondering whether if I have off days and then get back on
the low-carb wagon, will I always feel like this after 2-3 days of no
carbs, and does it require a complete sticking to low-carb way of life
to remove these off-days from your system?

It can take anywhere from 0-14 days for the clean up to finish. *The odd
thing is the time it takes can be different each time there's a restart
so what happened the first time you started low carbing does not
automatically apply the second time. *It's something I've seen reported
by a lot of folks over the years.

Given that I'm moving to Ireland next week and there'll be a few
welcome drinks etc., it looks as though I'll have to keep cycling low-
carb on and off. At least the low carb idea has given me a new
approach to things, even though I won't see the full effect.

*I hope
you mean none of the high carb foods like white potatoes or grains and
you have replaced those foods with low carb options like salads and
cauliflower.

Indeed I have. I do a mean cauliflower mash !

Cheers,
Richard

x-noi-archive: yes

Richard Dixon wrote:

I'm hoping that the odd "off-day" doesn't mean my body has to go
through a re-acclimitisation every time !

Over time, I don't think odd off days will cause problems.

Odd off weeks or months can, or gradual carb creep.

Susan

Richard Dixon wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Exactly how did you select your goal weight?

Phew - I was beginning to think this newsgroup was just a spam
wasteland. Thanks for the response. My goal weight is just based on
"what I weighed when I was about 27" - around 71kg - I was more like
67kg or so before then, but I chose a conservative goal.

There are a lot of different ways to make a rational goal as an estimate
of what your body chemistry will consider its ideal weight so it doesn't
fight your efforts. One of them is what you weighed at age 24.

Given that I'm moving to Ireland next week and there'll be a few
welcome drinks etc.

Guinness is the same or slightly lower carb than other good beers. At
about 15 grams for a glass I can have one and stay under my maintenance
quota of 100 easily. Or I can have one and stay under my losing quota
of 50 by eating only foods on the Induction list for that day. I
rarely have more than one drink in the same day, 2-4 times per year.

it looks as though I'll have to keep cycling low-
carb on and off. At least the low carb idea has given me a new
approach to things, even though I won't see the full effect.

You won't necessarily need to cycle if you limit your beers to one per
day. There's also a type of magic carb-free beer. It's a substitute
but folks do sometimes develop a taste for it. It's made from the same
ingredients as beer in a process that removes the carbs. It comes in
concentrated form. Just add water to reconstitute back to beer
strength or dilute it less and sip it more carefully. It's called
whiskey. I've heard it's available in Eire these days. ;^) Just don't
mix it with sugar in that coffee recipe or your carb quota will go
completely out the window!

On Mar 23, 11:03*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Richard Dixon wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Exactly how did you select your goal weight?

Phew - I was beginning to think this newsgroup was just a spam
wasteland. Thanks for the response. My goal weight is just based on
"what I weighed when I was about 27" - around 71kg - I was more like
67kg or so before then, but I chose a conservative goal.

There are a lot of different ways to make a rational goal as an estimate
of what your body chemistry will consider its ideal weight so it doesn't
fight your efforts. *One of them is what you weighed at age 24.

Given that I'm moving to Ireland next week and there'll be a few
welcome drinks etc.

Guinness is the same or slightly lower carb than other good beers. *At
about 15 grams for a glass I can have one and stay under my maintenance
quota of 100 easily. Or I can have one and stay under my losing quota
of 50 by eating only foods on the Induction list for that day. I
rarely have more than one drink in the same day, 2-4 times per year.

it looks as though I'll have to keep cycling low-
carb on and off. At least the low carb idea has given me a new
approach to things, even though I won't see the full effect.

You won't necessarily need to cycle if you limit your beers to one per
day. *There's also a type of magic carb-free beer. *It's a substitute
but folks do sometimes develop a taste for it. *It's made from the same
ingredients as beer in a process that removes the carbs. *It comes in
concentrated form. Just add water to reconstitute back to beer
strength or dilute it less and sip it more carefully. It's called
whiskey. I've heard it's available in Eire these days. ;^) Just don't
mix it with sugar in that coffee recipe or your carb quota will go
completely out the window!

The unanswered questions here are what LC plan is he following, how
many carbs a day he's at, what he's eating, etc.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:20:30 -0400, Susan wrote:

x-noi-archive: yes

Richard Dixon wrote:

I'm hoping that the odd "off-day" doesn't mean my body has to go
through a re-acclimitisation every time !

Over time, I don't think odd off days will cause problems.

Odd off weeks or months can, or gradual carb creep.

Susan

Those "carb creeps" are the bane of my existence!
---
Peter