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#11
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Guys that workout in here pls
Liam - good that you are not trying to do low-fat and low-carb. That usually
doesn't work well, or work for long. You also might want to listen to Jimmie Moore's interview with Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a trainer who uses and endorses a reduced-carb diet, as so many do not. I think you might like this. This is the general URL for his podcast. You'll need to page down (and eventually go to the archives) to find the Eric Morrison interview. http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/ I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or harsh. I maybe was being a bit condescending, I'll admit. The standard on this ng has always been pretty high in terms of expecting newcomers to have already done a fair amount of homework. The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you. Liam I hope you stick around. The people remaining her have years and years of experience at LC'ing. You'll get some of the best, most imformed information on the internet. You probably need to work on developing a little thicker skin... usenet is almost by definition a little wild and wooly. But as far as I'm concerned you're quite welcome here. Hannah "Liam T." wrote The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the diet allows all the olive oil you want) Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and do a little cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it. |
#12
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Guys that workout in here pls
"Liam T." wrote:
Induction is 2 weeks ... My doctor often stretches the induction (its a metabolic diet) so indeed I'm following the instructions and reading the book. You understand that's in direct conflict with intensity of exercise, right? There are reasons for staying at 20 for longer than 14 days but none of those reasons center around either loss rates or exercise intensity. But it is your choice to have directions that interfere with exercise intensity. Shrug, work on endurance on that treadmill for the nonce. Any of the metabolic reasons tend to work just as well on OWL as on Induction. The reason is ketonuria. As long as you're in ketonuria your body is burning fat as its primary fuel plus it's burning fat fast enough to generate not just ketones (ketosis does this but can be hard to detect) but ketones at a high enough level to show in the urine. Once in ketonuria it's unusual for further carb reduction to make metabolic differences. Fat can be burned slowly into acetyl-CoA without ketones, quickly with ketones that are hard to detect, very quickly with ketones enough to show in the urine. Ketonuria is about a subtle difference between that quickly and very quickly, but it happens to be a distinction that's easy to test. Remember that OWL starts with a march of weekly increases in carb quota until you fall out of ketonuria (CCLL being 5-10 below that point to be just barely in ketonuria to avoid metabolic defenses against low carb to develop) then a bit low to pop back into ketonuria then cruise at CCLL in ketonuria. If the goal of your doc's plan is to be in ketonuria then he or she is the one that needs to read the book. It's disgusting how few doctors have a clue about the 4 phases of Atkins, even the ones that are pro low carb. Okay. *And grams or calories of fat? *All I can guess from your description is not enough. The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the diet allows all the olive oil you want) Very cool. If you work the carb and protein numbers then fill with fat to reach a reasonable total calories it generally comes out 3 digits for the gram number. It doesn't get much press but when you work the numers for yourself nearly everyone comes out to 3 digit fat grams. I don't accept that fat grams from olive oil beat fat grams from animal sources but that's a topic about types of fatty acid that's its own entire thread. Still, I have read at least one study that said a gram for gram or calorie for calorie substitution replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats does give better loss rates. So there doesn't seem to be a down side to doing it that way other than extra effort. Are you losing muscle? Nope. *High fat low carb ensures that. Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and *do a little cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it. Slow but sure wins the race. Build up and see how the endurance does a gradual build up past your pre-start level. Once at closer to 50 carb grams see how your peak weights aren't any different that your pre-start levels. |
#13
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Guys that workout in here pls
. You also might want to listen to Jimmie Moore's interview with
Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a trainer who uses and endorses a reduced-carb diet, as so many do not. I think you might like this. This is the general URL for his podcast. You'll need to page down (and eventually go to the archives) to find the Eric Morrison interview. http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/ Thanks for this link, I found the interview interesting, from what I understood he has a "carbo cheat day" which I guess can be contoversial for many into low carbs. I heard about it before with either the "ketogenic diet" of Lyle McDonald or Body Opus from Dan Duchaine. You go low carb during the week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout on Mondays.... Apparently Eric Morrison is in my neck of the woods...so I might look him up. I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or harsh. I maybe was being a bit condescending, I'll admit. The standard on this ng has always been pretty high in terms of expecting newcomers to have already done a fair amount of homework. I respect that you say this, I appreciate it. The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you. Sorry for this misunderstanding....(I'm blaming the induction Liam I hope you stick around. The people remaining her have years and years of experience at LC'ing. . But as far as I'm concerned you're quite welcome here. Thank you kindly, I'm scrambling like crazy to get the maximum info that is out there....my personal Doc was about to fire me unless I was going to start taking blood pressure pills, which I really don't want to take, family ,stress etc Fortuntely with in 4 days of starting the diet my BP dropped to normal (diuretic effect of low carb) and I'm so excited, I want it to continue and keep it down and lose weight. Feels great.... This issue is really important for me now...thats why I'm asking left and right......and rushing You guys have tons of interesting info here....... Anyhow ..thanks will talk to you latter ;-) Hannah "Liam T." wrote The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the diet allows all the olive oil you want) Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and *do a little cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it. |
#14
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Guys that workout in here pls
You understand that's in direct conflict with intensity of exercise, right? *There are reasons for staying at 20 for longer than 14 days but none of those reasons center around either loss rates or exercise intensity. *But it is your choice to have directions that interfere with exercise intensity. *Shrug, work on endurance on that treadmill for the nonce. Thanks, I have changed my routine and started with the weights first and can get a real good workout , I do the treadmill and the reclined bike afterwards with less intensity but its ok......I'll talk to my Doc and find out more details ...... Any of the metabolic reasons tend to work just as well on OWL as on Induction. *The reason is ketonuria. *As long as you're in ketonuria your body is burning fat as its primary fuel plus it's burning fat fast enough to generate not just ketones (ketosis does this but can be hard to detect) but ketones at a high enough level to show in the urine. *Once in ketonuria it's unusual for further carb reduction to make metabolic differences. Fat can be burned slowly into acetyl-CoA without ketones, quickly with ketones that are hard to detect, very quickly with ketones enough to show in the urine. Ketonuria is about a subtle difference between that quickly and very quickly, but it happens to be a distinction that's easy to test. Remember that OWL starts with a march of weekly increases in carb quota until you fall out of ketonuria (CCLL being 5-10 below that point to be just barely in ketonuria to avoid metabolic defenses against low carb to develop) then a bit low to pop back into ketonuria then cruise at CCLL in ketonuria. *If the goal of your doc's plan is to be in ketonuria then he or she is the one that needs to read the book. *It's disgusting how few doctors have a clue about the 4 phases of Atkins, even the ones that are pro low carb. I'll find out more about reasons as why he's working this way, in regards to the ketones I keep not showing them, perhaps I burn them up, don't know . I'm still losing lots and being strict, so whatever...... The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the diet allows all the olive oil you want) Slow but sure wins the race. *Build up and see how the endurance does a gradual build up past your pre-start level. *Once at closer to 50 carb grams see how your peak weights aren't any different that your pre-start levels. Thanks we'll see what happens......... |
#15
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Guys that workout in here pls
Liam T. wrote:
. You also might want to listen to Jimmie Moore's interview with Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a trainer who uses and endorses a reduced-carb diet, as so many do not. I think you might like this. This is the general URL for his podcast. You'll need to page down (and eventually go to the archives) to find the Eric Morrison interview. http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/ Thanks for this link, I found the interview interesting, from what I understood he has a "carbo cheat day" which I guess can be contoversial for many into low carbs. I heard about it before with either the "ketogenic diet" of Lyle McDonald or Body Opus from Dan Duchaine. You go low carb during the week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout on Mondays... You may want to Google the web (and this NG) for TKD - Targeted Ketogenic Diet. Although it may not be what you need, it is another option. Apparently Eric Morrison is in my neck of the woods...so I might look him up. I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or harsh. I maybe was being a bit condescending, I'll admit. The standard on this ng has always been pretty high in terms of expecting newcomers to have already done a fair amount of homework. I respect that you say this, I appreciate it. The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you. Sorry for this misunderstanding....(I'm blaming the induction Liam I hope you stick around. The people remaining her have years and years of experience at LC'ing. . But as far as I'm concerned you're quite welcome here. Thank you kindly, I'm scrambling like crazy to get the maximum info that is out there....my personal Doc was about to fire me unless I was going to start taking blood pressure pills, which I really don't want to take, family ,stress etc Fortuntely with in 4 days of starting the diet my BP dropped to normal (diuretic effect of low carb) and I'm so excited, I want it to continue and keep it down and lose weight. Feels great.... This issue is really important for me now...thats why I'm asking left and right......and rushing You guys have tons of interesting info here....... Anyhow ..thanks will talk to you latter ;-) Hannah "Liam T." wrote The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the diet allows all the olive oil you want) Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and do a little cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it. -- Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm |
#16
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Guys that workout in here pls
"Liam T." wrote:
... I found the interview interesting, from what I understood he has a "carbo cheat day" which I guess can be contoversial for many into low carbs. Weight lifters tend to do this type of cycle. It's not a cheat day - It's a switch from low carb to low fat and then back to low carb again. View it as a cheat day and there's little chance you'll get it right. The reason its controvertial is this - If you do view it as a cheat then it erodes your commitment to the plan. If you are subject to carb cravings when starting low carb (most are but not all) then you're putting yourself through the hardest part of the first year of low carbing again and again every week. I heard about it before with either the "ketogenic diet" of Lyle McDonald or Body Opus from Dan Duchaine. *You go low carb during the week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout on Mondays.... Biochemical reasons why this works. Note that weight lifters use it to push their body fat percentage down well below the ideal levels so question its use if that's not your goal. Look to studies of T3 thyriod levels of folks who stay at or below 20 for a long time and you'll see mention that T3 output goes down about two weeks in * My informal data says that actually depends on amount to lose but I'd need studies to move that bit from a hypothesis to a theory. Thus a one day switch from low carb to low fat and back keeps the T3 level high and thus the basal metabolism high. Also folks on Atkins who to the ketostix to measure their ketone output know the typical pattern of high output in the first two weeks then low output from then on - The weekly cycle attempts to keep the body in that initial over reaction and I think that's why they can push body fat percentage below ideal. Everything I've seen in long term low carbers who do mild systems like Atkins, Eades, South Beach (must learn how to spell Atagoston ...) is that anyone who doesn't do calorie reduction doesn't lose the last 10 pounds so low carbing alone won't drive folks below ideal weight or even to it. Some use the appetite suppression of low carbing to reduce appetite for the last 10, some use this cycling trick, some are happy enough with their loss they settle. Next is leptin. It's released by stored fat so the less stored fat the less leptin and the lower the loss rate. It's also released by the liver that somehow reflects the highest carb intake in the last few months. Stay too low, leptin from the liver eventually drives loss rate down to zero - That's just another reason why every plan out there increases carb quota over time or keeps it high the entire time. And again the cycling trick handles leptin by the weekly switch from low carb to low fat and back to low carb again. Since there's a weekly high carb day the liver's track of the highest carb intake in the last several months always has a high level. I consider cycling to be overkill and a way to handle not following the directions in the first place. I know it works and why, but I'd rather see folks march their carb quotas up on schedule than not. Giving yourself hormonal metabolic problems and then using cycling to cure those problems just doesn't seem right to me compared to not triggering those problems in the first place by following the schedule. I view the attitudes involved as too close to fad diet versus sustainable lifestyle change. The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you. It's also universally true good advice. Consider what went into writing each of the popular books - A decade or more of study and experimentation to find non-obvious actions that work better than the obvious. Then compare with the experience level and typical conclusion of newbies with a month of experience - So many newbies don't want to do the non-obvious steps because they think the obvious is the best course. The problem is nearly all newbies conclude that if low carb is good then lower carb is better - If that were actually true every single low carb book out there would teach exactly that. Fortuntely with in 4 days of starting the diet my BP dropped to normal (diuretic effect of low carb) and I'm so excited, I want it to continue and keep it down and lose weight. Feels great.... Doctor Atkins claimed that the single most predictable outcome of low carbing was reduced blood pressure. It's a strange claim from someone who made his living getting people to work on losing stored fat but it sure matches my experience of a decade reading what people report. |
#17
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Guys that workout in here pls
On Jul 19, 1:15*pm, "Liam T." wrote:
Hello There, Hi. Its a month that I started low carb, and I don't have energy to workout..... Not uncommon. I do the eliptical *for 10 minutes and I'm burned out, where before I could do 40 minutes at a higher bar. Elliptical is probably a less than ideal machine for you to do cardio with. Biking and dreadmill are both better and closer to physiologically correct. There is no real natural movement that corresponds to what people do on an elliptical. As such, it can be bad for the hips and knees, while feeling easier on these than the bike or the 'mill. FWIW: the dreadmill will also burn more calories for a given period and intensity. I can walk on the treadwill....... Okay. I can do some weights but not like before, seems i'm losing muscle.... Unlikely. I'm on induction , I eat lean meat salad, 4 cups veggie max, olive oil, no fruit milk starches pasta potatoes etc About 120 grms of protein a day, maybe 20 grms carb. Have read about the olive oil. don't worry about lean meat. waste of time/money. I am in the camp that read the book and gleaned that Induction could be extended in the case of more weight to lose. Could be extended out to six months, if I recall correctly. So, anyone who is telling you that it's 14 days, and not one minute longer, before you have to go to 25g of carbs and working in new food items, is missing something from the book. PS- is there really that big a difference between 20g and 25g? I haven't noticed anything. PPS- The increasing carb number in OWL is a ceiling (as is the 20 in Induction or the 40 in Protein Power Life Plan). It is not a mandatory daily achievement. My Doc says don't bother doing cardio to lose weight because I'm insulin resistant (i should do it for improing heart), says I should do weights to increase muscle and metabolism. Well reasoned. Not that the cardio can't be useful for general health and even weight loss. q.v. Intervals or HIIT. The best way to do cardio. I try to go workout everyday (i'm on a mission to bring my blood pressure down) You might look into lifting only 3 days a week, and at most, cardio type stuff on the other days. You could probably dump the cardio down to 2 days a week, on the days you don't lift. Lift with full body programs. And, as others have said, adaptation to fat burning takes time. Take it slow. You're going to feel weak for a bit. In time, it comes back. But I feel like i'm going nowhere, seems almost the more I try to workout , the less I'm losing weight? It's not just about the weight. It's about what's actually weighing you down. I'm gonna spare you the science and suggest that you're doing fine. In what way are you working out? Is it helping? Are you losing muscle? Not losing muscle. That's for sure. I do the treadmill, 20 minutes, with running intervals. I lift weights, full body workouts. I sometimes do circuits. I sometimes do slow lifts. I sometimes do dynamic lifts. Changing it up every month or so. It's very hard when you're just getting back into it from carb-ville. It takes time for your body to adjust to fat as fuel for this type of thing. Slow and steady wins the race. |
#18
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Guys that workout in here pls
I am in the camp that read the book and gleaned that Induction could be extended in the case of more weight to lose. Could be extended out to six months, if I recall correctly. So, anyone who is telling you Thanks for the reply.......the fellow here says he's been on induction a year : http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMKVNzj-RZE&feature=user You wouldn't know if this guy represents the Atkins foundation or is he a "Joe off the street" that decided to make all these videos? Dreadmill? LOL, I know what you mean..... |
#19
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Guys that workout in here pls
"Doug Freyburger" wrote .. Doctor Atkins claimed that the single most predictable outcome of low carbing was reduced blood pressure. It's a strange claim from someone who made his living getting people to work on losing stored fat but it sure matches my experience of a decade reading what people report. =============================================== Don't forget, Doug, that Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist before he became a diet guru. So he would be very likely to have focused on the BP-lowering effects of LC, as well as those involving weight loss. HG |
#20
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Guys that workout in here pls
I don't see anything there that indicates he is associated with Atkins and
he doesn't appear very professional. Liam T. wrote: | Thanks for the reply.......the fellow here says he's been on induction | a year : http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMKVNzj-RZE&feature=user | | You wouldn't know if this guy represents the Atkins foundation or is | he a "Joe off the street" that decided to make all these videos? | | Dreadmill? LOL, I know what you mean..... |
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