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#81
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
On 12 May 2004 17:27:06 GMT, Ignoramus20355
wrote: In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity , such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. No, that's because Jonathan Ball is an idiot. I've seen tons of people who aren't fat who have those three characteristics. Personally, I got fat due to injury (shoulder and ankle) and by eating the same amount I did when I was riding my bike. Then insulin resistance developed and carbs caused me to become depressed, leading to a viscious cycle. I have tremendous discipline, a tremendous amount of self respect and am very mature. -- Bob in CT Remove ".x" to reply |
#82
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Ignoramus20355 wrote:
In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? Of course. If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity, such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. Bad logic, pal; very much akin to the "all dogs are poodles" variety. Lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity don't necessarily lead to grotesque obesity, but examine a grotesquely obese person and you will always find lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity in appreciable concentration. The three emotional pathologies might lead to lots of bad outcomes; grotesque obesity is just one of the many. You need to learn to distinguish between necessity and sufficiency. Lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity are necessary for grotesque obesity, but not sufficient, which means that if you observe the obesity you'll always observe the emotional pathologies, but if you observe the emotional pathologies you won't necessarily observe the obseity. If you have truly got a grip on the weight problem, I imagine you have begun to acquire discipline and self respect, which will propel you on the road to maturity. I don't consider the emotional pathologies to be permanent handicaps. For example, I am a slim person at normal weight (I am saying so just so that you would not dismiss what I say as self excuses of a fat person). I used to be fat but lost weight by eating less and eating better and exercising. No great mystery to it, is there? No great mystery, no. What I would really like is, to remain slim and not be hungry after I ate enough for the day. Just like the "naturally slim" people. I don't know how long you've had a grip on your weight, but I would imagine that over time, you'll get there. i And yet, I am an overeater and have to apply a lot of efforts to not overeat. I limit my portions, even though at each meal I would like to eat more, I eat a lot of low calorie vegetables, keep down carbs, do not eat sugar etc. That's why I call myself a "naturally fat" person. There is no particular emotional reason for my overeating, and I am sure that I overeat becaus some metabolic function or another is not working right in my body. Whereas some people eat all they want, but fortunately they do not want all that much. So, saying that the only difference between fat people and slim people is "gluttony"and immorality is stupid and inhelpful in really understanding anything. I do realize that you get off by thinking that you are upsetting fat people, so the complexity of what I say may be lost on you, but hopefully some other people can identify with what I am describing. char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34); }";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." |
#83
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Bob in CT wrote:
On 12 May 2004 17:27:06 GMT, Ignoramus20355 wrote: In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity , such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. No, that's because Jonathan Ball is an idiot. I've seen tons of people who aren't fat who have those three characteristics. You make the same fundamental error of logic that Ignoramus does. Call lack of discipline, lack of self-respect and immaturity EP, for Emotional Pathologies. Obesity is O. Then EP is necessary, but not sufficient, for O. That is, if you see O, you will see EP (necessity); but if you see EP, you won't necessarily see O (sufficiency). Personally, I got fat due to injury (shoulder and ankle) and by eating the same amount I did when I was riding my bike. Then insulin resistance developed So you got REALLY fat. and carbs caused me to become depressed, leading to a viscious cycle. In other words, you consider yourself a victim of some external "forces". I have tremendous discipline, a tremendous amount of self respect and am very mature. Evidently not, or you would have caught it much earlier, and you wouldn't now be blathering about a "viscious [sic] cycle." |
#84
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
news Bob in CT wrote: On 12 May 2004 17:27:06 GMT, Ignoramus20355 wrote: In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity , such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. No, that's because Jonathan Ball is an idiot. I've seen tons of people who aren't fat who have those three characteristics. You make the same fundamental error of logic that Ignoramus does. Call lack of discipline, lack of self-respect and immaturity EP, for Emotional Pathologies. Obesity is O. Then EP is necessary, but not sufficient, for O. That is, if you see O, you will see EP (necessity); but if you see EP, you won't necessarily see O (sufficiency). Personally, I got fat due to injury (shoulder and ankle) and by eating the same amount I did when I was riding my bike. Then insulin resistance developed So you got REALLY fat. and carbs caused me to become depressed, leading to a viscious cycle. In other words, you consider yourself a victim of some external "forces". I have tremendous discipline, a tremendous amount of self respect and am very mature. Evidently not, or you would have caught it much earlier, and you wouldn't now be blathering about a "viscious [sic] cycle." Bob believes that there are evil external forces working against his weightloss "efforts". He doesn't believe that eating less would work for him. Don't try to use logic to reason with him as this has always failed in the past. |
#85
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Dreck the Fat **** wrote:
... My only replacement is aniseed balls. I use them as a substitute for the fags, but I must admit I do eat more during mealtimes That's because you lack discipline, fatso. I've incredible discipline, No, you've none. and my smoking quit goes some way in demonstrating that. Some way? How many times have you tried before but failed because you lack *discipline*? I've also heard that smoking can help people to be thin (maybe it just keeps the mouth busy) I'm hoping the quit will make me more active BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! More active than what -- what you were before you crippled yourself trying to lift engine blocks in front of the lads? Yes. I live in a wheelchair during the day. *playing my violin for you* and feel inclined to burn it off rather than diet. I've never really tried a *meaningful* or determined diet before. No kidding, slacker. Your existence is meaningless. ... My mum's a pink puffer :-( You're a blue-foot and a blue bloater. You should 've paid more attention to Pearl's message Nobody with a sound mind should heed that loony crank's message about anything. to you this afternoon before making a fool of yourself here. Why do attack disabled people like myself? I've never attacked your self-inflicted disabilities, just how you got them. ... |
#86
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Ignoramus20355 wrote:
In article k.net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Bob in CT wrote: On 12 May 2004 17:27:06 GMT, Ignoramus20355 wrote: In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity , such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. No, that's because Jonathan Ball is an idiot. I've seen tons of people who aren't fat who have those three characteristics. You make the same fundamental error of logic that Ignoramus does. Call lack of discipline, lack of self-respect and immaturity EP, for Emotional Pathologies. Obesity is O. Then EP is necessary, but not sufficient, for O. That is, if you see O, you will see EP (necessity); but if you see EP, you won't necessarily see O (sufficiency). Okay, consider me then. I was fat. According to you, it means that I was immature, lacked self respect and self discipline. But then I lost weight! I assue you that I did not become more mature, self disciplined and I always had a lot of self respect. If you lost the weight and kept it off through your own change of habits, rather than through surgery or some other externally-imposed method, then you undoubtedly DID gain self discipline, self respect and emotional maturity. That's a contradiction to your explanation of EP as a cause for O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." |
#87
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Thank you, Deb. I was going to ask if the world's problems have been solved
yet, and then go back to sleep. |
#88
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Ignoramus20355 wrote:
In article . net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: In article .net, Jonathan Ball wrote: Ignoramus20355 wrote: Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. That question has been long answered: lack of discipline lack of self respect immaturity Have you not seen undisciplined, non self-respecting, immature slim people? Of course. If what you mentioned was a real cause of obesity, such people would not exist. But, I see loads of such people. Bad logic, pal; very much akin to the "all dogs are poodles" variety. Lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity don't necessarily lead to grotesque obesity, but examine a grotesquely obese person and you will always find lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity in appreciable concentration. The three emotional pathologies might lead to lots of bad outcomes; grotesque obesity is just one of the many. Then how come those obese people sometimes lose weight. If they lose it by a change in "lifestyle" and keep it off, it's because they acquired the necessary self discipline, self respect and emotional maturity. I was not "grotesquely obese", but I was obese, and then I lost weight, and I assure you that no changes in my self respect or my self discipline level occurred. I bet there *were* such changes, if you lost the weight and have kept it off. http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/ What did change is that I decided that it was irrational to be fat and unhealthy. In other words, you began taking responsibility for yourself, rather than seeing yourself as some kind of "victim". That IS a change in self respect and a result of growing into an emotionally more mature person. How can you fail to see this? So I made some changes. I have not eaten a single piece of junk food or candy in almost a year, for example. Why?Because I _lack_self discipline. No, you *gained* the self discipline to enable you to refrain from the stuff. I know that eating "a little bit of candy" would set _me_ on a slippery slope. And yet, even though I lost weight, I still remain an overeater who has to struggle to not overeat and to not get too many calories. But due to having acquired some self discipline, you manage to resist. Why? Because something is screwed up in me in a way that is not screwed up in "naturally slim" people. I already eat "clean" and "healthy". That is the real cause of my obesity, not some emotional bull****. I am a very unemotional person who tried to rationally assess every situation. You need to learn to distinguish between necessity and sufficiency. Lack of discipline, lack of self respect and immaturity are necessary for grotesque obesity, but not sufficient, which means that if you observe the obesity you'll always observe the emotional pathologies, but if you observe the emotional pathologies you won't necessarily observe the obseity. If you have truly got a grip on the weight problem, I imagine you have begun to acquire discipline and self respect, which will propel you on the road to maturity. bull****, I have no more discipline than before, and no more self respect. You're wrong. This goes to show that you still have a considerable distance to travel on the road to emotional maturity, but you're on your way; don't look back. I just changed the way I eat. I had enough discipline to get good grades in college, finish my MBA degree at a prestigious university etc, and yet I was fat. There's self discipline, and then there's TOTAL self discipline. Few if any people are so totally self disciplined that they never make any mistakes. I don't consider the emotional pathologies to be permanent handicaps. I think that your theory is not based on quantifiable evidence. Very little of psycho-social observation is. That doesn't make it wrong. For example, I am a slim person at normal weight (I am saying so just so that you would not dismiss what I say as self excuses of a fat person). I used to be fat but lost weight by eating less and eating better and exercising. No great mystery to it, is there? No great mystery, no. What I would really like is, to remain slim and not be hungry after I ate enough for the day. Just like the "naturally slim" people. I don't know how long you've had a grip on your weight, but I would imagine that over time, you'll get there. Is there some evidence for that? I would really like to know if I would ever have normal appetite. I have been maintaining my weight with great success for 8 months, meaning that it was relativey stable. (with a slight downward trend this year as I am working on losing 10 more pounds in 2004). I have my complete weight history on my weight loss page. And yet, as I said, not overeating is always a struggle. Almost every day I want to overeat. Not by much, I am sure that I would be satisfied if I ate 20% more food. But, 20% more food would cause me to gain almost a pound per week. I lost 50 lbs, from 223 to 173. If somehow, you know from somewhere that people's appetites notmalize after a few years in maintenance, I would like you to post your sources. I don't know it. It's a hunch. |
#89
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Bob in CT wrote:
... I love it when people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about I do know what I'm talking about. There is no great mystery to weight loss. A cheeseburger of a given size provides the same number of calories to me as it does to you; moving your 120kg laterally for 4 miles on foot - that's called "walking", fatso - burns even *more* calories for you than it does for me (68kg). Well, considering that you apparently have no understanding of the Glycemic Index Apparently, neither do you -- at least its complete insignificance in choosing healthy foods. Why don't you eat carrots or drink orange juice? "Oh, because they cause an insulin spike." Well so does your cottage cheese, chubby. So does that butter-fried steak with melted cheese. So do your fried pork skins. Actually, butter-fried steak with melted cheese would not cause much of an insulin increase, Ipse dixit. Any dietary intake (other than water) in a normal person will result in serum glucose increase followed by a rise in insulin. That's nature. Too bad Dr Atkins never really grasped it. as insulin is primarily caused by carbs. Ipse dixit and an overly-simplistic explanation. First, you should distinguish between simple and complex carbohydrates. Second, you need to note that each of those causes a different surge in serum glucose levels and hence a different reaction in insulin response. Third, you're ignoring the fact that the body evolved to secrete insulin in response to food -- period. Etc. I don't eat carrots because they make my stomach upset and juices are the spawn of Satan -- there is nothing whatsoever good about juices. Juices usually contain vitamins and minerals (apple juice excluded). They can be part of a healthy diet in moderation. Eat fruit. One should eat fruit. It's high in fiber and contains (egads!) carbs which help the body function properly. Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. or the difference in how insulin resistant/diabetic people metabolize carbohydrates, Most people who use GI to determine what they can or cannot eat are not diabetic or anywhere near being insulin resistant. GI is one of the least scientific "tools" developed. Which baseline or list are you using anyway? What does GI have to do with insulin resistance? Ask Dawn. I disabused her of the error she made. One becomes insulin resistant for a variety of reasons, including the low fat, high carb diet I was on for many years. According to GI, al dente pasta has a low GI, but it causes my blood sugar to go through the roof. So does grapefruit, another supposedly low GI. These are totally separate things. Insulin resistance is problematic, and it has nothing to do with GI. You supported my point in a roundabout way, dummy. Now go eat some carbs so you can think straight. |
#90
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Oh, brother (I roll my eyes)
Ignoramus20355 wrote:
Face it, you're not fat 'cause you ate too many carrots or drank too much orange juice. You're fat because you don't get enough exercise and because you consume way too many calories. That fat people are fat because they eat too many calories is obvious, trivial, and uninteresting. The more interesting question is, what makes them eat more calories. Lack of discipline, lack of knowledge, moral weakness. For example, I am a slim person at normal weight (I am saying so just so that you would not dismiss what I say as self excuses of a fat person). I used to be fat but lost weight by eating less and eating better and exercising. And yet, I am an overeater and have to apply a lot of efforts to not overeat. I limit my portions, even though at each meal I would like to eat more, I eat a lot of low calorie vegetables, keep down carbs, do not eat sugar etc. Your inclination to overeat is a moral weakness. That's why I call myself a "naturally fat" person. I would call you an emotionally immature person or a person with flaws, but that would be politically incorrect. There is no particular emotional reason for my overeating, At least that you've established. and I am sure that I overeat becaus some metabolic function or another is not working right in my body. I'm sure that's a very convenient excuse for you (like so many others); talk about trivial and uninteresting, not to mention so common. Whereas some people eat all they want, but fortunately they do not want all that much. So, saying that the only difference between fat people and slim people is "gluttony"and immorality is stupid and inhelpful in really understanding anything. I'm sure it ruffles your feathers. Just remember that the truth may hurt, but lies hurt more. I do realize that you get off by thinking that you are upsetting fat people, I encourage you to go to Google and review some of my responses in aaev and afv encouraging those trying to lose weight. I'm honest, but I'm also positive. so the complexity of what I say may be lost on you, No, and it wasn't complex at all (it was quite simple, really). but hopefully some other people can identify with what I am describing. I'm sure they will since misery loves company. It's quite common to pass the buck from oneself to "nature." |
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