Remember Dr ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!

Luna wrote:

In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

Sorry. you are the ones acting like trolls.

you are the ones who started with me.

I do not have to prove myself. just google me. I have been on newsgroups for
a very long time and am very active.

I take **** from no one. that is why I have the policy of handling trolls
like you the way I do. I wear them out so they leave me alone.

Hey Chris, nice to meet you. You know how you can get a sense of tone from
people's posts? Even though it's just writing, I can "hear" a tone of
voice from the way people write, from the punctuation they use (exclamation
points indicate excitement, for example) the way they use grammar (formal
and stilted vs. loose and conversational) and of course the old standby's,
emoticons and capital letters.

From your tone of "voice" in your writing, you seem to take things very
seriously, and you seem quite combative. I understand the arguing approach
as opposed to the killfile approach, I very rarely killfile people myself,
and sometimes it can be really fun to argue and debate, even with so-called
"trolls" (a term I believe is applied all too loosely on usenet) But from
your tone, it doesn't sound like you are having fun in these arguments, and
they might actually be a source of stress for you. You seem to put a lot of
time and effort into responding to people who disagree with you in a very
emotional and vehement style, and I wonder if this writing style reflects
your state of mind? If so, may I suggest taking a step back and ask
yourself "Is it worth it to get so worked up over such trivial matters,
with people I've never even met who have nothing to do with my real life?"

The reason I'm butting in here is because I used to be way too involved
with an aspect of the internet, a chat room, and I took too many things to
heart and pushed way too hard in ongoing arguments that were, in essence,
about nothing important. I have quite a competitive personality,
especially in matters of debate, I can get very passionate about issues.
But I've found that I enjoy my life quite a bit more if I save that passion
for the things and people that really matter to me.


otherwise I am inviting them to keep it up if I give an inch.

If you want to keep incorrectly bottom posting FINE. I will not have a
problem with it no matter how annoying and rude I think it is.

What about posting smack dab in the middle of posts like I'm doing here?



but if your gonna get in my face about my proper posting them I will dish it
back till YOU give up. I will not give. I do not care how long it takes nor
how many posts it takes.

anything less invites you to easily troll me again in the future. if I
hammer the **** out of you till you SUBMIT now you will be very reluctant to
troll me in the future. Too much work so to speak.

you can make it easy. just leave me alone pure and simple.

THEIR IS NO OTHER POSSIBLE SOLUTION. I will not permit it. it is the only
way to handle trolls like you. its a lot of work but it is effective.

I do not care what you THINK I look like. when you leave me alone I will
have won. that is my goal. if it takes 10 posts fine. it is takes 10 million
posts. so be it. somehow I think I am a little more patient or at least
stubborn than you.

Your move. replying means you want to take it to the mat. no reply means a
stalemate and I am fine with that. My goal will have been achieved.

Have you ever stopped to ask if it is a worthy goal? Does it really matter
if you beat someone else into submission on a newsgroup over matters of
grammar and proper posting? Is that something you will look back on in
your old age as a great accomplishment? Chris, you have so much passion and
conviction, and people like that are rare in this world. If you channeled
that passion into something bigger, something with more worth to yourself
and the rest of the world, you could do really great things with your life.






Being able to take a step back from my previous way of dealing with the
internet, and being able to laugh at how seriously I was taking everything,
and realizing that I have so much more important things to concentrate my
energies on was the first step towards having a more balanced, productive
and happy life. I'm not trying to preach to you here, I just see a lot of
how I used to be in the way you react to things, and this is a support
group after all.

that was a nice post, Michelle.

Mathilda Jane wrote:

Bob Pastorio wrote in message

I feel slighted. I pointed out that the FAQ, the Very FAQ, the One
True FAQ for the newsgroup misc.writing is set up to have double
spaces after periods and she didn't even sneer and tell me that the
thousands of professional writers who've come through the group are
out of step with her brave, new world. I guess none of them write for
every newspaper, magazine and book publisher in the universe.


No, they're probably just a bunch of middle-aged hangers-on like the rest of
you who are set in their ways and can't bear to move beyond what you were
taught in the 6th grade.

Bwahahahahaha. Look, she *did* tell me they're out of step with her
brave new world.

"Probably..." They're *professional* and *published* actual *writers*
unlike yourself. You know, actual practitioners of what you wish you
could do. Perhaps you could steer us to a list of your publications
instead of merely your sermons.

I love theoreticians like you Mathilda. You preach and harangue and
insist and demean and finally crash on the rocks of your own limits.
You want the world to be your way but nobody else wants it. So you
try to bludgeon and smash and demand and still make no progress. And
you can't seem to see that the rigid "truth" you're trying to peddle
is another construct, arbitrary in it's conception and arbitrary in
its implementation. Like all language and all language "rules."

Pastorio

Mathilda Jane wrote:

Steve wrote in message

Fortunately she hasn't discovered "Why do you hate
me?" or "Why do you hate the one space rule?", but these tactics can't
be far behind :-)

So you admit that one space is a rule?

We're getting there.

Hey Steve. She has already mastered the Chung technique.

Next she'll be praying for you.

Pastorio

"Bob Pastorio" wrote in message
...
Mathilda Jane wrote:

Steve wrote in message

Fortunately she hasn't discovered "Why do you hate
me?" or "Why do you hate the one space rule?", but these tactics can't
be far behind :-)

So you admit that one space is a rule?

We're getting there.

Hey Steve. She has already mastered the Chung technique.

Next she'll be praying for you.

Pastorio


Maybe it is Chung in drag.

Chris

Yes I do tend to take things seriously. I am about as bad as it gets when it
comes to humor (worse) so when in doubt I take things literally at face
value.

More below


Hey Chris, nice to meet you. You know how you can get a sense of tone
from
people's posts? Even though it's just writing, I can "hear" a tone of
voice from the way people write, from the punctuation they use
(exclamation
points indicate excitement, for example) the way they use grammar (formal
and stilted vs. loose and conversational) and of course the old standby's,
emoticons and capital letters.

Nice to meet you to. I understand about tone. I tend to EMPHASIZE a lot with
caps :-) its easy just rest my pinky on the shift key and go. I tend to do
that a LOT when I type on usenet.

From your tone of "voice" in your writing, you seem to take things very
seriously, and you seem quite combative. I understand the arguing
approach
as opposed to the killfile approach, I very rarely killfile people myself,
and sometimes it can be really fun to argue and debate, even with
so-called
"trolls" (a term I believe is applied all too loosely on usenet) But from
your tone, it doesn't sound like you are having fun in these arguments,
and
they might actually be a source of stress for you. You seem to put a lot
of
time and effort into responding to people who disagree with you in a very
emotional and vehement style, and I wonder if this writing style reflects
your state of mind? If so, may I suggest taking a step back and ask
yourself "Is it worth it to get so worked up over such trivial matters,
with people I've never even met who have nothing to do with my real life?"


I agree but I have a desire to enjoy this forum and that means its worth
fighting for.

People here starting attacking me. not the other way arround. these are
usenet bullies.

Now the passive solution is to go away. but that would be counter to goal #1
IE enjoy this forum.

I am not trying to win the grammar debate or the punctuation debate. I am
trying to win the right to post here without bullies antagonizing me. That
means I have to put a nasty taste in their mouths so they will NOT want to
bother me. make them realize that bothering me will entail a massive
extended fight.

in other forums this works well. the bullies find out I will never back down
without their submission. they leave me alone. after a week or so things
quite down and I am left alone to participate in friendly conversation.


The reason I'm butting in here is because I used to be way too involved
with an aspect of the internet, a chat room, and I took too many things to
heart and pushed way too hard in ongoing arguments that were, in essence,
about nothing important. I have quite a competitive personality,
especially in matters of debate, I can get very passionate about issues.
But I've found that I enjoy my life quite a bit more if I save that
passion
for the things and people that really matter to me.

I agree I can too. (get to involved etc..) that is why you will never see
me discuss spelling grammar or posting style UNLESS I am first attacked on
the issue.



otherwise I am inviting them to keep it up if I give an inch.

If you want to keep incorrectly bottom posting FINE. I will not have a
problem with it no matter how annoying and rude I think it is.

What about posting smack dab in the middle of posts like I'm doing here?

this is called intersperced posting. this is fine. I do this as well when
the topic has MANY points of reply and issues to be handled. IE it changes
from a part of a thread to an entire complex letter all its own. in which
case mixing it up like this is FAR more effecient. you will note you are not
bottom posting at that in this instance would be just as nuts as top
posting. too many points to be processed all in one place. you need to
intersperce the replies etc..

Your move. replying means you want to take it to the mat. no reply means
a
stalemate and I am fine with that. My goal will have been achieved.

Have you ever stopped to ask if it is a worthy goal? Does it really
matter
if you beat someone else into submission on a newsgroup over matters of
grammar and proper posting? Is that something you will look back on in
your old age as a great accomplishment? Chris, you have so much passion
and
conviction, and people like that are rare in this world. If you channeled
that passion into something bigger, something with more worth to yourself
and the rest of the world, you could do really great things with your
life.


Over matters of grammar and punctuation and proper posting. absolutely not.
those issuer are already memories. my goal is to make sure I can post here
freely. that is my goal and that goal is worth fighting for. I need to make
sure that they know that I will not be pushed around. otherwise they will
plauge me and prevent me from enjoying this forum.

Being able to take a step back from my previous way of dealing with the
internet, and being able to laugh at how seriously I was taking
everything,
and realizing that I have so much more important things to concentrate my
energies on was the first step towards having a more balanced, productive
and happy life. I'm not trying to preach to you here, I just see a lot of
how I used to be in the way you react to things, and this is a support
group after all.

I used to get into massive arguments and threads as well. I agree it just
HIT me one night that I have WASTED HUNDREDS of hours of my precious life
doing what ? arguing on a newsgroup ? pretty hard to think of a larger waste
of what little life I have.

but when the arguments interfere withmy ability to enjoy a forum then I have
to do something. the choice is leave the forum or fight to stay. I chose to
fight as this topic (low carbing) is important enough to me to fight for.

if people would just leave me alone we would not have any problems.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

A very nice post indeed I hope the others take it to heart.

I would much rather enjoy this forum than fight. but I will fight to protect
my enjoyable access to this forum.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Being able to take a step back from my previous way of dealing with the
internet, and being able to laugh at how seriously I was taking
everything,
and realizing that I have so much more important things to concentrate
my
energies on was the first step towards having a more balanced,
productive
and happy life. I'm not trying to preach to you here, I just see a lot
of
how I used to be in the way you react to things, and this is a support
group after all.

that was a nice post, Michelle.

I don't understand that. No one has the power to keep you from posting
here. Maybe if people really are bullying you, by fighting back you just
make them want to fight you more. If someone truly is a troll, then their
goal is to get you to respond, and if you continue to fight with them then
they've won, they've reached their goal. Being ignored is the one thing
that trolls can't stand, and the one thing that will get you fastest to
your goal, i.e. them leaving you alone. If I see someone being picked on
or insulted in real life, and they just walk on by like they barely even
notice it, then they look like they're the better person, the stronger
person, they have enough dignity to give the silent message "I am too good
for this kind of crap." But if they respond and fight back, they look weak
and scared. Who cares what some idiot says about you or to you? Maybe
fighting back eventually tires out a bully so that they move on to another
target, but the message it sends to those watching the fight is that the
person being bullied has given weight to what the bullies say, it sends the
message to the bully of "I respect you enough to think what you're saying
is important enough for me to respond to." It doesn't even matter what
the response IS, just the fact that there is a response makes it look like
you're not secure enough to ignore someone who should mean nothing to you.
Ignoring trolls and bullies and limiting your posts to helping people who
DO matter to you, asking for help from people you DO respect, and posting
to share your personal experiences with low-carb would make give you a
reputation of being an intelligent, warm, kind and dignified person, and
all you have to go on in the Internet is your reputation. Don't just think
about the effect your posts have on bullies, consider the people lurking
here who may be ignoring you because they see you as "that guy who won't
stop arguing about top posting." It would be a shame for those people to
miss out on what you have to say about more important things. Everyone has
the power to create the impression they make. In our non-conformist
society it is popular and clichéd to say "I don't care what other people
think" but caring about what other people think is part of what makes us
part of human society. It's up to each individual to decide WHICH people's
opinions of them matter, for instance, I don't care what a troll on usenet
thinks of me, but I DO care if my best friend respects me.


In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

A very nice post indeed I hope the others take it to heart.

I would much rather enjoy this forum than fight. but I will fight to protect
my enjoyable access to this forum.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Being able to take a step back from my previous way of dealing with the
internet, and being able to laugh at how seriously I was taking
everything,
and realizing that I have so much more important things to concentrate
my
energies on was the first step towards having a more balanced,
productive
and happy life. I'm not trying to preach to you here, I just see a lot
of
how I used to be in the way you react to things, and this is a support
group after all.

that was a nice post, Michelle.



--
-Michelle Levin (Luna)
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick
http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna

In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

ANSWER: Because Wayne says it is so and refuses to see logic.

QUESTION: Why bottom posting?

this is what is called circular logic or circular reasoning.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


"Wayne Crannell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

Does not work that way. the only way this will end is if you stop
replying
to me.

Call it dominance call it whatever you want. I call it making sure I win
so
you will be reluctant to screw with me in the future.

Bottom posting is rude inconsiderate and a waste of time.

I was on newsgroups long before Outlook Express existed.

Outlook Express was one of the FEW things microsoft did right (at least
the
small part about top posting)

Before OE I had to manually place my reply at the top where it belongs.

OE makes posting a lot easier.

I wish it could REVERSE people bottom posting for me. would make reading
newsgroups SO much easier.

IT is amazing annoying to follow threads when everyone bottom posts.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

ANSWER: Because Chris Taylor says it is so and refuses to see logic.

QUESTION: Why top posting?

.questions the before come answers the where conversation a have Let's
.me to logical Sounds.

--
Wayne Crannell
Atkins+ 10/27/01
250/139


(We all note the need to read the top of this post and then scroll to
the middle to read that to which Chris is reacting. It is a shame that
his response is so tepid that it is hardly worth the trouble to search
out the thread of what he believes constitutes logic.)

Chris, how DO you reign in such towering intellect? Had I known your
response would have been so facund, I would have prepared myself more
carefully.

By the way, I'm still waiting for a response to the point of my post. Or
did it escape your adolescent mental processes (a term I obviously
employ loosely in your case)? Nevertheless, reading only a few of your
posts does make it abundantly clear that your predilection for top
posting does make render your inane rambling so inpenetrable as to leave
the reader comatose.

Chris, you might want to stick to web design, since it is so clearly a
strength. (That was sarcasm, Chris.) No really Chris, I'm quite sure
that using your web site as something akin to a real-time, online
yardstick of your design abilities just brings in the customers to you
in droves. Did you know, Chris, that your link to "Web design Services"
is broken? (Interesting choice in capitalization, by the way.) You
intended this some sort of existential cosmic irony, no doubt.

Seriously Chris, if you expect to keep up with people around here like
Bob or Mathilda, the latter of whom, in spite of being something of a
pain in the ass, is clearly articulate and intelligent, if not a little
obdurate, you are simply going to have to risk a bit more of that
intellectual capital you are so convinced you have.

Keep working on that web site.....it is SO close.
--
Wayne Crannell

In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:


in other forums this works well. the bullies find out I will never back down
without their submission. they leave me alone. after a week or so things
quite down and I am left alone to participate in friendly conversation.


What you fail to realize is that anything you type in "friendly
conversation" is colored by the personality you have established in
these other threads. A history of inarticulate statements and weak logic
causes the reader to dismiss your posts as insignificant, even though
you may have good points to make.

But then again, you don't care. Makes one wonder why you fight so hard
for the right to post (which you have always had) if you care so little
about the responses you get? Could it be that intelligent discourse for
you is made up of only what YOU think?

A pity to be so young and have so little left to learn.
--
Wayne Crannell

Chris Taylor Jr wrote:

A very nice post indeed I hope the others take it to heart.

you're an idiot, Chris. i mean that in the nicest possible way.

go back and read her post a few more times, and then take her advice.