Remember Dr ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!

In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

I used to get into massive arguments and threads as well. I agree it just
HIT me one night that I have WASTED HUNDREDS of hours of my precious life
doing what ? arguing on a newsgroup ? pretty hard to think of a larger waste
of what little life I have.

Ah, in this case a few words are worth a thousand pictures.

No one is preventing you from posting anything, so there is really
nothing to fight for. We're just waiting for something....anything that
actually contributes to the discussion.

Respect is earned. The expectation that people will take you seriously
is earned. In this case, these things are earned with articulate, honest
posts that acknowledge the fact that there are other people on the other
end of them. On Usenet, that's all we have to judge the value of a
person's posts.

I know....you don't care.

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care an awful lot.
--
Wayne Crannell

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:59:53 -0400, "Chris Taylor Jr"
announced in front of God and everybody:

Sorry. you are the ones acting like trolls.

you are the ones who started with me.

You do know what a "troll" on Usenet is, right? I mean, since you've
been doing this for soooooo long and all, you must.

One defintion apllies strongly to you:

"Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in
learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame
bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no
redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower
form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.""

I take **** from no one. that is why I have the policy of handling trolls
like you the way I do. I wear them out so they leave me alone.

See, I'm not the one who keeps yammering about top-posting being
correct (it's not) or about how great it is to write like a retarded
baboon (it's not).

Or who issues ultimatums about not stopping these things as long as
you're called on it (which is really funny, since it's so psycho).

You are, however, purposely dragging out conversations that have
nothing to do with the topic at hand, purely because you're enjoying
the attention. Why you enjoy being slapped around so much, I don't
know ... but it's a classic troll maneuver.

But then, with your long, long Usenet experience ... you know that.

Your move. replying means you want to take it to the mat. no reply means a
stalemate and I am fine with that. My goal will have been achieved.

You need to get over yourself and realize that every time you post,
you just seem stupider and stupider.

You've made yourself a laughingstock in this newsgroup. Not that you
care, of course. You LIKE for people to think you rude, illiterate and
stupid. Or at least that's what you keep insisting.

But I have no problem responding to a post or two of yours every day.
As long as it stays confined to this easily filtered, off-topic
thread, I'm fine with batting you around a little, until it gets
boring. I haven't encountered anyone as ill-mannered, clueless and
transparent as you for quite a long time.

Cheers,
Dawn

These people follow me from thread to thread.

They can not make me leave but they can make it very annoying and
uncomfortable to stay. they can coerce me into voluntarily leaving.

I am also a bit bullheaded about this sort of thing. Giving into them admits
defeat to me. I want them to LOSE with the result of them not wanting to
EVER screw with me again. if I make their life miserable (and mine as well)
the result is they leave me alone but it also results if I stick it out with
them leaving me alone in the future. IE too much trouble for their time.

Its probably pointless and probably an ego thing (on my part and theirs) to
at least some extent. but its also an issue of principles.

My "literacy" is not bad here. sure I make a lot of spelling errors but that
is sloppy typing not sloppy spelling. I turned on spell check once in OE and
very quickly turned it back off. I have been getting better. as my accuracy
catches up with my typing speed I make fewer mistakes.

I tend to forgo punctuation. its just not important to me on these kinds of
forums. that may and does annoy some people but it tends to ONLY become an
issue when an "argument" arrises. then it is used as canon fodder against me
otherwise it is almost never brought up.

I am coherent. sure there are technical errors galore but I am not hard to
understand until I get angry at which time I type even faster and sloppier
in an attempt to keep up with the onslaught and make many more errors.
sometimes my "thought" gets ahead of my hands and I skip words but because I
"thought" them I do not realize I missed them till I read my own post or
someone nitpicks it to death.

but if you read a normal post (not unlike this one) those massive errors are
not as present. I type as I think. so as the words appear in my mind my hand
types them. That is why I see newsgroups as "chit chat" because that is how
I use them.

I do not formulate thought. Revise correct and post.

I type thoughts as they are formed in my mind. problems occur when those
thoughts get ahead of my typing. I guess you could compare it to a CD
skipping ahead to catch up.

As I said though this usually only occurs in massive flame wars. I get angry
and sloppy especially as I try to reply to ever post (sometimes DOZENS at a
time) When I get into a flame war I tend to drift away from quality toward
quantity.

All I want is for them to leave me alone. to stay out of my way and let me
enjoy this forum.

That's all I want and I will fight visciously to aquire that goal if I have
to.

Its so much easier IRL When someone gets on my case (rare as I am a rather
large individual) I just give them a look or I hit them if it gets physical
(never has yet) Problems are solved decisively and quickly.

Online though the seperation of mind and body and distance and annonymity
gives people brass balls to bully and annoy other people (trolls)

it is most aggravating.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/





"Luna" wrote in message
...
I don't understand that. No one has the power to keep you from posting
here. Maybe if people really are bullying you, by fighting back you just
make them want to fight you more. If someone truly is a troll, then their
goal is to get you to respond, and if you continue to fight with them then
they've won, they've reached their goal. Being ignored is the one thing
that trolls can't stand, and the one thing that will get you fastest to
your goal, i.e. them leaving you alone. If I see someone being picked on
or insulted in real life, and they just walk on by like they barely even
notice it, then they look like they're the better person, the stronger
person, they have enough dignity to give the silent message "I am too good
for this kind of crap." But if they respond and fight back, they look
weak
and scared. Who cares what some idiot says about you or to you? Maybe
fighting back eventually tires out a bully so that they move on to another
target, but the message it sends to those watching the fight is that the
person being bullied has given weight to what the bullies say, it sends
the
message to the bully of "I respect you enough to think what you're saying
is important enough for me to respond to." It doesn't even matter what
the response IS, just the fact that there is a response makes it look like
you're not secure enough to ignore someone who should mean nothing to you.
Ignoring trolls and bullies and limiting your posts to helping people who
DO matter to you, asking for help from people you DO respect, and posting
to share your personal experiences with low-carb would make give you a
reputation of being an intelligent, warm, kind and dignified person, and
all you have to go on in the Internet is your reputation. Don't just
think
about the effect your posts have on bullies, consider the people lurking
here who may be ignoring you because they see you as "that guy who won't
stop arguing about top posting." It would be a shame for those people to
miss out on what you have to say about more important things. Everyone
has
the power to create the impression they make. In our non-conformist
society it is popular and clichéd to say "I don't care what other people
think" but caring about what other people think is part of what makes us
part of human society. It's up to each individual to decide WHICH
people's
opinions of them matter, for instance, I don't care what a troll on usenet
thinks of me, but I DO care if my best friend respects me.

And I say your an idiot.

Wow were making progress now.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
. ..
Chris Taylor Jr wrote:

A very nice post indeed I hope the others take it to heart.

you're an idiot, Chris. i mean that in the nicest possible way.

go back and read her post a few more times, and then take her advice.

I can outlast anyone and for handling trolls that is all that is important.

as for my website. look at the dates. most of that content is pushing 10
years old. IE when I was in high school.

I have never really gotten around to updating much of it. their is no money
in web services so I gave it up quite somet time ago and simply have not
updated my homes page in many years.

the only site I keep current is www.naramlive.com but that is a Cramfest
made reality. I update it live each day onsite at the event so making it
"neat" is not as important as just getting it done in what little time I
have each night at such an event.

In fact I do not think their is anything else on that site that I have
TOUCHED since ?? 1997 or 1998 ??

it need an overhaul and I simply do not have the time to screw with it right
now. To many other things on my plate.

You can call it what you want but bottom posting is still rude, stupid,
ineffecient and just plain the wrong way to use this forum.

I am not going to go around preaching that since its starts wars like this
but if you start with me I WILL finish it. Ad I will NOT change how I post
since THAT would be hypocritical and incorrect. I do not care how smart you
think you are.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


Seriously Chris, if you expect to keep up with people around here like
Bob or Mathilda, the latter of whom, in spite of being something of a
pain in the ass, is clearly articulate and intelligent, if not a little
obdurate, you are simply going to have to risk a bit more of that
intellectual capital you are so convinced you have.

Keep working on that web site.....it is SO close.
--
Wayne Crannell

Your right I do not care.

because the alternative is I leave and that is an unacceptable alternative.

You could say ignore them. that is an impossible alternative. it will never
happen. submitting to trolls and bullies is something I will "never" do.
Period. End of discussion.

so I have a choice. Fight give some people a bad taste about me Things
settle down people get to really know me and I actually get to use at least
some of this forum in peace.

Or I can submit and leave.

those are the only 2 options. the 2nd of which is simply not an option since
I desire to exist here peacefully.

So the choice is your. YOU dictate my actions. you are in COMPLETE control
of my actions.

Let me spell it out for you. You can keep haggling me in which case I WILL
NEVER STOP.

OR you can leave me alone and we can get on with low carb issues.

the ball is in your court. you control the game.

How will you play it.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


What you fail to realize is that anything you type in "friendly
conversation" is colored by the personality you have established in
these other threads. A history of inarticulate statements and weak logic
causes the reader to dismiss your posts as insignificant, even though
you may have good points to make.

But then again, you don't care. Makes one wonder why you fight so hard
for the right to post (which you have always had) if you care so little
about the responses you get? Could it be that intelligent discourse for
you is made up of only what YOU think?

I am not asking for respect. that is not something that can be asked for. it
can only be earned.

How do you earn respect from a bully.

You beat the living **** out of him. He will not like you but he WILL
respect you enough to stay the hell out of your way.

Now if I did NOT want to participate in this forum the solution is easy.
Leave. but I WANT to participate in this forum and I want to participate
PEACEFULLY.

that means no haggling. the only way to assure you will not be "likely" to
haggle me now or in the future is to BEAT THE LIVING **** OUT OF YOU (The
online equivalent of this being I post till your fingers bleed and you give
up ) so that you will respect me "enough" to stay out of my way.

if you will not respect me you will respect my utter stubborness and my
ability to make my self a royal pain in the ass for you. I want to make sure
you will be leary of screwing with me in the future so that I can post in
peace.

if evertime I post you trolls hammer my threads with "this ****" then people
will tend to avoid my threads. that is the SAME THING as preventing me from
posting IE the end result is effectively the same.

It will already take me weeks if not months to undue the majority of the
damage YOU trolls have caused (I started absolutely NONE of this) before
people will realize my posts are not flame fests waiting to happen and start
to read them again.

this is your doing. Not mine. what I am doing is damage control. You started
with me. I will finish it. Your choice. Your Ball. How do you want to play
it.

You can save some face by simply going away and leaving me alone. IE no more
replies. just go away. otherwise I will keep going till you get the picture.
the longest I ever had to go with a troll was some 600 posts (roughly did
not actually count them) he got the picture and left me alone and has since
NEVER bothered me again)

How many posts are you good for.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

"Wayne Crannell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

I used to get into massive arguments and threads as well. I agree it
just
HIT me one night that I have WASTED HUNDREDS of hours of my precious
life
doing what ? arguing on a newsgroup ? pretty hard to think of a larger
waste
of what little life I have.

Ah, in this case a few words are worth a thousand pictures.

No one is preventing you from posting anything, so there is really
nothing to fight for. We're just waiting for something....anything that
actually contributes to the discussion.

Respect is earned. The expectation that people will take you seriously
is earned. In this case, these things are earned with articulate, honest
posts that acknowledge the fact that there are other people on the other
end of them. On Usenet, that's all we have to judge the value of a
person's posts.

I know....you don't care.

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care an awful lot.
--
Wayne Crannell

Ok I will bite and spit it right back. See how this plays out.

Lets see TROLL

First clue

no real interest in
learning about the topic at hand

Hmm you guys flaming me about bottom posting (you started not me) flaming me
about grammar (you started not me) flaming me about spelling and punctuation
(you started not me)

I never originated a SINGLE statement. NOT A SINGLE SENTENCE on ANY of the
above topics. EVERY post has been a REPLY to an attack. this is not up for
discussion. you can not DISCUSS it or ARGUE this. it is forever retained in
news archives. google it. It is hard FACT not up for negotiation. I started
absolutely NONE of this.

Second Ingredient.

they simply want to utter flame
bait

See above. all the same remarks apply. the attacks are meant just as that.
attacks. not to further discussion not to talk about low carb. Just to
attack. Why ? Who knows that is why you are called TROLLS

their is one ingredient you forgot about. Trolls tend to not hang around.
they usually drop their load and them fly off and watch the carnage from a
distance.

you guys are like slime. you STICK and won't stop so ignoring does not work.
you hammer at it and try to beat your victum into submission.

Sorry I am not a victum and I submit to NO ONE under any conditions.

above "you" references those attacking me in general here.

Now for a more detailed definition of a troll (internet style)

You are technically "flaming" but troll has a nicer ring to it and still
applies mostly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


"Dawn Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:59:53 -0400, "Chris Taylor Jr"
announced in front of God and everybody:

Sorry. you are the ones acting like trolls.

you are the ones who started with me.

You do know what a "troll" on Usenet is, right? I mean, since you've
been doing this for soooooo long and all, you must.

One defintion apllies strongly to you:

"Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in
learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame
bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no
redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower
form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.""

"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote in message
Does not work that way. the only way this will end is if you stop replying
to me.

Call it dominance call it whatever you want. I call it making sure I win
so
you will be reluctant to screw with me in the future.

I see. You think I'm screwing with you. You've just given me control. Now
you have to respond to everything I do.

Bottom posting is rude inconsiderate and a waste of time.

Yes, bottom posting is just as rude and inconsiderate as top posting, and
for exactly the same reasons. That's why nobody suggested that bottom
posting was correct. Interleaving is correct, as I have done. I don't care
whether you post correctly or not, but notice that I didn't include and
didn't even read the rest of your post. You posted it incorrectly, so I
ignored it. You wasted whatever little time you spent on it. And now you
have to respond to whatever I do. Too bad.

martin

In article ,
"Chris Taylor Jr" wrote:

I am not asking for respect. that is not something that can be asked for. it
can only be earned.

How do you earn respect from a bully.

You beat the living **** out of him. He will not like you but he WILL
respect you enough to stay the hell out of your way.

Now if I did NOT want to participate in this forum the solution is easy.
Leave. but I WANT to participate in this forum and I want to participate
PEACEFULLY.

that means no haggling. the only way to assure you will not be "likely" to
haggle me now or in the future is to BEAT THE LIVING **** OUT OF YOU (The
online equivalent of this being I post till your fingers bleed and you give
up ) so that you will respect me "enough" to stay out of my way.

if you will not respect me you will respect my utter stubborness and my
ability to make my self a royal pain in the ass for you. I want to make sure
you will be leary of screwing with me in the future so that I can post in
peace.

if evertime I post you trolls hammer my threads with "this ****" then people
will tend to avoid my threads. that is the SAME THING as preventing me from
posting IE the end result is effectively the same.

It will already take me weeks if not months to undue the majority of the
damage YOU trolls have caused (I started absolutely NONE of this) before
people will realize my posts are not flame fests waiting to happen and start
to read them again.

this is your doing. Not mine. what I am doing is damage control. You started
with me. I will finish it. Your choice. Your Ball. How do you want to play
it.

You can save some face by simply going away and leaving me alone. IE no more
replies. just go away. otherwise I will keep going till you get the picture.
the longest I ever had to go with a troll was some 600 posts (roughly did
not actually count them) he got the picture and left me alone and has since
NEVER bothered me again)

How many posts are you good for.

Well, I would guess a fair number. And some of mine are even on-topic.
I'm curious when we'll be able to say the same of you.

I do feel bad that your life is so insignificant that you measure your
worth by whether you can outlast someone in a newsgroup thread. People
don't stop posting to you because you've outlasted them. They stop
posting because your behavior reveals an individual so sad and devoid of
purpose that it embarrasses them. At some point, decent people turn away
from the things that can't be helps and are too sad to contemplate.

Even more disturbing is the possibility that this online persona you
think makes you a man could actually be how you really are. We can only
hope you really are a talented troll, because the alternative is
pitiful, even to those of us who seem a bit more cold hearted than
average.

And I repeat....


For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care an awful lot.

I think maybe the compassionate thing to do is allow you to "win" since
it had become evident that such a victory may be all you have.

No plonk here....just a slow shake of the head and the fervent hope that
if my life ever becomes as hopeless and devoid of meaning as yours
surely seems to be, I will have the wisdom to recognize it and be honest
enough with myself to do something about it.

Regards, and I hope you find some on-topic threads here to which you are
able to contribute.
--
Wayne Crannell