Playing games

"Dawn Taylor" wrote :

Your motives for chnaging your "nym" are patently obvious. The people
you want to needle -- like me -- keep filtering you.

Really? Then why did you read this post? Where's your filter, how come I
have the same nym as last week, how come I keep nyms for weeks at a time,
and why is it that I have one nym that has been active for over 6 years?

There are other reasons for changing nyms, and you do not know my
motives.

You just can't admit when you are wrong.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:26:15 GMT, "Blah" announced
in front of God and everybody:


"Dawn Taylor" wrote :

Your motives for chnaging your "nym" are patently obvious. The people
you want to needle -- like me -- keep filtering you.

Really? Then why did you read this post? Where's your filter,

Well, you already have three or four places in my killfile. You'll
have to forgive me if I missed one or two.

It may surprise you to learn this, but I have other things to think
about besides tracking your pseudonyms.

how come I
have the same nym as last week, how come I keep nyms for weeks at a time,
and why is it that I have one nym that has been active for over 6 years?

How come you feel the need to switch so often?

Ahh, the questions.

There are other reasons for changing nyms, and you do not know my
motives.

You just can't admit when you are wrong.

Oh, I'm not wrong. If I was wrong then you'd have actually offered a
believable explanation for your alternate Usenet personas. But you
didn't even try to toss off a lame one.

Dawn

"Dawn Taylor" wrote :

How come you feel the need to switch so often?

Finally you ask. But now I wonder if I feel like answering your
question. Would it be better to just let you continue in ignorance, so that
all could see that your diagnosis is based upon ignorance and hate rather
than any information or insight.

Let me ponder.

Let's just say that if my motive was to escape KFs, I would change nyms
every time I fired up OE. Instead, as anyone with real l33t h4x0r 5ki11z
would know, there are legitimate reasons to change names every now and then
that has nothing to do with KFs.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:44:43 GMT, "Blah" announced
in front of God and everybody:


"Dawn Taylor" wrote :

How come you feel the need to switch so often?

Finally you ask. But now I wonder if I feel like answering your
question. Would it be better to just let you continue in ignorance, so that
all could see that your diagnosis is based upon ignorance and hate rather
than any information or insight.

Sweetie, I know the answer. And it bores me.

Pretending to be all mysterious and complicated doesn't make you any
more interesting than it makes Mu/Roose when he pulls the same tried
crap.

Dawn

Roger Zoul wrote:
Right. So what is your point?

My point is that the Atkins program is powerful because it
enables almost anyone to achieve rapid and major weight loss
in a short time with none of the hindrances of other weight
loss programs, except cost. eg, no hunger, no craving. This
power is deceptive in the sense that it makes losing lots of
weight so easy that it is tempting to ignore the details and
cut corners. You might not drink enough water. You might not
do any exercise. You might do too much exercise. You might
not take a vitamin/mineral supplement. You might take too
much of a vitamin or mineral supplement. You might stay in
the induction phase too long, lose too much weight too
quickly. Changing your chemistry might aggravate a
pre-existing medical condition. Changing your chemistry
might trigger a latent medical condition. You might be
tempted to ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore
them otherwise, because you are so high about losing so much
weight so easily and quickly, or you might be tempted to
ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore them
otherwise, because you believe they are inconsequential side
effects of the Atkins diet. Or you might be tempted ignore
these problems, as you yourself would, because you say
"Heck, that could happen on any diet. What, me worry?"

Thanks for the opportunity to say it again.

martin

Doug Freyburger wrote:
Right. Every so often there's a news article about someone
claiming to be on Atkins who got sick. Each and every time it
has turned out what they were doing had very little resemblence
to what the real Atkins plan actually is. They there NOT on
Atkins, but they *claimed* they were on Atkins.

That's right, and you are using the same argument as the
NRA: "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." Of course
it is true, but it is also utterly irrelevant, because my
argument includes the cases you are trying to dismiss. You
are saying simply that anybody who gets into medical strife
thinking he is doing Atkins, really isn't doing Atkins.
That's all you're saying. Atkins doesn't kill people; people
kill themselves. That's true, Doug, but it doesn't help.

On this newsgroup newbies often come through reporting they are on
Atkins. Asking them to post a menu, sometimes they are and
sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they've even read the book and in
theory knew what the plan is but didn't follow the directions.
Sometimes they've even read the book but got so confused by it they
couldn't follow the directions even with trying.

So I very much agree with Roder Zoul and I repeat his statement:

Just because someone claims they are doing Atkins doesn't make it so.

Yes, Doug. Thanks for raising that irrelevant point. It has
nothing to do with the argument.

martin

M.W.Smith wrote:

My point is that the Atkins program is powerful because it
enables almost anyone to achieve rapid and major weight loss
in a short time with none of the hindrances of other weight
loss programs, except cost. eg, no hunger, no craving. This
power is deceptive in the sense that it makes losing lots of
weight so easy that it is tempting to ignore the details and
cut corners.

In other words folks are always looking for a magic bullet no
matter that no magic bullet exists and no matter what risk
they impose upon themselves by leaving the plan and going on
a process of self abuse.

You might not drink enough water. You might not
do any exercise. You might do too much exercise. You might
not take a vitamin/mineral supplement. You might take too
much of a vitamin or mineral supplement. You might stay in
the induction phase too long, lose too much weight too
quickly.

All of which is going off the plan.

Changing your chemistry might aggravate a
pre-existing medical condition. Changing your chemistry
might trigger a latent medical condition. You might be
tempted to ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore
them otherwise, because you are so high about losing so much
weight so easily and quickly, or you might be tempted to
ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore them
otherwise, because you believe they are inconsequential side
effects of the Atkins diet. Or you might be tempted ignore
these problems, as you yourself would, because you say
"Heck, that could happen on any diet. What, me worry?"

Right. And that's why Dr A pushed the entire plan as a
lifelong decision.

This is like saying that once you have a motorcycle it is
really tempting to ride it like a lunatic and end up riding
off a cliff and dying. Okay. And that happens sometimes.
But by your approach you'd blame the motorcycle company for
producing dangerous machines.

To use your own NRA example, this is like saying when people
buy guns they run the danger of someone untrained in gun lore
pulling the trigger without checking to see that its loaded
and killing someone. So would you blame the gun industry that
someone pulled the trigger? By your example you would.

There is a point where I agree with you on this. In the 2003
edition Dr A included an entire chapter that discussed extending
Induction. A very bad thing to do. Take a bunch of people
giddy over their early success but also too early to understand
that the body can only store just so much glycogen in water and
once it's gone the water loss can never be repeated. Then tell
them that if they stay on Induction they just might have the
same sort of loss continue. Idiocy. Yet fad diet books sell a
lot better than lifestyle books and I bet he made a lot of extra
money by including that chapter. The result: Every newbie on
the planet hysterically points at that chapter and goes ballistic
when anyone points out that the core plan works better.

But the folks who get sick aren't the ones that stay on Induction,
those just stall in groves. The ones who get sick are the ones
who don't even follow the Induction plan. Like THAT is Dr A's
fault? That's the fault of folks who spread vicious lies like
Atkins doesn't allow fruit. And it's the fault of idiots looking
for a magic bullet who deliberately abuse themselves.

M.W.Smith wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Right. So what is your point?
::
:: My point is that the Atkins program is powerful because it
:: enables almost anyone to achieve rapid and major weight loss
:: in a short time with none of the hindrances of other weight
:: loss programs, except cost. eg, no hunger, no craving.

I know you read the post by Chris just today. There are plenty others who
report similar things.

This
:: power is deceptive in the sense that it makes losing lots of
:: weight so easy that it is tempting to ignore the details and
:: cut corners. You might not drink enough water. You might not
:: do any exercise. You might do too much exercise. You might
:: not take a vitamin/mineral supplement. You might take too
:: much of a vitamin or mineral supplement. You might stay in
:: the induction phase too long, lose too much weight too
:: quickly.

All of which means you're not following the program outlined by Atkins. Now
we are doing our own taylor-made version of Atkins -- which is better
referred to as low-carb, imo.

:: Changing your chemistry might aggravate a
:: pre-existing medical condition. Changing your chemistry
:: might trigger a latent medical condition.

I'd like to know more about these medical conditions you refer to.

You might be
:: tempted to ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore
:: them otherwise, because you are so high about losing so much
:: weight so easily and quickly, or you might be tempted to
:: ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore them
:: otherwise, because you believe they are inconsequential side
:: effects of the Atkins diet.

Perhaps.

:: Or you might be tempted ignore
:: these problems, as you yourself would, because you say
:: "Heck, that could happen on any diet. What, me worry?"
::

Not in the least....


:: Thanks for the opportunity to say it again.
::

Thanks for saying it again. We don't have to agree in this issue.

M.W.Smith at r nattered about ....

enables almost anyone to achieve rapid and major weight loss
in a short time with none of the hindrances of other weight
loss programs, except cost. eg, no hunger, no craving. This

You say this like this is a bad thing???

--
Kitty =^..^=
NO MORE NUTS KITTY!!!!!
168/160/130 * November Goal 155
September 17 2003

Doug Freyburger wrote:
M.W.Smith wrote:

My point is that the Atkins program is powerful because it
enables almost anyone to achieve rapid and major weight loss
in a short time with none of the hindrances of other weight
loss programs, except cost. eg, no hunger, no craving. This
power is deceptive in the sense that it makes losing lots of
weight so easy that it is tempting to ignore the details and
cut corners.


In other words folks are always looking for a magic bullet no
matter that no magic bullet exists and no matter what risk
they impose upon themselves by leaving the plan and going on
a process of self abuse.

Well, I think the ones most likely to run into trouble are
the ones looking for the magic bullet. They are more likely
to be disappointed than they are to run into trouble, but it
is the magic bullet people in any endeavor who don't really
take the time to understand whatever it is they are doing.

You might not drink enough water. You might not
do any exercise. You might do too much exercise. You might
not take a vitamin/mineral supplement. You might take too
much of a vitamin or mineral supplement. You might stay in
the induction phase too long, lose too much weight too
quickly.


All of which is going off the plan.

No, it isn't, not accoring to my "Atkins For Life" book,
written by Atkins himself.

Changing your chemistry might aggravate a
pre-existing medical condition. Changing your chemistry
might trigger a latent medical condition. You might be
tempted to ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore
them otherwise, because you are so high about losing so much
weight so easily and quickly, or you might be tempted to
ignore these problems, where you wouldn't ignore them
otherwise, because you believe they are inconsequential side
effects of the Atkins diet. Or you might be tempted ignore
these problems, as you yourself would, because you say
"Heck, that could happen on any diet. What, me worry?"


Right. And that's why Dr A pushed the entire plan as a
lifelong decision.

This is like saying that once you have a motorcycle it is
really tempting to ride it like a lunatic and end up riding
off a cliff and dying. Okay. And that happens sometimes.
But by your approach you'd blame the motorcycle company for
producing dangerous machines.

I said nothing about blame. Not a word. This has nothing to
do with blaming anybody or anything. It's a caution. A lot
of people here are doing Atkins without even having read the
book. You can liken that to riding a motorcycle like a
lunatic, but I don't think it is like that at all. Riding a
motorcycle like a lunatic is a conscious choice. I'm rather
addressing people who are getting into low-carb dieting
believing there is no danger because there isn't much you
need to know about it. That's a trap for young players
because there really isn't much you need to know to make it
work. Most people can make it work simply by not eating any
sugar, white flour, potatoes, and rice. If you eliminate
those things from your diet, you're on a low-carb diet, and
you will almost certainly lose weight if you were eating a
lot of those foods in the first place. Responding by saying
that isn't Atkins is responding by saying nothing at all. It
doesn't matter whether it is Atkins or not. A lot of people
will do just that and say they are doing Atkins.

To use your own NRA example, this is like saying when people
buy guns they run the danger of someone untrained in gun lore
pulling the trigger without checking to see that its loaded
and killing someone. So would you blame the gun industry that
someone pulled the trigger? By your example you would.

Here is where I get say: Shut up you stupid jerk. I haven't
blamed anybody for anything. You raised the blame card, not
I, so shut up about blame. Blame is irrelevant. My argument
is intended as a caution. Why do you feel this need to bring
blame into the argument?

There is a point where I agree with you on this. In the 2003
edition Dr A included an entire chapter that discussed extending
Induction. A very bad thing to do.

Sorry, but you don't get to difen Atkins. Atkins says
extending induction is legitimate, and lots of people do it
successfully. Your saying it is a bad thing to do (it isn't
necessarily) is validates my argument. It *can* be
dangerous, for some people. You do have to know what you are
doing. You do have to understand what is going on in your
body chemistry. You do have to pay attention to all the
signs that your body gives you along the way.

Take a bunch of people
giddy over their early success but also too early to understand
that the body can only store just so much glycogen in water and
once it's gone the water loss can never be repeated. Then tell
them that if they stay on Induction they just might have the
same sort of loss continue. Idiocy. Yet fad diet books sell a
lot better than lifestyle books and I bet he made a lot of extra
money by including that chapter. The result: Every newbie on
the planet hysterically points at that chapter and goes ballistic
when anyone points out that the core plan works better.

But the folks who get sick aren't the ones that stay on Induction,
those just stall in groves. The ones who get sick are the ones
who don't even follow the Induction plan. Like THAT is Dr A's
fault? That's the fault of folks who spread vicious lies like
Atkins doesn't allow fruit. And it's the fault of idiots looking
for a magic bullet who deliberately abuse themselves.

Leave out you red herrings next time. They don't apply.

martin