could really use some help

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 at 09:09:52, jmk wrote:

On 8/3/2004 9:21 PM, Ignoramus7404 wrote:

There are two issues, one is the nutrients, as you noted. Even if they
add vitamins to those bars, they are not as bioavailable as the ones
from real food. Another is that these bars are full of sugar, which
does not have much nutritional value.

Fruit is full of sugar. A ZonePerfect bar actually has less "sugar" in it
than an apple.

Surely it is a different sort of sugar? I understand that the sugar in
fruit, being unprocessed, doesn't provide merely "empty" calories the
way sucrose does.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 at 09:09:52, jmk wrote:

On 8/3/2004 9:21 PM, Ignoramus7404 wrote:

There are two issues, one is the nutrients, as you noted. Even if they
add vitamins to those bars, they are not as bioavailable as the ones
from real food. Another is that these bars are full of sugar, which
does not have much nutritional value.

Fruit is full of sugar. A ZonePerfect bar actually has less "sugar" in it
than an apple.

Surely it is a different sort of sugar? I understand that the sugar in
fruit, being unprocessed, doesn't provide merely "empty" calories the
way sucrose does.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

JMA wrote:

"Nikko" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ignoramus7404" wrote in message

Thanks for your response. A couple of follow-up questions...
How important is this? I use Zone Bars because I don't want to have to
think about what percentages/ratios my rations should be. I like knowing
exactly what I'm putting in my body. Will eating these impede my

progress?

Or do they just not have as many nutrients as real food?


I and most others view diet as a long-term change. Starting today and
ending when no longer medically possible to maintain as opposed to now
until the weight is gone. In my view, part of that long-term change is
learning to adapt to the foods common to everyone. For example,
learning to find all the nutrients and limiting the calories of those
foods to equal the zone bar from table foods. Sooner or later you’ll
end up having to eat a meal other than a zone bar. Before this happens,
you want to know enough about table foods so that it won’t cause your
diet to fail.

I strive to make my diet work while eating nearly the same meals as
others when in their presence. For me, it eliminates peer pressure and
conflict. This in mind, going to a family BBQ, I would drink beer and
eat small portions of a hamburger w/bun, potato and/or pasta salad, corn
on the cob and cookies or brownies for dessert. Again the portions of
these selections would be smaller than those around me, but it wouldn’t
be obvious that I’m eating differently. In addition the previous and
following meals would be calorie restricted to make up for this
over-indulgence. If I generalize from my own experience, the low carb
(LC) and (LF) dieters would eat mostly the dish they prepared to share.
It’s most likely a LC or LF favorite. Beside that dish the LC dieters
would eat the burger but the bun, beer, pasta salad, potato salad, corn
and desserts would perhaps be avoided. Low fat (LF) dieters might avoid
the beer, burger, pasta and potato salad (mayo) and dessert. Along the
same lines, the Zone bar on your plate would look “different”. This is
from my own observations at BBQs and doesn’t represent the eating habits
of all LC or LF dieters.

This “difference” and the conflicts it creates I feel would eventually
cause me to give up my eating habits and join the overweight population.
That’s my personal preference/weakness. Others may believe the
conflict makes them stronger and more likely to succeed or that those
questioning their food choices should look in a mirror and think about
joining instead of ridiculing. My choice is to avoid the conflict by
limiting portions at the BBQ and perhaps reducing calories at the
previous and following meals in private.

I do cardio three or four times a week. I assume you mean I should
also be lifting weight

I believe your original post said you were looking for upper body
muscle. This is rather difficult with only cardio unless you’re using
an elliptical cross-training machine and increasing the resistance.

JMA wrote:

"Nikko" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ignoramus7404" wrote in message

Thanks for your response. A couple of follow-up questions...
How important is this? I use Zone Bars because I don't want to have to
think about what percentages/ratios my rations should be. I like knowing
exactly what I'm putting in my body. Will eating these impede my

progress?

Or do they just not have as many nutrients as real food?


I and most others view diet as a long-term change. Starting today and
ending when no longer medically possible to maintain as opposed to now
until the weight is gone. In my view, part of that long-term change is
learning to adapt to the foods common to everyone. For example,
learning to find all the nutrients and limiting the calories of those
foods to equal the zone bar from table foods. Sooner or later you’ll
end up having to eat a meal other than a zone bar. Before this happens,
you want to know enough about table foods so that it won’t cause your
diet to fail.

I strive to make my diet work while eating nearly the same meals as
others when in their presence. For me, it eliminates peer pressure and
conflict. This in mind, going to a family BBQ, I would drink beer and
eat small portions of a hamburger w/bun, potato and/or pasta salad, corn
on the cob and cookies or brownies for dessert. Again the portions of
these selections would be smaller than those around me, but it wouldn’t
be obvious that I’m eating differently. In addition the previous and
following meals would be calorie restricted to make up for this
over-indulgence. If I generalize from my own experience, the low carb
(LC) and (LF) dieters would eat mostly the dish they prepared to share.
It’s most likely a LC or LF favorite. Beside that dish the LC dieters
would eat the burger but the bun, beer, pasta salad, potato salad, corn
and desserts would perhaps be avoided. Low fat (LF) dieters might avoid
the beer, burger, pasta and potato salad (mayo) and dessert. Along the
same lines, the Zone bar on your plate would look “different”. This is
from my own observations at BBQs and doesn’t represent the eating habits
of all LC or LF dieters.

This “difference” and the conflicts it creates I feel would eventually
cause me to give up my eating habits and join the overweight population.
That’s my personal preference/weakness. Others may believe the
conflict makes them stronger and more likely to succeed or that those
questioning their food choices should look in a mirror and think about
joining instead of ridiculing. My choice is to avoid the conflict by
limiting portions at the BBQ and perhaps reducing calories at the
previous and following meals in private.

I do cardio three or four times a week. I assume you mean I should
also be lifting weight

I believe your original post said you were looking for upper body
muscle. This is rather difficult with only cardio unless you’re using
an elliptical cross-training machine and increasing the resistance.

Rob wrote in message ...
JMA wrote:

I and most others view diet as a long-term change.

yeah, that's why I didn't even bother with LC/ketogenic diets. Looking
back on it, 50lbs to lose was a cakewalk really, (though it seemed to
be an impossible goal at the start for some reason).

eat less, exercise more. I think that's all most people need to lose
any amount of weight and keep it off, though of course people need to
look at their eating habits and figure out how to fit a WOE into their
lifestyles. Not easy, really, and returning to the old habits will
kill any diet success fast.

You've got to really want to be thinner more than wanting to stuff
your face. This is the core battle, everything else is a sideshow,
though one must admit different people have different struggles with
weight gain, and most guys have less physiological challenges than
women in this department.

Heywood

232/186/182

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 23:09:11 GMT, Nikko wrote:

I just figured it'd be easier to lose
fat first by restricting calories and burning as many as I can (and I'm
operating under the assumption that 50 minutes of cardio will burn more than
50 minutes of lifting), then start lifting once I've gotten down near my
goal weight. Will this work?

Yes.

Are there any supplements on which there is a
consensus that they are effective and should be part of my overall plan? I
would really like to try ephadra/ephadrine (whichever is more effective) and
I know that perhaps there is not a consensus on that one, but would
appreciate any info on the recommended frequency/amount of dosage one should
take. Also if there is a particular brand that anyone would like to
recommend, I'd appreciate having that information as well.

Forget the supplements. At this point, they will only complicate your
exercise regimen.