Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie

"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail" because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they got it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm the only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.

On Feb 6, 9:16 am, "Doug Freyburger" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail" because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they got it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm the only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.



Doug -- You said I intentionally gained weight -- at least I'm pretty
sure that's what you said. Seems to me that you may have indeed said
something that no one else said (with the possible exception of one or
two people) but that also you were saying something untrue, which you
said you did to make a point. (At least I interpret the following to
indicate that you were chosing the following to "get that through" to
me: "so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I couldn't find
anyone else had used."

Hopefully I don't say things that are untrue simply to make a point. I
don't believe I have, other than to our children at times when they
were far younger than now. strightforwardness turns out to be by far
the best policy. Saves explaining later, among other things.

As for the deadline way of doing things -- that's great that your
system works for you! Different strokes for different folks!

Have a nice day!

Yours,

Caleb

"Caleb" wrote:

Doug -- You said I intentionally gained weight -- at least I'm pretty
sure that's what you said. Seems to me that you may have indeed said
something that no one else said (with the possible exception of one or
two people)

I also wrote that actions speak louder than words. Consider that
you've planned your 100 days year after year.

but that also you were saying something untrue,

When actions disagree with words, the fact that actions speak
louder than words matters. What you think and say doesn't
matter as much as what you have done each year. What does
it mean to be "intentional"? Clearly several ASD regulars
disagree with you on your own intent, and they do so based on
your history.

which you
said you did to make a point.

I used different phrasing to say the same thing others have
said. If you see what I have written as different from what others
have written then I suggest that you didn't understand those other
people and/or didn't understand me.

(At least I interpret the following to
indicate that you were chosing the following to "get that through" to
me: "so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I couldn't find
anyone else had used."

The same meaning can be encoded in various wordings. The fact
that my words were different does not say the underlying meaning
is different. The fact that I elicited a different response means you
managed to decode my encoding better or differently, not that the
message I sent was different.

As for the deadline way of doing things -- that's great that your
system works for you! Different strokes for different folks!

Indeed. May you have a maintenance plan this time around.

Snip:
Caleb said:
As for the deadline way of doing things -- that's great that your
system works for you! Different strokes for different folks!

And you said:
Indeed. May you have a maintenance plan this time around.

Well, I had a maintenance plan last time too, but it wasn't very
effective. This time I believe it will be.

Yours,

Caleb

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
.. .
teachrmama wrote:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote:
teachrmama wrote:
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote:
teachrmama wrote:

Fine--prove to me that he deliberately regains the weight. Show me
where he has posted that he loses weight just in order to gain it
again.

You are incredibly ignorant.

In what way?

In the way that you refuse to understand what multiple people are
telling you.

What, specifically, are you telling me?

That I'm done. You are clearly content to be ignorant; in fact, you
seem to enjoy arguing for remaining ignorant. I have no desire to
engage you in that argument.

Have a nice day.

You have a nice day, too.

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
oups.com...
"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail"
because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they got
it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and
failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm the
only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.

I don't even consider the way I am choosing to eat now to be a diet. It is
a way of life. I agree with you about arbitrary end dates. It's like
saying that the train takes 12 hours to get to Chicago, aso I'm getting off
in 12 hours no matter what. But telling somebody that the fact that they
set an end date makes them an untouchable because they have don the same
thing so many times before is not going to be helpful at all. I'm glad I
was never given up on as hopeless.

On Feb 6, 8:42 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message

oups.com...



"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail"
because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they got
it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and
failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm the
only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.

I don't even consider the way I am choosing to eat now to be a diet. It is
a way of life. I agree with you about arbitrary end dates. It's like
saying that the train takes 12 hours to get to Chicago, aso I'm getting off
in 12 hours no matter what. But telling somebody that the fact that they
set an end date makes them an untouchable because they have don the same
thing so many times before is not going to be helpful at all. I'm glad I
was never given up on as hopeless.

About the arbitrary deadline -- Well, we end school classes at a
certain time (perhaps 50 minutes), pay taxes at a certain time, go in
for yearly check-ups at a certain time, do Spring cleaning at a
certain time.

When I used to run long distances, I would set for myself a goal of
getting to a distant point, and then once I made that point, I would
set another goal.

Seems to me that a lot of people do similar things, perhaps clean
their houses while a certain record is playing, etc. Whatever it takes
to help them focus on the task at hand and maintain their behavior
over time. Perfection is certainly an ideal to be striven for, but if
we tell people that perfection is required, as is the total commitment
to a given way of behavior for the rest of their lives, I think a lot
of people would be scared away, and a lot would see any faltering as
clear proof that the goals are beyond them. Also it is unrealistic to
demand that people comply with such a regimen, I think.

Just my two cents about different methods of maintaining motivation
over some difficult portions of time.

Yours,

Caleb

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:08:12 -0800, determined wrote:

Oh ****. Here is a "clinical psychologist" encouraging a person with an
eating disorder to starve herself.

Oh ****. Here is a 20 something divorcee twit lecturing about who cares
while she plays all day on Usenet while her child is.........?

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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"Caleb" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 6, 8:42 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message

oups.com...



"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think
he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail"
because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they
got
it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so
it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and
failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm
the
only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got
it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.

I don't even consider the way I am choosing to eat now to be a diet. It
is
a way of life. I agree with you about arbitrary end dates. It's like
saying that the train takes 12 hours to get to Chicago, aso I'm getting
off
in 12 hours no matter what. But telling somebody that the fact that they
set an end date makes them an untouchable because they have don the same
thing so many times before is not going to be helpful at all. I'm glad I
was never given up on as hopeless.

About the arbitrary deadline -- Well, we end school classes at a
certain time (perhaps 50 minutes), pay taxes at a certain time, go in
for yearly check-ups at a certain time, do Spring cleaning at a
certain time.

When I used to run long distances, I would set for myself a goal of
getting to a distant point, and then once I made that point, I would
set another goal.

Seems to me that a lot of people do similar things, perhaps clean
their houses while a certain record is playing, etc. Whatever it takes
to help them focus on the task at hand and maintain their behavior
over time. Perfection is certainly an ideal to be striven for, but if
we tell people that perfection is required, as is the total commitment
to a given way of behavior for the rest of their lives, I think a lot
of people would be scared away, and a lot would see any faltering as
clear proof that the goals are beyond them. Also it is unrealistic to
demand that people comply with such a regimen, I think.

Just my two cents about different methods of maintaining motivation
over some difficult portions of time.

Rather that a time goal, I do have a certain weight loss goal. That is when
I will begin the Maintenance portion of my new way of life. I would
certainly like to ahve reached my goal one year from when I started--but I
will not change back to how I ate before when I getto ether the one year
mark or the weight goal. And the way of eating I follow now is not a
stringent "thou shalt not" sort of plan. It is liveable--which is why it is
working for me. I agree with you about the perfection thing--even the
smallest thing can spoil perfection, which makes it unworkable for the vast
majority of the human race. So--just because I am insatiebly curious--how
exactly are you setting up your eating program when you get to maintenance?
You've mentioned the scale, but do you have any sort of a food plan in mind?
=c)

On Feb 6, 11:29 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Caleb" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Feb 6, 8:42 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message

groups.com...

"teachrmama" wrote:

So do you think he deliberately plans to regain it? Or do you think
he
fails to plan (a maintenance program) therefore he "plans to fail"
because
of the lack of a maintenance program?

That's it. The first year it was fails to plan. The second year it
was fails
to plan. By the fourth year it was plans to fail. Each year there
has to
be some expectation of learning. At some point it evolves from fails
to
plan to plans to fail to intends to regain.

And nobody else here has ever done
something similar (gaining and losing a number of times before they
got
it
right)? Caleb is very up front with his successes and failures, so
it's
easy to criticize him. How many of us would like our successes and
failures
paraded out in similar fashion? I know I wouldn't!! (Or maybe I'm
the
only
one here who ever lost, regained, lost, regained, before I finally got
it
right)

I lose and regain as well. What I finally learned is that if I
declare an
end date that means I have declared a day when I plan on starting to
regain. Lots of people on ASD have tried various ways to get that
through to Caleb so I picked a way of saying that same thing that I
couldn't find anyone else had used.

Having phases last some number of days is fine. Having the diet
last some number of days isn't. Though I lose and regain, I stay on
some phase of my plan. It is a mental difference - Staying on plan
is the right thing to do so when I am regaining I'm doing the wrong
thing not returning to normal.

I don't even consider the way I am choosing to eat now to be a diet. It
is
a way of life. I agree with you about arbitrary end dates. It's like
saying that the train takes 12 hours to get to Chicago, aso I'm getting
off
in 12 hours no matter what. But telling somebody that the fact that they
set an end date makes them an untouchable because they have don the same
thing so many times before is not going to be helpful at all. I'm glad I
was never given up on as hopeless.

About the arbitrary deadline -- Well, we end school classes at a
certain time (perhaps 50 minutes), pay taxes at a certain time, go in
for yearly check-ups at a certain time, do Spring cleaning at a
certain time.

When I used to run long distances, I would set for myself a goal of
getting to a distant point, and then once I made that point, I would
set another goal.

Seems to me that a lot of people do similar things, perhaps clean
their houses while a certain record is playing, etc. Whatever it takes
to help them focus on the task at hand and maintain their behavior
over time. Perfection is certainly an ideal to be striven for, but if
we tell people that perfection is required, as is the total commitment
to a given way of behavior for the rest of their lives, I think a lot
of people would be scared away, and a lot would see any faltering as
clear proof that the goals are beyond them. Also it is unrealistic to
demand that people comply with such a regimen, I think.

Just my two cents about different methods of maintaining motivation
over some difficult portions of time.

Rather that a time goal, I do have a certain weight loss goal. That is when
I will begin the Maintenance portion of my new way of life. I would
certainly like to ahve reached my goal one year from when I started--but I
will not change back to how I ate before when I getto ether the one year
mark or the weight goal. And the way of eating I follow now is not a
stringent "thou shalt not" sort of plan. It is liveable--which is why it is
working for me. I agree with you about the perfection thing--even the
smallest thing can spoil perfection, which makes it unworkable for the vast
majority of the human race. So--just because I am insatiebly curious--how
exactly are you setting up your eating program when you get to maintenance?
You've mentioned the scale, but do you have any sort of a food plan in mind?
=c)

Teachrmama -- I don't know exactly exactly. My daughter is vegetarian
and I certainly will emphasize the green and growing things. Limited
meals, reasonable amounts of exercise, less or no beer -- those
things all make sense to me. Like most people, i have difficulty
tracking calories regularly but I sure am willing to do this if the
scales show a reason to.

And as I said, I'm taking pictures of myself each Monday evening and I
will keep a series of those in my kitchen. It's too easy to forget
where one has been as time goes on. Reminds me of the quote by the
psychologist Zimbardo who said that the elderly think of themselves as
young, only in older skin. I agree with that also with a lot of
overweight people -- that is, they still think of themselves as less
overweight. So I think pictorial evidence of previous overweight vs
current standard weight is likely to be very useful. Indeed, perhaps a
weekly picture from here on out will be useful.

I think the scale is the most important thing, however, because it is
the canary in the coal mine well before other important and negative
consequences of overweight arise.

The scale and I will continue to be great friends! (I'm thinking of
hanging my car keys on it, and so whenever I drive somewhere, I will
weigh myself. Might even help with global warming!)

And of course other behavioral methods are good -- leave the kitchen
at 7 PM and eat nothing more after that -- that by itself will save a
lot of evening calories.

Yours truly,

caleb