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#11
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"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
... GaryG wrote: :: "Ignoramus7068" wrote in message :: ... ::: I can relate my experience with "portion controlled dieting" vs. ::: "low carb dieting". ::: ::: Contrary to what that expert says, volume of food, quantity of water ::: etc, does not have a big effect on my satiety. (except for the first ::: few days, probably the same for others that show in short term ::: experiments) I could have my stomach completely full of water and ::: vegetables and still be hungry, meaning thinking about food and ::: wanting more. ::: ::: Second, saying that low carb diets are really low calorie diets ::: because, even though the dieter eats all he wants, he eats low cal, ::: completely misses the point. ::: ::: The point is that a person who would not regulate his calorie intake ::: on a high carb diet, can now regulate it on a high fat diet. The ::: calorie regulation system that was thought to be broken, can work by ::: itself, once I changed what I eat. If I overeat fat, I skip the next ::: meal or eat a lot less afterwards, because I am not hungry. ::: ::: For me, low carb is not a "metabolic loophole", using Dr Atkins ::: words. It is not "cheating the system". It is a way to eat to ::: function normally, in the sense that such that normal appetite can ::: control weight. ::: ::: My hope is that this low carbing is not harmful to my health and ::: that my body won't adapt to it, after a while, in ways that would ::: make me gain weight on LC. ::: ::: i ::: 223/173/180 :: :: I'm mostly agnostic with regards to the claims of LC diets. I :: suspect they can be useful for some folks, especially those who :: don't exercise very much (as an avid cyclist, I doubt Atkins would :: keep me fueled). And I also know that when I've tried restricting :: fats, I found myself with more cravings, and afternoon sleepiness. :: So, clearly there's a "grain of truth" (pun intended) in the LC :: approach. Currently, I try for a somewhat "higher-protein and good :: fats, with lots of fruit and veggies" diet, and find self-regulation :: to be pretty easy (most days...). :: :: My only concern with the Atkins style approach is (as I understand :: it), the de-emphasis on fruits and vegetables. Many recent studies :: have consistently shown that folks who eat more fruits and :: vegetables have less health problems (cancers, in particular). See :: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fruits.html for instance. :: :: So, are the Atkins folks getting enough fruits and veggies in their :: diets? FWIW, some experts recommend 9 servings of fruit and :: vegetables per day, while others recommend 5 or more. Are Atkins :: folks getting near these recommended levels? Gary - exactly who are "Aktins folks"? Perhaps you should read up on Atkins and other LC plans, because you don't really know much about them. I don't claim to know much about it...that's why I was asking the question in this ng! I was just trying to get a sense of how many servings of fruit and vegetables a typical Atkins/LC dieter eats per day. FWIW, I know quite a few folks who've tried Atkins. Some have been hugely successful...others moderately successful, and others not at all (par for the course with most diets, I guess). I suspect that individual differences in "satiety" explain some of the reasons why this is so (in my own case, I find it easier to self-regulate when I include a bit more protein and healthy fats than the low-fat approach). GG |
#13
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Newsflash: low-carb dieters like low-carb diets. You can drop
alt.support.diet from this thread any time now. Dally |
#14
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GaryG wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" wrote in message || ... ||| GaryG wrote: ||||| "Ignoramus7068" wrote in ||||| message ... |||||| I can relate my experience with "portion controlled dieting" vs. |||||| "low carb dieting". |||||| |||||| Contrary to what that expert says, volume of food, quantity of |||||| water etc, does not have a big effect on my satiety. (except for |||||| the first few days, probably the same for others that show in |||||| short term experiments) I could have my stomach completely full |||||| of water and vegetables and still be hungry, meaning thinking |||||| about food and wanting more. |||||| |||||| Second, saying that low carb diets are really low calorie diets |||||| because, even though the dieter eats all he wants, he eats low |||||| cal, completely misses the point. |||||| |||||| The point is that a person who would not regulate his calorie |||||| intake on a high carb diet, can now regulate it on a high fat |||||| diet. The calorie regulation system that was thought to be |||||| broken, can work by itself, once I changed what I eat. If I |||||| overeat fat, I skip the next meal or eat a lot less afterwards, |||||| because I am not hungry. |||||| |||||| For me, low carb is not a "metabolic loophole", using Dr Atkins |||||| words. It is not "cheating the system". It is a way to eat to |||||| function normally, in the sense that such that normal appetite |||||| can control weight. |||||| |||||| My hope is that this low carbing is not harmful to my health and |||||| that my body won't adapt to it, after a while, in ways that would |||||| make me gain weight on LC. |||||| |||||| i |||||| 223/173/180 ||||| ||||| I'm mostly agnostic with regards to the claims of LC diets. I ||||| suspect they can be useful for some folks, especially those who ||||| don't exercise very much (as an avid cyclist, I doubt Atkins would ||||| keep me fueled). And I also know that when I've tried restricting ||||| fats, I found myself with more cravings, and afternoon sleepiness. ||||| So, clearly there's a "grain of truth" (pun intended) in the LC ||||| approach. Currently, I try for a somewhat "higher-protein and ||||| good fats, with lots of fruit and veggies" diet, and find ||||| self-regulation to be pretty easy (most days...). ||||| ||||| My only concern with the Atkins style approach is (as I understand ||||| it), the de-emphasis on fruits and vegetables. Many recent ||||| studies have consistently shown that folks who eat more fruits and ||||| vegetables have less health problems (cancers, in particular). ||||| See http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fruits.html for ||||| instance. ||||| ||||| So, are the Atkins folks getting enough fruits and veggies in ||||| their diets? FWIW, some experts recommend 9 servings of fruit and ||||| vegetables per day, while others recommend 5 or more. Are Atkins ||||| folks getting near these recommended levels? ||| ||| Gary - exactly who are "Aktins folks"? Perhaps you should read up ||| on Atkins and other LC plans, because you don't really know much ||| about them. ||| || || I don't claim to know much about it...that's why I was asking the || question in this ng! There is not single answer to that question since many people "claim" to be doing Aktins and haven't read the book or the website. Also, there are those who don't even like veggies. Finally, those here are likely a small percentage of those who are doing Atkins. || || I was just trying to get a sense of how many servings of fruit and || vegetables a typical Atkins/LC dieter eats per day. Well, there are many here who will tell you that they eat more veggies now than ever before. Atkins done properly is about eating a LOT of veggies as well as the lower carb fruits (some fruits just aren't suitable for weight loss because the sugar content will cause BG swings that then trigger appetitie). I personally eat a lot of veggies. My diet is far from simply meat, eggs, cheese, etc. I also eat a good amount of fish. I really should eat less nuts, though, since I have a problem with them. || || FWIW, I know quite a few folks who've tried Atkins. Some have been || hugely successful...others moderately successful, and others not at || all (par for the course with most diets, I guess). Exactly. I suspect that || individual differences in "satiety" explain some of the reasons why || this is so (in my own case, I find it easier to self-regulate when I || include a bit more protein and healthy fats than the low-fat || approach). Among people who have BG issues and don't know it, Atkins or any LC plan will work well. They just have to keep at it long enough to learn to stick to it. |
#15
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(John WIlliams) wrote in message . com...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/health/05brod.html She found that the amount of calories in a given volume of food makes a big difference in how many calories people consume at a given meal, and throughout the day. The author of this report is a quack. The appetite suppression caused by puffed up low calorie density food is nothing like the effectiveness of the appetite suppression of a low-carb diet. Give me a few huge bowls of dry popocorn and a few minutes later I will be just as hungry. Give the same calories in eggs and bacon and if I avoid the carbs I'll be satisfied. Any why does it seem that every second-rate pseudo-scientist that the popular media can come up with say that equal calories result in equal weight gain or loss according to thermodynamics. The process is much more complicated than that. Calories are not absorbed with perfect efficiency and there are places that energy goes other than body fat. One experiment showed that low-carb dieters lost fat (not total weight) faster than fasters. |
#16
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"GaryG" wrote in message ...
So, are the Atkins folks getting enough fruits and veggies in their diets? FWIW, some experts recommend 9 servings of fruit and vegetables per day, while others recommend 5 or more. Are Atkins folks getting near these recommended levels? GG Speaking for myself...I started on Atkins initially and slowly redifined my diet to one which I'm most happy with and my family can live with. While on Atkins..(not counting the two week induction period)...pretty much replaced all grain meals with a veggie..I did NOT replace them with more meat. So I ate much much more veggies than I did before. Instead of a salad-potato-meat type dinner. It became a very large salad-brocolli and then smaller meat dish as a side...yes smaller meat type dish. I've actually turned to eating less meat since going low carb. I find I have the most energy and function best on lots of veggies. I'm still relatively lower carb than most folks. I eat limited portions of whole grain foods. I eat lots of fruit, mostly berries. Kristine |
#17
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Ignoramus7068 wrote:
Second, saying that low carb diets are really low calorie diets because, even though the dieter eats all he wants, he eats low cal, completely misses the point. The point is that a person who would not regulate his calorie intake on a high carb diet, can now regulate it on a high fat diet. The calorie regulation system that was thought to be broken, can work by itself, once I changed what I eat. If I overeat fat, I skip the next meal or eat a lot less afterwards, because I am not hungry. For me, low carb is not a "metabolic loophole", using Dr Atkins words. It is not "cheating the system". It is a way to eat to function normally, in the sense that such that normal appetite can control weight. Jane Brody recently spoke in my neck of the woods. When the local rag interviewed her, she totally ripped into Atkins. Her comment was something along the lines of "Atkins is ridiculous. How can you say you're never going to eat another potato as long as you live." Marsha/Ohio |
#18
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On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:44:59 -0400, Dally wrote:
Newsflash: low-carb dieters like low-carb diets. You can drop alt.support.diet from this thread any time now. Update: low-carb dieters are, nonetheless, dieters. Xpost reinstated. |
#19
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Her comment was something along the lines of "Atkins is
ridiculous. How can you say you're never going to eat another potato as long as you live." LOL! "I'm never going to eat a potato again as long as I live". How was that? I also don't plan on doing heroin, or having sex with women. All things that are pretty easy to swear off for me. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/162/140 & hubby- 6' 310/188/180 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos |
#20
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"John WIlliams" wrote in message om... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/health/05brod.html With Fruits and Vegetables, More Can Be Less By JANE E. BRODY effect on weight loss, Dr. Rolls reported. People who claim that they can eat as much as they want (of protein and fat, for example) and lose weight as long as they avoid certain kinds of foods (carbohydrates, for example) are really eating less (that is, fewer calories) than they did before. This woman is just plain stupid. She has no concept of what a low-carb diet is, obvously, or how it is done. z(Which plan states that you can eat "as much as they want of protein and fat and lose weight at slong as they avoid carbohydrates?) I'm embarrassed for her that she made such ignorant statements publicly. How sad for her. Peter |
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