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physics of atkins: Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005
OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some
hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' Note that "Feinman emphasizes that his arguement is solely rooted in physics." and does not consider any other health effects. let the yelling begin..... Bob |
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My usual reaction to this is that the laws of thermodynamics are inappropriate laws to use to try to model human biology. Yes, they hold - at the molecular interaction level. So what? They hold for computers as well, but thermo won't make you understand a computer program. The reality is, human metabolism is a complex thing, and there's a lot we can do to influence it in various ways, and yet still not understand it fully. What works for one doesn't always work for others, which wouldn't be the case if thermo was all that mattered. I did see one simplification that made sense, though. Organic food has carbon atoms in it. When you eat, you add carbon atoms to your body. To lose weight, you have to get rid of those carbon atoms. The body only has a few ways of doing this, but only exhaling carbon dioxide deals with nontrivial amounts, so it's up to metabolism to reduce body mass. Yeah, oxygen and hydrogen too, but those become water and other things and make the example much more complex. |
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:25:25 GMT, bob wrote:
OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' Note that "Feinman emphasizes that his arguement is solely rooted in physics." and does not consider any other health effects. let the yelling begin..... Bob No need to yell. Only the most shortsighted and blinded by loyalty folks know Atkins sux when it comes to his (lack) of science. |
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I don't think you read the quote carefully, it is in scientific (albeit
narrowly focused) support of atkins..... "MU" wrote in message No need to yell. Only the most shortsighted and blinded by loyalty folks know Atkins sux when it comes to his (lack) of science. ... On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:25:25 GMT, bob wrote: OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' Note that "Feinman emphasizes that his arguement is solely rooted in physics." and does not consider any other health effects. let the yelling begin..... Bob |
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bob wrote:
OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' I fully accept this but I don't see how it makes any real difference. It isn't as though the energy consumed when processing protein is hugely different to that consumed when processing simple carbohydrates. It might make a difference of a few calories, not of a few hundred. The reason that I accept this is that I have often noticed a rise in body temperature after eating less easily digestible foods, also that a feeling of fullness lasts longer. It has never made a difference to my weight, or energy levels overall, although after eating unprocessed protein, it takes longer before I feel "re-energised". This is why, prior to exercise, I eat carbs, not protein. I eat protein afterward to allow muscle to rebuild. By the same token, although probably not following the same logic, the times when you feel a "real" rise in body temperature after eating is after eating curries and chillies. I have found that if I eat hot foods as a lifestyle thing, i.e., when living in parts of Asia, my weight does drop even when I am eating, as normal, to satisfy an unchanged appetite. I don't believe that it is the difference in protein/carb balance in these cases, but the fact that for some reason hot foods seem to both boost metabolism, and reduce appetite; to sate more easily. As far back as the early Adelle Davis books, ('60s) she notes that adding hot spices to food increases BMR. Before the onset of my diabetes my weight was very stable, the only time it ever changed was when eating nothing but Asian foods; it always dropped. This included Japanese (very high carb) as well as the more spicy Asian styles. It did not include Vietnamese foods, they were too French (sauce) oriented to make much difference. In the end it still all comes back to total calorie intake, the difference in metabolic processing, while measurable, isn't sufficient to make a difference long term, just an interesting bit of metabolic trivia. Regards David -- To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted. |
#6
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Hi Bob,
I suspect that nobody understands. Nobody needs to understand. This is DIET stuff, and that is remarkably like religion. FAITH. I look forward to reading the whole article. Did you fully understand it, or did you pass along what you felt you gathered? In other words, have you ever taken several classes in thermodynamics? Jim bob wrote: OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' Note that "Feinman emphasizes that his arguement is solely rooted in physics." and does not consider any other health effects. let the yelling begin..... Bob -- ................................ Keepsake gift for young girls. Unique and personal one-of-a-kind. Builds strong minds 12 ways. Guaranteed satisfaction - courteous money back - keep bonus gifts http://www.alicebook.com |
#7
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Thanks for the post. It sounds like a good enough summary that I don't need
to buy the magazine. "Discover" is my favorite magazine. This sounds like logical support for Atkins' claim of a metabolic advantage. IMHO: The body has what I call a "calorie thermostat" that regulates calorie consumption. I believe that a low carb high fat diet alters this calorie thermostat to a lower level. Thus, sustained weightloss becomes possible. I have not tried high protein. "bob" wrote in message . com... OK, if I remember this group correctly, this is going to generate some hostile reaction, so let me say from the outset that I make no comment, only pass along the article. On page 14 of Discover Magazine, Jan. 2005, delivered to my home today is a blurb in the R&D section entitled "The Physics of Atkins" "A calorie is a calorie, no matter the source-right? Wrong, " They site biochemist Richard Feinman and Eugene Fin of SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York. "critics of low carb diets always invoke the laws of thermodynamics, but they are not understanding them properly" Feinman "argues that two laws not one are involved. Detractors of the Atkins Diet often emphasize the first law of thermodynamics, that the total energy in a system is always conserved. Deinman considers the secon law-that energy tends to dissipateat over time-just as important. It determines what happens to the energy in food when it is broken down in the body. 'We know ton a molecular level that the body's pathways are less efficient at turning protiein caleries into glucose,' he says 'That means that more energy is lost as heat.' Note that "Feinman emphasizes that his arguement is solely rooted in physics." and does not consider any other health effects. let the yelling begin..... Bob |
#8
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:33:51 GMT, Cubit wrote:
IMHO: The body has what I call a "calorie thermostat" that regulates calorie consumption. I believe that a low carb high fat diet alters this calorie thermostat to a lower level. Where did you come up with this? |
#9
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Ignoramus20242 wrote:
|| On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:33:51 GMT, Cubit wrote: ||| Thanks for the post. It sounds like a good enough summary that I ||| don't need to buy the magazine. "Discover" is my favorite magazine. ||| ||| This sounds like logical support for Atkins' claim of a metabolic ||| advantage. ||| ||| IMHO: The body has what I call a "calorie thermostat" that ||| regulates calorie consumption. I believe that a low carb high fat ||| diet alters this calorie thermostat to a lower level. Thus, ||| sustained weightloss becomes possible. ||| ||| I have not tried high protein. || || Low carb enables my hunger thermostat to work. I eat all I want, || literally, and do not gain. Life is now nice and free of hunger. I || can || now apply my "willpower" elsewhere. || || I thought that LC enabled me to eat more calories. To my great || surprise, when I entered my day's food into fitday, the total count || of calories turned out to be pretty similar to what I ate pre-LC. You mean pre-LC, post weight loss, right? |
#10
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I combined info from a study where subjects ate only a shake from a spout,
claims in Dr. Herman Taller's 1961 diet book, "Calories Don't Count," and my personal experience. In the study, they found that it took about two weeks for subjects to unconsciously adjust their volume of shake consumption after the scientists covertly changed the caloric density of the shake. I read about it years ago, and I do not have the citation. The study also led me to suspect that there might be an advantage to eating only caloricly dense foods, if one does it for the several weeks needed for the body to adjust. I suspect that alternating between caloricly dense and caloricly sparse foods may screw things up and exacerbate weight gain, but I have no evidence yet. "MU" wrote in message ... On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:33:51 GMT, Cubit wrote: IMHO: The body has what I call a "calorie thermostat" that regulates calorie consumption. I believe that a low carb high fat diet alters this calorie thermostat to a lower level. Where did you come up with this? |
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