If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
I posted a few weeks ago about having had a very cruddy
week. One of the reasons for this was that at work we had been trying to close on a new major contract and the closing was delayed for a number of reasons. The contract was finally completed and signed yesterday. In the overall scheme of things this isn't necessarily a big deal, but the livelihoods of a lot of very good and talented people were coupled to this. (JJ sighs with relief, momentarily, then steels himself to delivering on the contract.) After a week of being home from vacation I have managed to drop back to the weight I was before I left to go on vacation....185 pounds. I expressed in an earlier post that while I was on vacation I did not eat any food types other than that which I normally eat (I ate low-carb is what I specifically said) but I did eat more that I would normally, probably half to double my normal consumption...but that is a guess by eye-balling quantities. I normally eat about 1400 cals/day, my guess is I was eating between 2000 and 2800 cals/day while on vacation. Certainly nothing that I would consider a carb-up by any means but also more carbs that I have been eating to lose. My CCLL is between 45-50g/day of carbs so, if the carb ratio followed the calorie ratio, I was eating between 75-100g/day of carbs. Still low-carb but above normal for me. By the end of the day this past Sunday I was back up about 6 pounds to 191...some of which was certainly just my Easter dinner meal, I don't normally weigh myself at the end of the day. On Monday I went back to induction level carbs then ate my normal carb level for the rest of the week. This morning I am back to my previous low of 185. Basically 6 pounds up in a week, 6 pounds down in 5 days. So far as I can tell the only way for this to be physically possible is for it to have been water weight gain, presumably through glycogen storage (glycogenesis), then glycogen depletion...much like the first two weeks of induction. I've intentionally gone through this cycle three times now but this is the first time I have eaten above my CCLL for an entire week. On one hand I suppose that I am just playing around with what my CCLM is going to be. But, on the other hand, several have suggested, JC in particular, that I might want to set my goal weight to something lower than my desired maintenance weight and then work my way back up. So, in this regard, I am really trying to figure out what my final goal weight needs to be so that I can end up on my desired maintenance weight. The three mini-experiments I've done so far seem to support that the suggestion to shoot low is sound. Let's assume that much of the weight gain back up will be through glycogenesis (though I intend for some of it to be muscle mass.) I've not found a good source yet to help answer the following question: When I allow my body to replenish its glycogen, and assuming my activity level remains the same, can I predict what that total weight in pounds will be? Yes, I realize there are many variables to consider in answering this question. In the past three weeks I have managed to get myself back in the gym and have managed to get a reasonable workout (weights and/or cardio) 4 days/week. (On a side note I am dumbfounded by the progress I already see in stamina and strength in even this short a period.) This activity certainly has, or will have, an impact on how my body manages its glycogen stores. As such I don't believe that there is a crisp deterministic answer to this question but empirical data would be useful. If anybody has a resource(s) for such specific information I will happily do my own research, but I haven't yet found specifically what I am looking for. Happy thoughts and a different topic. I have always enjoyed dancing. I'm not good at it but I enjoy it. As you might guess when I was at my heaviest weight, and I was there for a very long time, I would forego dancing because I just wasn't happy with my appearance and even the shortest dance would leave me winded and sweating profusely. My wife and I managed to have a date night last night just by ourselves, the first in a very long time, and we went dancing. We spent about 4 hours on the dance floor...I didn't get winded once and sweated not at all. I continue to be amazed by how good it feels to be rid of all that excess weight. Have a great weekend all. -- JJ. 275/185/183, BMI 26.5 - as of Apr 2, 2004, and again on April 17th Atkins since Sep 1, 2003 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos 67.3% of the man I used to be. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
"JJ" wrote in message news:I5cgc.12756$ru4.15606@attbi_s52...
The three mini-experiments I've done so far seem to support that the suggestion to shoot low is sound. Let's assume that much of the weight gain back up will be through glycogenesis (though I intend for some of it to be muscle mass.) I've not found a good source yet to help answer the following question: When I allow my body to replenish its glycogen, and assuming my activity level remains the same, can I predict what that total weight in pounds will be? It depends on just how depleted and dehydrated you are, but in my experience it will be less than ten pounds. Yes, I realize there are many variables to consider in answering this question. In the past three weeks I have managed to get myself back in the gym and have managed to get a reasonable workout (weights and/or cardio) 4 days/week. (On a side note I am dumbfounded by the progress I already see in stamina and strength in even this short a period.) This activity certainly has, or will have, an impact on how my body manages its glycogen stores. As such I don't believe that there is a crisp deterministic answer to this question but empirical data would be useful. If anybody has a resource(s) for such specific information I will happily do my own research, but I haven't yet found specifically what I am looking for. I've never seen that exact information, but you might try asking Lyle McDonald over at MFW. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
"JJ" wrote:
I posted a few weeks ago about having had a very cruddy week. One of the reasons for this was that at work we had been trying to close on a new major contract and the closing was delayed for a number of reasons. The contract was finally completed and signed yesterday. In the overall scheme of things this isn't necessarily a big deal, but the livelihoods of a lot of very good and talented people were coupled to this. (JJ sighs with relief, momentarily, then steels himself to delivering on the contract.) After a week of being home from vacation I have managed to drop back to the weight I was before I left to go on vacation....185 pounds. I expressed in an earlier post that while I was on vacation I did not eat any food types other than that which I normally eat (I ate low-carb is what I specifically said) but I did eat more that I would normally, probably half to double my normal consumption...but that is a guess by eye-balling quantities. I normally eat about 1400 cals/day, my guess is I was eating between 2000 and 2800 cals/day while on vacation. Certainly nothing that I would consider a carb-up by any means but also more carbs that I have been eating to lose. My CCLL is between 45-50g/day of carbs so, if the carb ratio followed the calorie ratio, I was eating between 75-100g/day of carbs. Still low-carb but above normal for me. By the end of the day this past Sunday I was back up about 6 pounds to 191...some of which was certainly just my Easter dinner meal, I don't normally weigh myself at the end of the day. On Monday I went back to induction level carbs then ate my normal carb level for the rest of the week. This morning I am back to my previous low of 185. Basically 6 pounds up in a week, 6 pounds down in 5 days. So far as I can tell the only way for this to be physically possible is for it to have been water weight gain, presumably through glycogen storage (glycogenesis), then glycogen depletion...much like the first two weeks of induction. I've intentionally gone through this cycle three times now but this is the first time I have eaten above my CCLL for an entire week. On one hand I suppose that I am just playing around with what my CCLM is going to be. But, on the other hand, several have suggested, JC in particular, that I might want to set my goal weight to something lower than my desired maintenance weight and then work my way back up. So, in this regard, I am really trying to figure out what my final goal weight needs to be so that I can end up on my desired maintenance weight. The three mini-experiments I've done so far seem to support that the suggestion to shoot low is sound. If 185 is the number you want with glycogen stoers then I guess you would have to undershoot. DId you feel different/bad/bloated at 191?? I just wonder if you will feel any different having a 179-185 weight range rather than a 185-191 range. I would think it wouldn't make a difference and is really more of a number-goal thing after so much success. I do weigh myself daily and I learned that I can put on 4 lbs just during the day from eating and drinking, so a 6 pound variance really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Honestly I wondered if Atkins Phase 2 would have taken care of the water weight difference. WHen I upped carbs for OWL I felt better and had more stamina. Mentally I wondered if the extra carbs were building up a higher level of glycogen stores--probably not, but it was my first guess for feeling better. Let's assume that much of the weight gain back up will be through glycogenesis (though I intend for some of it to be muscle mass.) I've not found a good source yet to help answer the following question: When I allow my body to replenish its glycogen, and assuming my activity level remains the same, can I predict what that total weight in pounds will be? Maybe if you at at a maintenance level for two weeks straight you would see it even out at a higher weight. Daily weighing might show the increase and then a new steady high--enough that you could reasonably assume that the difference between the 185 you're maintaining and the new level represents your glycogen stores. I can't think of any other way for a layman to figure it out for themselves. As long as your carbs are higher but your calories remain steady you should feel reasonably comfortable that glycogen stores are going to be rebuilt but there won't be enough calories to start putting on substantial fat. Yes, I realize there are many variables to consider in answering this question. In the past three weeks I have managed to get myself back in the gym and have managed to get a reasonable workout (weights and/or cardio) 4 days/week. (On a side note I am dumbfounded by the progress I already see in stamina and strength in even this short a period.) This activity certainly has, or will have, an impact on how my body manages its glycogen stores. As such I don't believe that there is a crisp deterministic answer to this question but empirical data would be useful. If anybody has a resource(s) for such specific information I will happily do my own research, but I haven't yet found specifically what I am looking for. Happy thoughts and a different topic. I have always enjoyed dancing. I'm not good at it but I enjoy it. As you might guess when I was at my heaviest weight, and I was there for a very long time, I would forego dancing because I just wasn't happy with my appearance and even the shortest dance would leave me winded and sweating profusely. I know what that feels like! My wife and I managed to have a date night last night just by ourselves, the first in a very long time, and we went dancing. We spent about 4 hours on the dance floor...I didn't get winded once and sweated not at all. Very cool! I continue to be amazed by how good it feels to be rid of all that excess weight. Have a great weekend all. DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email) 350/302/Apr-299/200 Atkins since Jan 12, 2004 OWL-50 carbs/day (CCLL=?) |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
JJ --
This is silly....look in the mirror when you have no clothes on...If you like what you see, and you're honest with yourself, you're done (or not). You'll know if you see too much fat or not. The fat will be there no matter your state of glycogen level. As for this water weight thing -- again, carb up for a few days and look in the mirror -- same deal. You should concern yourself with fat levels, not how much water is trapped in your muscles/liver while carbed up. Don't focus on what the scale says, focus on what you see, and moybe even more importantly (depending on your goals), how you perform. If you knew the exact amount of muscle on your body and how much glycogen your liver can hold, then you might be able to figure this -- but honestly, why bother? You'll never truly know how depleted your are anyway. If you plan to enter maintenance, then you should find your CCLM and keep carbs around that level for life. JJ wrote: :: I posted a few weeks ago about having had a very cruddy :: week. One of the reasons for this was that at work we had :: been trying to close on a new major contract and the closing :: was delayed for a number of reasons. The contract was :: finally completed and signed yesterday. In the overall :: scheme of things this isn't necessarily a big deal, but the :: livelihoods of a lot of very good and talented people were :: coupled to this. (JJ sighs with relief, momentarily, then :: steels himself to delivering on the contract.) :: :: After a week of being home from vacation I have managed to :: drop back to the weight I was before I left to go on :: vacation....185 pounds. I expressed in an earlier post that :: while I :: was on vacation I did not eat any food types other than that :: which I normally eat (I ate low-carb is what I specifically :: said) but I did eat more that I would normally, probably :: half to double my normal consumption...but that is a guess :: by eye-balling quantities. I normally eat about 1400 :: cals/day, my guess is I was eating between 2000 and 2800 :: cals/day while on vacation. Certainly nothing that I would :: consider a carb-up by any means but also more carbs that I :: have been eating to lose. My CCLL is between 45-50g/day of :: carbs so, if the carb ratio followed the calorie ratio, I :: was eating between 75-100g/day of carbs. Still low-carb but :: above normal for me. :: :: By the end of the day this past Sunday I was back up about 6 :: pounds to 191...some of which was certainly just my Easter :: dinner meal, I don't normally weigh myself at the end of the :: day. On Monday I went back to induction level carbs then :: ate my normal carb level for the rest of the week. This :: morning I am back to my previous low of 185. Basically 6 :: pounds up in a week, 6 pounds down in 5 days. So far as I :: can tell the only way for this to be physically possible is :: for it to have been water weight gain, presumably through :: glycogen storage (glycogenesis), then glycogen :: depletion...much like the first two weeks of induction. :: :: I've intentionally gone through this cycle three times now :: but this is the first time I have eaten above my CCLL for an :: entire week. :: :: On one hand I suppose that I am just playing around with :: what my CCLM is going to be. But, on the other hand, :: several have suggested, JC in particular, that I might want :: to set my goal weight to something lower than my desired :: maintenance weight and then work my way back up. So, in :: this regard, I am really trying to figure out what my final :: goal weight needs to be so that I can end up on my desired :: maintenance weight. :: :: The three mini-experiments I've done so far seem to support :: that the suggestion to shoot low is sound. Let's assume :: that much of the weight gain back up will be through :: glycogenesis (though I intend for some of it to be muscle :: mass.) I've not found a good source yet to help answer the :: following question: When I allow my body to replenish its :: glycogen, and assuming my activity level remains the same, :: can I predict what that total weight in pounds will be? :: :: Yes, I realize there are many variables to consider in :: answering this question. In the past three weeks I have :: managed to get myself back in the gym and have managed to :: get a reasonable workout (weights and/or cardio) 4 :: days/week. (On a side note I am dumbfounded by the progress :: I already see in stamina and strength in even this short a :: period.) This activity certainly has, or will have, an :: impact on how my body manages its glycogen stores. As such :: I don't believe that there is a crisp deterministic answer :: to this question but empirical data would be useful. If :: anybody has a resource(s) for such specific information I :: will happily do my own research, but I haven't yet found :: specifically what I am looking for. :: :: Happy thoughts and a different topic. I have always enjoyed :: dancing. I'm not good at it but I enjoy it. As you might :: guess when I was at my heaviest weight, and I was there for :: a very long time, I would forego dancing because I just :: wasn't happy with my appearance and even the shortest dance :: would leave me winded and sweating profusely. My wife and I :: managed to have a date night last night just by ourselves, :: the first in a very long time, and we went dancing. We :: spent about 4 hours on the dance floor...I didn't get winded :: once and sweated not at all. I continue to be amazed by how :: good it feels to be rid of all that excess weight. :: :: Have a great weekend all. :: :: -- :: JJ. :: 275/185/183, BMI 26.5 - as of Apr 2, 2004, and again on :: April 17th :: Atkins since Sep 1, 2003 :: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos :: 67.3% of the man I used to be. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
... Honestly I wondered if Atkins Phase 2 would have taken care of the water weight difference. WHen I upped carbs for OWL I felt better and had more stamina. Mentally I wondered if the extra carbs were building up a higher level of glycogen stores--probably not, but it was my first guess for feeling better. But basically you have no idea what you are rambling on about, because you've never experienced anything like it. -- There's a difference between an opinion and an informed point of view. For some reason people always get them confused and think that whatever pops into their head is worth sharing as part of a debate. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
JJ,
As I get closer to my goal weight (within 7 lbs now), I have the EXACT same question. I put on and took off 10 lbs in 1 week. That had to be water stored as I know that while I ate sugar, I didn't eat an extra 35,0000 calories to put on that weight. Neither did I undereat this week 35,000 calories to take off the 10 lbs. In fact, I just went back to eating the way I ate 2 weeks ago. Since I don't know what I'm doing either, I've wondered if going on maintenance enables a person's glycogen stores to build up slowly so you don't notice it, because in spite of the fact that you are building up glycogen stores, you may continue to lose weight...just at a slower rate, stay .5 lb week instead of 1 or whatever...When I "hit it" with a sudden influx of carbs, I build them up suddenly and add back quickly, not giving the body time to adjust while continuing to lose. When I put on that 10 lbs, noone else seemed to notice. I was still getting those compliments, people wondering how I did it...only I could tell, apparently, as my family didn't seem to notice, either, in fact, they snickered at me when I told them I could feel the difference. So, my response to Roger's question, my goal is a certain number, and not "how I look" because we can all talk ourselves into "I'm not that bad", but numbers don't lie...and it is more of a reality check...at least that is my take on it. I am going to get to goal first, and then work on going up to maintenance more diligently, and try to go at least a little below goal...I can see that I'm going to have to in order to stay down there...but I'd be curious to know how people have done it without gaining weight back. I'm especially interested in hearing from people who have used low carb as a strategy for losing weight and not necessarily who plan to use it as a way of life for the rest of your life. Some of you may have changed over to a simple calorie counting or more balanced approach (meaning not necessarily LC) to eating...what strategy did you use to "go off" the diet... Becky P. www.family.solidrockpl.org 199/142/135 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
"curious" curious@noemailshown wrote in message lkaboutsupport.com... I'm especially interested in hearing from people who have used low carb as a strategy for losing weight and not necessarily who plan to use it as a way of life for the rest of your life. That's me. Some of you may have changed over to a simple calorie counting or more balanced approach (meaning not necessarily LC) to eating...what strategy did you use to "go off" the diet... I get down to 7 or 8 pounds below my goal and then slowly introduce carbs into my diet, allowing my weight to creep up to goal. At that point I can maintain my weight faily easily. There's a couple of pound variance in either direction, but if you keep track it's not that difficult to take corrective action. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
curious wrote:
:: JJ, :: :: As I get closer to my goal weight (within 7 lbs now), I have the :: EXACT same question. I put on and took off 10 lbs in 1 week. That :: had to be water stored as I know that while I ate sugar, I didn't :: eat an extra 35,0000 calories to put on that weight. Neither did I :: undereat this week 35,000 calories to take off the 10 lbs. In fact, :: I just went back to eating the way I ate 2 weeks ago. :: :: Since I don't know what I'm doing either, I've wondered if going on :: maintenance enables a person's glycogen stores to build up slowly so :: you don't notice it, It very well may if you do it as Atkins suggests, slowly increasing carb intake as you creep to goal... :: because in spite of the fact that you are :: building up glycogen stores, you may continue to lose weight ....just :: at a slower rate, stay .5 lb week instead of 1 or whatever...When I :: "hit it" with a sudden influx of carbs, I build them up suddenly and :: add back quickly, not giving the body time to adjust while :: continuing to lose. :: :: When I put on that 10 lbs, noone else seemed to notice. I was still :: getting those compliments, people wondering how I did it...only I :: could tell, apparently, as my family didn't seem to notice, either, :: in fact, they snickered at me when I told them I could feel the :: difference. So, my response to Roger's question, my goal is a :: certain number, and not "how I look" because we can all talk :: ourselves into "I'm not that bad", but numbers don't lie...and it is :: more of a reality check...at least that is my take on it. Numbers do lie! I've seen plenty of normal weight people who have much too much bodyfat, and little muscle. It is not hard for an objective person to look at one's body and decide if there's too much fat or not. Do you think a 290 lb contest-ready bodybuilder is too fat? And I'd bet you money if one of those guys/gals showed up to stage with a spare tire around the waist there would be some serious laughing going on. If your goal is simply to weigh a certain number, you haven't thought about this enough. Bodyweight number goals are nice to have on any weight loss program, but for those with a lot to use, number goals really aren't that useful. A bodyfat test would be much more useful and could be used to make a number goal have some kind of meaning. But an honest & objective person who is keenly interested in being lean can make a good determination by simply looking in the mirror, and pinching fat. :: :: I am going to get to goal first, and then work on going up to :: maintenance more diligently, and try to go at least a little below :: goal...I can see that I'm going to have to in order to stay down :: there...but I'd be curious to know how people have done it without :: gaining weight back. :: :: I'm especially interested in hearing from people who have used low :: carb as a strategy for losing weight and not necessarily who plan to :: use it as a way of life for the rest of your life. Some of you may :: have changed over to a simple calorie counting or more balanced :: approach (meaning not necessarily LC) to eating...what strategy did :: you use to "go off" the diet... Oh....I see....you're the one who never really belived in LC in the first place....it was always to be a temporary thing for you. Okay. Carry on. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
Roger said:
Numbers do lie! I've seen plenty of normal weight people who have much too much bodyfat, and little muscle. It is not hard for an objective person to look at one's body and decide if there's too much fat or not. Do you think a 290 lb contest-ready bodybuilder is too fat? And I'd Becky replies: I'm not really into looking at bodybuilders...and I'm not planning on starting into it myself. I meant, for me...sorry about that, but I've seen so many "overweight people" say, "Well, I'm not that bad..." even as the weight piles on and as they say to themselves..."well I can still wear my size...so I must be okay, even if the scales say I'm too heavy," as they barely squeeze into their pants... Roger said: If your goal is simply to weigh a certain number, you haven't thought about this enough. Bodyweight number goals are nice to have on Becky replies: Actually I've never been this way before, but I can see I will need to be this way from henceforth...because I can't go by "size" of clothes...it is way too big of a variable.. and clothes sizes lie, as we've discussed in here before.. It is a better check for me than "sizes" of clothes and as I mentioned, a body fat test isn't a practical option for me. Roger said: A bodyfat test would be much more useful and could be used to make a number goal have some kind of meaning. But an honest & objective person Becky replies: I haven't the foggiest idea where to get a body fat test done here in Poland, so that is "pie in the sky" to me...a far fetched idea. I can do a "pinch an inch" test, but that's about it. I've heard that women have more fat than men because that is the way God made them...with an extra layer to help protect esp. as related to child bearing. As far as low carb for life. Unfortunately for some of you that might care, while I can see that it does work for weight loss, I remain unconvinced that bread is bad for people who don't have a health problem. On the other hand, I am becoming convinced that sugar is the really bad culprit. I've also come to the place where if I need to, I think I could continue in a lower carb, but I am unwilling to give up corn, and other high carb veggies like peas and carrots--not unless my health depended on it--like my parents who now have diverticulitis. Roger...it seems from your past posts that you believe this is the "only" way to go, but I know it isn't. My dad lost 30-40 lbs on a low fat diet and has kept it off for years...that strategy worked for him. It was too difficult for me to be hungry all the time while feeding 5 kids and a husband. LC has been wonderful for me. Becky P. - curious www.family.solidrockpl.org 199/142/135 5'5.5" |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Glycogen weight question and a status update
Roger...
You're right... Body builders must fall into a different category. I've seen people who lift weights and they don't look overweight, but they are by the charts, overweight. But, most people "out there" or even "in here" aren't body builders, from what I've seen. Becky P. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Article: Dairy Foods Help Burn Fat, Speed Weight Loss | Rogue | General Discussion | 5 | May 13th, 2004 01:22 PM |
Effort Pays Off When Diabetics Try to Lose Weight | Kate Dicey | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 28 | April 15th, 2004 05:55 AM |
Why not losing weight? I'll pay you if you answer this question. | sausalater | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 1 | January 22nd, 2004 01:06 AM |
Question for the weight trainers | Mekrath | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 9 | November 21st, 2003 03:17 AM |
maintenance overview question | bob | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 7 | September 29th, 2003 10:53 PM |