ASD Book Club - Thin for Life (Key #1)

"Dally" wrote in message
...
JMA wrote:

Myth #3: If you do succeed at losing weight and keeping ti off, you'll
have to eat like a bird for the rest of your life.

I think it's doing a disservice to pretend that you can go back to eating
monster mega-meals at Applebees once you've lost the weight. Part of what
"dieting" means is learning how to eat for the rest of your life. I
certainly know obese people who'd be horrified at how little I eat these
days. A 1500 calorie budget is soon blown if you aren't careful. My
guess is that one super-obese woman I know would view my "eating for fuel
rather than entertainment" as a deal-killer and pretty much figure I eat
like a bird. That's not because I eat too little, it's because she
chooses to keep eating too much.

So in essence, I think that succeeding at weight loss really DOES mean
eating less for the rest of my life. If you want to characterize that
non-gluttony as "eating like a bird" then that's fair enough.

Thanks for doing this, Jenn!

Dally

I agree. I love good food and one of the things I've learned this time
round is just how little I will be able to eat when I get to goal
(especially without exercise). I've already learned to stop eating
something I don't like. Used to do it to stop offending waiters/other
people I was with but I'm not wasting my cals on stuff I don't want. Hope,
this time, to make sure I focus on eating something I really want and like
and not just going back to starter/main course/dessert for the sake of it.

Rachael
(176/155/124)

Dally wrote:

I think it's doing a disservice to pretend that you can go back to
eating monster mega-meals at Applebees once you've lost the weight.
Part of what "dieting" means is learning how to eat for the rest of
your life. I certainly know obese people who'd be horrified at how
little I eat these days. A 1500 calorie budget is soon blown if you
aren't careful. My guess is that one super-obese woman I know would
view my "eating for fuel rather than entertainment" as a deal-killer
and pretty much figure I eat like a bird. That's not because I eat
too little, it's because she chooses to keep eating too much.

So in essence, I think that succeeding at weight loss really DOES mean
eating less for the rest of my life. If you want to characterize that
non-gluttony as "eating like a bird" then that's fair enough.


I visit my best friend for about a week every year. I was there before,
during and after my weight loss, so she's seen my evolving eating
habits. Just this past May, as I'm happily into my second year of
maintenence, I serve myself from a meal that I cooked and she moans:
"You eat so little!!" I looked at my plate and it seemed like plenty. I
had a nice big salad. I asked her how much food did she think it should
take to sustain a 5 foot tall, 110 pound, 48 year old woman?

It's a concept people really don't ever really consider.

--
Still on the bike . . .
Laurie in Maine
207/110 60 inches of attitude!
Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03

I like Beverly's approach of commenting on the myths, so here's my
take:

Myth #1: If you've been overweight since childhood, it's next to imporssible
to lose weight and keep it off.

I became overweight after grad school, when I started working and
became less active. Obviously it wasn't impossible for me to lose
weight, and I'm counting on it not being impossible to keep it off
:-).

Myth #2: If you've dieted and failed may times before, there's little hope
of ever licking your weight problem.

I'd dieted before over the years. One time, at around age 30, I got
down to close to what I weigh now, but that was taking diet pills.
When I stopped I put it all back on. A couple of other times I
started, lost weight for a while -- never going below maybe 180 -- and
then sort of ran out of steam. This time was different, and I hope it
will continue to be. I did it slowly and sensibly, with a plan I
believe I can stick to for life. It's also the first time I ever
incorporated exercise in my lifestyle.

Myth #3: If you do succeed at losing weight and keeping ti off, you'll
have to eat like a bird for the rest of your life.

I know I eat less than a lot of the guys and young people on the list,
but I don't feel I eat like a bird. I don't go hungry. I do watch
what I eat -- don't indulge freely in desserts and junk food -- but I
splurge often enough. This week I've been eating a piece of
trick-or-treat candy each day -- didn't see any reason not to allow
myself to do that rather than giving it away -- and I feel okay with
that. I'm not eating the muffins and cookies in our audit room at
work, though.

Myth #4: In order to lose weight and keep it off, you hav eto become an
exercise fanatic.

I exercise more than the average person, but that's more because I
love it than because I feel I need to do it to maintain my weight. I
expect if I had to cut back on the exercise I'd have to cut back some
on calories too. (I expect some of my friends -- most of whom are
virtually completely sedentary -- would consider me an exercise
fanatic :-) .)

Myth #5: It's really hard to lose weight once you pass the age of 40.

Well, obviously it wasn't impossible for me (I'm 56). I don't recall
that it was any easier when I was younger.

Myth #6: You can't lose weight on your own, let alone maintain weight loss.

Well, I had the support of asd -- found you guys after my first 6
months or so. But I never joined any sort of club or anything. And I
didn't have a nutritionist or anything like that (though I know and
like the one at the gym and chat with her on occasion). I do have my
trainers, but they're not really about weight loss, and I had them
before I began dieting as well.

Myth #7: Diets don't work - if you lose weight be going on a diet, you're
bound to gain it back.

Well, a lot of semantics gets wrapped around the word "diet". I
agree, of course, with those who point out that ones has to make a
permanent change in one's way of eating -- and indeed in one's
lifestyle. But I don't have a problem calling what I did a "diet" --
really just a synonym for "WOE", as far as I'm concerned.

Myth #8: If you hit a plateau while losing weight, there's little hope of
moving on.

I had several 3-4 week plateaus during the almost-two-years I was
losing. I didn't let this worry me at all, but I do know that it's
tough for people who stall for months. I think that physiologically
of course there's hope, but psychologically this can be a
deal-breaker.

Myth #9: If you start regaining weight, you're bound to gain it all back.
You should stay away from the scale.

Gosh, it seems to me it's best to catch it early. It's more likely to
be demoralizing if you find you have to lose a substantial amount
rather than tackling when it's more manageable. I know that in the
past when I regained weight I knew perfectly well I was doing it and
never weighed myself because I didn't want to know how much I'd
gained.

Opinions differ on frequent weighing, but it hasn't been a problem for
me. I weigh every day or two, and did throughout my weightloss. It
seems preferable to me to get over having hangups about it, but I know
that can be tough. I can get hung up on numbers, just like most
people, but I work on being objective and dispassionate about it :-).

Myth #10: If you don't stay at your original weight goal, then you're a
failure.

Says who? Does this mean you're a failure in the world's eyes?
Surely not, but who cares anyway? I suspect the problem is you might
feel like a failure yourself, and hence give up. That's the kind of
thinking we all need to learn to avoid.

I read this book last year and found it very encouraging. I just
re-read the first chapter the other night in preparation for our
discussion. Now that I'm in maintenance, I will be viewing it from a
different perspective :-).

Chris
262/135/ (135-145)

"Rachael Reynolds" wrote in message
...

"Dally" wrote in message
...
JMA wrote:

Myth #3: If you do succeed at losing weight and keeping ti off, you'll
have to eat like a bird for the rest of your life.

I think it's doing a disservice to pretend that you can go back to
eating
monster mega-meals at Applebees once you've lost the weight. Part of
what
"dieting" means is learning how to eat for the rest of your life. I
certainly know obese people who'd be horrified at how little I eat these
days. A 1500 calorie budget is soon blown if you aren't careful. My
guess is that one super-obese woman I know would view my "eating for
fuel
rather than entertainment" as a deal-killer and pretty much figure I eat
like a bird. That's not because I eat too little, it's because she
chooses to keep eating too much.

So in essence, I think that succeeding at weight loss really DOES mean
eating less for the rest of my life. If you want to characterize that
non-gluttony as "eating like a bird" then that's fair enough.

Thanks for doing this, Jenn!

Dally

I agree. I love good food and one of the things I've learned this time
round is just how little I will be able to eat when I get to goal
(especially without exercise). I've already learned to stop eating
something I don't like. Used to do it to stop offending waiters/other
people I was with but I'm not wasting my cals on stuff I don't want.
Hope,
this time, to make sure I focus on eating something I really want and like
and not just going back to starter/main course/dessert for the sake of it.

Rachael
(176/155/124)

There's this one restaurant in town that has the best bread pudding. I know
when we go there I'm not going to pass it up so I always have a salad, skip
the main course and go straight to dessertg It comes out to about the
same calorie wise and I've satisfied my urge for the bread pudding until the
next time we visit this place.

Beverly

I also liked Beverly's approach, and when I saw it I wished I hadn't
jumped in so quickly with my first response. So, at the risk of
boring everyone, I'm going to have a second go and do it Beverly and
Chris's way:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:00:32 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:

I like Beverly's approach of commenting on the myths, so here's my
take:

Myth #1: If you've been overweight since childhood, it's next to imporssible
to lose weight and keep it off.

I wasn't an overweight child, so can't really comment, but I don't see
why this should make it especially more difficult for people.

Myth #2: If you've dieted and failed may times before, there's little hope
of ever licking your weight problem.

I don't see why. I've dieted with great success many times before,
but haven't managed to keep it off. I have the physics of it sorted,
but need to "fix my head" and I know that (thanks, Dally, I'm trying
to quote you here).

Myth #3: If you do succeed at losing weight and keeping it off, you'll
have to eat like a bird for the rest of your life.

I don't believe this. I lose weight so well on 1500 calories and am
constantly pleasantly surprised what a lot of food that is, so I don't
think (subject to fixing my head) I would find even having to maintain
at a little under this to be "eating like a bird". For example, it's
extremely rare for me to gain when I go away on holiday, so I don't
have a fear of having to eat ridiculously little for ever after.

Myth #4: In order to lose weight and keep it off, you have to become an
exercise fanatic.

Well, I'm not one now and I lose weight very well when I stick to my
WOE. I love walking and want to keep that up for as long as I can,
but I don't see I need to become obsessive, which is what the word
fanatic implies for me, so no fears here, either.

Myth #5: It's really hard to lose weight once you pass the age of 40.

Well, all I can say is my rate of loss is scarcely very different from
what it was when I was younger so I don't see this as a barrier at
all. Some of the case histories cited in the book seem to bear this
out, too.

Myth #6: You can't lose weight on your own, let alone maintain weight loss.

Well, again, I don't believe this. Most of my more successful weight
loss periods have been when I've followed my own WOE - the support
here is important, yes, but I don't depend on it for success or
failure, and I haven't found the many slimming clubs I went to in
earlier years were any more powerful a help than my own internal
motivation to succeed, with or without support. I can't comment about
maintenance as I don't know enough about it! It is pointed out
somewhere (can't remember if it's this book or Fattitudes or both)
that people tend to do better when they take charge of their own WOE
and don't have it handed down to them. I agree with this, ownership
of my own WOE and progress is extremely important to me.

Myth #7: Diets don't work - if you lose weight by going on a diet, you're
bound to gain it back.

Well, I don't know how else to lose weight, so for me I think this is
covered by the other points.

Myth #8: If you hit a plateau while losing weight, there's little hope of
moving on.

I don't do plateaus. I've never had one while losing weight and I'll
worry about that when it happens.

Myth #9: If you start regaining weight, you're bound to gain it all back.
You should stay away from the scale.

Despite my experience of gaining it all back and more, several times
over, I don't believe at all that this is inevitable. This time
around, I've managed to stay well under 200 for over 2 years and have
no intention of gaining it all back. Let me say, despite my well
known views about staying away from the scale while losing (which I've
been glad to see put forward as a good idea in at least one book I've
read recently) I weigh myself much more frequently when things aren't
going well. I'm not one to bury my head in the sand, despite having
been accused of it here in the past. If I'm gaining, I want to know
what the damage is, not just let it creep up on me. If I'm sticking
to my WOE I know for certain I'll be losing, and I don't need to
constantly be asking the scale to reaffirm that for me. It is two
very different things for me.

Myth #10: If you don't stay at your original weight goal, then you're a
failure.

As I said in my earlier post, one of the things I liked about this
book was its realism and optimism (yes, I think the two can exist side
by side) and the idea put forward that it may be OK to settle for a
maintenance level that is a bit above your long-desired goal. This is
a good example about common sense overriding the "all or nothing"
approach, which unfortunately I am very prone to.

janice

"janice" wrote in message
...
I also liked Beverly's approach, and when I saw it I wished I hadn't
jumped in so quickly with my first response. So, at the risk of
boring everyone, I'm going to have a second go and do it Beverly and
Chris's way:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:00:32 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:

I like Beverly's approach of commenting on the myths, so here's my
take:

Myth #1: If you've been overweight since childhood, it's next to
imporssible
to lose weight and keep it off.

I wasn't an overweight child, so can't really comment, but I don't see
why this should make it especially more difficult for people.

I wasn't an overweight child either but I do know two women from high school
who were overweight during this time. They both lost weight after high
school and have managed to keep their weight under control for years.

Beverly

"Beverly" wrote in message
...

A positve attitude goes a long, long way in attaining success in life. It
not only applies to weight loss but to other aspects of our everyday life.
I'd much rather be around someone with a positive attitude. Anyone who
adopts the attitude that they can't win in the weight loss game has doomed
themselves to failure.

Beverly

It's not just weight loss. We bring in a lot of motivational speakers to
address our students and that's the most common thread among all of them.
It boils down to a belief in yourself. Whether it's a professional athlete
or the author who came from the most horribly abusive background (Dave
Pelzer), their message is that you need to believe that you can succeed in
order to do it.

Having an attitude such as "I know that if I had to lose half of my weight,
I would probably fail" is a guarantee for failure as opposed to one where
someone *knows* it is going to be hard work but is definitely doable.

Jenn

"Beverly" wrote in message
...

A positve attitude goes a long, long way in attaining success in life. It
not only applies to weight loss but to other aspects of our everyday life.
I'd much rather be around someone with a positive attitude. Anyone who
adopts the attitude that they can't win in the weight loss game has doomed
themselves to failure.

Beverly

It's not just weight loss. We bring in a lot of motivational speakers to
address our students and that's the most common thread among all of them.
It boils down to a belief in yourself. Whether it's a professional athlete
or the author who came from the most horribly abusive background (Dave
Pelzer), their message is that you need to believe that you can succeed in
order to do it.

Having an attitude such as "I know that if I had to lose half of my weight,
I would probably fail" is a guarantee for failure as opposed to one where
someone *knows* it is going to be hard work but is definitely doable.

Jenn

"Dally" wrote in message
...

It's not just positive talk, it's visualization of success and how / why
wer're going to be successful. Thinking/talking through the steps to how
to succeed has known, studied, measurable impact on people's success
rates.

So Igor's premise is wrong that optimism doesn't lead to measureable
success, in that the sort of optimism we're talking about is creating a
blueprint for a positive outcome. We're not just saying "la la la, I'm
*sure* we'll succeed" we're saying, "I'm sure I'm going to succeed because
I'm going to do this and that and that and that and when things go a bit
wrong I'm going to go back to my bag of tricks to pull out another one and
do that, too."

Dally
244/171/165

Well said.

Jenn

"Ignoramus14916" wrote in message
...

I am advocating realism, "adherence to the actual fact".

Would that be "facts" like pullups/pushups being "something along the same
lines" as a one hour Olympic lifting workout?

My contention is that realism is the most productive approach.
Optimism may help someone to feel happy, but is it superior to realism
in making good decisions when it comes to measurable outcomes?

At the risk of being redundant, pessimism is not the only, and
definitely not best, alternative to optimism. Realism is, in my
opinion, a better alternative.


If you were capable of realism, it would be. However, your grasp of reality
at many times is tenuous at best. (see above)

Jenn