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Claim, weight loss "cures" diabetes
Concerning Mr. Chung's assertion that weight loss "cures" diabetes, weight
loss from bypass surgery offered as evidence: "Actually, there are many examples." me: Happy to entertain any of them you think possible. "There has been no scientific evidence that contradicts the assertion." Always happy to discuss science, so let us review, you claimed the weight loss by bypass surgery resulted in a "cure" for diabetes" in support of your assertion. No support at all, the reassertion of glucose control started right after the surgery and before substantial weight loss and before internal belly fat loss. You asserted the "cure" resulted from loss of the belly fat, refuted. Not all weight loss surgeries result in reassertion of glucose control, only those which introduce nutrition by bypass into the distal gut. At the same time in the latter incretin hormone levels are greatly elevated as a result and these are critical in the observed glucose control, refuted a second time. Your superficial grasp of that literature didn't allow you to know your example contains the seeds for the refutation of your ill founded assertion. Even in the case of greater glucose control, the diabetes is not "cured" but the disorder compensated for by the greatly elevated incretin levels, stop that and the glucose control would disappear without weight gain. I know of one other proceedure that also results in reassertion of glucose control, perhaps you can find it. |
#3
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Claim, weight loss "cures" diabetes
Mr. Chung offers:
"Anything that brings about loss of visceral adiposity will work to cure non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes in folks with significant visceral adiposity: "With moderate weight loss following LAGB (Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding), co-morbidities (including type 2 diabetes) were cured in 50-80% or improved in 10-40% of all patients." Source: http://tinyurl.com/nvxgo" Good, nice to see you come down from the mountan, to a search engine and into the literature. Using medline and "banding diabetes cure" as terms as a speculation of how the search enjine was used, found as first among two hits the abstract above and this one: "Although all of the surgical procedures for obesity offer improved weight loss and diabetes control compared with conservative methods, the Roux-en-Y gastric bypass and biliary-pancreatic diversion offer superior weight loss and resolution of diabetes. The more dramatic effect seen in the surgical procedures to cause malabsorption is likely secondary to the bypass of the foregut resulting in increased weight loss and elevation of the enteroglucagon level." Elsewhere related to the last sentence: "We have previously proposed that the rapid improvement in insulin resistance observed following bariatric surgery is mediated by changes in incretin levels of the entero-insular axis and that long-term improvement is modulated by fat mass loss and changes in adipocytokine levels of the adipoinsular axis." http://tinyurl.com/pphk7 And from the full article of the above: "Incretin levels undergo remarkable changes following bariatric surgery.15 This has led to speculation that the rapid drop in insulin resistance and improvement in T2DM following gastric bypass is mediated by incretins and the entero-insular axis." It goes on to discuss the role of internal belly fat in long term control. As I have maintained all along in these now two threads, it is a complex interrelated set of factors which leads to diabetes in some people. Science is a matter of degree and nuances ruled by the bell curve and absolute statements don't serve. Internal belly fat is among those factors but doesn't start the cascade per sey and reduction by weight loss is not the final word on the question. "Cure" is a matter of nuances as well and we can explore how use of the term is misleading as applied to diabetes, even as used in the first abstract. So as not to overburden one post with a full discussion here, we can start with the implications of what the two abstracts above show and proceed to tease out the broader reality as found in the literature. Good to be finally doing science and not posturing. |
#4
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Weight Loss Cures Type-2 Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes (NIDDM)
wrote:
Andrew wrote truthfully: Anything that brings about loss of visceral adiposity will work to cure non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes in folks with significant visceral adiposity: "With moderate weight loss following LAGB (Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding), co-morbidities (including type 2 diabetes) were cured in 50-80% or improved in 10-40% of all patients." Source: http://tinyurl.com/nvxgo Good, nice to see you come down from the mountan, to a search engine and into the literature. Bottomline: You are without the truth. -- End Discussion -- Still praying for your poor enslaved soul, dear neighbor. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://tinyurl.com/m3gnu |
#5
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Weight Loss Cures Type-2 Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes (NIDDM)
"Bottomline: You are without the truth.
-- End Discussion --" me: Ah, back to absolute statements and grandstanding and an inability to engage in normal discussion we see, again.But the truth of the assertion is not supportable based on the research, again. Now you have retreated again from a discussion of the science involved and into irrelevant matters again, all who care to read can now form their own judgement, again, as to the source's reliability in both science and those irrelevant matters and what they reveal, again. A one shot abstract from a quick search of the literature doesn't convincing science make, unless it is a public face one wants to maintain, again. Goal achieved, again. |
#6
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Chung Bull ****
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Bottomline: You are without the truth. -- End Discussion -- More Chung Bull ****. He LIES: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Did not attempt exorcism. Wanna bet, Chung? Here's EXACTLY what you said: "In the infinitely powerful and holy name of LORD Jesus Christ, I command you, demon, to come out and leave Philip before our LORD personally destroys you. " |
#7
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Weight Loss Cures Type-2 Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes (NIDDM)
No, may God bless and protect and provide you peace at last.
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#8
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Weight Loss Cures Type-2 Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes (NIDDM)
Al wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Bottomline: You are without the truth. -- End Discussion -- More Chung Bull ****. He LIES: It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully. Sorry my choice bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my iniquities. To understand this, simply surf the link below my sig. Still praying for your poor enslaved soul, dear Al. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew http://tinyurl.com/m3gnu |
#9
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Claim, weight loss "cures" diabetes
Cured in 50-80% and improved in 10-40%...
That's some wide margins right there... long shot from calling it a "cure"... rather a possibility of a cure.. wonder what the margin of error is over it.. Will~ "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: Concerning Mr. Chung's assertion that weight loss "cures" diabetes, weight loss from bypass surgery offered as evidence: "Actually, there are many examples." me: Happy to entertain any of them you think possible. "There has been no scientific evidence that contradicts the assertion." Always happy to discuss science, so let us review, you claimed the weight loss by bypass surgery resulted in a "cure" for diabetes" in support of your assertion. No support at all, the reassertion of glucose control started right after the surgery and before substantial weight loss and before internal belly fat loss. You asserted the "cure" resulted from loss of the belly fat, refuted. Not all weight loss surgeries result in reassertion of glucose control, only those which introduce nutrition by bypass into the distal gut. At the same time in the latter incretin hormone levels are greatly elevated as a result and these are critical in the observed glucose control, refuted a second time. Your superficial grasp of that literature didn't allow you to know your example contains the seeds for the refutation of your ill founded assertion. Even in the case of greater glucose control, the diabetes is not "cured" but the disorder compensated for by the greatly elevated incretin levels, stop that and the glucose control would disappear without weight gain. I know of one other proceedure that also results in reassertion of glucose control, perhaps you can find it. Anything that brings about loss of visceral adiposity will work to cure non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes in folks with significant visceral adiposity: "With moderate weight loss following LAGB (Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding), co-morbidities (including type 2 diabetes) were cured in 50-80% or improved in 10-40% of all patients." Source: http://tinyurl.com/nvxgo Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://tinyurl.com/m3gnu |
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