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Benefits of ketogenic diets



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:16 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

James Warren wrote:

ScienceDaily (Dec. 6, 2012) — Scientists at the Gladstone Institutes have identified a novel mechanism by which a type
of low-carb, low-calorie diet -- called a "ketogenic diet" -- could delay the effects of aging. This fundamental
discovery reveals how such a diet could slow the aging process and may one day allow scientists to better treat or
prevent age-related diseases, including heart disease, Alzheimer's disease and many forms of cancer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206142025.htm


Drop low carb enough long enough and thyroid reduces T3 output. That
reduces basal metabolism. Lower metabolism is associated with better
lonevity. In rats and mice anyways it looks like super low carb is the
macro-nutrient most responsible for the long life of underfed test
subjects. Might work in humans.
  #2  
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:59 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Susan wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Drop low carb enough long enough and thyroid reduces T3 output.


Actually, "long enough" is the first 24 or 27 hours. And you don't have
to drop carbs, it happens with very low calorie consumption, too.


If the goal is basal metabolism reduction, then the goal is deliberately
triggering starvation mode and a stall. Not the usual goal for a low
carb dieter. The two week time scale of the usual T3 adjustment of
ketosis levels isn't enough for the longevity trigger.

That
reduces basal metabolism. Lower metabolism is associated with better
lonevity. In rats and mice anyways it looks like super low carb is the
macro-nutrient most responsible for the long life of underfed test
subjects. Might work in humans.


Super low calorie, leading to discussion of caloric restriction for
longevity. Low carb may be helpful, too, but very low consumption of
calories seems to be linked to longevity, too.


The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.

Going to 20 for life might well extend life as long as all of the
non-carb nutrients are handled correctly.
  #3  
Old December 9th, 2012, 06:58 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
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Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 11:18:56 -0500, Susan wrote:


Going to 20 for life might well extend life as long as all of the
non-carb nutrients are handled correctly.


Not if you go to 20 but over consume calories. That raises
triglycerides, too, for one thing.


Staying below 20 grams of carbs would drastically LOWER trigs.

It would also be nearly impossible (in my opinion) to then
"over-consume" calories (in a normally active individual) while
staying at 20 grams of carbs per day. Eating less carbs means eating
more fat and protein, which are very hard to "over-consume."

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #4  
Old December 9th, 2012, 07:04 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
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Posts: 540
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 01:59:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

[...]
The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.


It doesn't work with monkeys either.

Plus, low calory diets are also (usually) LOWER carb diets (by
definition).

Going to 20 for life might well extend life


If only via a reduction of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart attacks
strokes, and cancer, by reducing the risk markers for those diseases.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #5  
Old December 10th, 2012, 12:37 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Susan wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.


Because low carb induces the biochemical changes that come from
starvation, but not all the benefits if one eats in excess on LC, either.


Low carb induces the biochemical changes that come from a successful
predator diet. Calling it a starvation respondse does not make sense
given what low carbers actually eat. Which in addition tonot being in
excess is also not anywhere near starvation levels.

Going to 20 for life might well extend life as long as all of the
non-carb nutrients are handled correctly.


Not if you go to 20 but over consume calories. That raises
triglycerides, too, for one thing.


Calorie reduction life extension plans appear to leave their animal
subjects hungry 24/7 for their entire lives. An attempt to duplicate
most of the benefits in a human using low carb would mean not being
hungry and would automatically include not eating to excess.
  #6  
Old December 10th, 2012, 12:40 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Dogman wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.


It doesn't work with monkeys either.


I'm not sure what you mean here. Calorie reduction works for monkeys.
What I do not believe has been tried is changing the gram and calorie
counts in the food given to the monkey experimental subjects from
lowering all 3 macronutrients equally to lowering carbs dramatically
then only reducing fat and protein some.

Plus, low calory diets are also (usually) LOWER carb diets (by
definition).

Going to 20 for life might well extend life


If only via a reduction of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart attacks
strokes, and cancer, by reducing the risk markers for those diseases.


That too.
  #7  
Old December 10th, 2012, 01:26 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
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Posts: 540
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 23:40:32 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

Dogman wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.


It doesn't work with monkeys either.


I'm not sure what you mean here. Calorie reduction works for monkeys.


Calorie reduction doesn't work to extend life in monkeys.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/30/sc...pagewanted=all

What I do not believe has been tried is changing the gram and calorie
counts in the food given to the monkey experimental subjects from
lowering all 3 macronutrients equally to lowering carbs dramatically
then only reducing fat and protein some.

Plus, low calory diets are also (usually) LOWER carb diets (by
definition).

Going to 20 for life might well extend life


If only via a reduction of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart attacks
strokes, and cancer, by reducing the risk markers for those diseases.


That too.


It's enough for me!

And eliminating or drastically reducing the incidence of those
diseases would have a significant impact on average lifespans.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #8  
Old December 10th, 2012, 06:35 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
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Posts: 4
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Could anybody post a link or a citation for "Very low carb depresses thyroid T3"?

I'd like to read up on this
  #9  
Old December 10th, 2012, 04:53 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Dogman wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Dogman wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:


The original observation was with low calorie. Doing it low carb is the
refinement. It's been done to rats, worms, whatever. Not to humans.


It doesn't work with monkeys either.


I'm not sure what you mean here. Calorie reduction works for monkeys.


Calorie reduction doesn't work to extend life in monkeys.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/30/sc...pagewanted=all


Thanks. So we know that low carb is beneficial compared to at least the
Standard American Diet and likely to an assortment of other plan types,
but we also know that low carb does not increase life expectancy in
monkeys. So far we don't yet know if low carb increase life span in
monkeys but the initial results suggest it doesn't.

A few years ago Discover magazine had an issue dedicated to longevity.
Several of the articles suggested that low thyroid levels were one
aspect of longevity. Comparing the thyroid levels of humans against
many other species should show that - It's more than 10-to-1
dogs-to-humans. Years ago I've read studies that show that both very
low calorie and very low carb diets reduce T3 output. Probably a reason
or the reason so many who extend Induction who also don't have 80+
pounds to lose stall when doing so. And probably a reason that those
few Inuits who still live the traditional hunting lifestyle on the ice
don't continue to lose.

Discussing this with folks on sci.life-extension there were claims that
reducing a specific amino acid does more than reducing carbs. I haven't
dug into the studies or data on that so I don't know how it works.
Looks like low protein, mildly low carb, high fat might work for
longevity. That's not inconsistant with the weight loss versions of low
carbing but it's different enough to expect that the main thing we're
importing to such a process would be lack of hunger.

  #10  
Old December 10th, 2012, 05:28 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Susan wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Low carb induces the biochemical changes that come from a successful
predator diet.


Total non sequitir.


Says you. It's not my job to ensure you understand every statement.

It's true that ketosis from low carb is the sign of a successful
predator diet. Try checking the ketosis levels of a meat fed cat some
time. It's true that ketosis from fasting is the sign of starvation.
Try checking the ketosis levels of a fasting human some time. Which
better reflects what we actually eat? Which colors the perception in a
way that gets used against us?

Calling it a starvation respondse does not make sense
given what low carbers actually eat.


It's a standard buzzword sound-bite response that is used to dismiss the
benefits and validity of low carb eating.

You're way off base here; ketosis is an age old signal that the body is
burning it's stores,


Which is one of the goals when we low carb. A factor that has nothing
to do with eating so little we're starving. In fact it's in the design
of every well known low carb plan to ultilize this metabolic loophole to
burn stored fat without triggering starvation moded.

that's why metabolism rate adapts, to conserve them.


Stalls do in fact happen in a very large number of people who go too low
too long. In fact it's in the design of every well known low carb plan
to avoid such stalls.

Calorie reduction life extension plans appear to leave their animal
subjects hungry 24/7 for their entire lives. An attempt to duplicate
most of the benefits in a human using low carb would mean not being
hungry and would automatically include not eating to excess.


Non sequitir.


Says you. It's not my job to ensure you understand every statement.

It the longevity study on low calorie monkeys had worked I would have
said the next step was to do a low carb monkey study. Because low
carbing has us not hungry, so it might have monkeys not hungry and, so I
thought until the results of that study came out, have also resulted in
longevity benefits.

I'm not arguing in favor of life extension caloric restriction, I'm
saying that you can get the benefits of it with ketosis, but going low
carb is not enough; you also have to restrict calories to no more than
you will use. The excess raises mortality risks, like triglycerides,
for example.


Restricting low calorie to what you will use is called potion control.
While Dr A asserted that it happens automatically with every At-kid we
know he wasn't correct in that statement. Portion control becomes
possible for some, easy for many while low carbing. We do encounter
people who continue to over eat while low carbing. We call such people
ones who have not read the directions.

If you want to have a discussion, please limit your responses to what
I've actually stated, not some imaginary or straw man discussion.

And no ficts, just facts, please.


Back at you on that.
 




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