Maximizing life expectancy/enjoyment

Physicians do that. Then they treat prostate cancer with
anti-testosterone
drugs.

Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Note: I am NOT commenting on the masturbation the
topic; rather, I commenting on the alleged/oversimplified
relationship of testosterone to prostate cancer.

I'd be careful with this topic. While it is true
anti-testosterone drugs or castration are used tp
slow prostate cancer, the risk of prostate cancer
(PC) in uncastrated male is increased in those males
with a low testosterone to estrogen ratio. That is to
say some prostate cancers are a result of physicians
to refusing to treat this ratio thru ignorance or bias.

Prehen, R.T. "On the prevention and therapy of prostate
cancer by androgen administration."
Cancer Res. 1999; 59 (17): 4164-4164.

Testosterone helps maintain cellular differentiation
of prostate cells. Recall with time PC adapt
to the low androgen levels and their growth rate
will start to increase.

PC is also increased in dark skinned males with compromised
vitamin D status (if one can make a small leap in
logic). And of course if one looks at the animal
research, it blazingly clear that a moderately high
selenium status helps prevent PC.
And don't forget lycopene.........

The fact that castrated males don't get prostate
cancer proves little other than that
their prostates are either under-developed
or have undergone atrophy.

The book you need to read is "Anabolic therapy in
Modern Medicine" by William N. Taylor, M.D.
This isn't a popular press book rather it
written at the physician level. He has been
a researcher and author on this topic for
at least 20 years. This is an excellent book.

Beating the drum................
Playing the flute.................
And wishing that "Saint" Augustine's father
was castrated at birth..............................
...............William A. Noyes

And what drugs might those be? I suspect you don't know what
you're talking about.

Flutamide comes to mind as an antiandrogen. What else? Estrogens.
.............LHRH agonists, Ketocanzole...................


Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.

Neither do men with genetic 5alpha-reductase deficiency.

And Proscar is listed as an antiandrogen in my book:-)
It competitively inhibits 5-alpha reductase.

I fear you are making the same mistake that Doc Chung seems
to be making............a direct simple link of prostate cancer to
androgens.

Some theories, some truths, some facts..........
...........................................William A. Noyes

"William A. Noyes" wrote:


And what drugs might those be? I suspect you don't know what
you're talking about.

Flutamide comes to mind as an antiandrogen. What else? Estrogens.
............LHRH agonists, Ketocanzole...................


Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.

Neither do men with genetic 5alpha-reductase deficiency.

And Proscar is listed as an antiandrogen in my book:-)
It competitively inhibits 5-alpha reductase.

Chung said, "they treat prostate cancer with anti-testosterone
drugs."

Anti-androgen does not equal anti-testosterone, does it?
Reducing 5-alpha reductase activity reduces conversion to
DHT, thus increasing circulating T, right? That was my
point. You might also want to review recent studies that
indicate that finasteride, while good for BPH, may not be
good for prostate cancer.

I fear you are making the same mistake that Doc Chung seems
to be making............a direct simple link of prostate cancer to
androgens.

Some theories, some truths, some facts..........

The link between DHT in prostate tissues and BPH is
pretty strong. They are currently discovering that the
positive effect of DHT reduction on BPH doesn't
necessarily carry over to prostate cancer, and it may
even by counterproductive.

My point is that Chung's concept of reducing
testosterone to treat prostate cancer is a very
"old school" approach and may be contrary to
what the patient needs. It's not quite on the
level of stone-tool trepanation, but for him to
make such a statement backed by the "I'm a
physician" bit is good reason to tell him to stick
to cardiology and not dip into urology and
endocrinology.

DZ wrote:

DRS wrote:

DZ wrote in message


Ignoramus19432 wrote:

OftEntiMes sUCh people have eXtremELY vAgue idea ABOut just what god
is likE, to tHe point that THeir "bEliefs" CannOt lEAd to anY
praCTiCal cOnCluSionS anD cannot influence any deCisions.

Sometimes the fundamental question comes to "Why shouldn't I go ahead
and maul the neighbour".

God is the answer.

Something for which there is no evidence is no answer to anything. You
don't need to invent nonexistent anthropomorphic deities

Anthropomorphism is a "language" and only on the surface of religion.

Anthropomorphism is a "language..." What could that mean?
Anthropomorphism is attributing human characteristics to non-humans.
It is utterly central to religions. If god couldn't hear and see
people, there would be no point in the existence. If god didn't
exhibit human characteristics like mercy and compassion, there's no
point to the belief.

to build comprehensive ethical systems.

What makes you obey rules of such a system?

Intelligent self-interest. If we all adhere to an ethical system that
promises no undue harm, it's in our best interests to support it.
Given that there are bad people in the world, the system has to
include what to do with the ones who refuse to deal gently with the
rest. And it should be done ethically as well.

Pastorio

DZ wrote:

John HUDSON wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:15:34 GMT, DZ wrote:

Ignoramus19432 wrote:

OftEntiMes sUCh people have eXtremELY vAgue idea ABOut just what god
is likE, to tHe point that THeir "bEliefs" CannOt lEAd to anY
praCTiCal cOnCluSionS anD cannot influence any deCisions.

Sometimes the fundamental question comes to "Why shouldn't I go ahead
and maul the neighbour".

How about social isolation and resultant punishment?

God is the answer.

So my FUNDAMENTAL desire may result in punishment and isolation? NOT
good enough, John. What about the needed sense of comfort, integrity,
and lack of contradiction.

Not your fundamental desire, your specific actions. If you break the
social covenant, you are punished. If you uphold it, you are generally
rewarded with a more pleasant life free to seek your other desires.

Integrity and lack of contradiction? You find this in your religious
teachings? As long as there are honest people with opposing views and
needs, there can be neither. Integrity means oneness. Religion and
religious belief is based on desire for these things, but nowhere are
they externally delivered. We each choose that portion that pleases
us. The bible is replete with contradiction and mutually exclusive
conditions.

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/bibleanalysis.html

Pastorio

DZ wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Seth Breidbart wrote:
So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
his pulse when you measured it?

You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
you'll also have the answers to your questions.

Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Why are you fearful?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"John M. Williams" wrote:

DZ wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Seth Breidbart wrote:
So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
his pulse when you measured it?

You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
you'll also have the answers to your questions.

Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.

He does :-)

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:06:08 -0400, Bob Pastorio
wrote:

Anthropomorphism is a "language" and only on the surface of religion.

Anthropomorphism is a "language..." What could that mean?
Anthropomorphism is attributing human characteristics to non-humans.
It is utterly central to religions. If god couldn't hear and see
people, there would be no point in the existence. If god didn't
exhibit human characteristics like mercy and compassion, there's no
point to the belief.

But what is the term for the reverse phenomenon? Deomorphism?

Genesis starts off with God creating man in his image, not the other
way 'round.

to build comprehensive ethical systems.

What makes you obey rules of such a system?

Intelligent self-interest. If we all adhere to an ethical system that
promises no undue harm, it's in our best interests to support it.
Given that there are bad people in the world, the system has to
include what to do with the ones who refuse to deal gently with the
rest. And it should be done ethically as well.

There are no objective ethics, but if I had to choose a system to live
under, I'd go with Ayn Rand's.

Proton Soup

"John M. Williams" wrote:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:

"John M. Williams" wrote:

DZ wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Seth Breidbart wrote:
So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
his pulse when you measured it?

You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
you'll also have the answers to your questions.

Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.

He does :-)

Is he your dietician? Does he pass out two-pound servings of loaves
and fishes?

He remains my Lord and Savior :-)

Thank you for your interest.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:

"John M. Williams" wrote:

DZ wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Seth Breidbart wrote:
So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
his pulse when you measured it?

You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
you'll also have the answers to your questions.

Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.

He does :-)

Is he your dietician? Does he pass out two-pound servings of loaves
and fishes?