Study Details Link Between Obesity, Carbs and Esophageal Cancer

"Hollywood" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 9:35 am, Jim wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:56 am, Jim wrote:
Esophageal cancer rates in the U.S. closely mirrored trends of
increased carbohydrate intake and obesity from 1973-2001.
The headline is probably overstated.... there is a statistical
association here, not a cause and effect.

================================================== ===

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/p...m.asp?ref=1632

Hrm. Let's see if we can come up with a causative story. Just there
is correlation doesn't mean there ISN'T causation.

When I eat too many carbs, I, like many people, get vary degrees
of acid reflux. We might prove this one by looking at sales of
antacids and acid blockers against carb consumption, but from
my own experience (and the related clinical experience of Dr.
Atkins and the Eadeses), we're pretty sure about this. Carbs
cause acid reflux.

Stomach acid where it doesn't belong cannot be a good thing.
It hurts. But could it be doing damage, effectively diverting the
immune system from fighting newlyn tumors?

I'm not disagreeing about the headline probably being over
stated, but at the same time, it's pretty easy to see how it
might work.

Hollywood - I liked your comments. I'm not sure why a hypothesis has to
have any particular substantiation, but I do think yours has some. Perhaps
if you were expecting someone to pay you to do a study, then you're need to
provide that substantiation. In this forum just shared experience is
sufficient, IMO.


So, you elect to add an unsubstantiated hypothesis for "clarification"
purposes.

Different methodology at work, Jim. I forgot to add the usual thank
you
for the study. I always find them interesting. But, back to the matter
at hand. You like to look at the studies. I like to try and understand
the world. Understanding means putting forth hypotheses. They all
start unsubstantiated. Then they get tested and disproved. My
"unsubstantiated hypothesis" would be a useful avenue for further
study by these folks. So, they found a correlation. Next, look for
causation. Maybe you need to brush up on your scientific method
and your study design.

Did you read the actual abstract as published by the study authors?

I read what you posted.

Or did you manage to just read the PR Press Release issued by the
publishers nearly 60 days after the actual publication?

I read what you posted.

I enjoy your "mastermind" at work.

I'm glad you do.
Did you ever apologize to the other poster about the McDonald's dish
that you insisted wasn't there anymore?

WTF are you talking about? Link please.

I thought so.

And you are always right, so never have to apologize. To avoid
further confusion, you should probably change your posting name to
"Perfect Jim." For the love of God.

PS- Keep the studies coming. The interpretation too. I like you. No
sarcasm.

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:45:37 -0800 (PST), Hollywood
wrote:

On Feb 26, 8:24 pm, MoiMoi wrote:
In article ,
says...

"Marengo" wrote
wrote:

Esophageal cancer rates in the U.S. closely mirrored trends of increased
carbohydrate intake and obesity from 1973-2001.

The headline is probably overstated.... there is a statistical
association here, not a cause and effect.

I doubt at all that it's overstated.

I had chronic heartburn and severe acid reflux for most of my adult
life. I ate Rolaids like candy, then took Zantac once or twice a day
when it came out. I still had reflux, and would often wake up in the
night gagging on my own vomit, Within days after I started my low
carb way of eating, the heartburn disappeared. Within a few weeks,
the acid reflux had completely gone away. It's been probably two years
now since I had heartburn, and that was only when I went off my LC WOE
for a day or ate something carby that I shouldn't have. And there is
not question that acid reflux is the main cause of esophageal cancer.
No, I don't think the headline is overstated at all! I'm ore
surprised that someone hasn't pointed this out sooner.

I had a similar experience which was cured (or controlled) by LC. That
reflux will definitely mess you up.

Yep, my reflux gone within days of doing Atkins induction level, several
years ago.

MM

I'm going to add to that. Reading Marengo on it is like my story, if
he were
younger and less far along the path. Sub Tums with whatever Acid
Blocker
they come with in the big bottle, and that was my candy. On top of the
other
candy.

Me three. My drug of choice was Pepcid Complete. I used to panic if I
didn't have a package of them in my purse.

In addition to the heartburn and reflux, I also used to have fairly
frequent esophageal spasms. Anyone who has had one knows what they
are. Felt rather like what I imagine a heart attack would feel like. I
could get rid of the pain by taking a Pepcid Complete and sipping ice
water for 10 minutes or so.

Like everyone else, this was all history about a week after I started
low-carbing. The only time I have heartburn any more is when I eat
bread.

Jo Anne

Hollywood writes:

I'm going to add to that. Reading Marengo on it is like my story, if
he were younger and less far along the path. Sub Tums with whatever
Acid Blocker they come with in the big bottle, and that was my
candy. On top of the other candy.

I was partial to papaya enzyme tablets. Chew up 4-20 of those after
each meal, especially supper, and the acid stayed down.

The effect of low-carbing on acid reflux really is remarkable, like
turning off a switch. Times that I've gone off low-carb, that burning
sensation that starts back up after a day or two is the first thing that
tells me, "Hey, dumbass, what are you doing?"

It only hits me now (very mildly, compared to before) if I eat a lot of
tomato products, which is probably as much about pushing my carb limit
as it is about the acid. Black soybeans set it off too, along with a
bloated feeling that lasted about a week. No more soy for me.



--
Aaron -- 285/253/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Marengo wrote:

Within days after I started my low
carb way of eating, the heartburn disappeared. *Within a few weeks,
the acid reflux had completely gone away.

My indigestion turned off like a switch when I started low carbing.

It's been probably two years
now since I had heartburn, and that was only when I went off my LC WOE
for a day or ate something carby that I shouldn't have.

I can even turn it on with a meal that's low fat but grain-free. I
like India food styles and a trip to a local vegitarian place where
I can eat a grain-free meal of various veggies and legumes will
trigger heartburn. I figure if I switched from low carb to low fat
my system would adjust its digestive enzymes and this would
stop being a problem.

Do low fatters consistantly report their indigestion goes
completely away like flipping a switch the way low carbers
usually do? There is an occasional poster who reports digestive
issues in the first couple of weeks but I tend to think of that
like my experience with the occasional Indian vegitarian meal,
the body adjusts in a week or two. After beginning it seems
like every low carber who has any change at all to report says
their indigestion goes completely away.

In article ,
Doug Freyburger says...


My indigestion turned off like a switch when I started low carbing.

I'm GERD free as well since starting LC in August 2007. My wonder drug was
Prilosec OTC, with an occasional handful of antacids if I ate anything with
tomato sauce.

After LCing for a month or so, I experimented and stopped my daily Prilosec
dosage. No episodes of acid reflux whatsoever. 8^)

Part of the solution is my weight loss, as being overweight is one cause of
GERD. The other must be restricting carbs.

I had forgotten the agony of waking up 1-2 hours after going to sleep with that
burning sensation in my throat. Having to go downstairs and sleep in the
recliner wasn't any fun, either.

Mark
280/221/200

Marengo wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:56:12 -0600, Jim
wrote:

Esophageal cancer rates in the U.S. closely mirrored trends of increased carbohydrate intake and obesity from 1973-2001.

The headline is probably overstated.... there is a statistical
association here, not a cause and effect.

The study identified a statistical *correlation* between two variables,
but it did not *detail* the link as to mechanism. What is it about
carbs that does or doesn't do anything is omitted .... there are no
details. There is no mechanism (detailed or otherwise) described.

A *Correlation* is neither proof nor detail mechanism.

Here is from the actual paper abstract.....

=============== BEGIN QUOTES ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Study Details Link Between Obesity, Carbs and Esophageal Cancer
[Headline from the Press Release] which is challenged.

..... we evaluated the *correlation* between secular trends of dietary
macronutrient intakes and esophageal cancer rates.

METHODS: Linear regressions were performed to assess the *correlation*
between age-adjusted incidence rates of esophageal cancers and nutrients.

RESULTS: The increase in esophageal adenocarcinoma was found to be
strongly *correlated* with the rise in carbohydrate intake (P 0.0001).
The decline in squamous cell carcinoma rates was negatively *correlated*
with carbohydrate intake in the univariate model (P 0.0001), but
this correlation disappeared when adjusted for other nutrients.
Correlations of esophageal adenocarcinoma to percentage of calories from
corn syrup, representing refined carbohydrates, were statistically
significant in the univariate model (P 0.0001), but decreased in
significance in the multivariate model (P = 0.0118). We also found
a significant *correlation* between obesity and esophageal
adenocarcinoma (P 0.0001) during the same time period.

CONCLUSION: Our ecological evaluation *suggests* that high carbohydrate
intake and obesity can account for at *least* *some* of the rise in
esophageal adenocarcinoma. Within-population studies are needed to
*clarify* these *trends*.



(Am J Gastroenterol 2007;102:1-7)

=============== END QUOTE ==================================




I doubt at all that it's overstated.

I had chronic heartburn and severe acid reflux for most of my adult
life. I ate Rolaids like candy, then took Zantac once or twice a day
when it came out. I still had reflux, and would often wake up in the
night gagging on my own vomit, Within days after I started my low
carb way of eating, the heartburn disappeared. Within a few weeks,
the acid reflux had completely gone away. It's been probably two years
now since I had heartburn, and that was only when I went off my LC WOE
for a day or ate something carby that I shouldn't have. And there is
not question that acid reflux is the main cause of esophageal cancer.
No, I don't think the headline is overstated at all! I'm ore
surprised that someone hasn't pointed this out sooner.


Cleveland, Ohio – February 25, 2008 – Cases of esophageal cancer
(adenocarcinoma) in the U.S. have risen in recent decades from 300,000
cases in 1973 to 2.1 million in 2001 at age-adjusted rates. A new study
published in The American Journal of Gastroenterology shows that these
rates in the U.S. closely mirrored trends of increased carbohydrate
intake and obesity from 1973-2001.
---
Peter
270/227/180

On Mar 8, 3:26 pm, Jim wrote:
Marengo wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:56:12 -0600, Jim
wrote:

Esophageal cancer rates in the U.S. closely mirrored trends of increased carbohydrate intake and obesity from 1973-2001.

The headline is probably overstated.... there is a statistical
association here, not a cause and effect.

The study identified a statistical *correlation* between two variables,
but it did not *detail* the link as to mechanism. What is it about
carbs that does or doesn't do anything is omitted .... there are no
details. There is no mechanism (detailed or otherwise) described.

A *Correlation* is neither proof nor detail mechanism.

Here is from the actual paper abstract.....

Hiya Jim.

Still waiting.

On this though, the new business:
The STUDY talks about correlation.
The posters in the group (self and others) have noted,
through both anecdote and study cite, a possible explanation
of causation. Why it pains you that people do this, I have no
idea. Sure, keep your opinion on the study to the study. At
that level, you are limited to the scope of knowledge exhibited
by the study authors. Since the link between carbs and
reflux is well understood by other scientists (see Marengo's
links), it's not a flight of fancy of a pull out of the ass to
point that out. Since there is a correlative (and perhaps
causative) relationship between reflux and esophageal
cancer, what we have is:
A - B1 & B2 - C
Carbs (A) cause reflux (B1) and
obesity (B2). B1&2 are correlated and likely causative
with cancer (C).

You might not like this line of reasoning, but since no one
here is liable to publish, the burden of proof doesn't have to
meet academic standards.

I don't get why you get bent out of shape when someone tries
to explain a method behind correlation.

FWIW: I don't think esophageal tumors cause reflux and
obesity. Maybe baby tumors, but that'd be a tough mechanism
to explore. The other way is pretty well documented in theory
and in observation.