Hey, I'm losing weight on a low-carb diet again!

"Avatar" wrote in message
...
Plateau'd on the atkins diet a while ago, so have been restricting
calories. Started losing weight again--three lbs last week, three the
week before.

Also switched from using ground beef in the low-carb chili I eat each
day (ground meat, spices, beef broth) to ground turkey--less sat
fat--triglycerides are way too high.

Blood glucose, thanks to metaformin and januvia, down to 165 (from
350+).

So back to losing weight, but now I'm hungry all the time. Seems that
atkins alone doesn't make it long term (got very little ketosis)--my
endocrinologist says that "everyone plateaus."


Increase the fat in your diet, but reduce overall calories. Ground turkey
is not better than ground beef for hunger supression, or for weight loss
generally. Your body converts 50% of your protein intake to sugar. That's
why you're getting more hungry. Did you actually read the Atkins book, or
is your comprehension really that bad?

Plateau'd on the atkins diet a while ago, so have been restricting
calories. Started losing weight again--three lbs last week, three the
week before.

Also switched from using ground beef in the low-carb chili I eat each
day (ground meat, spices, beef broth) to ground turkey--less sat
fat--triglycerides are way too high.

Blood glucose, thanks to metaformin and januvia, down to 165 (from
350+).

So back to losing weight, but now I'm hungry all the time. Seems that
atkins alone doesn't make it long term (got very little ketosis)--my
endocrinologist says that "everyone plateaus."

How do you know "almost no ketosis"? Ketosis is like being pregnant, you
can be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. There is no way
to measure a "degree" of ketosis either. You can measure the concentration
of ketones in your urine but that depends on a lot of factors, like dilution
from drinking a lot of water and how much energy you are burning from
exercise. JC is an asshole but in this case he is right.

Viking wrote:
| I told you: almost no ketosis, hence no atkins-style fat burning.
|
|| Did you actually read the Atkins book, or
|| is your comprehension really that bad?
|
| Are you really a usenet asshole, or do you just like playing one?

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:53:16 GMT, "jcderkoeing"
wrote:

Increase the fat in your diet, but reduce overall calories. Ground turkey
is not better than ground beef for hunger supression, or for weight loss
generally. Your body converts 50% of your protein intake to sugar. That's
why you're getting more hungry.

I told you: almost no ketosis, hence no atkins-style fat burning.

Did you actually read the Atkins book, or
is your comprehension really that bad?

Are you really a usenet asshole, or do you just like playing one?

Viking wrote:
"jcderkoeing" wrote:

Increase the fat in your diet, but reduce overall calories. *Ground turkey
is not better than ground beef for hunger supression, or for weight loss
generally. *Your body converts 50% of your protein intake to sugar. *That's
why you're getting more hungry. *

jcdk demonstrates knowledge of the underlying biochemistry.
Not his usual style but accurate. For the same total calories,
more fat and less protein gives better loss without hunger. Cut
the fat without cutting protein and you increase hunger and
also trigger loss by an alternate mechanism.

I told you: almost no ketosis, hence no atkins-style fat burning.

Right. I checked your posting history and sure enough you're
someone who wants Atkins to be what you want it to be not
what it is so you ignore all advice that does not match your
tiny little out of context quotes from him.

Ketonuria is when *any* amount of ketones are seen in the
urine by using the sticks. "Almost no" means you did see
the sticks change color and you are therefore in ketosis and
buring fat. In particular ketonuria confirms ketosis and ketosis
is burning free fatty acids rapidly enough that the acetyl-CoA
pathway is not the only one in use so ketones are being
produced.

The sticks are like a pregnancy test - There's no meaningful
numercial value to them. They give positive (any color change)
or negative (no color change) results. The amount of color
change is only relevant to diabetics - Dark black is a sign of
ketoacidosis so darker isn't better.

Did you actually read the Atkins book, or
is your comprehension really that bad?

Are you really a usenet asshole, or do you just like playing one?

He really is, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

To summarize -

You've ignored previous advice because it isn't obvious. Then
you did something obvious and while you've been losing you've
also been hungry. When the non-obvious features of using low
carb to lose without hunger get pointed out to you you dismiss
that advice because you're not willing to hear it.

You stayed on the 14 day plan of Induction for 3 months in
spite of the fact that it wasn't working. You're having blood sugar
problems that take priority over any loss issue but you're working
the two issues in reverse order of priority.

Have fun with being hungry. Feel free to post again when you're
ready to stop doing what's obvious and start doing what's written
that happens to work better than anything obvious.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:17:30 -0400, "FOB"
wrote:

How do you know "almost no ketosis"? Ketosis is like being pregnant, you
can be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. There is no way
to measure a "degree" of ketosis either. You can measure the concentration
of ketones in your urine but that depends on a lot of factors, like dilution
from drinking a lot of water and how much energy you are burning from
exercise. JC is an asshole but in this case he is right.

Hm, well, when I started the atkins diet, I got a lot of ketosis
breath--none now, despite being at 20g max carbs (plus 40g fiber) a
day. And the ketosis strips say "Very little"--when I first started,
they said "Moderate".

I'm willing to try adding fat, but want to keep sat. fat low--anyone
have any suggestions? I guess that means vegetable fats, but I can't
just drink olive oil....

Viking wrote:

Hm, well, when I started the atkins diet, I got a lot of ketosis
breath--none now, despite being at 20g max carbs (plus 40g fiber) a
day. And the ketosis strips say "Very little"--when I first started,
they said "Moderate".

That is the standard sequence of events. The body starts out
with an overshoot doing more ketosis than it needs and the
keto-breath is strong. That's what Dr A called "shocking the
system" I suppose. That lasts about two weeks, conveniently
the length of standard Atkins Induction. Then the body does 1-2
weeks of overshoot in the opposite direction but less so. This
is the standard pause in weeks 3 and/or 4. Then the adjustment
settles in and the sticks are positive without being dark and the
keto-breath is just barely or not quite detectable. None of which
is any sign of anything out of the ordinary happening. It's
discussed occasionally on ASDLC and often on any board that
specializes in beginners.

Do not assume that events during during Induction point to any
sort of normal for the rest of the sequence. They do not. They
do not continue and are not to be expected. Just like the water
loss of Induction only happens once and gives more extreme
loss than any other time. But once you're out of stored carbs
and the water they get stored in there's no more water. And just
like the early darker stick results many folks want to think
Induction established a standard that continues.

I'm willing to try adding fat, but want to keep sat. fat low--anyone
have any suggestions?

The simple approach is to replace leaner cuts of meat for slightly
smaller portions of less lean meats for about the same total
calories. There isn't any need for any low carber to avoid saturated
fats so the simple approach is better because it's less work.

If you want to work at avoiding saturated fats just because, there's
no downside to doing so other than extra effort, though. One
delicious approach is to have a plate of olive oil or other oil on the
table. Put a little powdered dry herbs or cracked pepper on a plate,
drizzle oil, use as a flavoring. Then cook the meat in a way that
drains off much of the fat like Foreman grill or rottiserie. Dip each
bit of meat in the flavored oil before eating. This is much more
filling per amount of meat so expect to eat less meat and end
up roughly the same calorie count in the end.

I have been to Italian restaurants that do this with olive oil and
frsh cracked black pepper. Most folks dip bread rather than
meat. At home I've used walnut oil and tarragon or other herbs.

I guess that means vegetable fats, but I can't
just drink olive oil....

You can just drink olive oil if you want to try, but try it some time
and see what happens. I tried it once (50-50 olive oil and canola
oil). I figured my breakfast calories and how much oil it would take.
I tried having oil as my breakfast for a while. The first day, no
problem. The second day I sternly insisted I could do it. The
third day I could barely get any down by holding my own nose.
The fourth day holding my own nose didn't even help. Yup, fat
without any carbs is self limiting. The thing with dipping the bits
of meat works much better.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:46:35 -0700 (PDT), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

To summarize -

You've ignored previous advice because it isn't obvious. Then
you did something obvious and while you've been losing you've
also been hungry. When the non-obvious features of using low
carb to lose without hunger get pointed out to you you dismiss
that advice because you're not willing to hear it.

You stayed on the 14 day plan of Induction for 3 months in
spite of the fact that it wasn't working. You're having blood sugar
problems that take priority over any loss issue but you're working
the two issues in reverse order of priority.

Have fun with being hungry. Feel free to post again when you're
ready to stop doing what's obvious and start doing what's written
that happens to work better than anything obvious.

Why the insulting tone? Have I insulted you???

The only substantive advice that I recieved, over and over, was to add
more carbs to my diet. I'm sorry, but I can't see how that would help
if being very low carb doesn't work. I also was advised to add more
vegetables, and have tried that, to no avail.

Now got the advice to add more fat, fewer calories. I tried an atkins
"fat fast" TWICE months ago as he advocates to "kick start" one off a
plateau, but no increased weight loss, so am skeptical of this advice.

Look, I'm willing to entertain suggestions and be educated, and I'm
looking for solutions, but if you're going to be insulting, please
don't bother replying.

The ONLY thing that's worked is cutting calories in addition to being
low carb. My body appears to have adjusted to a low-carb diet and has
stopped any apparent ketosis, although I'm willing to consider that
ketosis can be "invsible" as people here say.

I need to lose weight due to diabetes and just cannot afford to futz
around with suggestions that are all over the place anymore. What
works for me, works, and at last I'm losing weight. I've tried a
number of suggestions from this ng, including having my thyroid
checked, which entailed costly tests, but to no avail. I'm sorry, but
this is not a game for me--already have a retinal hemorrhage due to
diabetes.

If you think you have worthwhile advice, please post it--and I'll
listen--rather than just telling me a dozen times that I've ignored
such. Ignored what advice?? If you don't have anything to say, just
drop it.

On Mar 17, 11:17 am, "FOB" wrote:
How do you know "almost no ketosis"? Ketosis is like being pregnant, you
can be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. There is no way
to measure a "degree" of ketosis either. You can measure the concentration
of ketones in your urine but that depends on a lot of factors, like dilution
from drinking a lot of water and how much energy you are burning from
exercise. JC is an asshole but in this case he is right.

You could test blood for it. I don't think there's a home kit, but
there
are blood tests for ketones.

I will concur on JC. At least the first part.

On Mar 17, 2:45 pm, Viking wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:17:30 -0400, "FOB"

wrote:
How do you know "almost no ketosis"? Ketosis is like being pregnant, you
can be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. There is no way
to measure a "degree" of ketosis either. You can measure the concentration
of ketones in your urine but that depends on a lot of factors, like dilution
from drinking a lot of water and how much energy you are burning from
exercise. JC is an asshole but in this case he is right.

Hm, well, when I started the atkins diet, I got a lot of ketosis
breath--none now, despite being at 20g max carbs (plus 40g fiber) a
day. And the ketosis strips say "Very little"--when I first started,
they said "Moderate".

I'm willing to try adding fat, but want to keep sat. fat low--anyone
have any suggestions? I guess that means vegetable fats, but I can't
just drink olive oil....
No idea why you would want to keep sat fat low. If your carbs are
low,
your Tri-G should fall. FWIW: Sat fat is 9 kcal/gram. Mono sat fat
(nearly
half of the fat in beef) is 9 kcal/gram. Polysat fat is 9 kcal/gram.
There is
no truth to the idea that sat fats are denser or heavier or more
caloric than
unsaturated fats.

I have an idea. Dump the 40g of fiber. Replace with a magnesium
supplement and some dietary fat. That will keep the food moving out
without any of the negative effects of fiber. If you're hungry, the
fiber isn't
helping keeping you sated (not surprising), it's not moving your
cholesterol (not surprising), so it's only for the poop. And it's
probably not
doing you any favors. So, reconsider.